Topic: Why I no longer play this game.....

[FPF-AJTK]

Grim;
      We do get patches all the time. In November we got a MASSIVE patch, like going from EAW to OP. Now its April and were about to get another that will completely change large sections of the game. We also constantly get playability/bug fix patches.

I personally have TWO accounts for Eve, at 14.95 each. Being able to play whenever I want, having a CTD is like a "Wow, that hasnt happened in a long time" and if they CTD costs you a ship, you can ask the GMs and depending on the situation they might give it back!

We constantly get new ships, new skills to operate the new ships, etc.

I know pay to play isnt for some. Its fine for me. I was always one of the ones that told Taldren Id gladly pay for a live server when Eric would bring it up.

Have fun!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

If we were running PP farming servers like you suggest the number of plyers would be no greater.

If so then 18 online at once is the best you can likely hope for in the future, but perhaps AOTK II will put this to the test as it has yet to be tested seriously.

18 was JDs number, I have seen as many as 30+ the first weekend. Blamming those that run servers with rule sets they like, while doing nothing about it yourself is the real issue. More servers of all types, without the big gaps between them is what would have kept more players around. I have seen several people using their rose colored glasses talking about past unrestricted servers, many of the same people that bitched then about all the cheese. OOB didn't just come out of the ether, and if non-restricted was the magic bullet that would have kept the player numbers from dropping over time then I am sure more admins would have run them. As it is I don't think anything can keep the game going forever, players will continue to leave as the game gets older. Some will claim because of to many restriction others to few.

I don't think anyone was casting any blame at those who take their own time and effort into putting up a server of any kind.  Its only natural that they would follow their visions of doing so.  I think different players are looking for different things in the game.  Likely totally unrestricted servers have in the past driven off as many players as the more recent heavily restricted ones, as well as time taking its toll on an old game.

When servers were non restricted everytime it got old for some, just like with heavily restricted servers running one after the other are now.  Having a good mix may be the key to maintaining what numbers remain and hopefully bringing some back.  The willingness to play on servers that don't exactly suit you is alot easier if you think the next one might be more to your liking.  It also might make you more willing to participate so that those with the different vision from your own might participate in the server type that you like when it arrives.

[FPF-DieHard]

Um, why are we arguing?   I think everyone is agreeing that the next server should be a hell of a lot more open and the next J'inn/Kroma/DH production WILL be extremly open.

Again, why are we arguing?

[Hexx]

Um, why are we arguing?   I think everyone is agreeing that the next server should be a hell of a lot more open and the next J'inn/Kroma/DH production WILL be extremly open.

Again, why are we arguing?

I thought anything involving Kroma was pretty open already..

[Kroma BaSyl]

Um, why are we arguing?   I think everyone is agreeing that the next server should be a hell of a lot more open and the next J'inn/Kroma/DH production WILL be extremly open.

Again, why are we arguing?

I thought anything involving Kroma was pretty open already..

Much like Hexx's venting ship hulls. <snicker>

[Kroma BaSyl]

I don't think anyone was casting any blame at those who take their own time and effort into putting up a server of any kind.

When players come in and saying restricted servers are what is driving players out of the D2, and implying that this is why D2 numbers have dropped, then I have to disagree that they are blamming those that put the few servers up for the demise of the D2. The real reason that players that prefer open servers are being driven off isn't because someone else puts up a restricted server, it is becasue no one including the complainers have put up a non-restricted server. What bothers me isn't what they say but how they say it. I agree that some players have left or not played due to the only servers available of late being OOB and that not being their thing, but that isn't the same as their implication that OOB servers are causing the reduction in total player numbers in the D2. It is the lack of anyone else, including those that have left, running alternatives, and not the fault of the few OOB servers that there have been.  Most of the folks that are gripping about it have remained idol and simply cast stones relying on the few folks that spend their time creating and testing the only remaining servers. They have no one to blame but themselves for the lack of variety.

Its only natural that they would follow their visions of doing so.  I think different players are looking for different things in the game.  Likely totally unrestricted servers have in the past driven off as many players as the more recent heavily restricted ones, as well as time taking its toll on an old game.

When servers were non restricted everytime it got old for some, just like with heavily restricted servers running one after the other are now.  Having a good mix may be the key to maintaining what numbers remain and hopefully bringing some back.  The willingness to play on servers that don't exactly suit you is alot easier if you think the next one might be more to your liking.  It also might make you more willing to participate so that those with the different vision from your own might participate in the server type that you like when it arrives.

I pretty much agree with this and have played on unrestricted servers as avidly as OOB servers. The issue however, isn't my and others willingness to participate by playing on servers that aren't necessarily our preference, it is that fact that there has been no one else putting up these unrestricted servers to play on and folks expecting those that have put on the restricted servers to cater to them instead of doing it themselves. Those preferring unrestricted servers need to put up or shut up and wait until the few folks investing their energies feel like running a non-restricted server, which lucky for themm shouldn't be to long.

Now before you whiners start bitching about me slapping you around and complaining that not listening to the players concerns is bad form, I will repeat this. I like the idea of having an unrestricted server and agree with the input and apprieciate the feedback for it's informational value. I think we need an unrestricted server without PvP VCs and a limited DN/BCH system that actually incourages more pilots getting a chance to fly them and putting them at greater risk. It is time for a bit of capital ship carnage. What I disagree with is people implying the game is being ruined and players driven off because no one else had been willing to spend their efforts creating the type of server the complainers wish for. There is a right way and wrong way to give feedback, and for the record I think JDs post was the right way, but I have seen several others of late make the direct statement or implication that it is the OOB servers fault for driving away players, when it is really the lack of an alternative and initiative of the complainers themselves.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

You are correct in that point Kroma that none of the non heavy OOB severs have had the promotion or diligent attention to detail that would make for a major server in the recent past.  But is it any wonder that those who prefer a more casual dyna environment are also the ones who are less technically oriented while those who prefer lots of little details tend to be those with the computer expertise?  I think the personality type of the various players might have something to do with it, with the player not lacking in a willingness but rather in an ableness. 

If any tech types want to hold my hand and walk me through how to do that stuff I'd be more than willing to learn, but be prepared for a certain amount of frustration as I would have to be taught the most basic aspects step by slow step.  I just know that I've seen a frustrated reply to some of my questions in the past because I didn't know some basic technical fact, and made to feel like I was a bother for asking.  Likely I just caught someone at the wrong time, but how many of those experiences does it take to make you stop asking?

As of now, I myself have no clue about how to do a server, yet I have definate ideas on what I like about various servers and what I dislike.  I am more than willing to devote what time and services I can to any server team, but there is no way that I could do a stable server on my own.  So if anyone wants any help with server promotion,map ideas, looking at the ships and fighters for the shiplist (although I don't know how to do the technical aspect of the list), VC and rules design, fleeting rules etc, just let me know and I'm yours.  But if you need to adjust computer settings, do mission scripting, use donor ships, move hardpoints on the list, etc, I'm not your guy.

It would be kinda cool if there was a guide written about how to do the different aspects of a server, that went through each process step by step so no one needed to be bothered.  This reasource could be added to and ammended as new aspects arose.

All that being said let me express my humblest apologies to anyone who has taken the time to put up a server of any kind if they felt that I have blammed them for anything regarding the decline in player numbers or other such criticisms, rather than express my opinions on the issue in a more constructive way.  I just preferred to express my views rather "than put up or shut up" as I lacked the skills to "put up" and didn't feel like "shutting up" and haven't yet chosen the third unspoken option of "walking away".  In no way did I mean to criticize your hard work, but likely it would at times come across as such due to frustration on my part, and for that I apologize.

[KAT J'inn]

Chuut:

It's really not that hard for a basic server.    Evil Dave made up a booklet that is on a website that covers a lot of the basics.   Someone will post a link I hope.

Using that will really get you started.

Feel free to call me about the server stuff anytime.

As for shiplists . . . . .

I'd suggest starting slow.  Make your first server with a stock list or <cough> steal a list from a server you liked.

As for Maps . . . .

They are easy.   I can walk anyone through one.

Mission scripts . . . .

Hey we are stuck with what we got for now. 



If I can do it, anyone can.  True, DH is doing most all the work now, but I basically taught it too myself for GW1.   Of course I pestered a lot of people.   Jeff is a great reasource as well as Dizzy.   Then there is always <shudder> Nail.

I hate computers.   I can't program.  Don't want to even.  But most fo this stuff requires basic common sense and an understanding that computers are crappy pieces of crapola that don't work right.

But then there is the time issue.   It does take a good deal of time.

The other big issue is the server issue.  You have to find a host.  That's a problem.

[FPF-DieHard]

The other big issue is the server issue.  You have to find a host.  That's a problem.

No it's not .. .   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Chuut:

It's really not that hard for a basic server.    Evil Dave made up a booklet that is on a website that covers a lot of the basics.   Someone will post a link I hope.

Using that will really get you started.

Feel free to call me about the server stuff anytime.

As for shiplists . . . . .

I'd suggest starting slow.  Make your first server with a stock list or <cough> steal a list from a server you liked.

As for Maps . . . .

They are easy.   I can walk anyone through one.

Mission scripts . . . .

Hey we are stuck with what we got for now. 



If I can do it, anyone can.  True, DH is doing most all the work now, but I basically taught it too myself for GW1.   Of course I pestered a lot of people.   Jeff is a great reasource as well as Dizzy.   Then there is always <shudder> Nail.

I hate computers.   I can't program.  Don't want to even.  But most fo this stuff requires basic common sense and an understanding that computers are crappy pieces of crapola that don't work right.

But then there is the time issue.   It does take a good deal of time.

The other big issue is the server issue.  You have to find a host.  That's a problem.

Ok, lets start with maps then....when can I reach you after midnight or on Thursday or Sunday?

[FPF-DieHard]

The other big issue is the server issue.  You have to find a host.  That's a problem.

No it's not .. .   

A hands off host?

Frey.   Just try not to blow up his network .  . .

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The other big issue is the server issue.  You have to find a host.  That's a problem.

No it's not .. .   

A hands off host?

Frey

cool

[KAT J'inn]

Best way to reach me is to call and make an appointment for a phone conference while we are both at a computer.    I know that sounds terribly anal . . . but my life is really that much of a pain in the butt for me.

I really do have to write it down on my calander or the vultures here at my office will schedule some BS at night like a dinner with a client or something OR  EVEN WORSE > > > >  SHOP REX ATTACK!!!

It would be easiest if I were sitting at my computer with the map editor open while on the phone with you.

Call Anytime and we can set aside a night to do this.

Seriously, I don't mind at all, I just want to make sure we set aside enough time in advance so we are not interrupted.   It'll take about 30 minutes to go over everything.



P.S.   I have to be out west starting tomorrow for 10 days.  My cell phone will work out there so go ahead and call, no problem.



P.P.S.   We'll discuss fees when you call.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Don't get me wrong DH, I'd love to have some of your insights on shiplist, balancing, etc, but I wouln't want to run anything with my name attached with someone else having the "dictortatorail powers" that you have told me you require.  If I have a "stupid" or "retarded" idea I don't mind feedback on it or blame, but I wouldn't want it changed out of my control.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Best way to reach me is to call and make an appointment for a phone conference while we are both at a computer.    I know that sounds terribly anal . . . but my life is really that much of a pain in the butt for me.

I really do have to write it down on my calander or the vultures here at my office will schedule some BS at night like a dinner with a client or something OR  EVEN WORSE > > > >  SHOP REX ATTACK!!!

It would be easiest if I were sitting at my computer with the map editor open while on the phone with you.

Call Anytime and we can set aside a night to do this.

Seriously, I don't mind at all, I just want to make sure we set aside enough time in advance so we are not interrupted.   It'll take about 30 minutes to go over everything.



P.S.   I have to be out west starting tomorrow for 10 days.  My cell phone will work out there so go ahead and call, no problem.



P.P.S.   We'll discuss fees when you call.

You realise how high the long distance bill would be?  I have to learn everything!

Just PM me when you got an open Thursday or Sunday slot and we can get on voice coms and do it.

[FPF-DieHard]

Don't get me wrong DH, I'd love to have some of your insights on shiplist, balancing, etc, but I wouln't want to run anything with my name attached with someone else having the "dictortatorail powers" that you have told me you require.  If I have a "stupid" or "retarded" idea I don't mind feedback on it or blame, but I wouldn't want it changed out of my control.

no offense taken.   I know I'm a pain to work with but it's the price you pay to have somebody else do 90% of the work 

[Hexx]

Hey J'inn
Rather than have you do the map for mirror mirror if you just post your
home and cell numbers here (I don't know when Ill be able to call) I'll give you a shout and you can tell me how
to do it as well..

[FPF-DieHard]

Hey J'inn
Rather than have you do the map for mirror mirror if you just post your
home and cell numbers here (I don't know when Ill be able to call) I'll give you a shout and you can tell me how
to do it as well..

1-900- U-Bastard 

[KAT J'inn]

Just PM me when you got an open Thursday or Sunday slot and we can get on voice coms and do it.

I wasn't too worried about the phone bill.   I've found it rather cheap if I just have the person call me.  Free in fact.  I love how that works.

Anywho,  voice comms is good also.


 

[KAT J'inn]

I know I'm a pain to work with

Gosh, I'm like a mosquito at a nudist colony here.  I don't know where to start.


Hmm just where do I start with this gem?

OW!!!  I got a headache just thinking about it.

<snicker>

Actually, yer a teddy bear DH.

Or a badger.

One or the other.   They're both cute and furry.

Besides, I've made a fortune off of the "Who Will Drive DH Over the Edge Tonight Pool"

BTW that reminds me.

762 you won last night. It was Balanger. Check is in the mail.   I think I'm going to have to lower the odds on Balanger to 1:1.  He's going to drive me to ruin otherwise.