Topic: OK her is the deal on GW5 contining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Age]

  It was just an idea but a buddy system for noobes like myself I kinda like.I have enjoyed flying with DieHard when you are haveing and are in a good mood  as well as Tracey and Jem.I just wished I could catch up to Pestalence when he decides come GW4 and SGO4 he didn't fly on but you are all good in the end.

[Corbomite]

 ... but you are all good in the end.

Well Kroma certainly thinks so.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

 ... but you are all good in the end.

Well Kroma certainly thinks so.

 

[Rolling]

The only reason we chose to stay on our own voice comms during campaigns was so we wouldn't get cooties from the other races.

 

[Grim]

lol..

Good to see you are still around still Kim

[Rolling]

Well, about a week ago I was looking into doing some downloading and was gonna reinstall OP just for the fun of it.

I think I may wait a while longer.

[OlBuzzard]

Kim...

Howdy, ma'am..  please to see ya this mornin'.  Mighty fine day! 

(tips hat to lady)

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Well, about a week ago I was looking into doing some downloading and was gonna reinstall OP just for the fun of it.

I think I may wait a while longer.

Good thinking.

Nice to see you post though.

[WarSears]

Kroma this will be my last post on this therad I see no resaon to keep arguing with you.


There is no need for me to be a apologist for anyone while R/P isn't my cup of tea there was nothing wrong with Mazeppa or LK post. There has been may times in the past that the KBF was the target of people fun. Even tho they new most of the KBF didn't like it. You your self even said that KBF stood for Kroma Bitch's Forsale.

About GW5 and justify what we did I have no need. It was are plan to take the Feds out of GW5 sorry if you don't like it, Say what you will about ruining up the score but the fact is the Alliance has pulled off plenty of last min objectives just see FT post.

Once again, I could careless about how wins or loses the server, I just wanted it to remain fun for as many players as long as possible. Your leader and other team memebrs have stated quiet clearly with no proding from me that this was not what they wanted in fact they were attempting to do the exact oposite by wiping out the last non-VC fed resupply.

It sure doesn't sound like it.

About me not letting go of the past I think you need to look in the mirror the KCW must really burn you.

If it make you feel any better Kroma I do feel bad. I feel bad if people had there fun ruined that wasn't the intent.

[Kroma BaSyl]

There is no need for me to be a apologist for anyone while R/P isn't my cup of tea there was nothing wrong with Mazeppa or LK post. There has been may times in the past that the KBF was the target of people fun. Even tho they new most of the KBF didn't like it. You your self even said that KBF stood for Kroma Bitch's Forsale.

Clowning around in RP post vs ruining the server for others to have their fun. I sorry but the two don't even come close. I guess my wise cracking is just another justification for malevonent behavior. Weak arguement.

About GW5 and justify what we did I have no need. It was are plan to take the Feds out of GW5 sorry if you don't like it, Say what you will about ruining up the score but the fact is the Alliance has pulled off plenty of last min objectives just see FT post.

It is mathmatically imossible for the Alliance to win the campaign. Has been for a while, so this logic is faulty.

It sure doesn't sound like it.


About me not letting go of the past I think you need to look in the mirror the KCW must really burn you.

It does bother me that what could have been a fun server and community building event was ruined by a couple of  people with bad attitudes.

If it make you feel any better Kroma I do feel bad. I feel bad if people had there fun ruined that wasn't the intent.

I have never thought you were one of the ones with the bad attitude, still don't. I just wish there were more like you in both camps.

[Lepton]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

[FPF-DieHard]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

[Lepton]

Age, while a good idea in spirit, it ruins the flavor of the game. The fun of the D2 is the swinging of balance in numbers. Offensives might as well be called off if this rule came into effect. Most of the fun I've had is when Die Hard decides to have a Crack Whore offensive. The idea was to get as many Fed, or Alliance players on at one time as you could(at some damned weird hour of the late night or early morning) and go for an objective. We've done it on almost every server I've played on, the most memorable being the Hydran Expedition on GW2. That was a blast.

The whole idea is to "get there fustest with the mostest". The Coalition decided for once to have a Crack Whore server. It happens.

This server was a fiasco, numberswise, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. By making players log off to keep numbers even, you'll drive off more players than you'll keep.

While having a great number of people log on to do a strategic push is certainly permitted and possible in the D2, I would say that it is hardly fair or equitable.  I understand that it has been a source of pride and fun in the past, but for me it really does not pass the smell test and I believe it never should have for most people.  The  idea to me is that people are logging onto the D2 to play with and against other people, not steamroll over the AI.  As I said before, you don't play a basketball game 20 vs 3.  Therefore, the outcome in the instance of equal player numbers all the time would be that the most skilled players are successful, not just the side that can muster the most numbers.  Further, the idea of winning or losing a server becomes absurd, as at any time one might be fighting for either "side" on the server.  One would therefore be basing one's enjoyment of playing on a server on interactions with fellows, game play (as opposed to some sort of vicarious strategic reward that one may have played some vague part in), and the satisfaction of well-fought, even contest.

I have played in pure PvP campaigns and I can tell you that in those campaigns real strategic decisions were being made as to the allocation of forces and the timing of offensives and those offensives were met by the full force and intellect of human players determined to turn back the tide. If you want the glories of war and a strategic victory that is where it lies as each victory is fought against the full capacity of another human being, not the AI.  What won those battles was skill, game play tactics, and strategic thinking, not merely logging on with 20 people to whip up on the AI.

I continue to fail to see why the objective must be to win, rather than to play.  The fun is in the battle, not the victory.  If one wants to win all the time, play the AI exclusively.  Hell, log off and do a single player campaign.  To me, there is nothing to brag about in logging on when no one else is around and smashing up on the AI to claim what for me would be a meaningless objective.  Is that sporting?  I think not.  Is it sneaky?  I think so and it points up a win-at-all-costs attitude as opposed to "let's log on and actually play the game" as opposed to flip hexes.

I know for a fact that the system I suggest will never be implemented, but it is in fact the only equitable solution.  I'd like to see someone explain this Crack Whore server mentality to someone who has never played this game and see if they think it is fair.  I'd like to see someone explain to their kid that the way that Daddy's side wins a server is to play the game when no one else is around and run over the map while everyone else is asleep, etc.  I can tell you that kid will say, "That doesn't seem fair" and it's really that clear if you think about it. 

This however is not my main point.  I merely think people would find it more enjoyable to play on a server with balanced numbers where victories were fought for, not given at the expense of the AI.  I could certainly be wrong.

[Lepton]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

Please enlighten me as to the issue, then.

[FPF-DieHard]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

Please enlighten me as to the issue, then.

Read Kroma's post, I'm too lazy to quote 

[Lepton]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

Please enlighten me as to the issue, then.

Read Kroma's post, I'm too lazy to quote 

I've read all the posts.  The issue that is at hand is a symptom of a larger problem.  The win-at-all-costs attitude is the problem.  My suggested system would only appeal to those who actually enjoy playing against other people.  If the idea is to win, you might as well not bother playing.  If the idea is to play and have fun, might as well balance out the sides so at least things are equitable.  I don't understand why one would want to play on a server that was so unbalanced as either the loser or the victor.  It's pointless.

The running-up-the-score issue is a symptom of the general attitude of the players, that they wish to win as opposed to play.  To me, that is the issue.  One would only want to use the system I suggest if one actually wishes to play and not to win.

[Corbomite]

No, the real problem is that everyone can't agree there is a problem. That leads to an impass and breakdown of communication.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Seems to me that Alliance players had the option of logging on in Gorn accounts to continue the fight if they were interested in PvP and/or a challange.  As has been stated, the outcome was already decided for the server and the series so the only reson to continue would be for such fun and challange.  If playing anything other than Federation wasn't fun for some players, then their fun was limited by the limits of their own making.  It seems that the Coalition is being made villians by some by their actions and I think this is blaming them unjustly since the Alliance was not prevented in participating, just limited in how they could participate. 

I recently had to chastise myself for some of my posts regarding the OOB servers, realising that if I didn't like them noone was forcing me to participate, but that was no reason to be negative in my attitude towards them.  I find no fault with someone who leaves the server if the Federation was eliminated, flying Gorn might not be everyones cup of tea, it is similar to an OOB limitation where you have fewer ship options but still can fly if you wish.  But I do find fault in the blaming of other players actions for your own lack of fun.  Accept personal responsibility for your own fun.

[deadmansix]

Seems to me that Alliance players had the option of logging on in Gorn accounts to continue the fight if they were interested in PvP and/or a challange.  As has been stated, the outcome was already decided for the server and the series so the only reson to continue would be for such fun and challange.  If playing anything other than Federation wasn't fun for some players, then their fun was limited by the limits of their own making.  It seems that the Coalition is being made villians by some by their actions and I think this is blaming them unjustly since the Alliance was not prevented in participating, just limited in how they could participate. 

I recently had to chastise myself for some of my posts regarding the OOB servers, realising that if I didn't like them noone was forcing me to participate, but that was no reason to be negative in my attitude towards them.  I find no fault with someone who leaves the server if the Federation was eliminated, flying Gorn might not be everyones cup of tea, it is similar to an OOB limitation where you have fewer ship options but still can fly if you wish.  But I do find fault in the blaming of other players actions for your own lack of fun.  Accept personal responsibility for your own fun.

 the problem as I see it wasnt the strgic move of player numbers in my view although daughting not the problem,the problem was that due to the complete elimination of all fed territory and the loss of any and all supply points to the feds, was excessive and uncalled for, and as this is a game doing so kept those players that just wanted to fly fed from playing at all, kudos to the coalition for planing,and execution of a well thought out plan but in my view it was carred out way to far and kept players from playing and that should never be done.

 true flying only one race limits one options but that is the players choice, just as I was stuck only flying hydran until I became secure here in the community but to some flying other races is not an option and we should be able to accommodate them as well.

 this is my view for what its worth.

[Pestalence_XC]

What I have seen on the server personally is this...

Roms with no blue hexes to hit.. they take some Gorn hexes but not vigorously..

but as soon as a blue hex shows up, they attack it en Mass, not even giving enough time for the hex to have the DV raised... I flipped 21,15 last night and 2 feds and 3 gorn tried to rais the DV of that one hex.. it got to 7 then was immediately hit by 4 roms, 1 flying a DN.. they went from 10,9 section of space over to 21,15 just to het the 1 minor non VC Fed hex while disreguarding the Gorn hexes...

Every PVP I have had has almost been 2 on 1.. I hardly ever got a 1 v 1 or 2 v 2.... because of the Economy of the feds, the yards are building only the sNCLR, which is not being built and is illegal to fly.. an even then the Fed yards only build 2 of those every 4 turns.. nothing else.. so we can't replace ships that are destroyed and we are still being stuck in illegal specialty ships...

Every time I get killed in battle, I have to make a new account for Fed just to have a playable ship, I run maybe 5 missions vs AI before I get hit by 2 Rom pilots and get my ship killed.. then I have to make a new account in order to keep playing..

I find no fun playing as plasma chucker.... I enjoy a mix it up ship where tactics are extremely important..

I have greatly enjoyed the Fed vs Rom matches I have been in.. makes me try things that normally gets ships killed.. like last night I was in a 2 Rom vs me match.. I almost took out Netman, but both Netman and his partner were flying sSPX against my lone DGX... I know I scored over a hundered internals on Netman, however he was still running speed 31 and had a tractor ready which got me killed... I was severely out gunned by the 2 vs 1 but the match was fun... however this is just a rinse and repeat of almost every match I have been in...

as such, It is no fun having to make a new account every 6th mission just to gain 1 hex worth nothing to the Roms in order to try to build the economy enough to have maybe a 3rd ship in our yards..

as for player balance.. at 3 AM was the only time I have ever say even numbers of Rom vs Alliance (CST) and even then the DN on the boards completely negated anything that the Alliance tried to do...

that is why I suggest a race cap like they use in SFC 3.. limit each race to say 5 players.. then when all slots are full, then increase by 2 slots per race until they are full and so on..

this will make all sides have equal number of registered players per race .. some may not get to fly the race they want, but it is fair..

the problem with GW 5 and the number of roms is this..

say a planet has 5 VC on it.. there are 15 Roms on and 6 Alliance on.. say everyoine is in the Planet hex.. everyone is flying 2 vs 2.. this allows the Roms to run 7 missions stacked under all the PVP matches.. there is no way to even realistically attempt to hold the hex as they are running 10 missions on 1 hex to our 3, resulting in a 7 DV shift to their favor (if the Alliance ships win) in any given 20 min period.. given that the 7 players playing AI in the hex only run 1 mission in the 20 min..

so where is the fun in even attempting to play any sort of strategic game with that sort of odds..

that is why the majority of alliance has said they quit the server.. I was hoping that some of the Coalition would be honorable enough to swap sides to blance out numbers.. but winning is all that counts.. see with even numbers, then you actually can use strategy and plan your movements and have great PVP's that are worth flying because the map will show the results of the pilot skills, instead of how well you can kill AI..

It wan't that the Alliance didn't want to play, but Steam rolling 1 race that over half of the PVP comes from was just wrong... an honorable thing that the Coalition should have done was state.. let's push them back to maybe a 3 hex deep area and let them have the one base... their economy will be so poor that they can't get good ships, but at least we would get PVP as they tried to fight their way out...

Instead, because someone is scared of the Fed Fighters, they steamroll the Fed.. the Fed fighters die quickly if you use your plasma on them.. it makes for a much longer mission, but I saw the other night in a 2 vs 2 where2 sSPX took out 6 sqadrons of F18Cm and then proceeded to take the rest of the match.. the statement of the Fed fighters being too tought and a major problem is just white wash and holds no water.. Feds did not have many carriers built.. that means you would be fighting AI ships with fighters.. and even then the AI uses slow drones.. which meant taking out the command ship is a piece of cake.. On top of that the Fighter missles only do 4 damage each, unless equippped with Type 1 Med missles, and even then a strong shield reinforcement with an ECM shift of one basically negates 2 of the 3 missles, not counting T bombs and PD and defensive tractors.... I mean come on.. if 2 xSPX can kill 6 squadrons of F18Cm and still win the match, I am sure the bigger iron should have no problem..

Anyhow, I hope a system is incorporated to where it forces equal numbers... Makes the server fair and fun.. and it gives the ability to let your battles decide the outcome instead of the number of missions run on a hex..