Topic: OK her is the deal on GW5 contining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[KBF-Crim]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

I know I'll be accused of trying to start trouble...too bad..

But what killed KCW was going from a voluntary 3 way sign up to a manditory draft as a direct result of dislike of actions on a previous server...

There was no problem with the logical desire for one faction in the 3 way to be defending the empire proper in a civil war....many Klingon regulars wanted to defend the empire...even if it meant being double teamed and losing...

Again...all logical and no problem....at the time...

Until many klingon regulars jumped rommy instead of flying allied to the feds on litter box...

As a direct responce to those actions...KCW then became a manditory draft...and the desires of people who thought the server was going to be set up as previously discussed and agreed upon where thrown out the window...

And I quote:

'And to think that I contacted Hooch and offered the 1AF to side with the KBF on the KCW server because I was afraid of a numbers imbalance for them.

I think the 1AF will steer clear from now on.

And I don't want to hear no "we just wanted to fly another race" crap. What a load.

And BTW....the Klingon Civil War server will be 100% draft. I promise that."

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

And when it became clear that many klink regs would end up on one team again...the plug got pulled...and KCW crashed on the rocks...

No one is more dissapointed than I am....I have been waiting my whole online time waiting for just such a server...just as I have waiting for Mirror mirror...

I had no part in the LB fiasco..and clearly stated my position on it....http://bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5659&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You may also note I didnt fly much on GW5.....for basicly the same reason I didnt fly rom on LB....I suck at it...it's no fun for me...and I'd rather have my teeth pulled without novacain than fly rommy...

I'm not trying to start another flame fest...I'm trying to set the record straight...I will remind everyone that trades for KCW were legal and agreed upon under the rules....

The problem wasnt back room deals (trades)...it was a problem with the result of those back room deals...

This BS goes back to when some of us didnt even play or where to busy testing to spend time on servers in fleets......but still it continues...

Frankly...we dont have the luxury to keep this up anymore or we'll end up with no players at all...

What ever happened to just having fun?....why the petty BS server after server (from both sides)?

Can we try...for love of game...to just play the next server and have fun?

Please?

[GDA-Agave]

The draft was fine, it was the back room dealings and trades that tanked the server.

Hmmmmm.   Does anyone else get the feeling that J'inn had a lot to do with this?   Who else has made a profession of "back room dealings and trades" than the evil and greedy J'inn-mizer.   A lawyer in D.C. no less.   Land of back room dealings and trades.   I knew there was always a funny smell to that town.   Must be all cigar smoke and liquor stains.      


Agave

[Capt Jeff]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

I know I'll be accused of trying to start trouble...too bad..

But what killed KCW was going from a voluntary 3 way sign up to a manditory draft as a direct result of dislike of actions on a previous server...

There was no problem with the logical desire for one faction in the 3 way to be defending the empire proper in a civil war....many Klingon regulars wanted to defend the empire...even if it meant being double teamed and losing...

Again...all logical and no problem....at the time...

Until many klingon regulars jumped rommy instead of flying allied to the feds on litter box...

As a direct responce to those actions...KCW then became a manditory draft...and the desires of people who thought the server was going to be set up as previously discussed and agreed upon where thrown out the window...

And I quote:

'And to think that I contacted Hooch and offered the 1AF to side with the KBF on the KCW server because I was afraid of a numbers imbalance for them.

I think the 1AF will steer clear from now on.

And I don't want to hear no "we just wanted to fly another race" crap. What a load.

And BTW....the Klingon Civil War server will be 100% draft. I promise that."

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

And when it became clear that many klink regs would end up on one team again...the plug got pulled...and KCW crashed on the rocks...

No one is more dissapointed than I am....I have been waiting my whole online time waiting for just such a server...just as I have waiting for Mirror mirror...

I had no part in the LB fiasco..and clearly stated my position on it....http://bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5659&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You may also note I didnt fly much on GW5.....for basicly the same reason I didnt fly rom on LB....I suck at it...it's no fun for me...and I'd rather have my teeth pulled without novacain than fly rommy...

I'm not trying to start another flame fest...I'm trying to set the record straight...I will remind everyone that trades for KCW were legal and agreed upon under the rules....

The problem wasnt back room deals (trades)...it was a problem with the result of those back room deals...

This BS goes back to when some of us didnt even play or where to busy testing to spend time on servers in fleets......but still it continues...

Frankly...we dont have the luxury to keep this up anymore or we'll end up with no players at all...

What ever happened to just having fun?....why the petty BS server after server (from both sides)?

Can we try...for love of game...to just play the next server and have fun?

Please?

As the person being quoted here, I almost feel like I should respond.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

[Hexx]

Look
1) You all suck
2) I don't.

That's really all you need to know about the D2.
Who cares what happened some time ago.
Unless it concerns me, it's of no relevance.

[FPF-DieHard]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

I wouldn't go that far, I think "unsportsmanlike" is better than cheating.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

I wouldn't go that far, I think "unsportsmanlike" is better than cheating.

Call it circumventing the rules and not holding true to your word. To me that is cheating and lying, guess you NJ types are just a bit more polished in your language.

[Hexx]

Maybe if I just paid for EVERYONE's subscription to EVE this would work out better


KCW died along time ago you dumbasses, and it died from stupidies such as this.
Lets all leave it there.
(Until I resurrect it for KCW2 )

[Kroma BaSyl]

Maybe if I just paid for EVERYONE's subscription to EVE this would work out better


KCW died along time ago you dumbasses, and it died from stupidies such as this.
Lets all leave it there.
(Until I resurrect it for KCW2 )

Unless you were kept completely in the dark about it from your partner in crime, it died because of your and your cohorts missdeeds. I drafted in good faith, which can't be said of the other 2 teams. That is a fact, and that is what killed KCW and drove the last of the SSCF from the D2.

[Hexx]

Maybe if I just paid for EVERYONE's subscription to EVE this would work out better


KCW died along time ago you dumbasses, and it died from stupidies such as this.
Lets all leave it there.
(Until I resurrect it for KCW2 )

Unless you were kept completely in the dark about it from your partner in crime, it died because of your and your cohorts missdeeds. I drafted in good faith, which can't be said of the other 2 teams. That is a fact, and that is what killed KCW and drove the last of the SSCF from the D2.

In all honesty I knew it was happening, but thought everything had been arranged and was OK with everyone.
And to be perfectly honest (and dangerously expletive) by that time I didn't care who the f*ck I flew with or against, as long as I got to fly.
As it happened people felt differently and left.
It Happened
It Sucked
If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

[Kroma BaSyl]

If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

I thought this too, but I now see that the same individuals and attitudes that lead to that situation are the same individuals and attitudes that have sucked the fun out of GW5. It is unlikely that I will expend any more effort or good faith  to see it pissed away and abused.

[FPF-DieHard]

If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

I thought this too, but I now see that the same individuals and attitudes that lead to that situation are the same individuals and attitudes that have sucked the fun out of GW5. It is unlikely that I will expend any more effort or good faith  to see it pissed away and abused.

You'll still kill Hexx though, right?

[Kroma BaSyl]

If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

I thought this too, but I now see that the same individuals and attitudes that lead to that situation are the same individuals and attitudes that have sucked the fun out of GW5. It is unlikely that I will expend any more effort or good faith  to see it pissed away and abused.

You'll still kill Hexx though, right?

Quite possibly the only thing short of a Cabin Boy convention on Ghdar that could get me to log back into GW5.

[FPF-DieHard]

So say, what if Hexx were assigned a DN?

[KBF-Crim]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

Cart before the horse...There was no draft until the LB problem...

In the same vien...you aggreed to trading between the houses....trading wasnt cheating my any means and you know that...

And Yes Jeff...feel free to respond...I made every effort to use complete context and linked the whole thread...I'm not trying to pick on you...But you post is pretty damn clear....cause and effect.

In fact...we discussed this in person at length when I came up and met Mog at your place...I left with the sence that indeed things would go as previously planned and agreed upon and was really looking forward to defending the empire proper from the usurping houses....even though doing so was almost certain defeat against two other teams...

We all knew that from the start...

I took your posting quite personally...especially in light of the fact I had taken no part in LB...and publicly stated so...

IMHO...being upset over LB was one thing.... changing the set up to a 100% draft because of actions on LB (viewed as as punishment) was another...

I have no quarrel with you kroma or anyone else....

But there is no denial that the string of "gotcha" runs rampent from one server to the nextthe problems of  LB ,KCW and SGO  and yes...even GW5 now...are just symptoms of the same old grudges and arguements and stereotypes....and it's about time it should end.

We've gotten to the point where every strategic move is subterfuge, and any valid complaint whining, any group position a conspiracy...

I'm tired of restrictions, too many rules , too many arguements, and not enough fun...

Again...I'm not trying to piss anyone off....just trying to be honest in my opion.

My position remains today as it was then...

I really want to play KCW....and I'd like to defend the empire proper while doing so...

I wish LB had never happened.....and even though I took no part in it...I was punished like the rest.....and the server I waited so long to play on was ripped from my grasp...

And that.... in and of itself....sucks.

[FPF-DieHard]

I wish LB had never happened.....and even though I took no part in it...I was punished like the rest.....and the server I waited so long to play on was ripped from my grasp...

And that.... in and of itself....sucks.

So I guess we can all agree that this is Fluf's fault?   

[Kroma BaSyl]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

Cart before the horse...There was no draft until the LB problem...

In the same vien...you aggreed to trading between the houses....trading wasnt cheating my any means and you know that...

What does LB have to do with leaders and players agreeing to the rules as they were finalized and presenting with, with regard to the draft for KCW? Absolutely nothing. The rules weren't changed, they were still being discussed and then Hooch decided to do it his way. You then had the opportunity to not play by not submitting to the draft. You didn't though, you signed up for it, you just had no intention of keeping your word or at least your leaders didn't, you would have to tell me how far the collusion went or how widely it was known within the KBF. I would like to think not very many were aware of what had transpired as I think most KBF pilots are honorable and ethical people.

It isn't the same vien...the 2 things are completely different. I am not calling trading cheating, I am calling pre-draft rigging cheating. Maybe you are simply unaware of what actually occurred.

[KBF-Crim]

I wish LB had never happened.....and even though I took no part in it...I was punished like the rest.....and the server I waited so long to play on was ripped from my grasp...

And that.... in and of itself....sucks.

So I guess we can all agree that this is Fluf's fault?   

Agreed

[TheJudge]

Look
1) You all suck
2) I don't.

That's really all you need to know about the D2.
Who cares what happened some time ago.
Unless it concerns me, it's of no relevance.

Now, Hexx, everyone knows I suck better than you do...I've got a LOT more experience.

[KBF-Crim]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

Cart before the horse...There was no draft until the LB problem...

In the same vien...you aggreed to trading between the houses....trading wasnt cheating my any means and you know that...

What does LB have to do with leaders and players agreeing to the rules as they were finalized and presenting with, with regard to the draft for KCW?

Ok...so the rules were finallized...

Absolutely nothing. The rules weren't changed, they were still being discussed and then Hooch decided to do it his way.

Ok...so the rules were not in fact finalized....

You then had the opportunity to not play by not submitting to the draft. You didn't though, you signed up for it, you just had no intention of keeping your word or at least your leaders didn't, you would have to tell me how far the collusion went or how widely it was known within the KBF. I would like to think not very many were aware of what had transpired as I think most KBF pilots are honorable and ethical people.

Not keeping my word?....collusion?

I signed up under the thread as intended...in order to play...it was a requirement....

Either trades were legal or they were not....no two ways about it...

It isn't the same vien...the 2 things are completely different. I am not calling trading cheating, I am calling pre-draft rigging cheating. Maybe you are simply unaware of what actually occurred.

Well....then what did LB have to do with KCW at all?....why go 100% draft as a result of LB as Jeff said?

I'm aware there was going originally to be a draft....then there wasnt....then a partial draft....then a full draft...

What I'm saying is...this didnt happen in a vacume....there is clear cause and effect...

The end effect being to give many players the collective finger....wether they actually did anything wrong or not...

Again...I have no quarrel with you...so please dont infer that I am cheater....or do not keep my word.