Topic: player balance

[deadmansix]

 you know,I have played a few servers over the years and seen the balance of players swing back and forth during the day sometimes for the alliance and sometimes for the coallition,and I have heard complaining from both sides about numbers,some times it is true sometimes not and it was just a matter of perception and time of day.
  but never have I seen in all the time I have played this game a server so one sided as this one man its so one sided that even I am thinking of throwing in the towel and waiting until the next server,it is so one sided that it has gotten to the point that it is not fun anymore, not just frustrating,not fun, and I don't quit servers but this one I am getting close to doing so its is so bad,and the sad thing is I don't know or have any clue as to what I can suggest to help this situation. now I am used to 2-3 to 1 odds but when its almost constantly 5-8 to 1 and that is what its been constantly (have been keeping track through th day) if any one has any idea how to fix this please speak up because this will kill the game faster than any OOB dispute or flaming.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

My advice deadman is to have PvP fun if that will keep you going, don't worry about the map or VCs, as the server has long been decided anyhow.  Just give the credit to the coalition recruiting and congratulate them.  It isn't the first time it has happened, anyhow, I remember switching sides on Ragnarok from Kzin to Klingon when a similar situation happened, the Klingon economy was so wrecked I started in a freighter as did Matsukasi and a couple of others.  If you can find some fun do it, if you can't there is nothing wrong with putting it on the shelf, until a more balanced server appears.

[CaptJosh]

** I'm cranky and I need a nap. I didn't have a good time on the server
but I wish everyone would have a great day.**

[WarSears]

Pardon my language, Chuut, but forget that! For future reference, the  Klinks who have such a damned hardon for the feds should not be allowed to fly on a server where it's one Coalition race(Romulans) versus 2 Alliance races with the Feds as junior partners and only having a minor amount of territory. Because those pilots would, as they did this time, insist on steamrolling what little fed space there is, when the truth is, it's unrealistic. In a real war scenario, when such a wholesale invasion was being made, the Federation would have dispatched at least a battlegroup, if not an entire fleet. The Romulan Incursion would have been beaten back soundly, while the Gorn would have taken the cue to invade Romulan Space wholesale while the Romulan border was so poorly defended.

This server in no way reflects the strategic nature of the actual General War. What it does refect is a number of Players  deciding they're going to throw real tactics out the window and get rid of the Federation at all costs on this server because they've got some kind of grudge. I swear, one of the rules should have been that Fed space is worth no VCs. Maybe then the Roms on GW5 would have fought an honest campaign.

As for PVP fun, it's impossible to have when all the Roms are flying in squadrons of three because they're a bunch of Wimps.

 
Oh and did I say 

BTW
 
 

[CaptJosh]

** I'm cranky and I need a nap. I didn't have a good time on the server
but I wish everyone would have a great day.**

[ShadowLord]

Ok -- this post is similar to the one started by Jinn --

So here comes several comments--

First off recognize that not having taken part in any dynaverse server other then the GW ones -- KHH is for the most part not involved in any "dyna history or politics" that being said -- Back on April 6 I think it was -- I posted that it would be possible to get 4 KHH Pilots to switch sides if the "powers that be" thought it would help -- (there are now 6 pilots from KHH flying in GW but 4 are fairly active)..anyways nobody said BOO about the offer..and then reading the bozo bit klingon forums I learned several players were going to switch so we took the offer off the table and continued to fly Romulan...
We really like the GW servers but  would much rather have  PVP combat -- we live for it -=- that is why we would have been willing to switch and help balance out the numbers.Again nobody got back to us and said that might help for the good of everyone..

Now as for the comments made by  CaptJosh  about they only fight in packs -- umm anyone in KHH will be more than willing to do a 1v1 PVP combat with you -- name the time and the hex -- without question I would rather you bring a wing and make it a 2v2 -- just because we like 2v2 games better but if you can't find a wing then 1v1 challenge is accepted..

My final comments might actually be somewhat on your side -- I myself thought the focus of this campaign was going to be gorn vs romulan with the feddies having a side note -- well it didn't work out that way..so  I have to give credit to Hexx for the assult plan he devised and LK for the time and effort he put into getting all the Klingon/Romulan pilots ready to fly.( I suppose you could also ask yourself why so many alliance pilots chose to fly FED instead of Gorn...)

Anyways -- I enjoy this server and best of all I enjoy keeping out of the "political" aspects because thats what destroyed the ladder leagues.

Capt -- send me a PM if you want to hook up for some 1v1 combat or better yet 2v2 -- I am on EST and can be online after 6.

KHH_ShadowLord
PuppyPower
Duck

[WarSears]

You're just mad because I've balls enough to call a spade a spade. You don't have to like it, but you know what, screw you too. I've never cared what anyone here thinks of me, and I'm not about to start now. If you don't like that I'm calling your side out on poor sportsmanship, do something to change the poor sportsmanship.

Wow you really dint mind making a ass out of your self. Show me me the bad spotmanship Are ARM sent out tones of PM and e-mails to get people to play on GW 5. Is that bad sortsman ship? Are RM and ARM had a plan to attack the race that could run faster missions and give us more trouble in PvsP. Is that poor sportsmanship? Just because more Coalition players showed up than alliances and are planed worked better than anyone would have guessed doesn't mean it is poor sportsmanship even if you don't like it.

[Davey-E]

Why are we arguing about something we are supposed to be having fun with ?

Look,
If the Server ain,t working out the way you want it to,
Maybe people should take a break from the server rather than try to get other people to live by their rules

Now i cant get on a lot this server (WORK DAMN IT  )
but i stil have fun,

The bottom line is that the Coalition (welll done to them) are a lot better organised than us in GW5 and have gotten more players on the server - Big Deal

[Grim]

As for PVP fun, it's impossible to have when all the Roms are flying in squadrons of three because they're a bunch of f*cking pussies!

Thats the nature of d2 josh, you are not allways going to get 1v1 battles a lot of times you will be outnumbered or your outnumber your enemy its just the way it is.

Its clear you have some issues with the current dyna and you have vented them, but seriously i think you have gone the wrong way about voicing them, leading to a possible flamewar. It would be best if this thread is locked and deleted.

[WarSears]

As for PVP fun, it's impossible to have when all the Roms are flying in squadrons of three because they're a bunch of f*cking pussies!

Thats the nature of d2 josh, you are not allways going to get 1v1 battles a lot of times you will be outnumbered or your outnumber your enemy its just the way it is.

Its clear you have some issues with the current dyna and you have vented them, but seriously i think you have gone the wrong way about voicing them, leading to a possible flamewar. It would be best if this thread is locked and deleted.

110% agreed.

[el-Karnak]

If you want guaranteed even PvP matches then you need to play GZLeague matches with PBR rules.

Let's be realistic here. Coalition leadership is doing a great job in every aspect of the D2 game.  Alliance leadership seems to be in a transition phase. There is a great opportunity here for someone to step up big-time, and take the "bull by the horns" ,so to speak, and recruit, and train, and get Alliance races back where they need to be; particularly the Feds.  I would find it very hard to believe that there are not enough potential OP players out there to replenish the Alliance ranks to match the Coalition.  In 2003, the alliance could always out-number the Coalition one dyna after another.

The only alternative is that some Coalition players have to start playing Alliance for now on cuz no potential Alliance players can be found.  Ummm...if this is the case then gimme a break.  Then you can stick a fork in this game. It's done.  Don't be banging your head on the wall anymore, and move on to other games.  *seriously*

[FPF-DieHard]

Josh, STFU.   Flying off the handle is never constructive (trust me, I wrote the book on that).  It causes people to become defensive and support a position even if they don't 100% agree with it.  No reasonable person can say GW5 is balanced, you're going off on people will make otherwise reasonable people take an un-resaonable possition.

It is not the Coalition's fault the the majority of the Alliance pilots did not show up, it's Dizzy's (or Fluf's, you decide).

Still blame Agave and Scipio though, that's allowed 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

For future reference, the jackass Klinks who have such a damned hardon for the feds should not be allowed to fly on a server where it's one Coalition race(Romulans) versus 2 Alliance races with the Feds as junior partners and only having a minor amount of territory. Because those pilots would, as they did this time, insist on steamrolling what little fed space there is,

No one is forcing you to play on a server that you don't like the setup of.  If you don't like the strategy the other side uses thats not their problem.  

when the truth is, it's unrealistic. In a real war scenario, when such a wholesale invasion was being made, the Federation would have dispatched at least a battlegroup, if not an entire fleet. The Romulan Incursion would have been beaten back soundly, while the Gorn would have taken the cue to invade Romulan Space wholesale while the Romulan border was so poorly defended.

Its a game, how realistic do you expect it to be, the server admins can only present the battlefield and the playing pieces, not tell people how to use them unless you want even more rules.  You want real war visit Iraq

This server in no way reflects the strategic nature of the actual General War. What it does refect is a number of assholes deciding they're going to throw real tactics out the window and get rid of the Federation at all costs on this server because they've got some kind of grudge. I swear, one of the rules should have been that Fed space is worth no VCs. Maybe then the Roms on GW5 would have fought an honest campaign.

I seems to me the coalition tactics are working quite well given the setup of the VCs, if you have a problem with the VCs why are you complaining about the players on the other side?  Wouldn't the admins be a better place to take your concerns?, preferably before the start of the server.  

As for PVP fun, it's impossible to have when all the Roms are flying in squadrons of three because they're a bunch of f*cking pussies!

Then use some brains and try to jump individual ships as they move between hexes as one moves in and the other a bit later to draft, rather than calling the other side names for having the intelligence to use a strategy that is in their favor.

Josh take a break and reconsider your position, remember it is just a game.

[el-Karnak]

Maybe the time has come to take a roll call of the remaining Alliance players willing to play D2 continously and the Good Guys; particularly the Feds, in order to see exactly what the situation is Alliance player numbers-wise.  It'll be pretty easy to validate which ones on the roll call actually play on D2 dynas.

[FPF-DieHard]

Maybe the time has come to take a roll call of the remaining Alliance players willing to play D2 continously and the Good Guys; particularly the Feds, in order to see exactly what the situation is Alliance player numbers-wise.  It'll be pretty easy to validate which ones on the roll call actually play on D2 dynas.

I know EXACTLY waht went wrong.  The Alliance DOESN"T HAVE AN RM.  Nobody "pimp'd" for this server.   

Kroma and I are kinda defacto leaders but us Admin, we simply did not have time to Pimp our HOs.

This is our fault as admins, we dropped the ball.  We should have made sure the Alliance had a Zealous RM before going forward.

This will not happen again as Hexx will be the Alliance RM from now on!

[Hexx]

No, no I really think Josh should be allowed to continue this tirade.
Really
It's kinda amusing in a sad sort of way.

"Impossible to have PVP fun"
"Strategic Nature of the Genral War"
<snicker>

[Hexx]

Maybe the time has come to take a roll call of the remaining Alliance players willing to play D2 continously and the Good Guys; particularly the Feds, in order to see exactly what the situation is Alliance player numbers-wise.  It'll be pretty easy to validate which ones on the roll call actually play on D2 dynas.

I know EXACTLY waht went wrong.  The Alliance DOESN"T HAVE AN RM.  Nobody "pimp'd" for this server.   

Kroma and I are kinda defacto leaders but us Admin, we simply did not have time to Pimp our HOs.

This is our fault as admins, we dropped the ball.  We should have made sure the Alliance had a Zealous RM before going forward.

This will not happen again as Hexx will be the Alliance RM from now on!

Errrrr
Suddenly this thread isn't amusing anymore..

.
Although if you put Lyrans in the Alliance camp ...
And the "zealous Rm"=me is kinda funny..

[Ravok]

Josh let me give you some advice from someone who has been in a real war.

  1 War is never fair, and both sides are never even.
  2 No matter what plans you make, or strategy you plan for, will work the way you want it to. (S#it happens)
  3 You enemy is going to do his darnedest not to cooperate with you. Or do what you expect them to do.

  Adaptation and working with you have are the order of the day. Not logic and planning.

  As we used to say in the USAF. Suck it up and deal with it. THAT is the sign of a good commander.

 If you want order and logic go work in supply, and stay off the battlefield.

[FPF-DieHard]

BOTTOME LINE:   This server is not important enough to flame each other over.

If the Federation AI gets wiped out, so what?   There will be a new server soon enough.  In the meantime going out drinking an whoring, visit your family, go for a walk in the sun, life goes on.

It's a fricking game, understand that and it gets better.

[FPF-DieHard]

"Strategic Nature of the Genral War"
<snicker>

"Strategic Nature of D2" is even funnier 

[KBF-Butcher]

The bottom line is that the Coalition (welll done to them) are a lot better organised than us in GW5 and have gotten more players on the server - Big Deal

 good post Davey  

After i played everything: ladders ,TBPV divisional  leagues , league campaigns ,gsa tournaments,league tournaments,dynaverse campaigns i found out that the most dissapointing thing in sfc is that the side that loose 99,99% of the times never admit that the opponent was just f*cking better.
U always hear "u cheat , u fly cheese ,u lag ,u r always in EM mode(aye i have heard that too), u drop, thats unfair and whining and more whining.
They blame everything  except of thereselves!
Ofcourse thank god there are exceptions and 2 recent players that come to my mind are Davey and DH(PBR league) and have my honest respect.

Now as for this server I d like to clarify some things as i am one of the most frequently players in this server(i play every day 10-14hours).
U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!
Weeks before the server starts LK and Hexx were working to gather as many people as possible.Those people(1 of them was me) brought more.
Oh well how many sign ups did we have around 50?Only 25-30 people  of them actually played in this server till now but those people when they joined the server knew exactly what their job was and what they should do no matter if they were outnumbered(coallition pilots were outnumbered many times).
What the alliance pilots did: They joined the server they looked around they noticed they were 6 coallition pilots and 1 alliance then they log off.
They lost their ship they log off.
I remember the 3rd day monday(from 5:00amEST till 17:00pmEST)  i was in the server 12 hours and we were around 5-8  coallition pilots.I saw more than 15-20 different alliance pilots who joined the server and log off immediately when they noticed they were only 1 or 2 alliance pilots online.Oh well if all those had stayed they would have a worthy number of pilots to defend their space.

Weeks before the server starts many discussions about ,team speak,rom ship tactics, strategy , people availability, day shift and night shift plan,ships transfers, rules ,GW5 shiplist , was taking place at the Coallition forum(Bozobits)  and everything were ready perfect organised to go to war.
In the meantime i was looking at alliance group post rate(watching the group's last post) and it was really disappointing.

The coallition machine just  worked perfect thanks to the RM/ARM s and everyone that involved
Now  regroup go back to war and lets have fun

[FPF-DieHard]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?   

[Kroma BaSyl]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Another graduate of the Dogmatics Institute for Higher Mathematics demonstrating his skills.

Butcher you can deride the Alliance for quitting in the face of insurmountable odds, but the same has happened when the tables were turned on other servers. In all such cases a few die hards usually tough it out because they either feel committed to finishing what they started or are having fun in a target rich environment. I don't blame anyone for quitting if it ain't fun.

Server numbers balance is a hard thing to predict, I was completely surprised by this one, thought it would go the other way, thus certain rules such as not allowing allied LOS through Gorn/Fed space was left in. Hopefully the next server with be a little better balanced in numbers. Hats off to Krueg for rallying the troops.


XOXOXOXO
Kroma

PS, Josh STFU, if the numbers are bugging you switch sides. <snicker>

[Kroma BaSyl]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?   

LOL, you stole my line....

[Bonk]

Where's Maverick when ya need im eh?  
Freighter hell can be fun with the right amount of beer, scotch and smokes... 

Keep it cool on the thread here guys. No need to get too worked up about it.

[KBF-Butcher]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?

LOL, you stole my line....

My point was  and i explained it that doesnt matter how many troops u have but how much time u spend to train them organise them and how u put them in the battlefield.
There are more that i can write f.ex we had always at least 1 DN flying in the server in 24hours basis so that was another reason why many alliance pilots quit playing or log off as they got dissapointed...etc
Alliance did have a good number(dam i told u we were around 30pilots that actually played in this server) of pilots when the server begun they just looked  and end up very few cause coallition had an Ace ..that was LordKrueg.

How much more clear i have to make u to get my point or maybe see the facts?
Dont u know about the 300 hundrends Greeks of Leonidas vs the 40000Persians at the  Thermopyles war ?
 

[FPF-DieHard]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?

LOL, you stole my line....

My point was  and i explained it that doesnt matter how many troops u have but how much time u spend to train them organise them and how u put them in the battlefield.
There are more that i can write f.ex we had always at least 1 DN flying in the server in 24hours basis so that was another reason why many alliance pilots quit playing or log off as they got dissapointed...etc
Alliance did have a good number(dam i told u we were around 30pilots that actually played in this server) of pilots when the server begun they just looked  and end up very few cause coallition had an Ace ..that was LordKrueg.

How much more clear i have to make u to get my point or maybe see the facts?
Dont u know about the 300 hundrends Greeks of Leonidas vs the 40000Persians at the  Thermopyles war ?
 

Now I am convince, when did Dogmatix move to Greece

[Kroma BaSyl]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?

LOL, you stole my line....

My point was  and i explained it that doesnt matter how many troops u have but how much time u spend to train them organise them and how u put them in the battlefield.

We understood your point, it is just that it is completely wrong. At a certian point in a player numbers imbalance, the total missions that can be flown by one team verses the other for DV shifts gets to a point where no amount of planning can make a difference. This is the nature of the D2 game engine, and has been discussed on this forum adnausium, you are to be excused for not realizing this because you are fairly new to the D2, but this is the way it has always been.

No amount of planning or personal bravery and skill on the battle field can over come a numbers imbalance at a certian point due to the fact that 90% of missions flown end up being vs the AI and no opposing player is even involved.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Pardon my language, Chuut, but f*ck that! For future reference, the jackass Klinks who have such a damned hardon for the feds should not be allowed to fly on a server where it's one Coalition race(Romulans) versus 2 Alliance races with the Feds as junior partners and only having a minor amount of territory. Because those pilots would, as they did this time, insist on steamrolling what little fed space there is, when the truth is, it's unrealistic. In a real war scenario, when such a wholesale invasion was being made, the Federation would have dispatched at least a battlegroup, if not an entire fleet. The Romulan Incursion would have been beaten back soundly, while the Gorn would have taken the cue to invade Romulan Space wholesale while the Romulan border was so poorly defended.

This server in no way reflects the strategic nature of the actual General War. What it does refect is a number of assholes deciding they're going to throw real tactics out the window and get rid of the Federation at all costs on this server because they've got some kind of grudge. I swear, one of the rules should have been that Fed space is worth no VCs. Maybe then the Roms on GW5 would have fought an honest campaign.

As for PVP fun, it's impossible to have when all the Roms are flying in squadrons of three because they're a bunch of f*cking pussies!

It was my idea to hit the Feds hard and let the Gorn alone. The idea behind this was because the Roms can fight the Gorns on pretty even terms, plasma vs plasma. The Feds however, had the edge once fast drones came out and the Fed fighters would have been next to impossible to fight if they could get enough carriers on the board. Therefore, the best hope was to cripple the Fed economy and demoralize the Fed pilots before fast drones came out.
And it worked perfectly. 
Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war.

And, geez, it is still just a game....maybe you should try decaf...

[Kroma BaSyl]

Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war.

And, geez, it is still just a game....maybe you should try decaf...

Yes it is just a game, to bad you didn't realize that and have now ruined the fun for all. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war.

And, geez, it is still just a game....maybe you should try decaf...

Yes it is just a game, to bad you didn't realize that and have now ruined the fun for all. 

Um, we were demoralized? I must have misssed the memo.   

[Corbomite]

Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war.

And, geez, it is still just a game....maybe you should try decaf...

Yes it is just a game, to bad you didn't realize that and have now ruined the fun for all. 

Um, we were demoralized? I must have misssed the memo.   

Yeah we've been under staffed, but morale has been pretty good actually, well except for Josh. 

[KBF-Butcher]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?

LOL, you stole my line....

My point was  and i explained it that doesnt matter how many troops u have but how much time u spend to train them organise them and how u put them in the battlefield.

We understood your point, it is just that it is completely wrong. At a certian point in a player numbers imbalance, the total missions that can be flown by one team verses the other for DV shifts gets to a point where no amount of planning can make a difference. This is the nature of the D2 game engine, and has been discussed on this forum adnausium, you are to be excused for not realizing this because you are fairly new to the D2, but this is the way it has always been.

No amount of planning or personal bravery and skill on the battle field can over come a numbers imbalance at a certian point due to the fact that 90% of missions flown end up being vs the AI and no opposing player is even involved.

Why do i have to repeat myself there isnt here my point but just the facts.
U guys became outnumbered due to the reasons i described above.
We were more organised we had a plan we had a Leader the outcome was many fed/gorn pilots to get dissapointed and quit or play less than they could.Yes WE forced u to look or be outnumbered.


p.s:Dont worry Kroma im new to dynaverse but this is already my 3rd server and have spend many hours playing and i know that other things count more than the pilots skill and these are the things i described but u guys just dont wanna get it.

Now im gonna take out my CNHF

[Kroma BaSyl]

Why do i have to repeat myself there isnt here my point but just the facts.
U guys became outnumbered due to the reasons i described above.
We were more organised we had a plan we had a Leader the outcome was many fed/gorn pilots to get dissapointed and quit or play less than they could.Yes WE forced u to look or be outnumbered.

You are just wrong about this, what can I say. No players that started the server, left the server. The same basic core of the alliance remained. You just had a larger core. You simply don't know what you are talking about as usual.

[KBF-Butcher]

Why do i have to repeat myself there isnt here my point but just the facts.
U guys became outnumbered due to the reasons i described above.
We were more organised we had a plan we had a Leader the outcome was many fed/gorn pilots to get dissapointed and quit or play less than they could.Yes WE forced u to look or be outnumbered.

You are just wrong about this, what can I say. No players that started the server, left the server. The same basic core of the alliance remained. You just had a larger core. You simply don't know what you are talking about as usual.

  Oook Kroma if that makes u happy so be it im not gonna quote my post for u or continue this thing any further.
U simply will never  admit u lost cause your opponent was just better as usual.

[Hexx]

Can all of you (including you Butcher) just shut the hell up?

I'm going to miss Josh's next post if I have to sort through all these..

[Dallas]

Ok guys, let's keep the punches above the belt.   

CaptJosh's little hissy fit has been edited.

[WarSears]

I hope you can all forgive me for this but I have been waiting for a long time to post this.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Why do i have to repeat myself there isnt here my point but just the facts.
U guys became outnumbered due to the reasons i described above.
We were more organised we had a plan we had a Leader the outcome was many fed/gorn pilots to get dissapointed and quit or play less than they could.Yes WE forced u to look or be outnumbered.

You are just wrong about this, what can I say. No players that started the server, left the server. The same basic core of the alliance remained. You just had a larger core. You simply don't know what you are talking about as usual.

  Oook Kroma if that makes u happy so be it im not gonna quote my post for u or continue this thing any further.
U simply will never  admit u lost cause your opponent was just better as usual.

Huh? I fully admit that Krueg did a bang up job of recruiting, and he always has a solid plan of attack. No doubt about it. Hats off. Recruiting more players is good for the dyna in the long run. But the fact remains that sometimes the total number of missions runs can determine the outcome of a server if that number is way out of balance. This is clearly the case here.

You are a fool to be stating that I can't admit I lost for any reason. Anyone that knows me knows I don't even play on the dyna for winning or losing a campain. I play for fun, and often switch sides if I think things are imbalanced. I delirately stay out of campaign strategic consideration because of this.

As usual you are acting like a gloating poor sport though. Grow up.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I hope you can all forgive me for this but I have been waiting for a long time to post this.

LMAO....

However it would be more apropos if those were dead droids (AI) Darth was walking over. <snicker>

[WarSears]

Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war.

And, geez, it is still just a game....maybe you should try decaf...

Yes it is just a game, to bad you didn't realize that and have now ruined the fun for all. 

Kroma sometime I think you just cant wait for LordKruge to post so you you can find something to harp on him about.

What he said wasn't that bad and if you had your fun ruined you are more thin skeined than I was the first day I tyred to quit smoking.

[WarSears]

I hope you can all forgive me for this but I have been waiting for a long time to post this.

LMAO....

However it would be more apropos if those were dead droids (AI) Darth was walking over. <snicker>

  What ever   

[Kroma BaSyl]

Demoralization of the enemy is as important as killing them in any war.

And, geez, it is still just a game....maybe you should try decaf...

Yes it is just a game, to bad you didn't realize that and have now ruined the fun for all. 

Kroma sometime I think you just cant wait for LordKruge to post so you you can find something to harp on him about.

What he said wasn't that bad and if you had your fun ruined you are more thin skeined than I was the first day I tyred to quit smoking.

If you think I am singling out Krueg for poor behavior, then you should put aside your own racial bias and read my posts to Allaince pilots race leaders that have done the same. Just ask Bach or t00l how sore they are from my bitch slappings. I have actually used kid gloves on Krueg.

[Lepton]

I am sure that you won't be surprised to find out that I agree with Josh's points no matter in what tone they are delivered.  Player numbers balance is a huge issue and has been killing the D2 slowly for years.  What I can never understand is the "it's only a game" arguement.  If that were so, no one would mind switching sides to even out the player numbers.  You don't play a game of pick-up basketball by having one side populated with 20 people because they are all friends and enjoy playing on the same side, while the other team has like 3 guys on it because they always hang out together.  The fact is clear that people take these servers way too seriously.  Witness Krueg's statement about demoralization.  What's up with that?  This is supposed to be fun, not demoralizing.  Not that I am picking on Krueg, far from it.  It is merely illustrative of a general attitude that says "I want my side to win" as opposed to "let's be fair".  I wouldn't want to be involved in a server with large player imbalances on the losing or the winning side.  One side is frustrating and pointless, the other is boring and pointless.

My suggested solution would be this.  All players who wish to play on a D2 server need to be willing to play both sides.  Any time a player logs on, he must assess the numbers of players per side and join the one with the least.  Pretty simple.  This player numbers issue is a problem with almost any online game with a persistent server (my frame of reference here is a flight simulator game I play that has persistent servers).  I still have yet to see it dealt with effectively in any game.  Ultimately, it ends up being dependent on the charity of a few who hate the inbalance situation to sacrifice their prefered side to try and balance things out.  Or things stay unbalanced and one side basically leaves.  I have never really cared what side I have played on in the D2 or what race I fly.  If everyone were the same, I think things would be alot better here and servers would continue to be competitive for their lifetime.

As for strategic planning with such a solution, I might just insulate players from the general strategic planning done by the race leaders and have a selected few such as RMs and FMs aware of those plans and directing players' strategic movements.  It would potentially dilute the fog of war, but I think that can be sacrificed for some player balance and general overall fairness in gameplay.

[Ravok]

I hope you can all forgive me for this but I have been waiting for a long time to post this.

  +1 for you! Ineeded a good laugh.

[Pojo92]

C'mon guys, can't everyone just please lighten up and remind yourselves that this is a game?  `


Nobody likes to lose, and on some level it "tweaks" all of us when it happens, but fer cryin' out loud: "Are we not Men!?!?" (Androgenous game personas aside, of course.)  It just doesn't pay to either make this personal or, conversely, to take it personally.  It's supposed to be fun, folks!  And while I would rather blow someone up myself in game, there is a certain amount of self deprecating laughter when (as is usually the case) I get waxed.  Most of the fun for me is in the playing.  

As for these flame wars that seem to keep popping up:  A certain amount of "woofing" is going to occur with any hotly contested game, but the fact that our games are occuring on the net, without the advent of face to face communications, substantially increases the likelihood of miscommunication and/or hard feelings.  It is so much easier to sound short, harsh or rude in an email or message board post, and our societies' emphasis on speed and brevity has only exacerbated this syndrome. Please, everyone, avail yourselves of one of the great advantages of message board posting--It is written!  You can review it before you post it!  You can edit it if it sounds like it might be too harsh!  These are things we can not do with spoken words that sometimes fly out of our mouths, but it seems as if precious few people take advantage of the opportunity to review their written words and instead treat them just as they would their spoken speach.  

I was gulity once of going overboard in response to a loss on these boards, and flaming another member of the community, and I am not proud of it.  It is not a good feeling and it is not the reason I, and I am sure most of you, come to these forums and to the D-II.  I am sure that the vast majority of the folks here, if not all, are good people who are here to have a good time.  Please try to remember that lest we hasten the demise of a good game.

Anyway, I have had alot of fun doing this, even when I have gotten smoked.  It has been cool to see my team rolling accross the map, but it has also been cool to see the Alliance players working hard to fight back, even when outnumbered.  I know there have been a couple of stretches where progress has been extremely difficult, even with the numbers advantage.  So, hats off to the Alliance!

Oh, and I forgot to cue the touching/dramatic musical backscore at the beginning of my post.  Maybe someone can provide one for me.

Pojo (annoyingly clueless Noob.)

[Matsukasi]

It isn't the first time it has happened, anyhow, I remember switching sides on Ragnarok from Kzin to Klingon when a similar situation happened, the Klingon economy was so wrecked I started in a freighter as did Matsukasi and a couple of others. 

I still remember getting all giddy when I earned enough PP for an F5C. Pretty gratifying at the time. Winging with another freighter makes you appreciate having a wingman even more. " Get over here!!!!! I need your ph-3 now DAMMIT CHUUT!!!!!! "

Good times.

Every thread like this after a major server leaves me with the same deja-vu from ....i dunno.... 5 or 6 years ago? The more things change...yadda yadda. I'm not about to judge, since I've been on the slapped down side and come here to bitch about it. I honestly don't think I have anything left in the tank for a " serious " server anymore. Mat is likely retired from dyna duty, though I might pop in under some pseudonym from time to time since I'm an OG crack whore from the M-Pig days. I just don't want to let go of friends and such, but the fun of the game is just...... gone now.

At least for me.

I didn't start this post as an " I quit " sort of thing, though. Chuut just reminded me of a -- dare I say it -- simpler time on the D2, and it made me smile. Thanks for that, Chuut... and to everyone else that ever burned a D2 moment into my brain. I'll spare you all a list, but hopefully you'll take a few moments to think about your D2 memories and ponder them before the next time someone starts a thread like this one.

[Corbomite]

I had a real problem with the player numbers on this server. To be honest, there just weren't enough Roms. Did you know that I actually had to fight AI (and Hexx) for several missions because there weren't enough Romulans on for me to get a PvP every mission! What kind of crap is that I ask you?! The Coalition is just going to have to step it up from now on or I'm afraid I won't be playing anymore. If they can't find enough players to be able to field a force capable of keeping me busy for hours a night then I'm outta here! I paid good money for this game and I'll be damned if I'm going to get shafted by such a lackluster turnout by my opponents. Obviously they don't take this having fun stuff seriously at all! Sheesh! Some people!

[Mog]

snip

 The fact is clear that people take these servers way too seriously.  Witness Krueg's statement about demoralization.  What's up with that?  This is supposed to be fun, not demoralizing.  Not that I am picking on Krueg, far from it.  It is merely illustrative of a general attitude that says "I want my side to win" as opposed to "let's be fair".  I wouldn't want to be involved in a server with large player imbalances on the losing or the winning side.  One side is frustrating and pointless, the other is boring and pointless.

snip

Fully in agreement with this, and it's not a recent phenomenon either. It harks all the way back to the beginning of D2. The "us and them" attitude is a right turnoff. I can put this down as one of the myriad reasons why I feel little desire to play any more (proliferation of carriers/tenders, over the top wing combinations, to name a couple more).

As for Mat's post, nods in understanding to that too. Though I struggle to look back at Ragnarok with much fondness, lol. Between that and Herr Burt's 4 Powers War, it's hard to decide on which it was more painful to play as Klingon.

All that being said, i've had some wonderful times playing this game, and I hope there'll be some more in the future.

[KBF-Butcher]

Why do i have to repeat myself there isnt here my point but just the facts.
U guys became outnumbered due to the reasons i described above.
We were more organised we had a plan we had a Leader the outcome was many fed/gorn pilots to get dissapointed and quit or play less than they could.Yes WE forced u to look or be outnumbered.

You are just wrong about this, what can I say. No players that started the server, left the server. The same basic core of the alliance remained. You just had a larger core. You simply don't know what you are talking about as usual.

  Oook Kroma if that makes u happy so be it im not gonna quote my post for u or continue this thing any further.
U simply will never  admit u lost cause your opponent was just better as usual.

Huh? I fully admit that Krueg did a bang up job of recruiting, and he always has a solid plan of attack. No doubt about it. Hats off. Recruiting more players is good for the dyna in the long run. But the fact remains that sometimes the total number of missions runs can determine the outcome of a server if that number is way out of balance. This is clearly the case here.

You are a fool to be stating that I can't admit I lost for any reason. Anyone that knows me knows I don't even play on the dyna for winning or losing a campain. I play for fun, and often switch sides if I think things are imbalanced. I delirately stay out of campaign strategic consideration because of this.

As usual you are acting like a gloating poor sport though. Grow up.

Im gloating?
U were gloating all the server now and now u r whining as usual.
Whatever ....

[Corbomite]

Kroma did you ever get the impression its all Greek to him? 

[Kroma BaSyl]

Im gloating?
U were gloating all the server now and now u r whining as usual.
Whatever ....

I was merely inspiring your troops. 

Honestly Butcher I am thinking the language barrier is causing you not to precieve when I am joking. Most players know that I kid around a lot and talk of my prowess in battle as a joke much like Hexx does, it just isn't as obvious because I don't suck as bad as he does. Note thread of me having my way with his ship.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Kroma did you ever get the impression its all Greek to him? 

I have wanted to use that expression all server as a way to explian to him we just weren't communicating and he wasn't understanding the intent or meaning of my posts. I think he actually believes I am serious when I talk about my conquests and challenges, or maybe he is just compensating for is feelings of inferiority in the face of such Reptilian Beauty, Charm and Skill. Yeah, probaly the later.

[Evil Kraven]

LOL, I'm not even gonna touch this one. although............

DH, you made me laugh my ass off on this. way to keep it light.

war sears, too fricken funny man LOL.


all honesty Kadus to allience pilots for fighting the good fight. lots of respect for those who continue agianst all odds. hats off to all of you.

Krueg, what can I say brother. still to early to open the champaign as you continuously remind us, but you've done a great job.

even in the worst of times I've had fun here (and my firewall issues with XP are preventing me from 2v1's, 2v2's etc etc etc...I can do 1v1 though or 2 vs the AI on this server) and will continue too. although I have a gluten for punishment I'm gonna go allience for gw6 just to help with the numbers. can anyone sneak a mirak ship on the fed list I can fly??? lol.

sure we all have personalities in what ever community your in. some rub ya the wrong way, some rub ya the right way. I've found in my time to ignore those who piss on your shoes, just dry them off. cause sometimes when you piss back you wind up with the wind agiasnt you and your own shoes still get pissed on.

although its kinda funny to watch a pissing contest sometimes.

"The Evil One"
Kraven

[el-Karnak]

I hope you can all forgive me for this but I have been waiting for a long time to post this.

 

Wanted: Alliance RM.  Pay commensurate with...nothing. But, pride counts for a lot.

Duties:  Lead the fraking frickin' nastiest Good Guys in the D2 universe to victory against the fraking frikin' nicest Bad Guys.

Requirements:

• Will never be a Wade on the public forums.
• Will never let anyone mess with their team in the private forums.
• Will recruit, recruit, recruit, recruit.
• Will train, train, train, train.
• Will plan, plan, plan, plan.
• Will play, play, play, play.
• Will keep TS cussin' Lord Vader "DH" on a leash at all times.
• Will keep Kroma quarantined for health reasons at all times.
• Will never be afraid to use Hexx as AI fodder.
• Passion for the game is a must.
• Diplomatic enough to not piss off the allies of convienence, but assertive enough to make them do your bidding. *snicker*
• Previous ARM, RM experience preferred but not required.

[Hexx]

Please, I'll friggin lead the snivelling Feds to victory on the next damn server.
Despite everything mean and nasty said about me I do have the shining quality
of having absolutely no loyalty to any of you.

My only condition is that Kroma flies Fed with me as despite a certain... modicum of skill he has for using
the stupid ^*&(@&*@(&(@) plasma, he has got to be the worst CB pilot I've ever heard of.

And bonus points for the poster Sears, God that was funny.
(Don't suppose you have a larger version of it?)

[Kroma BaSyl]

My only condition is that Kroma flies Fed with me as despite a certain... modicum of skill he has for using
the stupid ^*&(@&*@(&(@) plasma, he has got to be the worst CB pilot I've ever heard of.

Much like when I had my way with you the other day, I had to be very drunk to preform such an act.

[Hexx]

My only condition is that Kroma flies Fed with me as despite a certain... modicum of skill he has for using
the stupid ^*&(@&*@(&(@) plasma, he has got to be the worst CB pilot I've ever heard of.

Much like when I had my way with you the other day, I had to be very drunk to preform such an act.

Given your choice in sports paraphernalia I had naturally assumed you were wasted 24/7

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Yeah, know what?  I am tired as hell.  I am also sick and tired of assholes ruining my favorite game.

Between work, a softball team, lifting, getting my taxes together, and trying to play GW... I am burnt out. 

I came home this past Friday and crashed. I slept most of Saturday also.  I played as much as I could over the weekend, and for a few hours on Monday, for the first time all server that I saw, the alliance outnumbered the coalition for a few hours.

Other than that, I have consistantly seen the odds being 2+ to 1 in the coalition's favor.  Several times, I have seen as high as 8-9 to 1.  Not once did I hear an offer from someone to switch.  Even from the people who played coalition to balance out numbers b/c they were in the alliance's favor for a few servers before GW1 started.

I have played as much as I could, but it has been a pitance compared to past servers.  I just haven't had the time, and when I have, I have been too tired to even think straight, let alone offer a decent fight to a human opponent in PvP.

I have stayed off GW5 the past 2 days trying to catch up on sleep. 

Now I am considering calling it quits for this entire game.

Seven years I have been playing SFC I, EAW, or OP..... and for the first time, I think it may be time to move on.

I watched the crap that was pulled against the SSFC and thought it stupid for them to be driven away by stupid people.

But after seeing the posts today, I am begining to understand why they left.

Too many people take this game too seriously.  Taking it beyond the point of fun, but to a point of trying to embarrass the opponent.

Sorry, that is not my bag.

Actually, as I write this, f*ck it, I have concluded I am done with GW5. 

CYA all on the flip side.

Don't even ask, if I come back, I come back. 

Maybe it is time to check out Eve. 

[KBF-Butcher]

Im gloating?
U were gloating all the server now and now u r whining as usual.
Whatever ....

I was merely inspiring your troops. 

Honestly Butcher I am thinking the language barrier is causing you not to precieve when I am joking. Most players know that I kid around a lot and talk of my prowess in battle as a joke much like Hexx does, it just isn't as obvious because I don't suck as bad as he does. Note thread of me having my way with his ship.

When u r gloating  and u laugh at others this is just kid around!
When others make fun of u or your team this is poor sport and ruin the fun!

Whatever...

[Grim]

Again i ask will someone lock/delete this thread or something?

It's bs like this and bickering between the races that has forced some players in the past to pack the game in (one of the reasons why the SSCF left)...The friction and bs needs to stop. Seriously for some it is taking the fun out of the game..

[Dallas]

Thread locked.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

Josh, STFU.   Flying off the handle is never constructive (trust me, I wrote the book on that).  It causes people to become defensive and support a position even if they don't 100% agree with it.  No reasonable person can say GW5 is balanced, you're going off on people will make otherwise reasonable people take an un-resaonable possition.

It is not the Coalition's fault the the majority of the Alliance pilots did not show up, it's Dizzy's (or Fluf's, you decide).

Still blame Agave and Scipio though, that's allowed 

Believe me...it is Fluf's fault.  Even in our new "world," it's always Fluf's fault. 

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Are you sure you aren't really Dogmatix in Disguise?   

Yeah..you can tell by the usage of "U"     

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

U really think the alliance was so much outnumbered??? BS i say they were just less organised than the coallition!

Another graduate of the Dogmatics Institute for Higher Mathematics demonstrating his skills.

<snip>

My, i'm a popular topic in this thread.  I miss you guys too.  lol...


It took 5 minutes and  a page and a half of posts for me to rbe reminded why I left this place.    Enjoy guys.