Topic: OK her is the deal on GW5 contining!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kroma BaSyl]

DH is going to bring it back up.

1) Feds can ignore LOS inorder to create a resupply in original allied space (i.e. no flipping original Rom bases or planets fed should the alliance make any such gains).

2) OOB rules still apply, as do all other rules.

3) try to have fun, and novel idea.

4) if it ain't fun or you feel this is unfair, don't play, I wouldn't want anyone to feel that they are wasting their time on a game that isn't fun. If you decide not to play, Jinn has agreed to refund your money, simply PM him your checking account number and the funds will be withd....errrr....depostied.

5) whomever kills Butcher (Alliance or Coalitin) gets a little R&R from Cabin Boy duty.

6) Be sure to tell Kroma how pretty he is if you should draft him into a mission. THIS IS A NON-NEGOTIABLE TERM.

7) Give Hexx a DN, and make him fly on the front.

8 ) Be sure to tell Kroma how thin he looks if you should draft him in mission. THIS TOO IS A NON-NEGOTIABLE TERM.

9) Tell Nail he is a Bastard.

10) Continue to bump the HEXX GOES DOWN ON KROMA thread every chance you get.

XOXOXOXO
Kroma

[FPF-DieHard]

11.  Play nice or I will beat you to death with a shovel

PS.   I'm taking the night off (trust me, it's for the best).  I will be handle ship assigments and can be reached via PM. 

[Hexx]

Hey here's an idea

Wouldn't it have been cool to tell a ceratin someone this when he was asking on MSN ?
You know, so he didn't go post that it was likely over and look like an idiot to all the adoring coaliton fans he has..

And Kreug said he'd beat me to death with a shovell if I touched a DN so you can see my dilemna..

[FPF-DieHard]

Wouldn't it have been cool to tell a ceratin someone this when he was asking on MSN ?
You know, so he didn't go post that it was likely over and look like an idiot to all the adoring coaliton fans he has..

Now the method is revealed . . .

Bottom line, why mess with people's fun?   If you continue to find GW5 fun, play on it.   If you don't, don't fly and we'll see you next time.

Regardless, be nice.  If you find yourself frustrated or pissed off, sit the rest of it out so you don't get burnt.   

[Kroma BaSyl]

Hey here's an idea

Wouldn't it have been cool to tell a ceratin someone this when he was asking on MSN ?
You know, so he didn't go post that it was likely over and look like an idiot to all the adoring coaliton fans he has..

Actually this was the clincher for deciding to put it back up. You know the screw Hexx bonus factor.

And Kreug said he'd beat me to death with a shovell if I touched a DN so you can see my dilemna..

No I can't. Seems kosher to me.

[Hexx]

I ams so instituting a draft for Mirror² and killing you both..

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

draft sounds like a good idea...

[KBF-Nail]

NAIL IS A BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kroma BaSyl]

draft sounds like a good idea...

I hope he tries it. It will finally show him first hand what what we have been on about all day. The KCW draft was the biggest cluster I have ever witnessed in the dyna.

[Hexx]

draft sounds like a good idea...

I hope he tries it. It will finally show him first hand what what we have been on about all day. The KCW draft was the biggest cluster I have ever witnessed in the dyna.

Did I say everyone was going in the draft?
No

Did I say the draft wasn't going to be fixed?
No

Do try and keep up Kroma..

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

try a sign-up per race as d-3 has done, placing temporary caps on races until all others catch up. When balance is achieved, the race cap can be raised.

[Mazeppa]

draft sounds like a good idea...

I hope he tries it. It will finally show him first hand what what we have been on about all day. The KCW draft was the biggest cluster I have ever witnessed in the dyna.

I was an Deputy House leader under TraceyG (I cant believe I just typed that) and I thought the draft was going GREAT. 

[FPF-DieHard]

I was an Deputy House leader under TraceyG (I cant believe I just typed that) and I thought the draft was going GREAT. 

The draft was fine, it was the back room dealings and trades that tanked the server.

[Mog]

I was an Deputy House leader under TraceyG (I cant believe I just typed that) and I thought the draft was going GREAT. 

The draft was fine, it was the back room dealings and trades that tanked the server.

Absolutely.

This server (KCW) was one that I was really, really, really looking forward to. Major disappointment when it died.

[ShadowLord]

Well zeppa -- at least you were under TracyG...imagine if you were under KROMA..

Jeeze all of a sudden after I typed that --

 I got this mental picture of Brando in Apocalypse Now -- "The Horror,,The Horror"


Duck

[Father Ted]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

[FPF-DieHard]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

There is no place for that kind of behavior in this community any more.  Look at the fallout from the treaties of SGO4?

[Kroma BaSyl]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

Nope that is not correct. Any horse trading would have occurred AFTER the draft. What went wrong with the draft happened before the actual drafting of players.

[FPF-DieHard]

Nope that is not correct. Any horse trading would have occurred AFTER the draft. What went wrong with the draft happened before the actual drafting of players.

Besides people whining about not all being able to gang-bang one side, what went wrong with the draft?

[Kroma BaSyl]

Nope that is not correct. Any horse trading would have occurred AFTER the draft. What went wrong with the draft happened before the actual drafting of players.

Besides people whining about not all being able to gang-bang one side, what went wrong with the draft?

The same thing that went wrong with the Zimabwe election.

[KBF-Crim]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

I know I'll be accused of trying to start trouble...too bad..

But what killed KCW was going from a voluntary 3 way sign up to a manditory draft as a direct result of dislike of actions on a previous server...

There was no problem with the logical desire for one faction in the 3 way to be defending the empire proper in a civil war....many Klingon regulars wanted to defend the empire...even if it meant being double teamed and losing...

Again...all logical and no problem....at the time...

Until many klingon regulars jumped rommy instead of flying allied to the feds on litter box...

As a direct responce to those actions...KCW then became a manditory draft...and the desires of people who thought the server was going to be set up as previously discussed and agreed upon where thrown out the window...

And I quote:

'And to think that I contacted Hooch and offered the 1AF to side with the KBF on the KCW server because I was afraid of a numbers imbalance for them.

I think the 1AF will steer clear from now on.

And I don't want to hear no "we just wanted to fly another race" crap. What a load.

And BTW....the Klingon Civil War server will be 100% draft. I promise that."

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

And when it became clear that many klink regs would end up on one team again...the plug got pulled...and KCW crashed on the rocks...

No one is more dissapointed than I am....I have been waiting my whole online time waiting for just such a server...just as I have waiting for Mirror mirror...

I had no part in the LB fiasco..and clearly stated my position on it....http://bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5659&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You may also note I didnt fly much on GW5.....for basicly the same reason I didnt fly rom on LB....I suck at it...it's no fun for me...and I'd rather have my teeth pulled without novacain than fly rommy...

I'm not trying to start another flame fest...I'm trying to set the record straight...I will remind everyone that trades for KCW were legal and agreed upon under the rules....

The problem wasnt back room deals (trades)...it was a problem with the result of those back room deals...

This BS goes back to when some of us didnt even play or where to busy testing to spend time on servers in fleets......but still it continues...

Frankly...we dont have the luxury to keep this up anymore or we'll end up with no players at all...

What ever happened to just having fun?....why the petty BS server after server (from both sides)?

Can we try...for love of game...to just play the next server and have fun?

Please?

[GDA-Agave]

The draft was fine, it was the back room dealings and trades that tanked the server.

Hmmmmm.   Does anyone else get the feeling that J'inn had a lot to do with this?   Who else has made a profession of "back room dealings and trades" than the evil and greedy J'inn-mizer.   A lawyer in D.C. no less.   Land of back room dealings and trades.   I knew there was always a funny smell to that town.   Must be all cigar smoke and liquor stains.      


Agave

[Capt Jeff]

DH and Moggy are right, the backroom stuff and horsetrading killed KCW before it ever started.

I know I'll be accused of trying to start trouble...too bad..

But what killed KCW was going from a voluntary 3 way sign up to a manditory draft as a direct result of dislike of actions on a previous server...

There was no problem with the logical desire for one faction in the 3 way to be defending the empire proper in a civil war....many Klingon regulars wanted to defend the empire...even if it meant being double teamed and losing...

Again...all logical and no problem....at the time...

Until many klingon regulars jumped rommy instead of flying allied to the feds on litter box...

As a direct responce to those actions...KCW then became a manditory draft...and the desires of people who thought the server was going to be set up as previously discussed and agreed upon where thrown out the window...

And I quote:

'And to think that I contacted Hooch and offered the 1AF to side with the KBF on the KCW server because I was afraid of a numbers imbalance for them.

I think the 1AF will steer clear from now on.

And I don't want to hear no "we just wanted to fly another race" crap. What a load.

And BTW....the Klingon Civil War server will be 100% draft. I promise that."

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

And when it became clear that many klink regs would end up on one team again...the plug got pulled...and KCW crashed on the rocks...

No one is more dissapointed than I am....I have been waiting my whole online time waiting for just such a server...just as I have waiting for Mirror mirror...

I had no part in the LB fiasco..and clearly stated my position on it....http://bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5659&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

You may also note I didnt fly much on GW5.....for basicly the same reason I didnt fly rom on LB....I suck at it...it's no fun for me...and I'd rather have my teeth pulled without novacain than fly rommy...

I'm not trying to start another flame fest...I'm trying to set the record straight...I will remind everyone that trades for KCW were legal and agreed upon under the rules....

The problem wasnt back room deals (trades)...it was a problem with the result of those back room deals...

This BS goes back to when some of us didnt even play or where to busy testing to spend time on servers in fleets......but still it continues...

Frankly...we dont have the luxury to keep this up anymore or we'll end up with no players at all...

What ever happened to just having fun?....why the petty BS server after server (from both sides)?

Can we try...for love of game...to just play the next server and have fun?

Please?

As the person being quoted here, I almost feel like I should respond.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

[Hexx]

Look
1) You all suck
2) I don't.

That's really all you need to know about the D2.
Who cares what happened some time ago.
Unless it concerns me, it's of no relevance.

[FPF-DieHard]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

I wouldn't go that far, I think "unsportsmanlike" is better than cheating.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

I wouldn't go that far, I think "unsportsmanlike" is better than cheating.

Call it circumventing the rules and not holding true to your word. To me that is cheating and lying, guess you NJ types are just a bit more polished in your language.

[Hexx]

Maybe if I just paid for EVERYONE's subscription to EVE this would work out better


KCW died along time ago you dumbasses, and it died from stupidies such as this.
Lets all leave it there.
(Until I resurrect it for KCW2 )

[Kroma BaSyl]

Maybe if I just paid for EVERYONE's subscription to EVE this would work out better


KCW died along time ago you dumbasses, and it died from stupidies such as this.
Lets all leave it there.
(Until I resurrect it for KCW2 )

Unless you were kept completely in the dark about it from your partner in crime, it died because of your and your cohorts missdeeds. I drafted in good faith, which can't be said of the other 2 teams. That is a fact, and that is what killed KCW and drove the last of the SSCF from the D2.

[Hexx]

Maybe if I just paid for EVERYONE's subscription to EVE this would work out better


KCW died along time ago you dumbasses, and it died from stupidies such as this.
Lets all leave it there.
(Until I resurrect it for KCW2 )

Unless you were kept completely in the dark about it from your partner in crime, it died because of your and your cohorts missdeeds. I drafted in good faith, which can't be said of the other 2 teams. That is a fact, and that is what killed KCW and drove the last of the SSCF from the D2.

In all honesty I knew it was happening, but thought everything had been arranged and was OK with everyone.
And to be perfectly honest (and dangerously expletive) by that time I didn't care who the f*ck I flew with or against, as long as I got to fly.
As it happened people felt differently and left.
It Happened
It Sucked
If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

[Kroma BaSyl]

If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

I thought this too, but I now see that the same individuals and attitudes that lead to that situation are the same individuals and attitudes that have sucked the fun out of GW5. It is unlikely that I will expend any more effort or good faith  to see it pissed away and abused.

[FPF-DieHard]

If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

I thought this too, but I now see that the same individuals and attitudes that lead to that situation are the same individuals and attitudes that have sucked the fun out of GW5. It is unlikely that I will expend any more effort or good faith  to see it pissed away and abused.

You'll still kill Hexx though, right?

[Kroma BaSyl]

If everyone can let it go maybe we can actually get stuff up and running again.

I thought this too, but I now see that the same individuals and attitudes that lead to that situation are the same individuals and attitudes that have sucked the fun out of GW5. It is unlikely that I will expend any more effort or good faith  to see it pissed away and abused.

You'll still kill Hexx though, right?

Quite possibly the only thing short of a Cabin Boy convention on Ghdar that could get me to log back into GW5.

[FPF-DieHard]

So say, what if Hexx were assigned a DN?

[KBF-Crim]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

Cart before the horse...There was no draft until the LB problem...

In the same vien...you aggreed to trading between the houses....trading wasnt cheating my any means and you know that...

And Yes Jeff...feel free to respond...I made every effort to use complete context and linked the whole thread...I'm not trying to pick on you...But you post is pretty damn clear....cause and effect.

In fact...we discussed this in person at length when I came up and met Mog at your place...I left with the sence that indeed things would go as previously planned and agreed upon and was really looking forward to defending the empire proper from the usurping houses....even though doing so was almost certain defeat against two other teams...

We all knew that from the start...

I took your posting quite personally...especially in light of the fact I had taken no part in LB...and publicly stated so...

IMHO...being upset over LB was one thing.... changing the set up to a 100% draft because of actions on LB (viewed as as punishment) was another...

I have no quarrel with you kroma or anyone else....

But there is no denial that the string of "gotcha" runs rampent from one server to the nextthe problems of  LB ,KCW and SGO  and yes...even GW5 now...are just symptoms of the same old grudges and arguements and stereotypes....and it's about time it should end.

We've gotten to the point where every strategic move is subterfuge, and any valid complaint whining, any group position a conspiracy...

I'm tired of restrictions, too many rules , too many arguements, and not enough fun...

Again...I'm not trying to piss anyone off....just trying to be honest in my opion.

My position remains today as it was then...

I really want to play KCW....and I'd like to defend the empire proper while doing so...

I wish LB had never happened.....and even though I took no part in it...I was punished like the rest.....and the server I waited so long to play on was ripped from my grasp...

And that.... in and of itself....sucks.

[FPF-DieHard]

I wish LB had never happened.....and even though I took no part in it...I was punished like the rest.....and the server I waited so long to play on was ripped from my grasp...

And that.... in and of itself....sucks.

So I guess we can all agree that this is Fluf's fault?   

[Kroma BaSyl]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

Cart before the horse...There was no draft until the LB problem...

In the same vien...you aggreed to trading between the houses....trading wasnt cheating my any means and you know that...

What does LB have to do with leaders and players agreeing to the rules as they were finalized and presenting with, with regard to the draft for KCW? Absolutely nothing. The rules weren't changed, they were still being discussed and then Hooch decided to do it his way. You then had the opportunity to not play by not submitting to the draft. You didn't though, you signed up for it, you just had no intention of keeping your word or at least your leaders didn't, you would have to tell me how far the collusion went or how widely it was known within the KBF. I would like to think not very many were aware of what had transpired as I think most KBF pilots are honorable and ethical people.

It isn't the same vien...the 2 things are completely different. I am not calling trading cheating, I am calling pre-draft rigging cheating. Maybe you are simply unaware of what actually occurred.

[KBF-Crim]

I wish LB had never happened.....and even though I took no part in it...I was punished like the rest.....and the server I waited so long to play on was ripped from my grasp...

And that.... in and of itself....sucks.

So I guess we can all agree that this is Fluf's fault?   

Agreed

[TheJudge]

Look
1) You all suck
2) I don't.

That's really all you need to know about the D2.
Who cares what happened some time ago.
Unless it concerns me, it's of no relevance.

Now, Hexx, everyone knows I suck better than you do...I've got a LOT more experience.

[KBF-Crim]

The back room crap was a result of this....not the other way around...

You can rationalize cheating all you want, but the fact remains your leadership ultimately agreed to abide by a draft, then surreptitiously attempted to collude and rig the draft. It had NOTHING to do with post draft trading. If you were opposed to the ultimate decision to submit to the draft then you and your leadership shouldn't have entered your names into the draft pool.

For the record I supported allowing KBF to form their own team, and then would have been happy with the remaining 2 teams drafting the rest of the players. However, once we were all committed to the draft any pre-draft rigging was cheating plain and simple.

Cart before the horse...There was no draft until the LB problem...

In the same vien...you aggreed to trading between the houses....trading wasnt cheating my any means and you know that...

What does LB have to do with leaders and players agreeing to the rules as they were finalized and presenting with, with regard to the draft for KCW?

Ok...so the rules were finallized...

Absolutely nothing. The rules weren't changed, they were still being discussed and then Hooch decided to do it his way.

Ok...so the rules were not in fact finalized....

You then had the opportunity to not play by not submitting to the draft. You didn't though, you signed up for it, you just had no intention of keeping your word or at least your leaders didn't, you would have to tell me how far the collusion went or how widely it was known within the KBF. I would like to think not very many were aware of what had transpired as I think most KBF pilots are honorable and ethical people.

Not keeping my word?....collusion?

I signed up under the thread as intended...in order to play...it was a requirement....

Either trades were legal or they were not....no two ways about it...

It isn't the same vien...the 2 things are completely different. I am not calling trading cheating, I am calling pre-draft rigging cheating. Maybe you are simply unaware of what actually occurred.

Well....then what did LB have to do with KCW at all?....why go 100% draft as a result of LB as Jeff said?

I'm aware there was going originally to be a draft....then there wasnt....then a partial draft....then a full draft...

What I'm saying is...this didnt happen in a vacume....there is clear cause and effect...

The end effect being to give many players the collective finger....wether they actually did anything wrong or not...

Again...I have no quarrel with you...so please dont infer that I am cheater....or do not keep my word.

[Kroma BaSyl]

What does LB have to do with leaders and players agreeing to the rules as they were finalized and presenting with, with regard to the draft for KCW?

Ok...so the rules were finallized...

Absolutely nothing. The rules weren't changed, they were still being discussed and then Hooch decided to do it his way.

Ok...so the rules were not in fact finalized....

Are you being deliberately obtuse?  When Hooch decided to go with the draft afterall, it was BEFORE anyone signed up for the server. Thus at that point in time the rules were still a work in progress, just because it was being considered to allow the KBF to field a team of their own up until that time doesn't mean any "mid-server" rules change occurred. At that point, BEFORE anyone signed up for the server Hooch decided to stick to his original plan of going with a straight draft. The KBF obviously disagreed with that decision, yet still signed up for the server under the condition of submitting to a full draft.

When Hooch announced his decision and created a draft sign up thread the rules regarding the server sign up and draft were finalized.

Do you understand now?

Not keeping my word?....collusion?

I signed up under the thread as intended...in order to play...it was a requirement....

Either trades were legal or they were not....no two ways about it...

Trades were allowed. Trades never even occurred. Because 2 of the three teams decided to circumvent the draft and rig it by colluding pre-draft. It even went as far as a team captian attempting to coerce Jinn into revealing the means of the draft mechanics and asking him to advise as to the best way to circumvent it so as to assure that the admins (Hooch's) intention of a full draft was not respected.

How you ican nterpret these actions as having anything to do with potential post draft trading (which never even occurred) is beyond comprehension.

Well....then what did LB have to do with KCW at all?....why go 100% draft as a result of LB as Jeff said?

I'm aware there was going originally to be a draft....then there wasnt....then a partial draft....then a full draft...

What I'm saying is...this didnt happen in a vacume....there is clear cause and effect...

The end effect being to give many players the collective finger....wether they actually did anything wrong or not...

Again...I have no quarrel with you...so please dont infer that I am cheater....or do not keep my word.

Ok first I will apologise, as didn't mean you personally were involved in the cheating. I used the word "you" inclusively, but really meant just the race leaders involved with the pre-draft collusion and cohesion. I have no reason to believe any KBF or other player had anything to do with it. You seemed to be at least partially aware of what was attempted though, so I may have wrongly assumed you were either involved or condoned the cheating.

As to giving the players the finger, it just doesn't hold water. It was Hooch's server, Hooch's effort, he made the final decision as to the conditions. He made those public knowledge to the players before they signed up on the thread for the draft. If they didn't want to play under those conditions then they shouldn't have signed up.

The race leaders involved also understood the conditions, but instead of adhering to them attempted to circumvent the draft and create an all KBF team against the wishes and setup of the admin. And was an affront to all the players that signed up for the server with a full draft in good faith.

Any reference to Hooch's final decision on how to run his server having anything to do with LB, can be nothing more than rationalization for the cheating that then occurred, as those involved in the cheating, new the rules they ultimately agreed to abide by, yet didn't follow. They could have simply not played or volunteered to lead a team if they felt that Hooch had broken some promise to them, instead they took the dishonorable route of trying to rig it so they would get their way, and in doing so cheated on all the players that signed up for the draft and server under the FINAL conditions posted.

You are correct in there beng a clear cause and effect though. The cause is if certian race leaders don't get their way (and I am not just referring to coalition race leaders), then the effect is for them to cheat. You mention the back and forth on the draft decision, but seem to only latch onto the position you supported as the one that was taken away unfairly from player, but that wasn't even the original intent. It was a matter being discussed, and in the end not the one that won out. No rug was pulled out from anyones feet as at the time the FINAL decision on how to handle it was made no one had yet to even sign up for the server.

[FPF-Wanderer]

<sigh>

Ya wanna know why Hooch wanted a draft?  It had nothing to do with LB or punishment or spite.  Hooch wanted a draft so that players who normally flew on opposing sides (read Klinks and Feds) would be forced to fly together.  They could get to know each other a bit, have some fun on voice comms, wing together, and maybe, just maybe, the animus that has plagued this community for so very long might be lessened, if even only by a little.

Oh, the irony...

[Kroma BaSyl]

<sigh>

Ya wanna know why Hooch wanted a draft?  It had nothing to do with LB or punishment or spite.  Hooch wanted a draft so that players who normally flew on opposing sides (read Klinks and Feds) would be forced to fly together.  They could get to know each other a bit, have some fun on voice comms, wing together, and maybe, just maybe, the animus that has plagued this community for so very long might be lessened, if even only by a little.

Oh, the irony...

Absolutely true, this was the whole premise of the server originally, they will never believe it though as it takes the steam out of their hate.

And now by deliberately setting out to demoralize the few Alliance player that showed up and stuck it out against the odds in order to at least make the server somewhat fun and worth playing on, they have completed the task of driving off the last vestiges of anyone to play the game against. Oh well, it had to happen sometime. Well actually it didn't have to happen (Hooch realized this at least), but with such attitudes it was bound to.

[WarSears]

<sigh>

Ya wanna know why Hooch wanted a draft?  It had nothing to do with LB or punishment or spite.  Hooch wanted a draft so that players who normally flew on opposing sides (read Klinks and Feds) would be forced to fly together.  They could get to know each other a bit, have some fun on voice comms, wing together, and maybe, just maybe, the animus that has plagued this community for so very long might be lessened, if even only by a little.

Oh, the irony...

I have a hard time believing that when the SSCF flew Klingon on what ever server a long time ago they used there own Voice coms and wouldn't join ares.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I have a hard time believing that when the SSCF flew Klingon on what ever server a long time ago they used there own Voice coms and wouldn't join ares.

That is insane paranoia Sears. Hooch had publically posted this several times about his desire for the KCW server, and before any of the back and forth over whether to do a draft or not.

If you think Hooch was lying about this and had some other sinester reason for wanting a draft, please share it with us. What other possible rational would he have had for wanting a full draft originally on KCW, other than what he stated?

I find it hard to believe he put all the effort into the server, then said he wanted a draft to help bring the community together, all as some part of secrete plot to strike at the KBF. Even if Hooch were that vindictive, which he is not, he is hardly that subtle.

Instead it was the final olive branch from the last remaining large scale Alliance fleet thrown in their face. You are all still holding grudges against Feds long after they stopped caring about whatever it was you were mad at each other about. In fact I think the individuals you were actually the madest at had left the game years prior, but folks just can't put it behind them and move forward. Hooch attempted to do that himself, only to be rebuffed. I can't blame him for giving up and moving on, as I am rapidly coming to that same point over a game I love to play.

[Capt Jeff]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

[TheJudge]

SSCF almost always uses their own comms.  They did that on every SFC3 server I can remember, only occasionally joining the rest of us...

[KBF-Crim]

I have a hard time believing that when the SSCF flew Klingon on what ever server a long time ago they used there own Voice coms and wouldn't join ares.

That is insane paranoia Sears. Hooch had publically posted this several times about his desire for the KCW server, and before any of the back and forth over whether to do a draft or not.

If you think Hooch was lying about this and had some other sinester reason for wanting a draft, please share it with us. What other possible rational would he have had for wanting a full draft originally on KCW, other than what he stated?

I find it hard to believe he put all the effort into the server, then said he wanted a draft to help bring the community together, all as some part of secrete plot to strike at the KBF. Even if Hooch were that vindictive, which he is not, he is hardly that subtle.

Instead it was the final olive branch from the last remaining large scale Alliance fleet thrown in their face. You are all still holding grudges against Feds long after they stopped caring about whatever it was you were mad at each other about. In fact I think the individuals you were actually the madest at had left the game years prior, but folks just can't put it behind them and move forward. Hooch attempted to do that himself, only to be rebuffed. I can't blame him for giving up and moving on, as I am rapidly coming to that same point over a game I love to play.

Well...yes it was hoochies server...and like I said...yes...he was very nogotiable to the two on one..or even a partial draft...all through planning...

But he didnt make the post I referenced either...Jeff did...maybe it is my own perspective as to the meaning of it...but he said 100% draft...and that's exactly how things went down.....so I can only rightly assume it had something to do with it...

Also...as I said..I had a quite pleasant visit to Ann Arbor to meet Moggy Jeff and Mav and we actually discussed the topic for a while without any of that comming up......(left quite chinese eyed too) ....so I was pretty shocked to see Jeff's post....

You may also remember that the Klingon Mercinary Force reared it's lumpy head...from what I saw at least 7 pilots were ready to go zorro and fly mercinary anonymously for any[/b] house...but it was deemed by some in command that this act might in it self appear to be dishonorable in some way and twisted from the original intent...to allow a vehicle for klink regulars to do battle to the death with brothers and still remain guilt free...( I know the notion that blasting a former wingman to pieces is ok to many...but for some...it is not...)...

You may rightly assume that I was one of those KMF pilots.

So while I now rightly admit that I may not know all the inner workings of what happened....this bit of information should illustrate that you dont either...

Since this information was independant of KBF fleet business.....I felt I could rightfully share it with you...

IMHO...the only way a full 3 way draft will work is to be blind draw, random numbers...period....no trades...dont like the team your on?...dont play...

It's the only way that any one faction , or any individual, wont be able to claim bias in selection...

I would even go so far as to suggest that people sign up with psuedonyms and use one unified fleet tag per house to keep any past redress off the server...

Look..I'm just as guilty for bringing it up as anyone...but we really need to settle this crap....I'm tired of seeing three server old complaints used to complain about a server that isnt even up yet...

At some time...it's time for a complete break from the past...or we may never see our collective future...

[Mazeppa]

I was an Deputy House leader under TraceyG (I cant believe I just typed that) and I thought the draft was going GREAT. 

The draft was fine, it was the back room dealings and trades that tanked the server.

What specific back room dealings and trades tanked the server?  Shall we publish the inintial draft list and the list after the trades?  Might prove enlightening.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I was an Deputy House leader under TraceyG (I cant believe I just typed that) and I thought the draft was going GREAT. 

The draft was fine, it was the back room dealings and trades that tanked the server.

What specific back room dealings and trades tanked the server?  Shall we publish the inintial draft list and the list after the trades?  Might prove enlightening.

No trades were ever actually made. The initial draft lists are inlightening though as they show the improbablilty of the draft result without accounting for 2 teams colluding and cheating. Collusion that was later confirmed to me directly from the perpetrators, even with the rationalizations attached. I have saved all of those corospondence in a CYA file.

In stead of attempting to hide your actions why not just tell folks what you did as you were directly involved?

[WarSears]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition. About them flying against the Feds most of the time they were hitting meanless hexs and I never seen them on the front line.

[Julin Eurthyr]

You know, all this Alliance / Coalition stuff is fast surpassing the level of Hatred I put up with as a Red Sox fan in the Sox / Yankees rivalry.

Too bad this isn't a professional league, at least then we can force trades of highly disgruntled players...

On the other subject in this mess, KCW, I'll come forth with my involvement.  Hexx was, at the time, rubberstamping any decisions that I made, so anything that came out of Kinshaya was strictly my decision...

1.  Upon my selection as house leader, my initial draft order called for me to draft KBF aces first, then "generic aces", followed by the rest of the KBF, closing with my selections from the remainder of the pilot list.  This was decided because there was to be no fleet drafting at all, a process I volunteered to help bring about, if desired.

2.  When I was asked to help unite as much KBF as possible, I agreed, as the initial terms of the agreement looked proper (while I was losing the KBF, I believed that I would get enough "generic aces" to make up for it.)  and I was of a like mind to let the KBF get their wishes to fly as a fleet.  I amended the draft order to put all KBF pilots first, then the aces etc...  To this point, I had not discussed draft methodology etc. with anyone else outside of Hexx, who was still rubberstamping away.

3.  Upon receipt of the draft results, I was shocked to say the least.  Consider this post House Kinshaya's permission to release the initial draft results, I will not do so (if I even kept them cause I put this behind me) without permission of the remaining house leaders.

4.  I proceeded to begin preliminary talks on consumating the trade.  This took a while, which meant that there was at least 24-36 hours of trade talks where any "aggrieved houses" could complain.  I recall sitting on the completed deal for a little while, so there was at least 48 hours from draft release till I announced the finalized trade.  Continued silence at that point led me to believe the initial draft results were accepted by all.

5.  Within hours of the trade going off, the proverbial **** hit the fan.  I attempted to find a solution that would be agreeable to all, even revising the trade in such a manner to include all parties.  However, we could not find a solution that worked in a timeframe that could be considered reasonable to get a server launch, therefore the server was scrapped.

Kroma:  To this day, I don't understand about House Kinshaya's (and therefore my) "major involvement" in this grand conspiracy to rig the draft.  If you consider my accepting the offered deal and attempts to consumate the deal as the grand collusion, then please say so.  Otherwise, look to the draft results themselves to find the source of the conspiracy.  If I still have it, I'll send you a copy of the draft list I sent J'inn, to show you my draft order and allow you to compare what I got to what I asked for.  I did not send a single private message to anyone not involved in my house or the pre-draft trade until it was time to submit actual results, which, IIRC, were done by E-mail, not PM...

I'd rather this be washed under the bridge, letting the lessions learned become part of the D2's experiences so we can learn from our mistakes.  If we have to air it out publically to let a still festering sore become healed, then so be it.

[Kroma BaSyl]

If what you say is true Julin, then the other house leader lied to me, as I was told that they conspired with you on the secrete draft to coordinate your lists so as to make sure that your 2 teams aquired all KBF members out of the gate, thus allowing your teams to trade between yourselves inorder to insure the KBF end up on the same team.

Further more I was told first hand from the admin running the draft that the leader of the other house contacted him directly inquiring the best way to rig or manipulate the draft so as to assure this outcome.

For the record I believe that you Julin, thought you were doing little more than agreeing to trade excusively KBF to the other team and were more of a dup in this scheme than active participant in the seedier aspects of it.

The main lesson I learned from the experience was that certian individual in leadership positions, both Alliance and Coalition were wiling to do anything to circumvent the intent and letter of the admins rules and setup, if their personnal desires for how it should have been run were not followed.

So far I have heard the arguement from Crim that 2 teams arranging the draft ahead of time is equal somehow to POST-draft trading and that even if it was illegal it was justified because of something that occurred on another server. Thus I can only conclude that it is the position of certian KBF leaders and members that 2 wrongs make a right.

[FPF-DieHard]

This is un-resolvable.  Just accept it.  Too many morons will never forget about issues they had with people who don't even play the game anymore.

[Capt Jeff]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition.

They never chose to interact much with the Fed and alliance when they flew Fed.   There's no difference.   The point is that they offered the olive branch by playing Klingon, but because of other people not knowing how they handled their voice comm affairs, their gesture of good will went un-appreciated.

[WarSears]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition.

They never chose to interact much with the Fed and alliance when they flew Fed.   There's no difference.   The point is that they offered the olive branch by playing Klingon, but because of other people not knowing how they handled their voice comm affairs, their gesture of good will went un-appreciated.

I guess it wasn't when one of them forfits his way up the map to make sure the Fed Mirak treaty doesn't get broken.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition. About them flying against the Feds most of the time they were hitting meanless hexs and I never seen them on the front line.

Justfor the record I saw more SSCF on the front lines than any other group during IDSL, they were there and in numbers.  The only pilot I saw more than some of their members was Maverick.  It seems likely that they spent much of their time on the Kzinti/Hydran front thus anyone on the Federation/Gorn front might not have seen them as much.

[FPF-DieHard]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition.

They never chose to interact much with the Fed and alliance when they flew Fed.   There's no difference.   The point is that they offered the olive branch by playing Klingon, but because of other people not knowing how they handled their voice comm affairs, their gesture of good will went un-appreciated.

I guess it wasn't when one of them forfits his way up the map to make sure the Fed Mirak treaty doesn't get broken.

Dude, even if they poured sugar in your gas tank and raped you dog, why does it matter?  They don't play anymore

[Kroma BaSyl]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition.

They never chose to interact much with the Fed and alliance when they flew Fed.   There's no difference.   The point is that they offered the olive branch by playing Klingon, but because of other people not knowing how they handled their voice comm affairs, their gesture of good will went un-appreciated.

I guess it wasn't when one of them forfits his way up the map to make sure the Fed Mirak treaty doesn't get broken.

Dude, even if they poured sugar in your gas tank and raped you dog, why does it matter?  They don't play anymore

Because it helps to full the anomosity towards the "evil" Feds. It also helps to rationalise and justify continued poor behavior. A tit-for-tat arguement, unfortunatley directed at the wrong people.

The Alliance players that have shown up on the most recent servers had nothing to do with it, and shouldn't have been treated so shabably for trying to give at least a little good game, but it is easier to act unsportsman like if you villify your target. It isn't really necessary for the actual target to have actually done you a wrong for this type of rationalization to be effective and make the perpatrators feel their actions are justified though.

[WarSears]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition.

They never chose to interact much with the Fed and alliance when they flew Fed.   There's no difference.   The point is that they offered the olive branch by playing Klingon, but because of other people not knowing how they handled their voice comm affairs, their gesture of good will went un-appreciated.

I guess it wasn't when one of them forfits his way up the map to make sure the Fed Mirak treaty doesn't get broken.

Dude, even if they poured sugar in your gas tank and raped you dog, why does it matter?  They don't play anymore

Because it helps to full the anomosity towards the "evil" Feds. It also helps to rationalise and justify continued poor behavior. A tit-for-tat arguement, unfortunatley directed at the wrong people.

The Alliance players that have shown up on the most recent servers had nothing to do with it, and shouldn't have been treated so shabably for trying to give at least a little good game, but it is easier to act unsportsman like if you villify your target. It isn't really necessary for the actual target to have actually done you a wrong for this type of rationalization to be effective and make the perpatrators feel their actions are justified though.

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

[KBFLordKrueg]

WS,

when the SSCF was a large group, like they were for IDSL, they often were on their own voice comms.   This was their way no matter if they flew Fed or Klingon.

It was the mere FACT that they chose to fly against the federation and with the Klingons that should of been appreciated, not what comms they used as being on seperate voice comms was the norm for them.

I'm just stating a fact they chose not to interact whit the coallition.

They never chose to interact much with the Fed and alliance when they flew Fed.   There's no difference.   The point is that they offered the olive branch by playing Klingon, but because of other people not knowing how they handled their voice comm affairs, their gesture of good will went un-appreciated.

I guess it wasn't when one of them forfits his way up the map to make sure the Fed Mirak treaty doesn't get broken.

Dude, even if they poured sugar in your gas tank and raped you dog, why does it matter?  They don't play anymore

Because it helps to full the anomosity towards the "evil" Feds. It also helps to rationalise and justify continued poor behavior. A tit-for-tat arguement, unfortunatley directed at the wrong people.

The Alliance players that have shown up on the most recent servers had nothing to do with it, and shouldn't have been treated so shabably for trying to give at least a little good game, but it is easier to act unsportsman like if you villify your target. It isn't really necessary for the actual target to have actually done you a wrong for this type of rationalization to be effective and make the perpatrators feel their actions are justified though.

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

Well put, WS. 

[FPF-DieHard]

 . .  I cant think of one Fed I dislike.  . . .

That just means I need to try harder 

[Kroma BaSyl]

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

But you didn't show any such thing. All you showed was that you had allowed your bias against the SSCF to allow you to assume, that a thing as innocent as wanting to use their own voice comms as had been their policy even within the Alliance camp, was some attempt to spite you.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

When I played baseball we usually had a plan or strategy. If it worked spectatularly, and the game was then nolonger in question we didn't continue to run up the score tin order to demoralize the opponent into quiting the game. I was taught that such actions were unsportsman like and dishonorable.

Your leader and one of your players without any baiting from me posted that this was the intent with taking all of Fed space. To demoralize the Alliance players and to convince them to give up. These were their words, not mine. I didn't trick them into admitting to this or take those statements out of context.

I have no problem with the numbers difference or losing the campaign. I do have a problem with players trying to make other players feel bad and quiet the game as there are to few left. Your RM and another player confirmed that this was the intent. What other conclusion can be drawn, other than that of unsportsman like behavior?

If you dislike what I post I can only assume you are feeling guilty about your own actions and the actions of your team, because their intentions were posted in their own words and are crystal clear, all I have done is point them out and stated my opinion of such behavior.

[KBF-Crim]

 

[WarSears]

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

But you didn't show any such thing. All you showed was that you had allowed your bias against the SSCF to allow you to assume, that a thing as innocent as wanting to use their own voice comms as had been their policy even within the Alliance camp, was some attempt to spite you.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

When I played baseball we usually had a plan or strategy. If it worked spectatularly, and the game was then nolonger in question we didn't continue to run up the score tin order to demoralize the opponent into quiting the game. I was taught that such actions were unsportsman like and dishonorable.

Your leader and one of your players without any baiting from me posted that this was the intent with taking all of Fed space. To demoralize the Alliance players and to convince them to give up. These were their words, not mine. I didn't trick them into admitting to this or take those statements out of context.

I have no problem with the numbers difference or losing the campaign. I do have a problem with players trying to make other players feel bad and quiet the game as there are to few left. Your RM and another player confirmed that this was the intent. What other conclusion can be drawn, other than that of unsportsman like behavior?

If you dislike what I post I can only assume you are feeling guilty about your own actions and the actions of your team, because their intentions were posted in their own words and are crystal clear, all I have done is point them out and stated my opinion of such behavior.

Again I point out that they had there chance by interacting with the coalition they chose to keep to there self nothing wrong with that. The SSCF has never shown me that they wanted to bring the D2  community together.

I don't feel guilty about anything I do however feel bad about the the way some people reacted to us taking the last of Fed space. I feel bad that Kruge chose to use the word demoralize I do how ever believe that it was taken way to serious.

BTW
Kroma you know you love this stuff you told me your self so just admit it. So go ahead flame away but by doing so you just make more people feel bad.

[Capt Jeff]

WS...

You know that Moggy is coming for another visit this summer?

So, of course you'll have to come say hi. 

We'll laugh about this over a bottle of Blood wine OK?   

[WarSears]

WS...

You know that Moggy is coming for another visit this summer?

So, of course you'll have to come say hi. 

We'll laugh about this over a bottle of Blood wine OK?   

I cant wait. 

[Kroma BaSyl]

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

But you didn't show any such thing. All you showed was that you had allowed your bias against the SSCF to allow you to assume, that a thing as innocent as wanting to use their own voice comms as had been their policy even within the Alliance camp, was some attempt to spite you.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

When I played baseball we usually had a plan or strategy. If it worked spectatularly, and the game was then nolonger in question we didn't continue to run up the score tin order to demoralize the opponent into quiting the game. I was taught that such actions were unsportsman like and dishonorable.

Your leader and one of your players without any baiting from me posted that this was the intent with taking all of Fed space. To demoralize the Alliance players and to convince them to give up. These were their words, not mine. I didn't trick them into admitting to this or take those statements out of context.

I have no problem with the numbers difference or losing the campaign. I do have a problem with players trying to make other players feel bad and quiet the game as there are to few left. Your RM and another player confirmed that this was the intent. What other conclusion can be drawn, other than that of unsportsman like behavior?

If you dislike what I post I can only assume you are feeling guilty about your own actions and the actions of your team, because their intentions were posted in their own words and are crystal clear, all I have done is point them out and stated my opinion of such behavior.

Again I point out that they had there chance by interacting with the coalition they chose to keep to there self nothing wrong with that. The SSCF has never shown me that they wanted to bring the D2  community together.

I don't feel guilty about anything I do however feel bad about the the way some people reacted to us taking the last of Fed space. I feel bad that Kruge chose to use the word demoralize I do how ever believe that it was taken way to serious.

BTW
Kroma you know you love this stuff you told me your self so just admit it. So go ahead flame away but by doing so you just make more people feel bad.

All just a bunch of rationalizations and no accountability for your own actions. In stead people project their own dark feeling on others and then claim that they were wronged. Some things never change.

I will admit it is probably more stupid short sightedness than premeditated malice. At least I would like to think so.

I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad, maybe if they do they will learn to behave better in the future.

[WarSears]

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

But you didn't show any such thing. All you showed was that you had allowed your bias against the SSCF to allow you to assume, that a thing as innocent as wanting to use their own voice comms as had been their policy even within the Alliance camp, was some attempt to spite you.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

When I played baseball we usually had a plan or strategy. If it worked spectatularly, and the game was then nolonger in question we didn't continue to run up the score tin order to demoralize the opponent into quiting the game. I was taught that such actions were unsportsman like and dishonorable.

Your leader and one of your players without any baiting from me posted that this was the intent with taking all of Fed space. To demoralize the Alliance players and to convince them to give up. These were their words, not mine. I didn't trick them into admitting to this or take those statements out of context.

I have no problem with the numbers difference or losing the campaign. I do have a problem with players trying to make other players feel bad and quiet the game as there are to few left. Your RM and another player confirmed that this was the intent. What other conclusion can be drawn, other than that of unsportsman like behavior?

If you dislike what I post I can only assume you are feeling guilty about your own actions and the actions of your team, because their intentions were posted in their own words and are crystal clear, all I have done is point them out and stated my opinion of such behavior.

Again I point out that they had there chance by interacting with the coalition they chose to keep to there self nothing wrong with that. The SSCF has never shown me that they wanted to bring the D2  community together.

I don't feel guilty about anything I do however feel bad about the the way some people reacted to us taking the last of Fed space. I feel bad that Kruge chose to use the word demoralize I do how ever believe that it was taken way to serious.

BTW
Kroma you know you love this stuff you told me your self so just admit it. So go ahead flame away but by doing so you just make more people feel bad.

All just a bunch of rationalizations and no accountability for your own actions. In stead people project their own dark feeling on others and then claim that they were wronged. Some things never change.

I will admit it is probably more stupid short sightedness than premeditated malice. At least I would like to think so.

I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad, maybe if they do they will learn to behave better in the future.

I knew you couldn't resist. I said this once and ill say it again some people need to look in the mirror.
go ahead and put what ever kind spin on this you want me and you both know its for you personal amusement.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

But you didn't show any such thing. All you showed was that you had allowed your bias against the SSCF to allow you to assume, that a thing as innocent as wanting to use their own voice comms as had been their policy even within the Alliance camp, was some attempt to spite you.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

When I played baseball we usually had a plan or strategy. If it worked spectatularly, and the game was then nolonger in question we didn't continue to run up the score tin order to demoralize the opponent into quiting the game. I was taught that such actions were unsportsman like and dishonorable.

Your leader and one of your players without any baiting from me posted that this was the intent with taking all of Fed space. To demoralize the Alliance players and to convince them to give up. These were their words, not mine. I didn't trick them into admitting to this or take those statements out of context.

I have no problem with the numbers difference or losing the campaign. I do have a problem with players trying to make other players feel bad and quiet the game as there are to few left. Your RM and another player confirmed that this was the intent. What other conclusion can be drawn, other than that of unsportsman like behavior?

If you dislike what I post I can only assume you are feeling guilty about your own actions and the actions of your team, because their intentions were posted in their own words and are crystal clear, all I have done is point them out and stated my opinion of such behavior.

Again I point out that they had there chance by interacting with the coalition they chose to keep to there self nothing wrong with that. The SSCF has never shown me that they wanted to bring the D2  community together.

I don't feel guilty about anything I do however feel bad about the the way some people reacted to us taking the last of Fed space. I feel bad that Kruge chose to use the word demoralize I do how ever believe that it was taken way to serious.

BTW
Kroma you know you love this stuff you told me your self so just admit it. So go ahead flame away but by doing so you just make more people feel bad.

All just a bunch of rationalizations and no accountability for your own actions. In stead people project their own dark feeling on others and then claim that they were wronged. Some things never change.

I will admit it is probably more stupid short sightedness than premeditated malice. At least I would like to think so.

I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad, maybe if they do they will learn to behave better in the future.

I knew you couldn't resist. I said this once and ill say it again some people need to look in the mirror.
go ahead and put what ever kind spin on this you want me and you both know its for you personal amusement.

Whatever Sears, ironic you should bring up looking in the mirror and spin. You have attempted to take 2 different gestures of friendship by the SSCF and tried to spin them as some sort slights, so as to rationalize the poor behavior that those olive branches were met with. I assume it makes you feel better about your own poor behavior and dark feelings to think that there must have been alterior motives to them. Tell me when the SSFC took the first step and played Klingon on IDSL, did you take the second and go over to their voice comms to welcome them? Or did you just assume that because they used their own comms they were being arrogant and standoffish?

[WarSears]

I brought this up because you said that Hooch only wanted to bring the D2 community closer. I'm just showing that they had there chance and took a pass.

But you didn't show any such thing. All you showed was that you had allowed your bias against the SSCF to allow you to assume, that a thing as innocent as wanting to use their own voice comms as had been their policy even within the Alliance camp, was some attempt to spite you.

About vilifying the Feds thats got to be a joke I cant think of one Fed I dislike. I can tell you I dislike the way you try to bate people in, and I dislike some of the post about unsportsmanship dishonorable acts just because we had a plan to take the Feds out of GW5 and it worked betten than we thought.

When I played baseball we usually had a plan or strategy. If it worked spectatularly, and the game was then nolonger in question we didn't continue to run up the score tin order to demoralize the opponent into quiting the game. I was taught that such actions were unsportsman like and dishonorable.

Your leader and one of your players without any baiting from me posted that this was the intent with taking all of Fed space. To demoralize the Alliance players and to convince them to give up. These were their words, not mine. I didn't trick them into admitting to this or take those statements out of context.

I have no problem with the numbers difference or losing the campaign. I do have a problem with players trying to make other players feel bad and quiet the game as there are to few left. Your RM and another player confirmed that this was the intent. What other conclusion can be drawn, other than that of unsportsman like behavior?

If you dislike what I post I can only assume you are feeling guilty about your own actions and the actions of your team, because their intentions were posted in their own words and are crystal clear, all I have done is point them out and stated my opinion of such behavior.

Again I point out that they had there chance by interacting with the coalition they chose to keep to there self nothing wrong with that. The SSCF has never shown me that they wanted to bring the D2  community together.

I don't feel guilty about anything I do however feel bad about the the way some people reacted to us taking the last of Fed space. I feel bad that Kruge chose to use the word demoralize I do how ever believe that it was taken way to serious.

BTW
Kroma you know you love this stuff you told me your self so just admit it. So go ahead flame away but by doing so you just make more people feel bad.

All just a bunch of rationalizations and no accountability for your own actions. In stead people project their own dark feeling on others and then claim that they were wronged. Some things never change.

I will admit it is probably more stupid short sightedness than premeditated malice. At least I would like to think so.

I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad, maybe if they do they will learn to behave better in the future.

I knew you couldn't resist. I said this once and ill say it again some people need to look in the mirror.
go ahead and put what ever kind spin on this you want me and you both know its for you personal amusement.

Whatever Sears, ironic you should bring up looking in the mirror and spin. You have attempted to take 2 different gestures of friendship by the SSCF and tried to spin them as some sort slights, so as to rationalize the poor behavior that those olive branches were met with. I assume it makes you feel better about your own poor behavior and dark feelings to think that there must have been alterior motives to them. Tell me when the SSFC took the first step and played Klingon on IDSL, did you take the second and go over to their voice comms to welcome them? Or did you just assume that because they used their own comms they were being arrogant and standoffish?

No Kroma I cant say that I did of corse they never gave us the info need it.

Now about poor behavior you have told me that I was insane paranoia
You have also said that I had anomosity towards the "evil" Feds
and then there is always I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad
If this isn't poor behavior I don't know what is.

BTW
I still think you should make that 2nd account we talked about so you can argue with your self intill you turn blue.

[KBF-Crim]

Are we done yet?

[WarSears]

Are we done yet?

No Kroma will have to get the last word in.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

          

[Kroma BaSyl]

No Kroma I cant say that I did of corse they never gave us the info need it.

Did you ask. Or just allow you anomosity to assume they wouldn't want to talk with you?

Now about poor behavior you have told me that I was insane paranoia
You have also said that I had anomosity towards the "evil" Feds
and then there is always I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad
If this isn't poor behavior I don't know what is.

Pointing out your poor behavior and parinoia, as displayed right here shows pretty clearly that you are still not capible of recognizing it. You see it in the innocent acts of others but not in yourself.

So far everything you have said is to justify why it was ok for you and your team to act the way you have and continue to do, without even denying or chanllengeing why your own actions were not actually poor behavior. You then turn and blame others for pointing out your behavior.

Fact is if you can't let go of the hate then nothing will change and the game will grind to a halt. Hope you realize it before it is to late.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

    

[WarSears]

No Kroma I cant say that I did of corse they never gave us the info need it.

Did you ask. Or just allow you anomosity to assume they wouldn't want to talk with you?

Now about poor behavior you have told me that I was insane paranoia
You have also said that I had anomosity towards the "evil" Feds
and then there is always I do however hope that people that act this way feel bad
If this isn't poor behavior I don't know what is.

Pointing out your poor behavior and parinoia, as displayed right here shows pretty clearly that you are still not capible of recognizing it. You see it in the innocent acts of others but not in yourself.

So far everything you have said is to justify why it was ok for you and your team to act the way you have and continue to do, without even denying or chanllengeing why your own actions were not actually poor behavior. You then turn and blame others for pointing out your behavior.

Fact is if you can't let go of the hate then nothing will change and the game will grind to a halt. Hope you realize it before it is to late.

The only reason I even brought the SSCF in to this was because you were saying that Hooch was try to breing the D2 community together. I stated the facts why I dident belive this to be true and all  you do is call me name and put your spin on it.

You say that I cant let go of the hate I find that kind of funny I heat no one. Tell me Kroma what did me and my team do that was so bad. Was it takeing out the Feds That was are goal  to take out the side we thought could hurt us the most.

I'm going to quote part of a post LordKruge made in the KBF forums.

Real Empires did not fall, no one really died, no real civilazations were wiped out. So why such real anger and harsh words? In the next game we may be soundly defeated. But, I won't be posting similiar statements like those that are being posted now. Instead, it'll be "GG", just like I posted after the last two servers where the Coalition was defeated. After all, it's a game and it made no difference in my real life.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Sears,  let me say a word about Hooch's intent.  I talked with him as he was developing the concept for KCW, and he did have a major goal of attempting to create more unity within the D2 community, particularly between the Federation and Klingon players with  this server.  If you were not aware of this, I see no reason to blame you for not being aware, no reason you should have been.  I do ask you to simply except my statement that this was true at face value.  Hopefully that will put an end to that issue.


As for the GW5 conquest of Federation space.  I think the fact that the Coalition was seen as "villians" in this instace by some is rather distressing.  They made a strategy, it worked and they stuck to it.  Perhaps it might have been more "sportsmanlike" if they had shifted to other targets at some point, however the bile they received for their actions of following their own strategy while playing 100% in accordance with the rules was undeserved .  If they had broken any rules set forth by the admins it would be one thing, but to play fairly and be given the level of criticism that they received and in the tones it was delivered was really the epitome of poor sportsmanship in my book.

[Corbomite]

Look, the simple fact is that some players play mainly for fun and camaraderie and others see it more as a challenge to be overcome/insurmountable odds/play to win what-have-you. This is not to say that seeking fun is not challenging and seeking challenge is not fun, they are just the types of players I have seen over the years and most people fall into these two categories.

The problem is that they are like oil and water; they will never mix well. The challenge seekers will invariably be more organized and determined to control the map and will see it as the normal course of play. The fun seekers just get on and hope someone has a plan so they can get out there and fly with their friends and blow some stuff up and see it as the normal course of play. When there were even numbers of these types on each side, there were no problems like we had on GW5 as the hardcore group would hold the fort when the fun team signed off.

Now it seems that one type has gravitated to one "side" and the other to the other "side". This means that when the fun seekers stop having fun and sign off, the challenge seekers eat up the map. They don't like that there is no one to fight, but their style of play demands that they keep pushing because in the past servers have been won by late influxes of enemy players after weeks of pathetic showings.

Now all this being valid, it still brings up the fact that after a point (when the last Fed planet was taken) the Feds were no threat to the Romulans (there was going to be no magical influx of late players to the Feds, it was pretty obvious), yet the Romulans kept on not only knocking the Feds down, but kicking them repeatedly in the groin, teeth and stomach, even after several pleas from Fed players to stop and just please let them play (may we please have the privilege of playing on your server sir?). All this was met with either indifference or derisiveness and then scorn when people actually gave up after being fairly beaten.

Now I was on the server last night and I have a question: There is one Fed planet deep in Gorn space. If the Romulan strategy demands that it be eliminated, why did I see no progress towards taking it away? There should be a tunnel 10 hexes deep by now into Gorn space to rid you of this serious danger to the empire. This is the plan isn't it and you are sticking to it right?

[Kroma BaSyl]

The only reason I even brought the SSCF in to this was because you were saying that Hooch was try to breing the D2 community together. I stated the facts why I dident belive this to be true and all  you do is call me name and put your spin on it.

You say that I cant let go of the hate I find that kind of funny I heat no one. Tell me Kroma what did me and my team do that was so bad. Was it takeing out the Feds That was are goal  to take out the side we thought could hurt us the most.

All you did was show us that you didn't believe it to be true with regard to KCW because you had misinterpreted the fact that SSCF used their own voice comms on a server that happened over 3 years ago. In anycase most of those individuals don't even play the game anymore. So even if they did slight you way back then why hold a grudge against your current opponents.

You'll say you have no grudge, and maybe you personnally don't, however, a player on your team (Butcher) indicated that it was the Coalition's plan was to get the Alliance to quit and feel outnumbered. Krueg then confirmed that by saying:

"And it worked perfectly.  Grin
Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war."

You can change the word "Demoralize" to whatever effimism you like but the intent and motivation behind it are clear. Your plan from the get go was to hit your opponents in a way that caused them to give up and quiet. Fine I guess I can almost see the logic when you were expecting to be heavily out numbered yourselves. I will assume also that this wasn't thought up out of malice toward your opponents, but once the number situation and server outcome had become clear, and was nolonger in question as to who would win, why was it necessary to pursue a course that would create a situation were the few good pilots and people that were hanging in there trying to give you at least some decent PvP and fun, wold quiet and become demoralized? Why deny them the ability to play the race they signed up for? Why runup the score on them?

So far your answer to these questions is that because Hooch tried to screw the KBF with his change of heart on the draft, which when it was pointed out to you that he did this because he wished to get people to get to know their opponents, you say you doubted that becasue of some preceived slight on a server 3 years prior. In any case, Hooch and the SSCF aren't even the people you have been attempting to drive off and demoralize. So why did you bring up those incidence as justification for your current behavior on this server?

[KBFLordKrueg]

Now I was on the server last night and I have a question: There is one Fed planet deep in Gorn space. If the Romulan strategy demands that it be eliminated, why did I see no progress towards taking it away? There should be a tunnel 10 hexes deep by now into Gorn space to rid you of this serious danger to the empire. This is the plan isn't it and you are sticking to it right?

Are you kidding? After the hissy everyone's thrown because we executed a tatical move with greater success than we dreamed?  
When are you guys gonna get it? The whole goal was to eliminate or at least greatly lessen what we considered the greatest threat. With fighters that launch 4-5 drones each, coupled with fast drones in the late era, the Feds are damn tough, especially with a Gorn wing.
We expected to see more Gorns on than Feds (as was Jinn's intent, Gorn vs Roms, with only minor Fed involment), but that was rarely seen. We also expected more Feds to hop in Gorn ships as the Fed space shrank...again, didn't happen. Instead we're accused of all sorts of foul things and looked down upon because out plan was more successful than any of us ever expected.
Should have flipped a hex deep in Gorn space like that to begin with, instead of right on the front lines, and all that BS wouldn't have occured either...
I will also give great Kudos to those Feds who have continued to stick it out, especially those who have switched to flying Gorn ships.
Had a the longest match ever last night with TobinDax (BruceDax), 2-1/2 hrs!   I finally left the map in tribute to the most even match I've had in a long time...both of us sniping at each other constantl;y. An outstanding Plasma Ballet!

[Mazeppa]

.... They don't like that there is no one to fight, but their style of play demands that they keep pushing because in the past servers have been won by late influxes of enemy players after weeks of pathetic showings.

Now all this being valid, it still brings up the fact that after a point (when the last Fed planet was taken) the Feds were no threat to the Romulans (there was going to be no magical influx of late players to the Feds, it was pretty obvious), yet the Romulans kept on not only knocking the Feds down, but kicking them repeatedly in the groin, teeth and stomach, even after several pleas from Fed players to stop and just please let them play (may we please have the privilege of playing on your server sir?). All this was met with either indifference or derisiveness and then scorn when people actually gave up after being fairly beaten.

Now I was on the server last night and I have a question: There is one Fed planet deep in Gorn space. If the Romulan strategy demands that it be eliminated, why did I see no progress towards taking it away? There should be a tunnel 10 hexes deep by now into Gorn space to rid you of this serious danger to the empire. This is the plan isn't it and you are sticking to it right?

The Feds are ALWAYS a threat.  Even now, they are a threat. Let me shout this out for all to see:   WE THINK THE FEDERATION IS ALWAYS A THREAT.  THEY ARE MOST WORTHY OPPONENTS, AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM ALL THE WAY OUT OR THEY WILL COME BACK AND CAUSE US GRIEF.  I strongly suspect we will see the Star of Andor leading a major effort around 3 AM Sunday morning to try and secure some sort of goal.  I suspect they might even try and fly in groups of two or three or something evil like that. 

The Fed planet 'way deep in Gorn space is an annoyance, and I do not think we can get to it.  The fact that we were told unilaterally that the Feds were allowed to Rot Fur to illegitimately obtain planets is offensive. 

The continual harping that the Coalition has put the last nail in the coffin of this game is offensive.  We played to win.  We broke no rules.

I do not think this game will die based on this server.  But if it does, then let it be remembered for all time that it ended with:

1. The United Federation of Planets using the most hated tactic in the Dynaverse, (Rotting Fur) to continue to vainly and stubbornly cling to their ship when there was a plethora of very fine ships available in the mighty Gorn Fleet.

2. The Alliance defeated by ROMULAN ships.

3. Officers of the United Federation of Planets pleading for mercy in General Chat.

4. Alliance pilots whining about Coalition pilots flying in groups of two or three.  Because the Alliance has never done that.

5. A Coalition boot firmly on the neck of the Alliance.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

It was a great match Kreug. Missed your calling I guess considering how great you flew.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The Feds are ALWAYS a threat.  Even now, they are a threat. Let me shout this out for all to see:   WE THINK THE FEDERATION IS ALWAYS A THREAT.  THEY ARE MOST WORTHY OPPONENTS, AND WE HAVE TO TAKE THEM ALL THE WAY OUT OR THEY WILL COME BACK AND CAUSE US GRIEF.  I strongly suspect we will see the Star of Andor leading a major effort around 3 AM Sunday morning to try and secure some sort of goal.  I suspect they might even try and fly in groups of two or three or something evil like that. 

As I said Sears, insane paranoia.

The Fed planet 'way deep in Gorn space is an annoyance, and I do not think we can get to it.  The fact that we were told unilaterally that the Feds were allowed to Rot Fur to illegitimately obtain planets is offensive. 

You yourself stated that it was a sensible rule change to allow the server to continue.

It was not unilateral, I allowed your RM to veto the decision, he remained silent on the issue.

The continual harping that the Coalition has put the last nail in the coffin of this game is offensive.  We played to win.  We broke no rules.

Never said you broke a rule, said you were unsportsman like by "running up" the score and attempting to demoralize players and cause them to quiet.

1. The United Federation of Planets using the most hated tactic in the Dynaverse, (Rotting Fur) to continue

Flipping an alliance planet or base for resupply was deemed league in this series several servers ago. The Coalition did it in fact during SGO4.

I guess most hated tactics are only cheating when others do them, not yourself. That must be why you thought rigging the KCW draft was OK, because you were doing it, even thought the rules said the draft was to be secret. Zeppa, you use situational ethics, which means you have none. The game was better off when you were retired.

2. The Alliance defeated by ROMULAN ships.

3. Officers of the United Federation of Planets pleading for mercy in General Chat.

4. Alliance pilots whining about Coalition pilots flying in groups of two or three.  Because the Alliance has never done that.

5. A Coalition boot firmly on the neck of the Alliance.

What can I say Zeppa, this pretty much proves everything I have been going on about, poor sportsmanship and malignant attitudes towards your fellow players. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples with loud mouths create the impression that these are the attitudes of the player base at large.

[Mazeppa]

I did not rig the KCW draft, you lying lump of lugage.  I guess I'll have to post everything I know after I discuss it with Tracey.  I just provided input, but I do know how the draft went down, including the way your team tried to divide the Black Fleet to your advantage by trading every Black Fleet member off of your team.  You were just amazed and upset when your little plan backfired on you.


Sorry, forgot this one:

6. Kroma will insist on having the last word, or in his case, pitcher of bile.

[WarSears]

Nice post Chuut and Corb

Corb I consider my self both a challenge seeker and a fun seeker.

You'll say you have no grudge, and maybe you personnally don't, however, a player on your team (Butcher) indicated that it was the Coalition's plan was to get the Alliance to quit and feel outnumbered. Krueg then confirmed that by saying:

"And it worked perfectly.  Grin
Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war."

To tell you the truth I never read Butcher post, and Krueg could have done without using the word demoralization. I believe you and some others are taking it way to serious.

So far your answer to these questions is that because Hooch tried to screw the KBF with his change of heart on the draft, which when it was pointed out to you that he did this because he wished to get people to get to know their opponents, you say you doubted that because of some preceived slight on a server 3 years prior. In any case, Hooch and the SSCF aren't even the people you have been attempting to drive off and demoralize. So why did you bring up those incidence as justification for your current behavior on this server?

Oh boy Kroma again I must repeat my self to you The only reason I brought up the SSCF was because you used Hooch to try and make a point all I did was point out facts.

As for justifying my behavior I have no need Ive done nothing wrong. just because you don't like the end results doesn't mean its bad behavior.

[KBF-Crim]

"What can I say Zeppa, this pretty much proves everything I have been going on about, poor sportsmanship and malignant attitudes towards your fellow players. It is unfortunate that a few bad apples with loud mouths create the impression that these are the attitudes of the player base at large."

Grrrrrrrrr

So...what.....we're not allowed to be Klingon anymore?

You playing the same game I am?

I said less emphisis on war..in war-game....I didnt say eliminate it...

Dont remember the "great fed turkey shoot?"  a huge allied offensive designed and carried out on an early Thanksgiving morning faced by a few valient defenders?

Dont remember the "hail mary?"  designed and carried on an early fathers day morning faced by a few valient defenders?

These offensives alone were expressly designed to take advantage of the fact that a majority of the defenders would be wrapped up in family commitments and unable to rise to the defense...

The alliance sought a clear tacitcal advantage that arouse from the majority of opposing players had personal commitments...while clearly keeping such an operation secret before inception...

Do we still scream foul?...or did you get a "well played...and well planned....we should have known"

Certainly had plenty of people speak up and say that "nice" or not...it was a valid tactic...

Seems alot different than sounding the horns of battel comming over the rise and announcing exacty what your target is and when you will be there pounding on it...giving the defenders plenty of time to put their butts on the line...

You've flown on our side....and you know how we play...and you never seem to have a problem with these tactics when you are the benificiary...

You're not playing against a bunch of wussies...we're comming like Atilla's hoards...

Many times there is no choice but to fight or run.

You want to mix up interpersonal problems with other players in with completley valid war game tactics and cry foul...it aint gonna wash...

I never hear these cries or foul when it is our space that's being over run.....or our worlds being targeted...our when our ships are gleefully blown to bits...

So knock off the melodrama and the not so subtle charactor Assination...

I'm gonna politely remind you there is an unmoderated forum at SFC2.net....

You guys want to continue beating each other over the head...go over there....get this crap off yer chest...then bury the frickin hatchet..even if it has to be in someones skull.

[Sirgod]

Wow Guys where did all this Anger come from? Is it the spring weather? I mean come on, How long have you all been friends? Shoot It seems like It's starting to Branch out everywhere lately.

Now Please, I ask you as a gentlemen, to try and Find some common ground. Just stop this Bickering.

Stephen

[Kroma BaSyl]

I did not rig the KCW draft, you lying lump of lugage.  I guess I'll have to post everything I know after I discuss it with Tracey.

Yes be sure to get your stories straight first. I have saved all corespondence over KCW too.

  I just provided input, but I do know how the draft went down, including the way your team tried to divide the Black Fleet to your advantage by trading every Black Fleet member off of your team. 

LOL...We only had one KBF member on our team after the initial draft. Crim. We never traded him, as trades never occurred. You have either  completely forgotten everything about it or are just telling more lies, something you seem to do quiet freguently but rather poorly.

You were just amazed and upset when your little plan backfired on you.

What plan exactly? We weren't the ones that attempted to circumvent the blind draft. You were. The only planning we did was to sitdown by ourselves to come up with our list on our own according to the rules. Once again your are projecting your willingness to cheat and negative motivations onto others, where they don't exists.

6. Kroma will insist on having the last word, or in his case, pitcher of bile.

This would be a much more damning comment on my behavior if you were not also pitching bile and attempting to get the last word yourself. Just another example of how iyou interpret an action as wrong if committed by another but right when you do it yourself.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

1. The United Federation of Planets using the most hated tactic in the Dynaverse, (Rotting Fur) to continue to vainly and stubbornly cling to their ship when there was a plethora of very fine ships available in the mighty Gorn Fleet.

Rotting Fur is using an enemy account to lose missions so that allied forces may more easily take possession of a hex.  An ally losing missions in an allied hex so that a hex may be flipped to a different allied race is NOT rotting Fur.  What it is a way to work around game dynamics so that an allied race may provide line of supply or resupply, something that would occur if this was a real war instead of a simulation.  Any one who thinks of such a tactic as "rotting fur" should reconsider applying a logical approach as to what empires would be capable of doing if this was not a simulation.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Oh boy Kroma again I must repeat my self to you The only reason I brought up the SSCF was because you used Hooch to try and make a point all I did was point out facts.

Actually, a Coalition memeber attempted to use the KCW full draft decision as justification for the campaign to demoralize Alliance player and force them to quiet as well as a justification for attempting to circumvent the blind draft. I have pointed out that even if Hooch did do something wrong to you, that was no reason to take it out on the players of this server as they had nothing to do with it.

As for justifying my behavior I have no need Ive done nothing wrong. just because you don't like the end results doesn't mean its bad behavior.

Once again, I could careless about how wins or loses the server, I just wanted it to remain fun for as many players as long as possible. Your leader and other team memebrs have stated quiet clearly with no proding from me that this was not what they wanted in fact they were attempting to do the exact oposite by wiping out the last non-VC fed resupply.

Hav eyou even read Zeppa's bile filled post? Is that what you want to be the apologist for? When Josh came pitching his bile in here I slapped him done just as quickly as I commented on the bile I saw from your side, the only difference in the 2 is that Josh felt proper remorse for his behavior but the individuals from your side did not.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I'm gonna politely remind you there is an unmoderated forum at SFC2.net....

Then why didn't you post this diatribe over there?

It isn't the tactic or any tactic I have an issue with. It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

And I thought that was what forum flamewars were for............

[Kroma BaSyl]

It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

And I thought that was what forum flamewars were for............

No Chuut this one is because people need to stop with the friggin hyper-comepitive-screw-everyone-but-my-own-team mentality. It has gone on long enough and I would hope that people stop and think about there action and motivation in the future. Based on past experience I am not to hopeful.

[FPF-DieHard]

Wow Guys where did all this Anger come from? Is it the spring weather? I mean come on, How long have you all been friends? Shoot It seems like It's starting to Branch out everywhere lately.

Now Please, I ask you as a gentlemen, to try and Find some common ground. Just stop this Bickering.

Stephen

You should let this continue.   It is only through rational discourse that a resolution of this silly BS will come.

Moderaters locking threads only sweeps things under the rug.   

So far as far as flame wars go, this has been quite civil with the worst insult being "lump of lying luggage" (priceless by the way  ).   I kinda asking the moderators to let this continue.

Truth is, we aren't friends.  I don't think we ever will be as there is too much anamosity built up which ironicly most involves people who don't play the game anymore. 

Even if everything the SSCF "allegedly" did is true, it does not matter.

Are we at the end of public servers?

[Corbomite]

Are you kidding? After the hissy everyone's thrown because we executed a tatical move with greater success than we dreamed?  

So you admit that this isn't really your "strategy" and it was done for the sake of maliciousness? You mean asking nicely wasn't the way to do it? We needed to throw a hissy? Thanks, I'll remember that for next time.

When are you guys gonna get it? The whole goal was to eliminate or at least greatly lessen what we considered the greatest threat. With fighters that launch 4-5 drones each, coupled with fast drones in the late era, the Feds are damn tough, especially with a Gorn wing.

And you did it well, congrats. Except for the fact that all your ship's need do is cloak and all those horrible, scary missiles go bye-bye. Next lame excuse?

We expected to see more Gorns on than Feds (as was Jinn's intent, Gorn vs Roms, with only minor Fed involment), but that was rarely seen. We also expected more Feds to hop in Gorn ships as the Fed space shrank...again, didn't happen. Instead we're accused of all sorts of foul things and looked down upon because out plan was more successful than any of us ever expected.

No one was villifiying you over using a great tactic to win, only going overboard when there was no need to and continuing when players asked you nicely to stop as the server was already decided (this whole thing has been decided since GW2 so you stomping the Feds out of existence does look like a vendetta, no matter how you try to defend yourselves).

Should have flipped a hex deep in Gorn space like that to begin with, instead of right on the front lines, and all that BS wouldn't have occured either...

Well, we thought you were cool. Our mistake. Won't make it again.

I will also give great Kudos to those Feds who have continued to stick it out, especially those who have switched to flying Gorn ships.

I've been playing both the whole server. I haven't been on lately as work has been a hassle the last week or so, but since I usually don't even rate a "gg" from the people I have encountered lately I'm wondering if I should bother at all.

[Lepton]

It is any attempt to drive players out of the game or dilibrately ruin their fun, especially when there was nothing to gain either tactically or strategically any more as the server and campaign were already decided.

And I thought that was what forum flamewars were for............

No Chuut this one is because people need to stop with the friggin hyper-comepitive-screw-everyone-but-my-own-team mentality. It has gone on long enough and I would hope that people stop and think about there action and motivation in the future. Based on past experience I am not to hopeful.

This is why I would argue for a system that effectively has no teams.  Past-intrigues aside, a person logs onto the server, sees which side is short, and plays for it. I would think that this would help balance out the number of fun seekers and strategists per side.  Strategies overall would be more ad-hoc and temporary.  Players generally in opposition would be forced to work together.  I personally do not understand why one would want to let a situation occur where one side overruns the map due to players not showing up.  How is that fun for anyone or challenging?  It isn't.  And I don't just mean GW5.  I mean every dang server where it seems clear one side is getting pounded for whatever reason.  Why let the situation persist?  As I have said elsewhere, I know of no game that is played with such uneven player numbers.  If it is game, treat it as such and even up the sides.  I'd like to see at least one major server to try out this method.  Couldn't hoit (hurt)?!

[Age]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.There is one exception to this and that is if there are new players on the Dyna 2.It would help them to team up with an experienced vetran pilot and go play some pvp a 2v1 yeah I know bad odds but the 1 player would be a veteran as most of you are either D2ers or IP pilots.This one of the better ways to balance it out unless you go the race registration as D3 does and have a clan war access forum either here or bozobits although it would make it simpliar here.
  I prefer not do this in D2 and to keep it the way it is as we like own little forums up there and I know there fleet forums although clans can team up with clans to build there own sites as all D3 clans have done.The only true clans on this forum are the SSCF and the EFF as we have our own separate sites.I would strongly suggest what I said above yeah I know some of you may not want to log of the server but to keep it even to bad get off.This about the only way around to solve this without race registration if you ask any D3er they get to learn all the races some members of the IKS prefer flying Fed and the same can be said for the 11th Spartan Vanguard no you wouldn't find the S31 flying anything but Fed.I will never see myself getting better on the Dyna unless I team up with Veteran and this will help rookies out.Yes indeed you guys are scary to play with as OP is a hard game to master.That is the only thing I can say this.

[Father Ted]

Age, while a good idea in spirit, it ruins the flavor of the game. The fun of the D2 is the swinging of balance in numbers. Offensives might as well be called off if this rule came into effect. Most of the fun I've had is when Die Hard decides to have a Crack Whore offensive. The idea was to get as many Fed, or Alliance players on at one time as you could(at some damned weird hour of the late night or early morning) and go for an objective. We've done it on almost every server I've played on, the most memorable being the Hydran Expedition on GW2. That was a blast.

The whole idea is to "get there fustest with the mostest". The Coalition decided for once to have a Crack Whore server. It happens.

This server was a fiasco, numberswise, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. By making players log off to keep numbers even, you'll drive off more players than you'll keep.

[FPF-DieHard]

Age, while a good idea in spirit, it ruins the flavor of the game. The fun of the D2 is the swinging of balance in numbers. Offensives might as well be called off if this rule came into effect. Most of the fun I've had is when Die Hard decides to have a Crack Whore offensive. The idea was to get as many Fed, or Alliance players on at one time as you could(at some damned weird hour of the late night or early morning) and go for an objective. We've done it on almost every server I've played on, the most memorable being the Hydran Expedition on GW2. That was a blast.

The whole idea is to "get there fustest with the mostest". The Coalition decided for once to have a Crack Whore server. It happens.

This server was a fiasco, numberswise, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. By making players log off to keep numbers even, you'll drive off more players than you'll keep.

What he said.   A slight imbalance is not a problem.

Actually, I have no problme with the Coaliton completly blowing out the alliance on this server.   Krueg and Hexx should be given a lot of credit.

This is not this issue.  Stay on target.

[Age]

  It was just an idea but a buddy system for noobes like myself I kinda like.I have enjoyed flying with DieHard when you are haveing and are in a good mood  as well as Tracey and Jem.I just wished I could catch up to Pestalence when he decides come GW4 and SGO4 he didn't fly on but you are all good in the end.

[Corbomite]

 ... but you are all good in the end.

Well Kroma certainly thinks so.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

 ... but you are all good in the end.

Well Kroma certainly thinks so.

 

[Rolling]

The only reason we chose to stay on our own voice comms during campaigns was so we wouldn't get cooties from the other races.

 

[Grim]

lol..

Good to see you are still around still Kim

[Rolling]

Well, about a week ago I was looking into doing some downloading and was gonna reinstall OP just for the fun of it.

I think I may wait a while longer.

[OlBuzzard]

Kim...

Howdy, ma'am..  please to see ya this mornin'.  Mighty fine day! 

(tips hat to lady)

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Well, about a week ago I was looking into doing some downloading and was gonna reinstall OP just for the fun of it.

I think I may wait a while longer.

Good thinking.

Nice to see you post though.

[WarSears]

Kroma this will be my last post on this therad I see no resaon to keep arguing with you.


There is no need for me to be a apologist for anyone while R/P isn't my cup of tea there was nothing wrong with Mazeppa or LK post. There has been may times in the past that the KBF was the target of people fun. Even tho they new most of the KBF didn't like it. You your self even said that KBF stood for Kroma Bitch's Forsale.

About GW5 and justify what we did I have no need. It was are plan to take the Feds out of GW5 sorry if you don't like it, Say what you will about ruining up the score but the fact is the Alliance has pulled off plenty of last min objectives just see FT post.

Once again, I could careless about how wins or loses the server, I just wanted it to remain fun for as many players as long as possible. Your leader and other team memebrs have stated quiet clearly with no proding from me that this was not what they wanted in fact they were attempting to do the exact oposite by wiping out the last non-VC fed resupply.

It sure doesn't sound like it.

About me not letting go of the past I think you need to look in the mirror the KCW must really burn you.

If it make you feel any better Kroma I do feel bad. I feel bad if people had there fun ruined that wasn't the intent.

[Kroma BaSyl]

There is no need for me to be a apologist for anyone while R/P isn't my cup of tea there was nothing wrong with Mazeppa or LK post. There has been may times in the past that the KBF was the target of people fun. Even tho they new most of the KBF didn't like it. You your self even said that KBF stood for Kroma Bitch's Forsale.

Clowning around in RP post vs ruining the server for others to have their fun. I sorry but the two don't even come close. I guess my wise cracking is just another justification for malevonent behavior. Weak arguement.

About GW5 and justify what we did I have no need. It was are plan to take the Feds out of GW5 sorry if you don't like it, Say what you will about ruining up the score but the fact is the Alliance has pulled off plenty of last min objectives just see FT post.

It is mathmatically imossible for the Alliance to win the campaign. Has been for a while, so this logic is faulty.

It sure doesn't sound like it.


About me not letting go of the past I think you need to look in the mirror the KCW must really burn you.

It does bother me that what could have been a fun server and community building event was ruined by a couple of  people with bad attitudes.

If it make you feel any better Kroma I do feel bad. I feel bad if people had there fun ruined that wasn't the intent.

I have never thought you were one of the ones with the bad attitude, still don't. I just wish there were more like you in both camps.

[Lepton]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

[FPF-DieHard]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

[Lepton]

Age, while a good idea in spirit, it ruins the flavor of the game. The fun of the D2 is the swinging of balance in numbers. Offensives might as well be called off if this rule came into effect. Most of the fun I've had is when Die Hard decides to have a Crack Whore offensive. The idea was to get as many Fed, or Alliance players on at one time as you could(at some damned weird hour of the late night or early morning) and go for an objective. We've done it on almost every server I've played on, the most memorable being the Hydran Expedition on GW2. That was a blast.

The whole idea is to "get there fustest with the mostest". The Coalition decided for once to have a Crack Whore server. It happens.

This server was a fiasco, numberswise, but you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. By making players log off to keep numbers even, you'll drive off more players than you'll keep.

While having a great number of people log on to do a strategic push is certainly permitted and possible in the D2, I would say that it is hardly fair or equitable.  I understand that it has been a source of pride and fun in the past, but for me it really does not pass the smell test and I believe it never should have for most people.  The  idea to me is that people are logging onto the D2 to play with and against other people, not steamroll over the AI.  As I said before, you don't play a basketball game 20 vs 3.  Therefore, the outcome in the instance of equal player numbers all the time would be that the most skilled players are successful, not just the side that can muster the most numbers.  Further, the idea of winning or losing a server becomes absurd, as at any time one might be fighting for either "side" on the server.  One would therefore be basing one's enjoyment of playing on a server on interactions with fellows, game play (as opposed to some sort of vicarious strategic reward that one may have played some vague part in), and the satisfaction of well-fought, even contest.

I have played in pure PvP campaigns and I can tell you that in those campaigns real strategic decisions were being made as to the allocation of forces and the timing of offensives and those offensives were met by the full force and intellect of human players determined to turn back the tide. If you want the glories of war and a strategic victory that is where it lies as each victory is fought against the full capacity of another human being, not the AI.  What won those battles was skill, game play tactics, and strategic thinking, not merely logging on with 20 people to whip up on the AI.

I continue to fail to see why the objective must be to win, rather than to play.  The fun is in the battle, not the victory.  If one wants to win all the time, play the AI exclusively.  Hell, log off and do a single player campaign.  To me, there is nothing to brag about in logging on when no one else is around and smashing up on the AI to claim what for me would be a meaningless objective.  Is that sporting?  I think not.  Is it sneaky?  I think so and it points up a win-at-all-costs attitude as opposed to "let's log on and actually play the game" as opposed to flip hexes.

I know for a fact that the system I suggest will never be implemented, but it is in fact the only equitable solution.  I'd like to see someone explain this Crack Whore server mentality to someone who has never played this game and see if they think it is fair.  I'd like to see someone explain to their kid that the way that Daddy's side wins a server is to play the game when no one else is around and run over the map while everyone else is asleep, etc.  I can tell you that kid will say, "That doesn't seem fair" and it's really that clear if you think about it. 

This however is not my main point.  I merely think people would find it more enjoyable to play on a server with balanced numbers where victories were fought for, not given at the expense of the AI.  I could certainly be wrong.

[Lepton]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

Please enlighten me as to the issue, then.

[FPF-DieHard]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

Please enlighten me as to the issue, then.

Read Kroma's post, I'm too lazy to quote 

[Lepton]

There is only one solution to this and that is if you see 5 Alliance players and there are 8 Coalition players on those 3 Coalition players must log off.

I never suggested that people log off.  I just suggested that they switch sides as needed to balance the numbers.

Stay on target.   The number imbalance is NOT the issue.

Please enlighten me as to the issue, then.

Read Kroma's post, I'm too lazy to quote 

I've read all the posts.  The issue that is at hand is a symptom of a larger problem.  The win-at-all-costs attitude is the problem.  My suggested system would only appeal to those who actually enjoy playing against other people.  If the idea is to win, you might as well not bother playing.  If the idea is to play and have fun, might as well balance out the sides so at least things are equitable.  I don't understand why one would want to play on a server that was so unbalanced as either the loser or the victor.  It's pointless.

The running-up-the-score issue is a symptom of the general attitude of the players, that they wish to win as opposed to play.  To me, that is the issue.  One would only want to use the system I suggest if one actually wishes to play and not to win.

[Corbomite]

No, the real problem is that everyone can't agree there is a problem. That leads to an impass and breakdown of communication.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Seems to me that Alliance players had the option of logging on in Gorn accounts to continue the fight if they were interested in PvP and/or a challange.  As has been stated, the outcome was already decided for the server and the series so the only reson to continue would be for such fun and challange.  If playing anything other than Federation wasn't fun for some players, then their fun was limited by the limits of their own making.  It seems that the Coalition is being made villians by some by their actions and I think this is blaming them unjustly since the Alliance was not prevented in participating, just limited in how they could participate. 

I recently had to chastise myself for some of my posts regarding the OOB servers, realising that if I didn't like them noone was forcing me to participate, but that was no reason to be negative in my attitude towards them.  I find no fault with someone who leaves the server if the Federation was eliminated, flying Gorn might not be everyones cup of tea, it is similar to an OOB limitation where you have fewer ship options but still can fly if you wish.  But I do find fault in the blaming of other players actions for your own lack of fun.  Accept personal responsibility for your own fun.

[deadmansix]

Seems to me that Alliance players had the option of logging on in Gorn accounts to continue the fight if they were interested in PvP and/or a challange.  As has been stated, the outcome was already decided for the server and the series so the only reson to continue would be for such fun and challange.  If playing anything other than Federation wasn't fun for some players, then their fun was limited by the limits of their own making.  It seems that the Coalition is being made villians by some by their actions and I think this is blaming them unjustly since the Alliance was not prevented in participating, just limited in how they could participate. 

I recently had to chastise myself for some of my posts regarding the OOB servers, realising that if I didn't like them noone was forcing me to participate, but that was no reason to be negative in my attitude towards them.  I find no fault with someone who leaves the server if the Federation was eliminated, flying Gorn might not be everyones cup of tea, it is similar to an OOB limitation where you have fewer ship options but still can fly if you wish.  But I do find fault in the blaming of other players actions for your own lack of fun.  Accept personal responsibility for your own fun.

 the problem as I see it wasnt the strgic move of player numbers in my view although daughting not the problem,the problem was that due to the complete elimination of all fed territory and the loss of any and all supply points to the feds, was excessive and uncalled for, and as this is a game doing so kept those players that just wanted to fly fed from playing at all, kudos to the coalition for planing,and execution of a well thought out plan but in my view it was carred out way to far and kept players from playing and that should never be done.

 true flying only one race limits one options but that is the players choice, just as I was stuck only flying hydran until I became secure here in the community but to some flying other races is not an option and we should be able to accommodate them as well.

 this is my view for what its worth.

[Pestalence_XC]

What I have seen on the server personally is this...

Roms with no blue hexes to hit.. they take some Gorn hexes but not vigorously..

but as soon as a blue hex shows up, they attack it en Mass, not even giving enough time for the hex to have the DV raised... I flipped 21,15 last night and 2 feds and 3 gorn tried to rais the DV of that one hex.. it got to 7 then was immediately hit by 4 roms, 1 flying a DN.. they went from 10,9 section of space over to 21,15 just to het the 1 minor non VC Fed hex while disreguarding the Gorn hexes...

Every PVP I have had has almost been 2 on 1.. I hardly ever got a 1 v 1 or 2 v 2.... because of the Economy of the feds, the yards are building only the sNCLR, which is not being built and is illegal to fly.. an even then the Fed yards only build 2 of those every 4 turns.. nothing else.. so we can't replace ships that are destroyed and we are still being stuck in illegal specialty ships...

Every time I get killed in battle, I have to make a new account for Fed just to have a playable ship, I run maybe 5 missions vs AI before I get hit by 2 Rom pilots and get my ship killed.. then I have to make a new account in order to keep playing..

I find no fun playing as plasma chucker.... I enjoy a mix it up ship where tactics are extremely important..

I have greatly enjoyed the Fed vs Rom matches I have been in.. makes me try things that normally gets ships killed.. like last night I was in a 2 Rom vs me match.. I almost took out Netman, but both Netman and his partner were flying sSPX against my lone DGX... I know I scored over a hundered internals on Netman, however he was still running speed 31 and had a tractor ready which got me killed... I was severely out gunned by the 2 vs 1 but the match was fun... however this is just a rinse and repeat of almost every match I have been in...

as such, It is no fun having to make a new account every 6th mission just to gain 1 hex worth nothing to the Roms in order to try to build the economy enough to have maybe a 3rd ship in our yards..

as for player balance.. at 3 AM was the only time I have ever say even numbers of Rom vs Alliance (CST) and even then the DN on the boards completely negated anything that the Alliance tried to do...

that is why I suggest a race cap like they use in SFC 3.. limit each race to say 5 players.. then when all slots are full, then increase by 2 slots per race until they are full and so on..

this will make all sides have equal number of registered players per race .. some may not get to fly the race they want, but it is fair..

the problem with GW 5 and the number of roms is this..

say a planet has 5 VC on it.. there are 15 Roms on and 6 Alliance on.. say everyoine is in the Planet hex.. everyone is flying 2 vs 2.. this allows the Roms to run 7 missions stacked under all the PVP matches.. there is no way to even realistically attempt to hold the hex as they are running 10 missions on 1 hex to our 3, resulting in a 7 DV shift to their favor (if the Alliance ships win) in any given 20 min period.. given that the 7 players playing AI in the hex only run 1 mission in the 20 min..

so where is the fun in even attempting to play any sort of strategic game with that sort of odds..

that is why the majority of alliance has said they quit the server.. I was hoping that some of the Coalition would be honorable enough to swap sides to blance out numbers.. but winning is all that counts.. see with even numbers, then you actually can use strategy and plan your movements and have great PVP's that are worth flying because the map will show the results of the pilot skills, instead of how well you can kill AI..

It wan't that the Alliance didn't want to play, but Steam rolling 1 race that over half of the PVP comes from was just wrong... an honorable thing that the Coalition should have done was state.. let's push them back to maybe a 3 hex deep area and let them have the one base... their economy will be so poor that they can't get good ships, but at least we would get PVP as they tried to fight their way out...

Instead, because someone is scared of the Fed Fighters, they steamroll the Fed.. the Fed fighters die quickly if you use your plasma on them.. it makes for a much longer mission, but I saw the other night in a 2 vs 2 where2 sSPX took out 6 sqadrons of F18Cm and then proceeded to take the rest of the match.. the statement of the Fed fighters being too tought and a major problem is just white wash and holds no water.. Feds did not have many carriers built.. that means you would be fighting AI ships with fighters.. and even then the AI uses slow drones.. which meant taking out the command ship is a piece of cake.. On top of that the Fighter missles only do 4 damage each, unless equippped with Type 1 Med missles, and even then a strong shield reinforcement with an ECM shift of one basically negates 2 of the 3 missles, not counting T bombs and PD and defensive tractors.... I mean come on.. if 2 xSPX can kill 6 squadrons of F18Cm and still win the match, I am sure the bigger iron should have no problem..

Anyhow, I hope a system is incorporated to where it forces equal numbers... Makes the server fair and fun.. and it gives the ability to let your battles decide the outcome instead of the number of missions run on a hex..

[FPF-DieHard]

No, the real problem is that everyone can't agree there is a problem. That leads to an impass and breakdown of communication.

then the "us" and the "them" should play on seperate servers.  Time we stop pretending we are a "community," stop trying to shove a round-peg in a square-hole.

[Dfly]

Well said Pestalence.

[_SSCF_Hooch]

I loved SCF, from 1 though 3.

I enjoyed this community and it's players.

It saddens me to see the same old, same old being re-heated again.

Let it go guys.

For the record though, in ISDL SSCF as I recall never got a single invite to the Klingon RW, TS was new and we liked it better. Thats all.

Hooch

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

HOOOOOOOch! Boy I miss the sound of your voice. Hope you and your family are well. 

[deadmansix]

Hooch good to see ya my friend,hope all is well with you and yours realy miss ya on here and miss you on my wing, hopeing to look out and see you there agian one day.

 my you and your family all ways be safe and well my friend.