Loading [MathJax]/extensions/TeX/AMSmath.js

Topic: Mirror PVP rules + VC's  (Read 9993 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« on: April 17, 2005, 04:06:28 pm »
OK -I'm sure I don't have to encourage this but please, feel free to tear these to pieces
Point out any exploits or why this simply won't work.
It's kinda  a "new" system (or maybe I just stole it from someone and don't remember..)

VC Points on the Mirror2 server are in one of two categories.
1) Base Placing
- This will (hopefully) appeal to the hex flippers and Non-PVP guys.
Basiacally the idea is that a hole has "been torn in the fabric of reality"TM
One side wants to fix and repair said hole, the other side wants to keep it open.
You gain VP's based on the size of base you place- 5 for a BS, 10 for a Bats, 20 for a SB.
(VP's only count for bases placed along one of the Nebula hexes representing the tear)
You may only place a base in a hex adjacent to one that you already have a base (of any type) in
You may not place a base within 2 hexes of an enemy base.
Bases will be destructable.

2) PVP
You are worth one VP once you have made a kill
You gain one vp for every pilot you kill that is worth a VP
If you are killed, you lose all VP's accumulated (the other side only gains 1 for your death)
and you will be worth zero VP's until you make another PVP kill.
PVP VC's will be counted after every X days, whereas the cycle will start again.

If you are flying a 3 ship fleet, your VP's are considered to be spread across the three ships as evenly as possible.
With any excess being carried by the command variant. If you lose one of the ships, you are considered to have lost
however many of your VP's it was carrying.

ex - DH has managed to kill 11 players without dying. He is now worth 11vp for his side. He flies a 3 ship DD squadron
For loss purposes his ships would be worth 4/4/3
and is caught by Kroma in a CB. Somehow Kroma manages to kill one of the DD's. (non command)
Dh would now have 7VP's for his side, 8 if he managed to kill Kroma in the mission after losing one of his ships.

The idea of the PVP player based VP's is something I hope will allow different people to fly the ships. Even if you're not any good in PVP
you aren't giving the enemy any points for your death.So hopefull it can be used as a PVP learning experience without the player
feeling he's costing his side points.
By contrast the only way the PVP killers will keep earning points is to keep throwing themselves into combat.

I'm thinking of a "No retreat" from PVP (unless agreed upon by all players present). This can be felt to represent *slightly* more powerful engines on the Terran ships and *slightly* better scanners on the Federation ships. A damaged ship will only be allowed to withdraw if his opponent decides to permit it. Multiplayer missions would be excempt from this as long as one player stays in the fight after everyone on his side has left. (Basically dying to provide his friends time to run)
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline deadmansix

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 504
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2005, 04:53:38 pm »

 OK if I read this correctly on side can only place a base next to a hex they have a base in, if that is the case there has been problems with placing bases next to bases something about if one side flipped the hex the next mission flipped it back to neutral or something like that its the reason we went to the 2 hex rule for base placing.

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2005, 05:00:12 pm »
AFAIK- and i could be wrong, there should be no "flipped" bases. With destrucatable bases they should go
away.
And in any event- with all the rules- it's the intent that Im looking for, base placement is about a 10 minute or so mission
Long as the base is good at the strat of the mission it's OK.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline deadmansix

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 504
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2005, 05:15:12 pm »

  ok just wanted to bring this to your att just trying to help

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2005, 05:26:25 pm »
NP, it's what I'm looking for

Anything at all that seems questionable/unworkable/or something open to an abuse
that I'm not seeing is what I'd like people to find.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline KBFLordKrueg

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3733
  • KBF CO
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2005, 05:42:12 pm »

 OK if I read this correctly on side can only place a base next to a hex they have a base in, if that is the case there has been problems with placing bases next to bases something about if one side flipped the hex the next mission flipped it back to neutral or something like that its the reason we went to the 2 hex rule for base placing.

I'm pretty sure you're correct on this, DeadMan.
Lord Krueg
KBF CO
We are the Dead

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2005, 06:40:08 pm »
Hmm
Well if it is an issue- and assuming I can't just make something work because I say so-
then you'll have to place a base every 2nd hex, as long as it's not within 2 of an enemy.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2005, 06:54:13 pm »
If you want to re-introduce flying up to fleets of 3, that's fine. Considering not everyone will want to do that, I would suggest dropping the idea of no retreat.
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline Mazeppa

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 271
  • (Ret.)
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2005, 07:14:06 pm »
.

I'm thinking of a "No retreat" from PVP (unless agreed upon by all players present). This can be felt to represent *slightly* more powerful engines on the Terran ships and *slightly* better scanners on the Federation ships. A damaged ship will only be allowed to withdraw if his opponent decides to permit it. Multiplayer missions would be excempt from this as long as one player stays in the fight after everyone on his side has left. (Basically dying to provide his friends time to run)


I'm really, really excited about this "no retreat" rule.  I am thinking that it may cause people to only try and fight in groups of three. 

Would you consider a "No Retreat" rule after:

1. The player fires any weapon
2. Three minutes have passed on the play clock.

This way, if a player sees a possible mismatch, he can flee the battlefield.  If he fires a weapon, he is committed.  If he remains in the hex

Presumably, it takes 30 seconds to fire a probe, even if your opponents run away to try and mask their ships, and I am thinking it would take you another two and a half minutes to head for the nearest border. 

If anyone else thinks this is a good idea, but thinks more time is needed to make a fight/flight decision, I'm cool with that
Mazeppa
Son of K'otv
A Retired But Proud Member of the Klingon Black Fleet

www.uschess.org
www.ochess.org
www.okschess.org

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2005, 07:54:02 pm »


I'm thinking of a "No retreat" from PVP (unless agreed upon by all players present). This can be felt to represent *slightly* more powerful engines on the Terran ships and *slightly* better scanners on the Federation ships. A damaged ship will only be allowed to withdraw if his opponent decides to permit it. Multiplayer missions would be excempt from this as long as one player stays in the fight after everyone on his side has left. (Basically dying to provide his friends time to run)


Is this just about the same idea I had posted earlier, using the no retreat rule for PVP?  If so, I am glad to see it.  May I suggest a system that I have seen used before in other styles of campaigns?  Let's say team A starts at the top of the map, and team B starts at the bottom(left and right can be used as well).  Team A comes in with a CB that is slightly damaged and low on supplies.  Team B has 2 pilots, each with a similar CB, fully ready.  When meeting each other, they must escape only from the oposite end of the map.  Therefore, Team A can escape, but must fly by team B.  Team B could also decide not to fight by attempting to get by team A.  Escape can ONLY be done by going off the far end of the map.  If a ship goes off any other side, by accident, intent or tractor, it is destroyed(consider it the rift).

To help pilots with this idea, as you say hail, check your map starting point(for this to work we may have to make all maps medium or small-again call it the rift effect), and state"WE MUST EXIT NORTH(if you start at bottom)" or some such.  The other team would reply with "WE MUST EXIT SOUTH(if they started at the top).  then you can both say "AGREED", and your on your way to really fun battles or runs.

Feel free to add to this, or tear it apart, but IMO I think this can work.

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2005, 08:00:01 pm »
This is all too complicated and overly competitive.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2005, 08:32:18 pm »
First I should point out the fleets of 3 is only a DD Squadron.
As I posted (err somewhere) before if 3xDD's are routinely able to smack CA's around then
it will drop to 3xFF's. If it's still to tough then they'll be dropped all together.

As I said- it's a work in process,
There won't be anymore conditons attached to the "no retreat" rule
I'm already getting close to making the rules too compicated, and I don't want anything even remotely able to turn into
a flamefest.
If the disengagement rule can be made workable and easy to undertand it's in.
Otherwise I'll strip it out.

The main goals for this server are
1) Try and get players to fly something new
2) See if a PVP VP system can be made to work *well enough*
3) Allow players not as skilled at PVP to fly ships they want without feeling they're risking VP's for their ships
-this system keeps track of the players, not the ships.
I've heard that someof our "newer" players still haven't had a chance to be able to fly a BCH
in PVP, or that they've been encouraged to stay away from the "hot hexes" so as to not cost their side anything
This completely eliminates that. Anyone can eventually fly a BCG
* Please note- already had PM's saying 'get rid of the PVP VP system"
I don't want to
Play the game have fun, if you get killed you cost your side exactly 1 VP.<-- and that's only if you've killed someone before.
 
I'm personally expecting to cost my side about 100 or so and I don't consider that that big a deal
This isn't a server with 10 or 20 VP's being a big deal. I'm anticipating having to count up hundreds.
Anything with VP system is going to get "overly competitive" if can't handle it.

 That being said -please keep the criticsm/suggestions coming.
If you really don't like the way something looking like it will work out, post it here.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Mazeppa

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 271
  • (Ret.)
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2005, 09:00:13 pm »
Well, let me give you a hypothetical.  Suppose I have a CB, and I draft, or get drafted by a three opposing players.  One is flying a CC, the others are in DD's.  Them's tough odds.  Are you saying I must remain in the hex and fight to the death?

If that is what you are saying, them's the berries, but I want to make sure.
Mazeppa
Son of K'otv
A Retired But Proud Member of the Klingon Black Fleet

www.uschess.org
www.ochess.org
www.okschess.org

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2005, 09:04:48 pm »
Grrr
It's actually been brought to my attention that the system technology we are forced to use
may not be capable of meeting the needs of my brilliantly conceived plans.

While I do like PVP VC's and no retreat,with the instability of the draft system
 I think I'm going to have to remove the no retreat idea.

Oh, and given that I'd have to actually come up with a list of what can be flown with what
I think I'm going to 1ship/pilot rule.
We'll try multi ship fleets for Lyran Civil War <snicker>
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline LordSaxon

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 148
  • Honor before Fear.....
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2005, 09:23:26 am »
I'm personally expecting to cost my side about 100 or so and I don't consider that that big a deal

Well according to your rules you would have to WIN 100 matches to be able to give up 100 VC's.....SO I don't think anyone should worry about you costing them the war !!

LordSaxon

P.S. I think new ways to score victory or defeat are worth trying, but your ideas here look to become a logistical, counting nightmare.

Offline Kzinbane

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 123
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2005, 02:51:04 pm »
I am not fond of complicated rules, but I have often thought that people aught to gain some advantage by choosing NOT to fly the classic killer ships which every race knows  about and has. Choose a standard Fed CA+ instead of a CAD and your victories are worth more or you otherwise gain something for your side.

In general now and just with ragards to proposals here - If the rules are all complicated and confusing I'm much less likely to play.  If P vs P is encouraged then simply have the two sides agree that they have a reasonably good match then they can go at it.  You'll still get arguements as to what a reasonably good match is but from what I've seen of D2 you will get arguements and ill feelings and flames no matter what.

A server following the standard of KISS sounds wonderful.  No Kroma, get your mind out of the gutter... it's KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!   ;)

Kzinbane

Offline Marikar

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2005, 03:20:09 pm »
How about getting 2vp per kill in a line ship and 1 in a special. and you will always get at least 1 vp for killing a special or oob ship. keep the c and x prefixes we normally use so people know what type of ship is what for vp's.

so the original rule was:-

2) PVP
You are worth one VP once you have made a kill
You gain one vp for every pilot you kill that is worth a VP
If you are killed, you lose all VP's accumulated (the other side only gains 1 for your death)
and you will be worth zero VP's until you make another PVP kill.
PVP VC's will be counted after every X days, whereas the cycle will start again.

If you are flying a 3 ship fleet, your VP's are considered to be spread across the three ships as evenly as possible.
With any excess being carried by the command variant. If you lose one of the ships, you are considered to have lost
however many of your VP's it was carrying.

ex - DH has managed to kill 11 players without dying. He is now worth 11vp for his side. He flies a 3 ship DD squadron
For loss purposes his ships would be worth 4/4/3
and is caught by Kroma in a CB. Somehow Kroma manages to kill one of the DD's. (non command)
Dh would now have 7VP's for his side, 8 if he managed to kill Kroma in the mission after losing one of his ships.


New Rule would be something like this.

2) PVP
You are worth one VP once you have made a kill
You are worth one extra point if you are in an oob or special ship (denoted with c or s as usual.)

If you are killed, you lose all VP's accumulated (the other side only gains 1 or 2 for your death depending on your ship)
and you will be worth zero VP's until you make another PVP kill or you fly a special or oob ship.
PVP VC's will be counted after every X days, whereas the cycle will start again.

If you are flying a 3 ship fleet, your VP's are considered to be spread across the three ships as evenly as possible.
With any excess being carried by the command variant. If you lose one of the ships, you are considered to have lost
however many of your VP's it was carrying.  It is always worth at least 1 VP.

ex - DH has managed to kill 11 players without dying. He is now worth 11vp for his side. He flies a 3 ship DD squadron
For loss purposes his ships would be worth 4/4/3
and is caught by Kroma in a CB (non oob or special ship). Somehow Kroma manages to kill one of the DD's. (not DH's command ship)
Dh would now have 7VP's for his side, 8 if he managed to kill Kroma in the mission after losing one of his ships.

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2005, 05:50:22 pm »
What about
- Experienced Captains (with at least one kill) are worth 1 VP
- The top 3 (or 5 if we actually have the numbers) Captains on each side
may not disengage if faced with an equal number of enemy ships.

It's a fairly simple count them up VP situation
It lets weaker PVP players some freedom to fight (if they want) without any real risk to their side
They can feel free to fight and fight (the only way to learn -insert comment about me here  :P )
It also makes the killer PVP players able to be tracked down and forced to fight.- as long as they're not outnumbered.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline KBF-Soth

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2005, 06:45:34 pm »
How about letting rank or prestige play a role. Bring the later ranks like Rear Adm +1vp Adm +2 vp and so on reflecting the losses of those high ranking officers on ability to govern the fleets and moral

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2005, 06:52:22 pm »
How about letting rank or prestige play a role. Bring the later ranks like Rear Adm +1vp Adm +2 vp and so on reflecting the losses of those high ranking officers on ability to govern the fleets and moral

I want kroma to feel safe running missions far from anyone
Don't need him getting antsy against the AI
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2005, 11:09:16 am »
How about letting rank or prestige play a role. Bring the later ranks like Rear Adm +1vp Adm +2 vp and so on reflecting the losses of those high ranking officers on ability to govern the fleets and moral

Actually, that's not a bad idea, and it wouldn't require anyone to keep up with any running totals.  You could just make the number of VP's that a kill is worth based upon the rank of the pilot.

Lieutenant:  0 VC's
Captain:  1 VC's
Commodore: 2 VC's
etc.

Then there would be little reason to kill the newbie/casaul player, as he isn't worth any points.  Sure, vets could continually start new accounts to avoid giving away VCs, but if you put the price of all cruisers beyond what it takes to earn captain and BCH's beyond the price of what it takes to earn commodore, then that should be minimized.

Perhaps add a rule that players can never disengage from a player with lower rank, unless outnumbered by live pilots.

-S'Cipio

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline benbean

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 140
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2005, 03:03:56 am »
How about letting rank or prestige play a role. Bring the later ranks like Rear Adm +1vp Adm +2 vp and so on reflecting the losses of those high ranking officers on ability to govern the fleets and moral

Actually, that's not a bad idea, and it wouldn't require anyone to keep up with any running totals.  You could just make the number of VP's that a kill is worth based upon the rank of the pilot.

Lieutenant:  0 VC's
Captain:  1 VC's
Commodore: 2 VC's
etc.

Then there would be little reason to kill the newbie/casaul player, as he isn't worth any points.  Sure, vets could continually start new accounts to avoid giving away VCs, but if you put the price of all cruisers beyond what it takes to earn captain and BCH's beyond the price of what it takes to earn commodore, then that should be minimized.

Perhaps add a rule that players can never disengage from a player with lower rank, unless outnumbered by live pilots.

-S'Cipio



I like this idea.
ben.

Offline Corbomite

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2939
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2005, 08:02:17 am »
I have no wish to face three live players with nine ships between them. Between the lag and other connection issues I don't think it can handle it. I mean you are asking a system that can't even hold 6 live players most times to try and have up to 18 player controlled ships try to be drafted.


I think there is a simple way to make PvP worthwhile and make it easy on the admins too: Challenges.

Except for the Disengagement Rule (this helps control the map for the strategic players), all non solicited PvP will be penalty free. If you want to get personal VC's for your side, you must challenge an opposing player to combat. You may only score points by being the challenger and winning.

The challenged does not lose points for their side if they lose or gain points if they win. The challenged may decline without penalty, but once challenged he/she may choose the hex of the fight and the odds. The hex must be one either side can easily access.

The odds are what player set up you use, i.e. 1v1, 2v2, 2v1, 3v1, 3v2. This is the edge that he/she feels they need to take on the challenger. The  payout depends on the set up: 1 point for even odds, 1.5 for 3v2, 2 for 2v1 and 3 for 3v1.

Once the challenger sees the odds offered he/she may widthdraw the challenge at that point without penalty. If the challenge is agreed upon, met and won the challenger gets the appropriate points.

Fights may be to the death or until driven off, that is the purview of the players involved and must be agreed upon before hand. Points won remain the same.

Any disputes over outcomes will be handled civilly or no points will be awarded by purview of the Admins of the server.

If good faith is shown, but the matches are not happening due to connection issues or bugs in the missions, either party may widthdraw or ask for renegotiation without penalty. I would suggest three good trys before giving up.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 08:37:35 am by Corbomite »

Offline Soreyes

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3903
  • Gender: Male
  • It's Not News. It's CNN
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2005, 08:11:30 am »
I have no wish to face three live players with nine ships between them. Between the lag and other connection issues I don't think it can handle it. I mean you are asking a system that can't even hold 6 live players most times to try and have up to 18 player controled ships try to be drafted.



What He said.  Maybe I'll just revert back to Dial up and win all my battles by defalt ???


[img width=600 height=150]

Offline Green

  • I'm not a
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2005, 11:32:03 am »
How about letting rank or prestige play a role. Bring the later ranks like Rear Adm +1vp Adm +2 vp and so on reflecting the losses of those high ranking officers on ability to govern the fleets and moral

Actually, that's not a bad idea, and it wouldn't require anyone to keep up with any running totals.  You could just make the number of VP's that a kill is worth based upon the rank of the pilot.

Lieutenant:  0 VC's
Captain:  1 VC's
Commodore: 2 VC's
etc.

Then there would be little reason to kill the newbie/casaul player, as he isn't worth any points.  Sure, vets could continually start new accounts to avoid giving away VCs, but if you put the price of all cruisers beyond what it takes to earn captain and BCH's beyond the price of what it takes to earn commodore, then that should be minimized.

Perhaps add a rule that players can never disengage from a player with lower rank, unless outnumbered by live pilots.

-S'Cipio

The simplicty of the rank rule is a definate plus.  (But I must admit Corbo's "odds game" sounds pretty cool.)

el-Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2005, 01:06:45 pm »
.

I'm thinking of a "No retreat" from PVP (unless agreed upon by all players present). This can be felt to represent *slightly* more powerful engines on the Terran ships and *slightly* better scanners on the Federation ships. A damaged ship will only be allowed to withdraw if his opponent decides to permit it. Multiplayer missions would be excempt from this as long as one player stays in the fight after everyone on his side has left. (Basically dying to provide his friends time to run)


I'm really, really excited about this "no retreat" rule.  I am thinking that it may cause people to only try and fight in groups of three. 

Would you consider a "No Retreat" rule after:

1. The player fires any weapon
2. Three minutes have passed on the play clock.

This way, if a player sees a possible mismatch, he can flee the battlefield.  If he fires a weapon, he is committed.  If he remains in the hex

Presumably, it takes 30 seconds to fire a probe, even if your opponents run away to try and mask their ships, and I am thinking it would take you another two and a half minutes to head for the nearest border. 

If anyone else thinks this is a good idea, but thinks more time is needed to make a fight/flight decision, I'm cool with that

In general, I avoid any dynas that have PvP VCs and a mission pack that is not stable enough to support good 3v3 PvP play and/or does not have AI stripping. Now if you put in no retreat rules for PvP, the mission packs becomes even more important. Under no retreat rules regime, you can't have players dropping and quickly having a potential 3v3 situation turn into a 3 on 1 or a 2v2 situation into a 2 on 1 due to player drops.  Plus, I would not want any AI in there causing the odds to be unbalanced.

That being said, I do like this idea a lot for any dyna:

Would you consider a "No Retreat" rule after:

2. Three minutes have passed on the play clock.


This rule would make the Taco Bellers go taco bell post-haste.

Offline Corbomite

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2939
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2005, 02:40:31 pm »
The simplicty of the rank rule is a definate plus.  (But I must admit Corbo's "odds game" sounds pretty cool.)


I tend to agrree about the simplicity thing. I just wanted to be sure anyone could challenge or be challenged and not have to worry about ship size/class problems. A dred could challenge a BCH and the BCH pilot could say "OK, but I want a 2v1 with my friend the drone boat winging with me".

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2005, 03:56:57 pm »
WTF does rank have to do with PvP prowess?   might as well use shoe size for your descripter.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2005, 04:10:09 pm »
as well as dodging the rank with multiple accounts...
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2005, 04:14:34 pm »
Wow
Lots of posts to read through
to clarify

-I've (albeit reluctantly) decided against the "no retreat" rule- although I do like
the concept of not being able to leave after 3 minutes.

-It will be one pilot/ship. ATM I'm trying to get (imho) too much ready to also have to
go through the list and figure out what can fly with what.
There will stil be areas where only CL's and smaller can traverse

-I still think I'll leave it at 1 VP/pilot kill. The only other VP's I have at the moment come from base placing
(to be clarified later) I do not want hex flipping VC's (although the base placing is close I admit) Other things will
come from controlling planets etc.
The 1VP may (I admit) simply be me trying to dig my heels in about something. I want a system where PVP means something
 but it means little enough that if you get killed it won't effect the outome, placing a Basestation (atm) is worth about 10VP
so placing one station will let you get killed 9 times and still gain a vp for your side.

Kills by DN pilots will still not count for VP purposes, although I am (for some unfathomable reason) considering expanding the time you're banned from a hex if chased off by a DN. Really I'd like to see DN's move into a more "strategic" asset, rather than putting your sides best PVP player in one and drafting him over and over again.

Again keep the comments & criticisms coming!
None of this is written in stone yet..


Oh- and only 1 account per/player will be permitted .
Creating a second account wil have some nasty, severe penalty attached to it.
Not sure what yet, open to suggestions though.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2005, 05:32:27 pm »
Hmm
What about ..
If you kill someone while flying a CL(or smaller) you get 3VP
                                             CA                            2vp
                                             BCH                           1VP
                                             DN                             0VP

Target size doesn't matter (Im already having alot to count)
This would award players for flying the smaller (somewhat less cheesy ) ships
Act as a bit of  balance for newer players (who could get the bigger ships)
And punish DH when he claims " I have to fly the DNH.. I really don't want to.."

-Probelm is (I admit) I prefer the CLC so I may be biased..
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Marikar

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 59
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2005, 05:53:30 pm »
I like the idea of doing something to reward those players in smaller ships.  I do not want to see a game in which everyone is flying a BC or DN with the biggest cheese factor thay can afford.  Unless you want to make the penelty for losing a ship harsh pp wise. (not something I would like to see either.)

Also how are you going to keep track of what vc's who has?  The posting thread would be sensative to the time someone reports a kill.

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2005, 06:00:48 pm »
It would simply be a kill thread of
"Hexx's CLC killed Kroma's DNH"
type statements. Since hte defeated ship size dosn't matter only the ship you
were flying at the time of the kill counts.
All you need is to have a thread where only the pilots who make the kill post.
SGO4 (for example) - great for community spirit when the defeated players mad e a post, but really confused
the ship count.

I'm also thinking of maybe having like 3PVP kills equal 1 VP (or similar ratioe)
That would reduce the value/kill even further than the 1VP that seems to be a concern now.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2005, 06:28:53 pm »
Hmm
What about ..
If you kill someone while flying a CL(or smaller) you get 3VP
                                             CA                            2vp
                                             BCH                           1VP
                                             DN                             0VP

Target size doesn't matter (Im already having alot to count)
This would award players for flying the smaller (somewhat less cheesy ) ships
Act as a bit of  balance for newer players (who could get the bigger ships)
And punish DH when he claims " I have to fly the DNH.. I really don't want to.."

-Probelm is (I admit) I prefer the CLC so I may be biased..

I like this idea, it gives the smaller ship more status, especially in a kill.  If you put this ruling in along with the 3 minute MUST BE OUT OF HEX or FIGHT TO THE DEATH rule, it would make it very interesting to see who would stay and who would leave.  This would give you time to get out, or decide to fight.

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2005, 06:50:38 pm »
3 minute MUST BE OUT OF HEX or FIGHT TO THE DEATH rule,

The maps in the ED missions are smaller than the Free for All medium Map

Such a rule on a map that small is stupid as it is too easy in a 2v2 to trap people in a corner (1v1 is fine).

Get some scripts with larger maps and this makes a little more sense, with the current available missions it is retarted.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2005, 07:07:02 pm »
3 minute MUST BE OUT OF HEX or FIGHT TO THE DEATH rule,

The maps in the ED missions are smaller than the Free for All medium Map

Such a rule on a map that small is stupid as it is too easy in a 2v2 to trap people in a corner (1v1 is fine).

Get some scripts with larger maps and this makes a little more sense, with the current available missions it is retarted.

Well perhaps if you quit snivelling and wrote some new missions we'd have a solution..
Currently Im thinking any disengagement rule would only apply to 1 on 1's anyway.. too many things can go wrong in 2 v 2 , plus
a side not on voicecoms would be disadvataged etc.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline KBFLordKrueg

  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3733
  • KBF CO
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2005, 07:18:53 pm »
Hmm
What about ..
If you kill someone while flying a CL(or smaller) you get 3VP
                                             CA                            2vp
                                             BCH                           1VP
                                             DN                             0VP

Target size doesn't matter (Im already having alot to count)
This would award players for flying the smaller (somewhat less cheesy ) ships
Act as a bit of  balance for newer players (who could get the bigger ships)
And punish DH when he claims " I have to fly the DNH.. I really don't want to.."

-Probelm is (I admit) I prefer the CLC so I may be biased..

I like this idea, it gives the smaller ship more status, especially in a kill.  If you put this ruling in along with the 3 minute MUST BE OUT OF HEX or FIGHT TO THE DEATH rule, it would make it very interesting to see who would stay and who would leave.  This would give you time to get out, or decide to fight.

I could see a problem in a situation with, for instance, Plasma vs Plasma.
Lord Krueg
KBF CO
We are the Dead

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2005, 07:21:55 pm »
Well.
Since only a complete weenie would fly a Fed plasma ship
this wouldn't really be an issue for the moment
We can see how it works and have it modified as necessary for othe servers.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Green

  • I'm not a
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2005, 08:21:45 pm »
It would simply be a kill thread of
"Hexx's CLC killed Kroma's DNH"
type statements. Since hte defeated ship size dosn't matter only the ship you
were flying at the time of the kill counts.
All you need is to have a thread where only the pilots who make the kill post.
SGO4 (for example) - great for community spirit when the defeated players mad e a post, but really confused
the ship count.

I'm also thinking of maybe having like 3PVP kills equal 1 VP (or similar ratioe)
That would reduce the value/kill even further than the 1VP that seems to be a concern now.

Don't see anything necessarily wrong with the idea.  But not all ships in a class are the same.  I do not know the fed ships well since I rarely fly them, but my guess is the HDWs fly more along the lines of a CA- ???  What about ships w/ fighters (if there are any)?

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2005, 09:17:35 pm »
"The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."   :banghead:
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2005, 09:33:09 pm »
"The more you overthink the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."   :banghead:

Agreed, this is getting over-complicated and ridiculous.

Stop being a Dizzy
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 26163
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2005, 10:23:55 pm »
Ah yes keep it up with so many rules and we can call it Mirror Fizbin   ::)

It really has gone too far when S'Cipio is supporting something simplier.  I mean I grew up playing SFB with him and I've never seen a more tenacious rules lawyer ever.  I nearly fainted when I saw him siding with simplicity.

Offline GDA-Agave

  • That's MR. Planet Battering Ram to you buddy!!
  • Hot and Spicy
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 713
  • Gender: Male
  • Fear my tequila breath!!!
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2005, 10:57:27 pm »
Ok.   Here's my read on all the ideas so far.

Disengagement Rule Ideas

(1) I like the 3 minute/weapons fired no disengagement rule.   This would make pilots assess the situation quickly and eliminate the delaying mission tactic that is being used. (i.e.  hey George, keep his DN in mission while we run up this hex crap).   Normal disengage time penalties would still need to apply for strategic hex flipping reasons.

Diehard, your point about map sizes being used in missions is absurd.    How much room do you really need to use a run and gun tactic?     Your missing the main point there.  If you decide to stay and fight, then do so.   Adjust your tactics to the map size being used and do your thing.

(2) Dfly, your opposite side only disengagement is interesting, but I think ultimately it would just create flaming opportunites about if such and such pilot actually disengaged on the right side.    Very interesting idea though but let's use KISS thoery whenever we can.


PvP VC Point System

(1)  Ship class VC system.   Use the hull class to determine the PVP VCs gained in a live pilot kill.    Yes, I realized that this will force the admins to separate all the ships used into the different hull classes, but at least the work will be done all up front and not during the server.   IMHO certain speciality ships should be classified as one hull size larger to represent that they are highly prized kills to prevent your enemy from having that drone hex flipper, nasty heavy destroyer, etc., etc.,

                1     DD/FF hull class
                2     CL   (includes DD hull specialilty ships)
                3     CA   (includes CL speciality ships)
                4     BCH  (includes CA specialites, fast cruisers, etc.)
                5     DN   (including CA hull full carriers)

Now, I realize that the idea of what ships are considered speciality ships varies from pilot to pilot.  Admins, you can put the list open to discussion, but I think you will just have to ultimately decide yourselves where you want all the certain ships to be.   ;D

The PVP VC point system based on this would be 1VC for an equal hull size kill, 2 VCs for killing the next hull class(CL killing CA), 4 VC pts for killing a ship 2 hull sizes bigger, and 8 VC pts for killing a ship 3 hull sizes bigger.   Easy to adjust pre-server by what the admins want.

For multiple pilot battles, you could always just say well 2xCAs killed a single DN pilot, 2 VCs total for the smaller ships killing the larger one just based on the difference.   This certainly would stick with the KISS theory, but might be very unpopular.   On computing VCs for non 1v1 PVP matches, I'm unsure how to proceed without adding complexity to it.

At least the end result would be here that the admins could see the kill post saying Fred's CLC killed George's BCH and know how to score the VC easily.   The pilots would only have to make sure they had the correct ships listed.

(2) Corbomite, your idea of challenges is good, but don't you always have the opportunity to call out your opponents.   The hull class system above would incorporate any kills made by challenge.

(3) PVP VCs by rank.   NO.  I got to agree with DH here.   Just because someone might be a nutter with tons of Prestige pts, doesn't make them a better PVP pilot and worth more VC points.   (take me for example  ;D  )

(4) More VC points for number of kills.  An interesting idea Hexx, but one that certainly seems like a nightmare to keep up with.   You would have timing issues with when kills were posted in the forums, counting errors.    Hell, I'm an accountant and this idea seems very evil to me.   Sorry.

(5)  My idea to add.    BOUNTIES!!  I have always liked being able to place bounties on my fellow pilots flying for the enemy.   If someone is being a pain in the butt, then stick a bounty on him worth 5 VCs so that everyone is out looking for him.   I have been very entertained by some of the reasons why certain pilots are always getting bounties place on them!! ( :o  me included)   This adds some fun spice IMHO.   I would suggest making the bounty period only 2 or 3 days, not a week.    You could make the bounty VC only count for the initial kill of that pilot, or give the bounty VC bonus TO EACH AND EVERY PILOT who killed them during their bountied period.   HOW ABOUT SOME BOUNTIES!!



Agave

One of the few, the proud, THE GORN!!
Gorn Dragon Alliance - Protecting Ghdar and the Bruce Way!

Gorn Dragon Templar
"Protecting the roads to Brucedom for all travelers of faith"



Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2005, 01:39:57 am »
WTF does rank have to do with PvP prowess?   might as well use shoe size for your descripter.

Not a thing.  Nor was my suggestion intended to assume that it would.  It was intended to give more VCs for killing those who are spending more time working against your empire, and to assure that the newer/more casual players had a chance to get their feet wet before others went gunning for them, avoiding your complaint that VCs for every kill penalized newbies.


I don't think pilot quality should be determinate for VCs.  First off, how do you measure such a thing objectively?  And second, the object for everyone should be to get better.  If your VCs get adjusted based upon how "good" you are, then what point in getting "better" than your opponent so you can beat him?

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Kzinbane

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 123
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2005, 03:59:12 am »
I must say I like the idea of some sort of incentive for people to fly a variety rather than as has been said: Buy the biggest baddest cheese machine they can afford".  I mean that's why the dread and BB restrictions are there.  In every server I've seen though with the restritions the heavy BC's or big CV"s just "become" the dreads and battleships of that server and everyone rushes to get the PP to buy one because that's what they'll likely be facing in P vs P.
I do tend to lean toward some restriction on escorts, carriers and drone ships.  I mean we're doing FED mirror not Mirak - so the trend of people to get into missile boats and play ersatz Mirak aught to be discouraged at least.  This should be phasers, photons and boarding parties fighting it out not sissy ass Mirak drones  :P.
As for the FF or DD zones (or whatever) why not use asteroid fields?  Just make a big "fence" of asteroid hexes around an area.  Nothing larger than a DD can go through, or no thing larger than a DD (or whatever) may fight in an asteroid hex - something like that?

Mirror 2 sounds like fun any way it goes.  If I win a Fed dies.  If I loose a fed dies.  I do like the sound of that!  Burger king Vs McDonnalds!!!

Kzinbane

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2005, 05:31:07 am »
Actually the "CL" and smaller designate zones are Nebs
-The Big CV's are out,as is anything with more then 4 droneracks and escorts
I'm now thinking, waht with the snivelling of all of you that "it's too complicated"
(like DH can work with any concept involving numbers other than an hourly charge)
that
-the top 5/10 PVP kill pilots on the server will gain VP's.

I was also going to split the draft/ random assignment into 2 groups, consisting of hex flippers and the PVP
guys, but if J'inn has some other way that doesn't involve him profiting I'm all for it..
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline ShadowLord

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 547
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2005, 08:15:31 am »
Very interesting concepts being posted..  hope to hear what the final rules will be soon.
Is there an anticipated start up date for this server yet?
and I guess the final question is -- are you doing it via draft?

ShadowLord

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2005, 08:23:34 am »
K.I.S.S.  Keep It Simple S_______ (you fill in the blank ;)  )
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2005, 08:58:00 am »
TOO MANY RULES!!!!   Learn SOMETHING from our mistakes.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2005, 11:17:21 am »
TOO MANY RULES!!!!   Learn SOMETHING from our mistakes.
<snicker> afaic your biggest mistake was telling me you'd run this as long as I took care of the shiplist  :P



Sides I really (atm) like the idea of the top 5 PVP killers splitting up some VC's
it amuses me for some reason.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #50 on: April 23, 2005, 01:12:43 pm »
that 3 minute get out or die rule i proposed does not have to be 3 minutes.  I only used the 3 minutes for the biggest map.  I actually would rather suggest a 1 minute or  2 minute, and like someone suggested, if you fire, you stay.... so here would be my re-suggestion:

"At the start of any PvP mission, you have a maximum of 2 minutes to leave the hex.  If you fire weapons of any sort other than a probe for information, you are bound to the fight and may not disengage.  If you have not disengaged by the 2 minute time, you are bound to the fight and may not disengage."

This way, in a 2v1, the 1 has time to assess his situation and get out if warranted(so do the 2 if deemed appropriate).  In a 2v2 or 1v1, same thing.

Would this be more acceptable?

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #51 on: April 23, 2005, 01:15:04 pm »
No, I'll not play on a server with such a rule.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #52 on: April 23, 2005, 01:22:16 pm »
I really was looking forward to some fed vs. fed fun, but I'm figuring based on the way it's shaping up that I'll be taking a little time off.
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #53 on: April 23, 2005, 01:33:00 pm »
I really was looking forward to some fed vs. fed fun, but I'm figuring based on the way it's shaping up that I'll be taking a little time off.

then post some suggestions as to how you feel it could be improved.

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #54 on: April 23, 2005, 01:40:34 pm »
I really was looking forward to some fed vs. fed fun, but I'm figuring based on the way it's shaping up that I'll be taking a little time off.

then post some suggestions as to how you feel it could be improved.

Below are my suggested PvP VC rules . . .
































Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Green

  • I'm not a
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #55 on: April 23, 2005, 02:21:32 pm »
(3)Just because someone might be a nutter with tons of Prestige pts, doesn't make them a better PVP pilot and worth more VC points.   (take me for example  ;D  )
I thought he did ... thus why I believe it is a good idea :D



But overall ... the rules are getting more convoluted then the code that is used in the software ;)  You sure you don't want to reign them in Hexx?  I'll play, no matter what you decide.  But simplicity does have it's virtues.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2005, 02:39:15 pm »
I really was looking forward to some fed vs. fed fun, but I'm figuring based on the way it's shaping up that I'll be taking a little time off.

then post some suggestions as to how you feel it could be improved.
 

Actually I have if you want to chase them down and I have also sent out a handful of PMs.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 07:01:46 pm by FPF-TobinDax »
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2005, 06:14:41 pm »
NP Tobin, just never like to see anyone in this community not feel like they want to fly is all.

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #58 on: April 23, 2005, 07:26:41 pm »
Although I must admit I'm *somewhat* dissapointed with the number of PM's received claiming how
PVP VC's will ruin hte game -realy I think alot of people just use the words" I really don't care if we win or lose"
I have actually decided it's because all of you fear me in PVP.

So that's OK.

Current PVP rules are as follows.

VP's awarded for top 5 pilots on the server.
Only 1v1 (or 1v2,1v3) missions count.
No mission where you have a wingman (even if they don't fire) counts towards your total.
No Mission where you are in a DN will count. (killing a DN with a lesser ship does count)
(killing DH in a DN counts bigtime)
VP total is yet to be determined, but will be based so that having the 2 and 3 best pilots will be
equal to/slightly better than having the top pilot. Having 1 and 4 will of course be better than 2 & 3.

Disengagment Rule

Only no disengagement rule will apply to defenders when protecting a base or planet.
-They will not be permitted to leave the map until the base is destroyed/planet is capped.
There will likely be a VP penalty attached to leaving after the base is destroyed/planet capped.

This (very simple rule, even if you are a product of the NJ public school system) demonstrates that
A) You can really only pin someone against something they have to defend.
B) Even if masslvely outgunned, you're still expected to "do something"
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #59 on: April 23, 2005, 10:57:44 pm »


This (very simple rule, even if you are a product of the NJ public school system) demonstrates that
A) You can really only pin someone against something they have to defend.
B) Even if masslvely outgunned, you're still expected to "do something"


Too easy to abuse.   

PvP was more fun before VCs were attached, people tried a lot harder.   I rember being able to bag 10 C7s on a server back in the day, now everyone (myself included) fly so fricking carefully that Capital ship PvP is dull. Who can blaim people for this?  It is the responsible way to fly a team's asset, but is still is dull.

This is supposed to be a fun server, make a rule set that will promote fun and not a dick-meassuring contest. 

PvP in D2 is inherently unfair, to attach points to these engagments is silly.  bragging right is enough, especially when killing hexx.

PS.   next time I's involved with a campaing that has VCs for bagging capital ships, there will be VCs for chasing them off as well provided the number of players is equal.   Storm Season 2 offered points fo chasing DNs off in even-numbered battles and this forced capital ships to engage. 

IMHO, if a DN is worth 3 to kill it should be worth 2 to chase off in an even-numbered engagement (or something similar).
« Last Edit: April 23, 2005, 11:08:51 pm by FPF-DieHard »
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Dfly

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1735
  • Lyran Alliance Lives
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2005, 11:22:01 pm »


Quote



 

IMHO, if a DN is worth 3 to kill it should be worth 2 to chase off in an even-numbered engagement (or something similar).
Quote

why not make the DN worth more if it is chased off than it is worth dead?  ;D  the DN is supposed to be the ultimate ship of the shipyard, so it should never be afraid in an equal total ship battle. They(the team with the DN) would have the option of keeping their DN if they so choose to run, but would lose more points for that option of not fighting.  Afterall, the DNs are supposed to be the backbone and absolute muscle of a fleet.  :police:

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2005, 11:33:49 pm »

why not make the DN worth more if it is chased off than it is worth dead?  ;D  the DN is supposed to be the ultimate ship of the shipyard, so it should never be afraid in an equal total ship battle. They(the team with the DN) would have the option of keeping their DN if they so choose to run, but would lose more points for that option of not fighting.  Afterall, the DNs are supposed to be the backbone and absolute muscle of a fleet.  :police:

I thought about that, but it just doesn't make any sense to be worth more point chased off than killed.   

I think one point less than the kill value is reasonable, you'll still gain more points in the end be the disengagments as the DN can be chased off many times.   it can only be killed once (assuming some sort of OOB).
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2005, 05:05:38 am »
Actually I think the PVP VC's I'm currently running with are a fair compromise.
I personally see hex flipping as equally unfair as PVP as generally people will find that
ship type x drafting ship type y will draw AI opposition z and allow misssions of 2:05 as opposed
to 2:30.
If people are going to get insanely competitive there's nothing I can do to stop them
Mirror will still (imho) allow anyone to fly a BCG, keep the primo PVP'ers out of the DNH/BCV's as they won't be able to
rack up kills for their side- hopefully this will allow someone not normally "permitted" to fly a DN on an OOB server to jump in one.
I'm also thinking about increasing the disengagament time from a hex if you run, or decrease it if you die.

It rewards the guys who like PVP , it doesn't punish people who don't -the map should be large enough there's somewhere else to go.
It *should* not represent the traditonal alliances, so hopefully people can ignore who wins as the teams will likely never be the same for another server.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline ShadowLord

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 547
confusion
« Reply #63 on: April 25, 2005, 11:16:59 am »
Ok starting to get lost -- well actually I am lost on Mirror Mirror

Can anyone give an estimated start up date?
Are the rules still under review and revision or finalized?
Guess the final point is when does the draft start.. (LOL err guess we need two leaders to step up or do we have them)

ShadowLord

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #64 on: April 25, 2005, 05:59:21 pm »
Well (my) estimated start date would be 2nd weekend in may
now-
1) DH seems to have sulked off left do to a moral stance he felt he couldn't ignore
He has said he'll do the techie stuff though.
(Personally Im expecting a " Dick hurtz" to jump me in mission and pots dumb screenies)
I don't know if there's a server available in that time frame, I have to find out who to ask etc etc

2) The rules are pretty much the latest PVP ones (ie 3 top players get VP)
-Disengagement will be 3x as long for running as for dying (likely 20 minutes/1hour)
-Still working on the map areas (trying to pass it off to J'inn- he's being uncooperative)
-One ship/pilot
-Nothing with more than 4 drone racks (and that might drop to 2)
-No escorts
-restricted (ie: 1) DN's on at a time (not assigned, no OOB)
-Fighters are out, PF's are non existant, it's whatver you can load onto your cruiser and throw at the other guy
-I'm trying to seriously mess up the YFA/YLA dates so I can fit the '63-'77 ships into a 7 year span.
Firsty Day/two will be CL/CA/CC then the + refits, then whatver comes next up to CLC/CB, days will likely be stretched so CB/CLC will appear early than 6/7 of the way through the server
-The CS will not be making an appearance (sorry all I still think it's close enough to CJ)
-I think fast drones would be amusing for the whole server,(especially with early ships) but I've still got a pile of PM's to go through so I don't need more
-I still need a leader for one side (which reminds me)


Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline KAT J'inn

  • CFO - Kzinti War Machine, Inc.
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2294
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2005, 06:55:13 pm »
PSSTtttttttttttttttt!


Guys.  Over here.


Ol J'inn is setting up a "When does Hexx blow a fuse" pool.   <cough> I get 10% of the pot <cough> for Administrative costs.

I'm taking 4/27/05 PM.

<throws in $1.00>





Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #66 on: April 25, 2005, 07:35:44 pm »
May 1st at noon

<throws in 81 cents-1 cdn $>
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #67 on: April 25, 2005, 07:53:36 pm »
<twitches>
No, no really I'm fine.. just because I can get a PM saying "all the Feds want fighters in"
and  another saying "all the Feds want a server without fighters" and now half the Feds seem
to be "waiting to see how the rules shape up" while not actually giving me any idea is fine
No that's not foam.. I'm just drooling a bit.. yes, that nervous tic has always been there...
the PM's saying "hex flipping is boring, go with PVP VPs" and the "PVP VP's are the devils' work" are easily
combined into one coherent VP package... any day now I'll post it.. no no I always stare off into space mumbling
to myself...no, the fact that no one's going to show up for the server if I can actually get this up and running doens;t bother me..
oh sorry, am I gigling again? no no just remembering a funny Simpsons episode..really I'm not about to crack.. maps are fun
"early era" "late era" easy enough.. just have to run two maps side by side , no problem at all... I happen to like the drawings I'm doing on the walls thanks.. really the colours are very pretty..
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #68 on: April 25, 2005, 08:00:31 pm »
<twitches>
No, no really I'm fine.. just because I can get a PM saying "all the Feds want fighters in"

Bleah!  Turn off your ability to read PMs until the design process is done, or else I'm tossing in a dollar and taking tomorrow, before noon in the poll.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Green

  • I'm not a
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3004
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #69 on: April 25, 2005, 09:16:24 pm »
Ol J'inn is setting up a "When does Hexx blow a fuse" pool.   <cough> I get 10% of the pot <cough> for Administrative costs.

I'm taking 4/27/05 PM.

<throws in $1.00>

Nah, he'll last longer.  He said the second weekend in May, so I'll go 11 May.  That should allow the test server some time to run ... and then the real serious PMs to be sent.

I'm thinking about giving odds on this one since it seems like such an easy bet.  ;)

Offline FPF-Paladin

  • 'Thou shalt not CAD.' - DH
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 588
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #70 on: April 26, 2005, 12:42:45 pm »
Thought I'd throw my 2 cents in...

Drones/fighters:  Personally?  Really dislike the carrierfests of the past and wish something could be done with them similar to the new X-ships from the last campaign.  Drones... well, I don't rely on them personally and could do without them but I know there are others who feel different so I wouldn't ask for no drones.

PvP rules:  Hrm... interesting, except the part where it's the top 3?  How do you figure out the top 3?  If by reputation then I could probably closely guess who might be considered that skilled, but we're also now talking about fed vs fed ships, not the familiar ships some of these pilots use.  I'd like to see this expanded beyond 3 if it must be this way to include other players who normally wouldn't make such a short list.. exception being if -

Bounties:  Hell yeah, but not so much a bounty (ex double vcs or some such) that suddenly a bounty pilot feels like he can't take any risks whatsoever.  Been there, and although it was fun after a while I felt like I could only get back to having fun if I was killed (against orders and I'd never let that happen willingingly) or if I switched into non VC ships.  Just alter this idea a bit to make it a little less important, but still important for it to mean something.  Maybe make it mean you're considered a size class larger for VC purposes if you're in a VC ship (assuming some sort of OOB or specialty ship VC scoring) or make it so if you're in a non VC ship you count as a minor VC ship or specialty kill... something simple.

I'm not a hard fellow to get along with, so I'll probably show and try out whatever you come up with anyway Hexx :)  That's why I didn't say much prior to this.



PS:  And yes; I want that rematch but preferably when you're flying Lyran (or choice race instead of necessarily fed vs fed)  :P
~Life cannot find reasons to sustain it, cannot be a source of decent mutual regard, unless each of us resolves to breathe such qualities into it. ~

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #71 on: April 26, 2005, 12:49:08 pm »

Really dislike the carrierfests of the past and wish something could be done with them similar to the new X-ships from the last campaign. 

By that do you mean Nerf them to a resonable level?   

Look for me on TS tonight, I've some ideas I can run by you.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #72 on: April 26, 2005, 12:58:45 pm »
Bounties:  Hell yeah, but not so much a bounty (ex double vcs or some such) that suddenly a bounty pilot feels like he can't take any risks whatsoever.  Been there, and although it was fun after a while I felt like I could only get back to having fun if I was killed (against orders and I'd never let that happen willingingly) or if I switched into non VC ships. 

In Ye Olde days, a bounty was a way to make a pilot in an important ship stay and fight, in addition to being a way to gain VC's.  If a pilot had a bounty on his head, he could not run from combat unless he was outnumbered by live pilots.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline KAT J'inn

  • CFO - Kzinti War Machine, Inc.
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2294
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #73 on: April 26, 2005, 01:30:00 pm »
ARrrrrrrrrgfhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Just use the stock FS OP+ list.

One ship per player.

I like the Ace Based PvP VC points idea.

Make bases destroyable.

Disengagement rule . . . maybe.

That's it.



It's easy.


el-Karnak

  • Guest
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #74 on: April 26, 2005, 02:04:43 pm »
Yeah well, YOU KNOW WHAT!!   :multi:

Offline Age

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2005, 04:24:04 pm »
  I am with Jinn on this.What is that?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2005, 04:37:34 pm by Age »

Offline FPF-Wanderer

  • Order of Battle Wonk
  • Hot and Spicy
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 354
  • Gender: Male
  • Trek Nerd Since 1976
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2005, 09:21:31 pm »
ARrrrrrrrrgfhhhhhhhhhhhhh



Just use the stock FS OP+ list.

One ship per player.

I like the Ace Based PvP VC points idea.

Make bases destroyable.

Disengagement rule . . . maybe.

That's it.



It's easy.



Totally agree with J'inn on this.  Hell, let folks fly the escorts if they want.  C'mon, it's just Feds vs Feds.
Alliance SAC, SG4 / Alliance SAC, RDSL / Federation A/RM: AOTK, SSII, GW4 / Federation Chief of Staff / Member of the Flying Circus / Alliance Map Guy

Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 26163
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2005, 10:47:36 pm »
Like everything pretty much but would like a more precise clarification on how the ace PvP thing would work as I see a few potential problems with it, but need it clarified more precisely before I can be sure if my concerns are valid.  So please nail down what you are specifically intending at this point Hexx, seeing a few to many "kinda  and  "sort of" comments. 

Offline Kzinbane

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 123
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2005, 11:07:51 pm »
Escort vs Escort could be pretty funny to watch, but Feds are "supposed" to beat their enemy with superior phasers, photon torp's and sturdier ships.  If no limit is put on drone racks you'll just see a bunch of quasi-Kzinti ships flying around doing 2 minute missions vs the AI and not much longer vs anyone that actually flies a more phaser and photon Fed type ship.

I say no more than 2 drone racks.  NO shuttles (mod the shiplist).  You wanna kill the enemy, go in and fight him.


Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #79 on: April 27, 2005, 09:13:24 am »
Escort vs Escort could be pretty funny to watch, but Feds are "supposed" to beat their enemy with superior phasers, photon torp's and sturdier ships. If no limit is put on drone racks you'll just see a bunch of quasi-Kzinti ships flying around doing 2 minute missions vs the AI and not much longer vs anyone that actually flies a more phaser and photon Fed type ship.

I say no more than 2 drone racks. NO shuttles (mod the shiplist). You wanna kill the enemy, go in and fight him.



I agree on limiting droners, and fighters as well.. no reason for the F18Cm.. it is pure cheese.. Stock fighters only if fighters are used, no more than 2 squadrons.. period... Drone ships restricted like the CAD and variants (Including other drone ships like NEC)..

4 Drone racks are enough, but keep shuttle in.. a surprise SP is alwyas good.. it limits drones, but yet allows the options for a suicide, marine, ww, and SP shuttles.. many Fed ships are limited to 4 shuttles anyways.. the BCG and BCF have 6 shuttles, but most players can easily eliminate a SP with a T- Bomb... as such most drone bearing ships don't pose much of a threat unless it is a pure drone ship.. a pure drone ship or a ship with more than 4 racks is a bit OTT for Feds IMHO, especially Fed vs Fed..

I say 4 racks as the F-BCG has 4 racks, probably one of the few Fed ships of larger hull types to cary that many racks.. now the NEC has 5 racks and should be restricted.. the PH G and 5 Drone racks is almost instant death on any other Fed ship in the game when doing an over-run with H&R on enemy tractors.. DN and BC Hull classes excluded.

"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #80 on: April 27, 2005, 10:08:20 am »
Make ships cheap.  We've been flying a lot of Fed v Fed battles on IP the past couple of days and they have all been very bloody and very quick. 

This happens when both sides' best option is to close to point-blank with overloads.  ;D
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-Jem

  • D.Net VIP
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 149
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #81 on: April 27, 2005, 10:29:40 am »
I have no problem allowing drone ships as we have a number of good ships that can easily kill them.

i.e. Fast Cruisers or the new light cruisers are rather good at just phaser boating the things to death.
Capt. Jem


Offline Capt Jeff

  • 1AF
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 736
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #82 on: April 27, 2005, 10:40:32 am »
Please, no plethera of carriers.

CVS/NVS/BCV are fine.   The rest is too many, epecially CVD types.

my $.02
Capt Jeff

Former SFC2.NET Administrator
C.O., Heavy Command Cruiser
USS Crasher NCC 1733

1AF---Friendship, Honor, Fun.  It's what we Play For.

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #83 on: April 27, 2005, 01:10:00 pm »
Combine what Pesty, Jeff, Jem, and DH have said.  8)
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #84 on: April 27, 2005, 01:24:09 pm »
But...but everyone hated the Ace PVP thing..now you all want it??

-Uhmm only 4 launcher ship in (atm) is the BCG
Drone ships/escorts are staying out.
-It's to try and make peeps use the photons, plus see how many I can convince
the CLC is better then the CB.  ;D
- Fighters are prety much out, might rhow the basic carriers in, not sure
Again I can't see removing the droneboats and leaving carriers in.

PVP (as it stands now  :P ) is simply VP points awarded to the top
3 -5 pilots.
Only missions that count towards their kills are missions in which they had no wingmen.
Thus any 1 v1 1v2 or 1v3 mission are eligable.
If the have a wing who drops right at mission start it would count, if the wing actually makes it into mission it
does not.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline FPF-Tobin Dax

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2719
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #85 on: April 27, 2005, 01:40:24 pm »
I was just looking at the 4 posts above mine and they made sense to me...I didn't see any PvP comments there.
Suspected leader of Prime Industries, #1 Pirate Cartel

Offline ShadowLord

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 547
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #86 on: April 27, 2005, 02:38:33 pm »
So --

VP points awarded to the top 3-5 players based on Prestige Points?

Still interested in the server just -- umm well feel like a klingon lost in FED space about now.. bad enough I have to fly one of those "Garbage Scows"...

Honestly I think it would be a great idea if I got to fly Monsters and help whichever side is looing or low on numbers for the server..

Yes that is honestly not only a great idea but an excellent way to avoid putting my arse in a big blue Garbage Scow..

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #87 on: April 27, 2005, 02:41:02 pm »
Flying Fed ships is easy
Just point and shoot.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2005, 03:16:07 pm »
Still interested in the server just -- umm well feel like a klingon lost in FED space about now.. bad enough I have to fly one of those "Garbage Scows"...

Now now, be nice.  They don't need to be hauling garbage.  They need to be hauled away, AS garbage.

<Scottish fisticuffs ensue....>

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline ShadowLord

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 547
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #89 on: April 29, 2005, 07:39:54 am »
Has the server been delayed or are you still hoping for Around May2?..

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #90 on: April 29, 2005, 08:15:58 am »
Yeha, didn't realize first weekend in May was uhmm, now.
Map + shiplist will be finished this weekend.
Sent to J'inn for him to make it work, test should be next weekedn, then
two fun filled weeks of exploding Fedeartion ships.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #91 on: April 29, 2005, 10:24:08 am »
Yeha, didn't realize first weekend in May was uhmm, now.
Map + shiplist will be finished this weekend.
Sent to J'inn for him to make it work, test should be next weekedn, then
two fun filled weeks of exploding Fedeartion ships.

While you are finishing the shiplist, is there any way you can be convinced to make the two factions point to different model folders?  So, for example, there would be a different model for the Good Fed F-CA and the Bad Fed F-CA?

Then I could give my side all TOS ships, and watch them blow the frell out of all those ugly TNG junkers with their obviously outsourced-to-Klinzhai warp nacelles.

(Or I could give one side ISS looking ships; it would be cool.)

-S'Cipio the Fashion Critic
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #92 on: April 29, 2005, 11:36:54 am »
Yeah that's part of the "plan" to get extra model folders for some of the Fed ships
to use for the Empire stuff.
Part of me is simply amused at the confusion that 6 identical CB's fighting in an asteroid belt
with fast drones will have though..
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline ShadowLord

  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 547
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #93 on: April 29, 2005, 11:52:36 am »
Hexx -- I really don't see the problem -- 6CB on the map -- all fed ships -- simple answer is to kill every single one of the stupid buggers except the one I am flying.. Any chance you can increase the number of TBOMBS for this server?

I may want to get a little twitchy and just start the TBOMBS on friend and foe alike..


IE
KHH_Minime "Duck what are you doing I am flying beside you"
KHH_ShadowLord"Sorry mini you were in a fed ship -- it said you were allied to me and I took that as an insult and started to Tbomb it -- must be the Klingon sitting in the captains chair"

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #94 on: April 29, 2005, 01:15:29 pm »
Hexx -- I really don't see the problem -- 6CB on the map -- all fed ships -- simple answer is to kill every single one of the stupid buggers except the one I am flying.. Any chance you can increase the number of TBOMBS for this server?

I may want to get a little twitchy and just start the TBOMBS on friend and foe alike..

Time to check out the F-GSC.   It has seven transporters, if I recall correctly......

-S'Cipio Kyle
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #95 on: April 29, 2005, 05:32:43 pm »
Hexx -- I really don't see the problem -- 6CB on the map -- all fed ships -- simple answer is to kill every single one of the stupid buggers except the one I am flying.. Any chance you can increase the number of TBOMBS for this server?

I may want to get a little twitchy and just start the TBOMBS on friend and foe alike..

Time to check out the F-GSC. It has seven transporters, if I recall correctly......

-S'Cipio Kyle

Only propblem is that it only has 24 marines... but it is great at stealing spares from the enemy.. that is if the scripts will allow it..

as for the matches of having 6 of the same ship in a mission, that is what F11 with F1 view is for.. it will display Allied above friendly ships to help prevent you from selecting a friendly target.

"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline KAT J'inn

  • CFO - Kzinti War Machine, Inc.
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2294
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #96 on: April 29, 2005, 05:45:25 pm »

Sent to J'inn for him to make it work



BWHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA   * SNORT*  WHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAH *SNORT* *SNORT* BWHAHAHAHAHA


<gasp>

<weeze>


Oh man . . . 

<weeze>

Now that's good comedy.


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #97 on: April 29, 2005, 05:48:06 pm »
Glad you liked it

Check yer PM's when your EVE high dies sometime tomorrow morning  ;D
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #98 on: April 29, 2005, 05:49:54 pm »
..

as for the matches of having 6 of the same ship in a mission, that is what F11 with F1 view is for.. it will display Allied above friendly ships to help prevent you from selecting a friendly target.



Hmm, well yes that would be one way....
or we could find some computer guy who could write an installer that would duplicate the current Federation model folders.. hmm wonder if
I know anyone with that ability and dedication to the community..
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline KAT J'inn

  • CFO - Kzinti War Machine, Inc.
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2294
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #99 on: April 29, 2005, 05:51:16 pm »
First thing first Hexx . . . .

Make sure you have two RMs lined up who have sworn in blood to run their respective side as nutterly as possible.

Otherwise . . . don't bother.

Learned that the hard way in GW5.


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #100 on: April 29, 2005, 05:52:41 pm »
Sears really didn't seem to say No
Sides Ill just make sure I keep switching sides until everything works out.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #101 on: April 29, 2005, 05:53:38 pm »
Hexx -- I really don't see the problem -- 6CB on the map -- all fed ships -- simple answer is to kill every single one of the stupid buggers except the one I am flying.. Any chance you can increase the number of TBOMBS for this server?

I may want to get a little twitchy and just start the TBOMBS on friend and foe alike..

Time to check out the F-GSC. It has seven transporters, if I recall correctly......

-S'Cipio Kyle

Only propblem is that it only has 24 marines... but it is great at stealing spares from the enemy.. that is if the scripts will allow it..

Marines and spares were not what I had in mind for those 7 transporters.   ;)

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #102 on: April 29, 2005, 06:05:28 pm »
..

as for the matches of having 6 of the same ship in a mission, that is what F11 with F1 view is for.. it will display Allied above friendly ships to help prevent you from selecting a friendly target.



Hmm, well yes that would be one way....
or we could find some computer guy who could write an installer that would duplicate the current Federation model folders.. hmm wonder if
I know anyone with that ability and dedication to the community..

Why copy the folders when the Shiplist can just use the current installed models, plus any models you want to add? Prevents a massive DL.. several ships in the stock game call the same model for 4 or 5 ships during a mission without problems.. as such, duplicating the Physical models is just a redundancy and is un-necessary... plus will take a bit of HDD space without a valid need to do so..

Now if you are adding Models .. I can build an installer for them and all your shiplist will need to do is point to that one installed model.. it makes no difference how many entries in your shiplist you have for it and it makes no difference if it is enemies or not.. as such say you are using Klingon for the Mirror race.. the Assets/Models/FCA/FCA.mod will work for the K-CB just as well as it will work for F-CB, Assets/Models/FCA/FCA.mod

Race, sides, number of entries i the shiplist will make no difference to the game on which model it is using or how many times it is being used.. this will save install time, HDD space, install speed, easier uninstall, etc...

Hope that this helps.

Also it will help when you modify the Model.siz file... You will not need to modify the Model.siz file at all.... except to enter the ships you added..

 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2005, 06:36:56 pm by Pestalence »
"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

Offline Julin Eurthyr

  • Veltrassi Ambassador at Large
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1057
  • Gender: Male
  • Back in Exile due to Win 7 - ISC RM/Strat Com.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #103 on: April 29, 2005, 06:27:33 pm »
Hexx:

If you're just looking to copy the Fed model folders to make a second set available for those who wish to modify the "Empire" ships, I could fish out the old LB5 Installer and modify it...

AKA: Koloth Kinshaya - Lord of the House Kinshaya in the Klingon Empire
S'Leth - Romulan Admiral
Some anonymous strongman in Prime Industries

Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #104 on: April 29, 2005, 06:30:59 pm »
Actually I'm thinking an installer that could simply create models for
FF (?) DD (?) CL CA CC(?) BCH DN would be OK, there aren't that many Mirror models out there
and I think most people will be flying NCL/CA's so you wouldn't need that many extra model folders.
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline KAT J'inn

  • CFO - Kzinti War Machine, Inc.
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2294
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #105 on: April 29, 2005, 09:15:03 pm »
Sears really didn't seem to say No
Sides Ill just make sure I keep switching sides until everything works out.

oh lord  . . .



Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #106 on: April 30, 2005, 12:39:23 am »
Actually I'm thinking an installer that could simply create models for
FF (?) DD (?) CL CA CC(?) BCH DN would be OK, there aren't that many Mirror models out there
and I think most people will be flying NCL/CA's so you wouldn't need that many extra model folders.

Well, sure, but I really was thinking of populating my side (good guys) with TOS models, and the other side (bad guys) with TNG models.  And there are plenty of both of those out there.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Pestalence_XC

  • "The Terminator"
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2636
  • Gender: Male
  • "The Terminator" Pestalence_XC, Xenocorp
Re: Mirror PVP rules + VC's
« Reply #107 on: April 30, 2005, 12:54:38 am »
Well, for a 2 week server, I see no real purpose for anyone to go through all that trouble.. now if it was going to be a 2 month campaign, then for visual eye candy, I could see one doing it..

However as I told Hexx, I'll make an installer to do what he wants..

Also, if Hex likes, I can incorporate some of the D2 Model Pack models into the installer with an option of Modeled or non modeled install version (either to install the D2 Models or to copy stock models)...

Anyhow, for those not familiar with Atrahasis and P81's work from a while back (2002), here is the ship charts for the Federation ships from the D2 Model Pckage...

"You still don't get it, do you?......That's what he does. That's all he does! You can't stop him! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead!"

Member :
Xenocorp / Dynaverse.net Moderator & Beta Test Team
SFC 4 Project QA Coordinator
Taldren Beta Test Team
14 Degrees East Beta Test Team
Activision Visioneers SFC 3 Beta Test Team

 

Loading...