Topic: OK her is the deal on GW5 contining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KBFLordKrueg]

Now I was on the server last night and I have a question: There is one Fed planet deep in Gorn space. If the Romulan strategy demands that it be eliminated, why did I see no progress towards taking it away? There should be a tunnel 10 hexes deep by now into Gorn space to rid you of this serious danger to the empire. This is the plan isn't it and you are sticking to it right?

Are you kidding? After the hissy everyone's thrown because we executed a tatical move with greater success than we dreamed?  
When are you guys gonna get it? The whole goal was to eliminate or at least greatly lessen what we considered the greatest threat. With fighters that launch 4-5 drones each, coupled with fast drones in the late era, the Feds are damn tough, especially with a Gorn wing.
We expected to see more Gorns on than Feds (as was Jinn's intent, Gorn vs Roms, with only minor Fed involment), but that was rarely seen. We also expected more Feds to hop in Gorn ships as the Fed space shrank...again, didn't happen. Instead we're accused of all sorts of foul things and looked down upon because out plan was more successful than any of us ever expected.
Should have flipped a hex deep in Gorn space like that to begin with, instead of right on the front lines, and all that BS wouldn't have occured either...
I will also give great Kudos to those Feds who have continued to stick it out, especially those who have switched to flying Gorn ships.
Had a the longest match ever last night with TobinDax (BruceDax), 2-1/2 hrs!   I finally left the map in tribute to the most even match I've had in a long time...both of us sniping at each other constantl;y. An outstanding Plasma Ballet!

[Mazeppa]

.... They don't like that there is no one to fight, but their style of play demands that they keep pushing because in the past servers have been won by late influxes of enemy players after weeks of pathetic showings.

Now all this being valid, it still brings up the fact that after a point (when the last Fed planet was taken) the Feds were no threat to the Romulans (there was going to be no magical influx of late players to the Feds, it was pretty obvious), yet the Romulans kept on not only knocking the Feds down, but kicking them repeatedly in the groin, teeth and stomach, even after several pleas from Fed players to stop and just please let them play (may we please have the privilege of playing on your server sir?). All this was met with either indifference or derisiveness and then scorn when people actually gave up after being fairly beaten.

Now I was on the server last night and I have a question: There is one Fed planet deep in Gorn space. If the Romulan strategy demands that it be eliminated, why did I see no progress towards taking it away? There should be a tunnel 10 hexes deep by now into Gorn space to rid you of this serious danger to the empire. This is the plan isn't it and you are sticking to it right?

The Feds are ALWAYS a threat.  Even now, they are a threat. Let me shout this out for all to see:   WE THINK THE FEDERATION IS ALWAYS A THREAT.  THEY ARE MOST WORTHY OPPONENTS, AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM ALL THE WAY OUT OR THEY WILL COME BACK AND CAUSE US GRIEF.  I strongly suspect we will see the Star of Andor leading a major effort around 3 AM Sunday morning to try and secure some sort of goal.  I suspect they might even try and fly in groups of two or three or something evil like that. 

The Fed planet 'way deep in Gorn space is an annoyance, and I do not think we can get to it.  The fact that we were told unilaterally that the Feds were allowed to Rot Fur to illegitimately obtain planets is offensive. 

The continual harping that the Coalition has put the last nail in the coffin of this game is offensive.  We played to win.  We broke no rules.

I do not think this game will die based on this server.  But if it does, then let it be remembered for all time that it ended with:

1. The United Federation of Planets using the most hated tactic in the Dynaverse, (Rotting Fur) to continue to vainly and stubbornly cling to their ship when there was a plethora of very fine ships available in the mighty Gorn Fleet.

2. The Alliance defeated by ROMULAN ships.

3. Officers of the United Federation of Planets pleading for mercy in General Chat.

4. Alliance pilots whining about Coalition pilots flying in groups of two or three.  Because the Alliance has never done that.

5. A Coalition boot firmly on the neck of the Alliance.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

It was a great match Kreug. Missed your calling I guess considering how great you flew.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The Feds are ALWAYS a threat.  Even now, they are a threat. Let me shout this out for all to see:   WE THINK THE FEDERATION IS ALWAYS A THREAT.  THEY ARE MOST WORTHY OPPONENTS, AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM ALL THE WAY OUT OR THEY WILL COME BACK AND CAUSE US GRIEF.  I strongly suspect we will see the Star of Andor leading a major effort around 3 AM Sunday morning to try and secure some sort of goal.  I suspect they might even try and fly in groups of two or three or something evil like that. 

As I said Sears, insane paranoia.

The Fed planet 'way deep in Gorn space is an annoyance, and I do not think we can get to it.  The fact that we were told unilaterally that the Feds were allowed to Rot Fur to illegitimately obtain planets is offensive. 

You yourself stated that it was a sensible rule change to allow the server to continue.

It was not unilateral, I allowed your RM to veto the decision, he remained silent on the issue.

The continual harping that the Coalition has put the last nail in the coffin of this game is offensive.  We played to win.  We broke no rules.

Never said you broke a rule, said you were unsportsman like by "running up" the score and attempting to demoralize players and cause them to quiet.

1. The United Federation of Planets using the most hated tactic in the Dynaverse, (Rotting Fur) to continue

Flipping an alliance planet or base for resupply was deemed league in this series several servers ago. The Coalition did it in fact during SGO4.

I guess most hated tactics are only cheating when others do them, not yourself. That must be why you thought rigging the KCW draft was OK, because you were doing it, even thought the rules said the draft was to be secret. Zeppa, you use situational ethics, which means you have none. The game was better off when you were retired.

2. The Alliance defeated by ROMULAN ships.

3. Officers of the United Federation of Planets pleading for mercy in General Chat.

4. Alliance pilots whining about Coalition pilots flying in groups of two or three.  Because the Alliance has never done that.

5. A Coalition boot firmly on the neck of the Alliance.

What can I say Zeppa, this pretty much proves everything I have been going on about, poor sportsmanship and malignant attitudes towards your fellow players. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples with loud mouths create the impression that these are the attitudes of the player base at large.

[Mazeppa]

I did not rig the KCW draft, you lying lump of lugage.  I guess I'll have to post everything I know after I discuss it with Tracey.  I just provided input, but I do know how the draft went down, including the way your team tried to divide the Black Fleet to your advantage by trading every Black Fleet member off of your team.  You were just amazed and upset when your little plan backfired on you.


Sorry, forgot this one:

6. Kroma will insist on having the last word, or in his case, pitcher of bile.

[WarSears]

Nice post Chuut and Corb

Corb I consider my self both a challenge seeker and a fun seeker.

You'll say you have no grudge, and maybe you personnally don't, however, a player on your team (Butcher) indicated that it was the Coalition's plan was to get the Alliance to quit and feel outnumbered. Krueg then confirmed that by saying:

"And it worked perfectly.  Grin
Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war."

To tell you the truth I never read Butcher post, and Krueg could have done without using the word demoralization. I believe you and some others are taking it way to serious.

So far your answer to these questions is that because Hooch tried to screw the KBF with his change of heart on the draft, which when it was pointed out to you that he did this because he wished to get people to get to know their opponents, you say you doubted that because of some preceived slight on a server 3 years prior. In any case, Hooch and the SSCF aren't even the people you have been attempting to drive off and demoralize. So why did you bring up those incidence as justification for your current behavior on this server?

Oh boy Kroma again I must repeat my self to you The only reason I brought up the SSCF was because you used Hooch to try and make a point all I did was point out facts.

As for justifying my behavior I have no need Ive done nothing wrong. just because you don't like the end results doesn't mean its bad behavior.

[KBF-Crim]

"What can I say Zeppa, this pretty much proves everything I have been going on about, poor sportsmanship and malignant attitudes towards your fellow players. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples with loud mouths create the impression that these are the attitudes of the player base at large."

Grrrrrrrrr

So...what.....we're not allowed to be Klingon anymore?

You playing the same game I am?

I said less emphisis on war..in war-game....I didnt say eliminate it...

Dont remember the "great fed turkey shoot?"  a huge allied offensive designed and carried out on an early Thanksgiving morning faced by a few valient defenders?

Dont remember the "hail mary?"  designed and carried on an early fathers day morning faced by a few valient defenders?

These offensives alone were expressly designed to take advantage of the fact that a majority of the defenders would be wrapped up in family commitments and unable to rise to the defense...

The alliance sought a clear tacitcal advantage that arouse from the majority of opposing players had personal commitments...while clearly keeping such an operation secret before inception...

Do we still scream foul?...or did you get a "well played...and well planned....we should have known"

Certainly had plenty of people speak up and say that "nice" or not...it was a valid tactic...

Seems alot different than sounding the horns of battel comming over the rise and announcing exacty what your target is and when you will be there pounding on it...giving the defenders plenty of time to put their butts on the line...

You've flown on our side....and you know how we play...and you never seem to have a problem with these tactics when you are the benificiary...

You're not playing against a bunch of wussies...we're comming like Atilla's hoards...

Many times there is no choice but to fight or run.

You want to mix up interpersonal problems with other players in with completley valid war game tactics and cry foul...it aint gonna wash...

I never hear these cries or foul when it is our space that's being over run.....or our worlds being targeted...our when our ships are gleefully blown to bits...

So knock off the melodrama and the not so subtle charactor Assination...

I'm gonna politely remind you there is an unmoderated forum at SFC2.net....

You guys want to continue beating each other over the head...go over there....get this crap off yer chest...then bury the frickin hatchet..even if it has to be in someones skull.

[Sirgod]

Wow Guys where did all this Anger come from? Is it the spring weather? I mean come on, How long have you all been friends? Shoot It seems like It's starting to Branch out everywhere lately.

Now Please, I ask you as a gentlemen, to try and Find some common ground. Just stop this Bickering.

Stephen

[Kroma BaSyl]

I did not rig the KCW draft, you lying lump of lugage.  I guess I'll have to post everything I know after I discuss it with Tracey.

Yes be sure to get your stories straight first. I have saved all corespondence over KCW too.

  I just provided input, but I do know how the draft went down, including the way your team tried to divide the Black Fleet to your advantage by trading every Black Fleet member off of your team. 

LOL...We only had one KBF member on our team after the initial draft. Crim. We never traded him, as trades never occurred. You have either  completely forgotten everything about it or are just telling more lies, something you seem to do quiet freguently but rather poorly.

You were just amazed and upset when your little plan backfired on you.

What plan exactly? We weren't the ones that attempted to circumvent the blind draft. You were. The only planning we did was to sitdown by ourselves to come up with our list on our own according to the rules. Once again your are projecting your willingness to cheat and negative motivations onto others, where they don't exists.

6. Kroma will insist on having the last word, or in his case, pitcher of bile.

This would be a much more damning comment on my behavior if you were not also pitching bile and attempting to get the last word yourself. Just another example of how iyou interpret an action as wrong if committed by another but right when you do it yourself.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

1. The United Federation of Planets using the most hated tactic in the Dynaverse, (Rotting Fur) to continue to vainly and stubbornly cling to their ship when there was a plethora of very fine ships available in the mighty Gorn Fleet.

Rotting Fur is using an enemy account to lose missions so that allied forces may more easily take possession of a hex.  An ally losing missions in an allied hex so that a hex may be flipped to a different allied race is NOT rotting Fur.  What it is a way to work around game dynamics so that an allied race may provide line of supply or resupply, something that would occur if this was a real war instead of a simulation.  Any one who thinks of such a tactic as "rotting fur" should reconsider applying a logical approach as to what empires would be capable of doing if this was not a simulation.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Oh boy Kroma again I must repeat my self to you The only reason I brought up the SSCF was because you used Hooch to try and make a point all I did was point out facts.

Actually, a Coalition memeber attempted to use the KCW full draft decision as justification for the campaign to demoralize Alliance player and force them to quiet as well as a justification for attempting to circumvent the blind draft. I have pointed out that even if Hooch did do something wrong to you, that was no reason to take it out on the players of this server as they had nothing to do with it.

As for justifying my behavior I have no need Ive done nothing wrong. just because you don't like the end results doesn't mean its bad behavior.

Once again, I could careless about how wins or loses the server, I just wanted it to remain fun for as many players as long as possible. Your leader and other team memebrs have stated quiet clearly with no proding from me that this was not what they wanted in fact they were attempting to do the exact oposite by wiping out the last non-VC fed resupply.

Hav eyou even read Zeppa's bile filled post? Is that what you want to be the apologist for? When Josh came pitching his bile in here I slapped him done just as quickly as I commented on the bile I saw from your side, the only difference in the 2 is that Josh felt proper remorse for his behavior but the individuals from your side did not.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I'm gonna politely remind you there is an unmoderated forum at SFC2.net....

Then why didn't you post this diatribe over there?

It isn't the tactic or any tactic I have an issue with. It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

And I thought that was what forum flamewars were for............

[Kroma BaSyl]

It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

And I thought that was what forum flamewars were for............

No Chuut this one is because people need to stop with the friggin hyper-comepitive-screw-everyone-but-my-own-team mentality. It has gone on long enough and I would hope that people stop and think about there action and motivation in the future. Based on past experience I am not to hopeful.

[FPF-DieHard]

Wow Guys where did all this Anger come from? Is it the spring weather? I mean come on, How long have you all been friends? Shoot It seems like It's starting to Branch out everywhere lately.

Now Please, I ask you as a gentlemen, to try and Find some common ground. Just stop this Bickering.

Stephen

You should let this continue.   It is only through rational discourse that a resolution of this silly BS will come.

Moderaters locking threads only sweeps things under the rug.   

So far as far as flame wars go, this has been quite civil with the worst insult being "lump of lying luggage" (priceless by the way  ).   I kinda asking the moderators to let this continue.

Truth is, we aren't friends.  I don't think we ever will be as there is too much anamosity built up which ironicly most involves people who don't play the game anymore. 

Even if everything the SSCF "allegedly" did is true, it does not matter.

Are we at the end of public servers?

[Corbomite]

Are you kidding? After the hissy everyone's thrown because we executed a tatical move with greater success than we dreamed?  

So you admit that this isn't really your "strategy" and it was done for the sake of maliciousness? You mean asking nicely wasn't the way to do it? We needed to throw a hissy? Thanks, I'll remember that for next time.

When are you guys gonna get it? The whole goal was to eliminate or at least greatly lessen what we considered the greatest threat. With fighters that launch 4-5 drones each, coupled with fast drones in the late era, the Feds are damn tough, especially with a Gorn wing.

And you did it well, congrats. Except for the fact that all your ship's need do is cloak and all those horrible, scary missiles go bye-bye. Next lame excuse?

We expected to see more Gorns on than Feds (as was Jinn's intent, Gorn vs Roms, with only minor Fed involment), but that was rarely seen. We also expected more Feds to hop in Gorn ships as the Fed space shrank...again, didn't happen. Instead we're accused of all sorts of foul things and looked down upon because out plan was more successful than any of us ever expected.

No one was villifiying you over using a great tactic to win, only going overboard when there was no need to and continuing when players asked you nicely to stop as the server was already decided (this whole thing has been decided since GW2 so you stomping the Feds out of existence does look like a vendetta, no matter how you try to defend yourselves).

Should have flipped a hex deep in Gorn space like that to begin with, instead of right on the front lines, and all that BS wouldn't have occured either...

Well, we thought you were cool. Our mistake. Won't make it again.

I will also give great Kudos to those Feds who have continued to stick it out, especially those who have switched to flying Gorn ships.

I've been playing both the whole server. I haven't been on lately as work has been a hassle the last week or so, but since I usually don't even rate a "gg" from the people I have encountered lately I'm wondering if I should bother at all.

[Lepton]

It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

And I thought that was what forum flamewars were for............

No Chuut this one is because people need to stop with the friggin hyper-comepitive-screw-everyone-but-my-own-team mentality. It has gone on long enough and I would hope that people stop and think about there action and motivation in the future. Based on past experience I am not to hopeful.

This is why I would argue for a system that effectively has no teams.  Past-intrigues aside, a person logs onto the server, sees which side is short, and plays for it. I would think that this would help balance out the number of fun seekers and strategists per side.  Strategies overall would be more ad-hoc and temporary.  Players generally in opposition would be forced to work together.  I personally do not understand why one would want to let a situation occur where one side overruns the map due to players not showing up.  How is that fun for anyone or challenging?  It isn't.  And I don't just mean GW5.  I mean every dang server where it seems clear one side is getting pounded for whatever reason.  Why let the situation persist?  As I have said elsewhere, I know of no game that is played with such uneven player numbers.  If it is game, treat it as such and even up the sides.  I'd like to see at least one major server to try out this method.  Couldn't hoit (hurt)?!

[Age]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.There is one exception to this and that is if there are new players on the Dyna 2.It would help them to team up with an experienced vetran pilot and go play some pvp a 2v1 yeah I know bad odds but the 1 player would be a veteran as most of you are either D2ers or IP pilots.This one of the better ways to balance it out unless you go the race registration as D3 does and have a clan war access forum either here or bozobits although it would make it simpliar here.
  I prefer not do this in D2 and to keep it the way it is as we like own little forums up there and I know there fleet forums although clans can team up with clans to build there own sites as all D3 clans have done.The only true clans on this forum are the SSCF and the EFF as we have our own separate sites.I would strongly suggest what I said above yeah I know some of you may not want to log of the server but to keep it even to bad get off.This about the only way around to solve this without race registration if you ask any D3er they get to learn all the races some members of the IKS prefer flying Fed and the same can be said for the 11th Spartan Vanguard no you wouldn't find the S31 flying anything but Fed.I will never see myself getting better on the Dyna unless I team up with Veteran and this will help rookies out.Yes indeed you guys are scary to play with as OP is a hard game to master.That is the only thing I can say this.

[Father Ted]

Age, while a good idea in spirit, it ruins the flavor of the game. The fun of the D2 is the swinging of balance in numbers. Offensives might as well be called off if this rule came into effect. Most of the fun I've had is when Die Hard decides to have a Crack Whore offensive. The idea was to get as many Fed, or Alliance players on at one time as you could(at some damned weird hour of the late night or early morning) and go for an objective. We've done it on almost every server I've played on, the most memorable being the Hydran Expedition on GW2. That was a blast.

The whole idea is to "get there fustest with the mostest". The Coalition decided for once to have a Crack Whore server. It happens.

This server was a fiasco, numberswise, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. By making players log off to keep numbers even, you'll drive off more players than you'll keep.

[FPF-DieHard]

Age, while a good idea in spirit, it ruins the flavor of the game. The fun of the D2 is the swinging of balance in numbers. Offensives might as well be called off if this rule came into effect. Most of the fun I've had is when Die Hard decides to have a Crack Whore offensive. The idea was to get as many Fed, or Alliance players on at one time as you could(at some damned weird hour of the late night or early morning) and go for an objective. We've done it on almost every server I've played on, the most memorable being the Hydran Expedition on GW2. That was a blast.

The whole idea is to "get there fustest with the mostest". The Coalition decided for once to have a Crack Whore server. It happens.

This server was a fiasco, numberswise, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. By making players log off to keep numbers even, you'll drive off more players than you'll keep.

What he said.   A slight imbalance is not a problem.

Actually, I have no problme with the Coaliton completly blowing out the alliance on this server.   Krueg and Hexx should be given a lot of credit.

This is not this issue.  Stay on target.