Topic: Mirror PVP rules + VC's

[Dfly]

 

IMHO, if a DN is worth 3 to kill it should be worth 2 to chase off in an even-numbered engagement (or something similar).

why not make the DN worth more if it is chased off than it is worth dead?    the DN is supposed to be the ultimate ship of the shipyard, so it should never be afraid in an equal total ship battle. They(the team with the DN) would have the option of keeping their DN if they so choose to run, but would lose more points for that option of not fighting.  Afterall, the DNs are supposed to be the backbone and absolute muscle of a fleet. 

[FPF-DieHard]

why not make the DN worth more if it is chased off than it is worth dead?    the DN is supposed to be the ultimate ship of the shipyard, so it should never be afraid in an equal total ship battle. They(the team with the DN) would have the option of keeping their DN if they so choose to run, but would lose more points for that option of not fighting.  Afterall, the DNs are supposed to be the backbone and absolute muscle of a fleet. 

I thought about that, but it just doesn't make any sense to be worth more point chased off than killed.   

I think one point less than the kill value is reasonable, you'll still gain more points in the end be the disengagments as the DN can be chased off many times.   it can only be killed once (assuming some sort of OOB).

[Hexx]

Actually I think the PVP VC's I'm currently running with are a fair compromise.
I personally see hex flipping as equally unfair as PVP as generally people will find that
ship type x drafting ship type y will draw AI opposition z and allow misssions of 2:05 as opposed
to 2:30.
If people are going to get insanely competitive there's nothing I can do to stop them
Mirror will still (imho) allow anyone to fly a BCG, keep the primo PVP'ers out of the DNH/BCV's as they won't be able to
rack up kills for their side- hopefully this will allow someone not normally "permitted" to fly a DN on an OOB server to jump in one.
I'm also thinking about increasing the disengagament time from a hex if you run, or decrease it if you die.

It rewards the guys who like PVP , it doesn't punish people who don't -the map should be large enough there's somewhere else to go.
It *should* not represent the traditonal alliances, so hopefully people can ignore who wins as the teams will likely never be the same for another server.

[ShadowLord]

Ok starting to get lost -- well actually I am lost on Mirror Mirror

Can anyone give an estimated start up date?
Are the rules still under review and revision or finalized?
Guess the final point is when does the draft start.. (LOL err guess we need two leaders to step up or do we have them)

ShadowLord

[Hexx]

Well (my) estimated start date would be 2nd weekend in may
now-
1) DH seems to have sulked off left do to a moral stance he felt he couldn't ignore
He has said he'll do the techie stuff though.
(Personally Im expecting a " Dick hurtz" to jump me in mission and pots dumb screenies)
I don't know if there's a server available in that time frame, I have to find out who to ask etc etc

2) The rules are pretty much the latest PVP ones (ie 3 top players get VP)
-Disengagement will be 3x as long for running as for dying (likely 20 minutes/1hour)
-Still working on the map areas (trying to pass it off to J'inn- he's being uncooperative)
-One ship/pilot
-Nothing with more than 4 drone racks (and that might drop to 2)
-No escorts
-restricted (ie: 1) DN's on at a time (not assigned, no OOB)
-Fighters are out, PF's are non existant, it's whatver you can load onto your cruiser and throw at the other guy
-I'm trying to seriously mess up the YFA/YLA dates so I can fit the '63-'77 ships into a 7 year span.
Firsty Day/two will be CL/CA/CC then the + refits, then whatver comes next up to CLC/CB, days will likely be stretched so CB/CLC will appear early than 6/7 of the way through the server
-The CS will not be making an appearance (sorry all I still think it's close enough to CJ)
-I think fast drones would be amusing for the whole server,(especially with early ships) but I've still got a pile of PM's to go through so I don't need more
-I still need a leader for one side (which reminds me)

[KAT J'inn]

PSSTtttttttttttttttt!


Guys.  Over here.


Ol J'inn is setting up a "When does Hexx blow a fuse" pool.   <cough> I get 10% of the pot <cough> for Administrative costs.

I'm taking 4/27/05 PM.

<throws in $1.00>

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

May 1st at noon

<throws in 81 cents-1 cdn $>

[Hexx]

<twitches>
No, no really I'm fine.. just because I can get a PM saying "all the Feds want fighters in"
and  another saying "all the Feds want a server without fighters" and now half the Feds seem
to be "waiting to see how the rules shape up" while not actually giving me any idea is fine
No that's not foam.. I'm just drooling a bit.. yes, that nervous tic has always been there...
the PM's saying "hex flipping is boring, go with PVP VPs" and the "PVP VP's are the devils' work" are easily
combined into one coherent VP package... any day now I'll post it.. no no I always stare off into space mumbling
to myself...no, the fact that no one's going to show up for the server if I can actually get this up and running doens;t bother me..
oh sorry, am I gigling again? no no just remembering a funny Simpsons episode..really I'm not about to crack.. maps are fun
"early era" "late era" easy enough.. just have to run two maps side by side , no problem at all... I happen to like the drawings I'm doing on the walls thanks.. really the colours are very pretty..

[GDA-S'Cipio]

<twitches>
No, no really I'm fine.. just because I can get a PM saying "all the Feds want fighters in"

Bleah!  Turn off your ability to read PMs until the design process is done, or else I'm tossing in a dollar and taking tomorrow, before noon in the poll.

-S'Cipio

[Green]

Ol J'inn is setting up a "When does Hexx blow a fuse" pool.   <cough> I get 10% of the pot <cough> for Administrative costs.

I'm taking 4/27/05 PM.

<throws in $1.00>

Nah, he'll last longer.  He said the second weekend in May, so I'll go 11 May.  That should allow the test server some time to run ... and then the real serious PMs to be sent.

I'm thinking about giving odds on this one since it seems like such an easy bet. 

[FPF-Paladin]

Thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...

Drones/fighters:  Personally?  Really dislike the carrierfests of the past and wish something could be done with them similar to the new X-ships from the last campaign.  Drones... well, I don't rely on them personally and could do without them but I know there are others who feel different so I wouldn't ask for no drones.

PvP rules:  Hrm... interesting, except the part where it's the top 3?  How do you figure out the top 3?  If by reputation then I could probably closely guess who might be considered that skilled, but we're also now talking about fed vs fed ships, not the familiar ships some of these pilots use.  I'd like to see this expanded beyond 3 if it must be this way to include other players who normally wouldn't make such a short list.. exception being if -

Bounties:  Hell yeah, but not so much a bounty (ex double vcs or some such) that suddenly a bounty pilot feels like he can't take any risks whatsoever.  Been there, and although it was fun after a while I felt like I could only get back to having fun if I was killed (against orders and I'd never let that happen willingingly) or if I switched into non VC ships.  Just alter this idea a bit to make it a little less important, but still important for it to mean something.  Maybe make it mean you're considered a size class larger for VC purposes if you're in a VC ship (assuming some sort of OOB or specialty ship VC scoring) or make it so if you're in a non VC ship you count as a minor VC ship or specialty kill... something simple.

I'm not a hard fellow to get along with, so I'll probably show and try out whatever you come up with anyway Hexx   That's why I didn't say much prior to this.



PS:  And yes; I want that rematch but preferably when you're flying Lyran (or choice race instead of necessarily fed vs fed) 

[FPF-DieHard]

Really dislike the carrierfests of the past and wish something could be done with them similar to the new X-ships from the last campaign. 

By that do you mean Nerf them to a resonable level?   

Look for me on TS tonight, I've some ideas I can run by you.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Bounties:  Hell yeah, but not so much a bounty (ex double vcs or some such) that suddenly a bounty pilot feels like he can't take any risks whatsoever.  Been there, and although it was fun after a while I felt like I could only get back to having fun if I was killed (against orders and I'd never let that happen willingingly) or if I switched into non VC ships. 

In Ye Olde days, a bounty was a way to make a pilot in an important ship stay and fight, in addition to being a way to gain VC's.  If a pilot had a bounty on his head, he could not run from combat unless he was outnumbered by live pilots.

-S'Cipio

[KAT J'inn]

ARrrrrrrrrgfhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Just use the stock FS OP+ list.

One ship per player.

I like the Ace Based PvP VC points idea.

Make bases destroyable.

Disengagement rule . . . maybe.

That's it.



It's easy.

[el-Karnak]

Yeah well, YOU KNOW WHAT!!   

[Age]

  I am with Jinn on this.What is that?

[FPF-Wanderer]

ARrrrrrrrrgfhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Just use the stock FS OP+ list.

One ship per player.

I like the Ace Based PvP VC points idea.

Make bases destroyable.

Disengagement rule . . . maybe.

That's it.



It's easy.

Totally agree with J'inn on this.  Hell, let folks fly the escorts if they want.  C'mon, it's just Feds vs Feds.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Like everything pretty much but would like a more precise clarification on how the ace PvP thing would work as I see a few potential problems with it, but need it clarified more precisely before I can be sure if my concerns are valid.  So please nail down what you are specifically intending at this point Hexx, seeing a few to many "kinda  and  "sort of" comments. 

[Kzinbane]

Escort vs Escort could be pretty funny to watch, but Feds are "supposed" to beat their enemy with superior phasers, photon torp's and sturdier ships.  If no limit is put on drone racks you'll just see a bunch of quasi-Kzinti ships flying around doing 2 minute missions vs the AI and not much longer vs anyone that actually flies a more phaser and photon Fed type ship.

I say no more than 2 drone racks.  NO shuttles (mod the shiplist).  You wanna kill the enemy, go in and fight him.

[Pestalence_XC]

Escort vs Escort could be pretty funny to watch, but Feds are "supposed" to beat their enemy with superior phasers, photon torp's and sturdier ships. If no limit is put on drone racks you'll just see a bunch of quasi-Kzinti ships flying around doing 2 minute missions vs the AI and not much longer vs anyone that actually flies a more phaser and photon Fed type ship.

I say no more than 2 drone racks. NO shuttles (mod the shiplist). You wanna kill the enemy, go in and fight him.

I agree on limiting droners, and fighters as well.. no reason for the F18Cm.. it is pure cheese.. Stock fighters only if fighters are used, no more than 2 squadrons.. period... Drone ships restricted like the CAD and variants (Including other drone ships like NEC)..

4 Drone racks are enough, but keep shuttle in.. a surprise SP is alwyas good.. it limits drones, but yet allows the options for a suicide, marine, ww, and SP shuttles.. many Fed ships are limited to 4 shuttles anyways.. the BCG and BCF have 6 shuttles, but most players can easily eliminate a SP with a T- Bomb... as such most drone bearing ships don't pose much of a threat unless it is a pure drone ship.. a pure drone ship or a ship with more than 4 racks is a bit OTT for Feds IMHO, especially Fed vs Fed..

I say 4 racks as the F-BCG has 4 racks, probably one of the few Fed ships of larger hull types to cary that many racks.. now the NEC has 5 racks and should be restricted.. the PH G and 5 Drone racks is almost instant death on any other Fed ship in the game when doing an over-run with H&R on enemy tractors.. DN and BC Hull classes excluded.