Topic: GW 5 Balance Issues

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Damn Kraven!  And I was just about to give you a +1 Karma for managing to offend Die Hard   

[FPF-DieHard]

Then what about if the 4 khh players
KHH_Mrogue
KHH_MiniMe
KHH_EvilKraven
KHH_ShadowLord

switched and started to fly Gorn?

Do whatever you think would be the most fun.  This is a game, that is what it should be.  

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Then what about if the 4 khh players
KHH_Mrogue
KHH_MiniMe
KHH_EvilKraven
KHH_ShadowLord

switched and started to fly Gorn?

Do whatever you think would be the most fun.  This is a game, that is what it should be.  

Ok who are you?  and what have you done with Die Hard?

[FPF-DieHard]

thats Ok DH, don't go getting your .........

there I go agian, gosh darn it! you see its always a presentation thing with me. I mean to do something good for the game, but it always comes out the wrong way and I wind up getting under someones skin (sorry, did not mean to offend you).

so if you see someone on gw5 named "Kroma's Cabin Boy"........... I swear DH, its not me.


"The Evil One"
  Kraven

I like you Kraven, I just gett too defensive of the Fed players.  Old habits "die hard."

[Grim]

I personally havent had the time to play any games whatsoever, it sucks but nothing i can do, other things have to come first.

I dont want to say i told you so, but i did raise the "heated" the issue that the strict use of OOB over the past few dynas may have an impact on player numbers. It appears some of my predictions may have come true, maybe some less OOB servers in the future may get players to come back. I'm not saying the whole strict OOB concept should be scrapped but there needs to be server variety, something there doesnt seem to be annymore.

And as Chutt pointed out dynaverse is not purely for PVP, there needs to be both PVP and the strategic element within a campaign, i think its a bad idea trying to Sacrifice one for the other, there needs to be both to cater all types of player needs. And not everyone plays d2 for PVP, if you want pure pvp go play gsa thats what its there for.

[Kroma BaSyl]

thats Ok DH, don't go getting your .........

there I go agian, gosh darn it! you see its always a presentation thing with me. I mean to do something good for the game, but it always comes out the wrong way and I wind up getting under someones skin (sorry, did not mean to offend you).

so if you see someone on gw5 named "Kroma's Cabin Boy"........... I swear DH, its not me.


"The Evil One"
  Kraven

LOL....glad you posted this....I was telling DH last night that he totally miss read your comment. +karma for you Kraven.

[Kroma BaSyl]

While I do like OoB, last minute changes before GW2 cost us the entire SSCF, when the LDR was practically castrated as a fighting force. Except for Paladin and maybe a couple of others, they all went to EVE and haven't come back. I don't really blame anybody for the change, as I find LDR ships way too cheesy, but to restrict them practically the night before the server really tee'd off a lot of good players.

I would add that it wasn't so much the change that irked them, but the attitude of some players and lack of graditude in their excepting the mid server change. If you recall, even though every single change either effected both sides equally or was squarely in favor of the Coalition, it was certian vocal individuals from that side that actually griped the most about precieved mid server change persecution. It still mistifies me that anyone thinking clearly and looking at the changes made could come to the conclusion that on the whole they favored the Alliance. I even got PMs saying that the Coalition was upset that the Alliance leadership didn't thank them for allowing the changes. It was rather funny actually.

I will add that I in noway feel that this was the attitude of the Coalition player base as a whole, but rather the opinion of a very select vocal few that unfortunately caused several Alliance players to just throw up their hands and move on. Very unfortunate, as this game is no fun to play against yourself.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I dont want to say i told you so, but i did raise the "heated" the issue that the strict use of OOB over the past few dynas may have an impact on player numbers. It appears some of my predictions may have come true, maybe some less OOB servers in the future may get players to come back. I'm not saying the whole strict OOB concept should be scrapped but there needs to be server variety, something there doesnt seem to be annymore.

You can't really say you told anyone anything, until we see an non-OOB server that draws more players. That hasn't happened, and the continual decline in player numbers has never been shown to be attributable to OOB. The numbers were dropping at an even greater rate pre-OOB servers in fact.

There is an easy way to test your theory though, someone needs to run a less restrictive server and see what happens. I will play on it, but I have a theory that few will take it seriously and total numbers will be even fewer than the OOB servers of late. I would also guess that it has no direct effect on bringing in new players. Please I beg you, prove me wrong. I would actually welcome you to do so, as I what more players as well.

[FPF-DieHard]

There is an easy way to test your theory though, someone needs to run a less restrictive server and see what happens. I will play on it, but I have a theory that few will take it seriously and total numbers will be even fewer than the OOB servers of late. I would also guess that it has no direct effect on bringing in new players. Please I beg you, prove me wrong. I would actually welcome you to do so, as I what more players as well.

AOTK2 will be MUCH less restrictive.   We shall see . . .

What is very curious is that eveyone is having a lot of fun on GW5, much more fun that a few more recent servers.  Everyone who is playing at least.

[Grim]

I'm not going to get in the whole OOB or not OOB issue here we debated it on a past thread, but maybe the key issue here is not purely OOB but perhaps variation. I still feel we have lost players due to strict OOB, but i think overall we have lost more players at the simple fact there isn't enough variation annymore.

AOTK2 will be MUCH less restrictive. We shall see . . .

Even if the player numbers are low for that dyna, and there is proof that overall the playerbase is declining OOB or not, it will be good to see some variation again in campaigns (something that has been lacking), which i am looking forward to.

[Capt Jeff]

You couldn't base a non-OOB server's failure do to it's numbers if one was thrown up today.   People that got tired of the excessive amount of rules and restrictions have gone away and most would not even know that a non-OOB server was coming up.

That is why I'd like to see a relaxed campaign for the D2's 5th birthday  (End of May).   See how many people's e-mails we can dig up and see if they would be interested in trying it as a celebration of sorts.   Maybe they'll get re-hooked on SFC.

Maybe it would be just one last time to get a lot of the D2's "family"  together for a reunion......if it's SS3, I'll even offer VC awards to the side that gets the most old timers back here....

[FPF-DieHard]

You couldn't base a non-OOB server's failure do to it's numbers if one was thrown up today.   People that got tired of the excessive amount of rules and restrictions have gone away and most would not even know that a non-OOB server was coming up.

OOB was an experiement.  Honestly, I like parts of it but think we've goone to far with it.   We need to roll things back a bit.

I think 90% of the people will be happy with what we're planning for future projects. 

[Grim]

That is why I'd like to see a relaxed campaign for the D2's 5th birthday  (End of May).   See how many people's e-mails we can dig up and see if they would be interested in trying it as a celebration of sorts.   Maybe they'll get re-hooked on SFC.

Maybe it would be just one last time to get a lot of the D2's "family"  together for a reunion......if it's SS3, I'll even offer VC awards to the side that gets the most old timers back here....

Sounds Great Jeff

OOB was an experiement. Honestly, I like parts of it but think we've goone to far with it. We need to roll things back a bit.

I think 90% of the people will be happy with what we're planning for future projects.

Perhaps you are right DH,

Well some people like partial OOB and some like it excessive, in terms of my personal standpoint i was happy with the restriction when BB, DN's (perhaps BCH's) and that was it, thats just my personal standpoint obviously not everyone would agree with that. Seemed to me it got excessive as it went along when it shifted towards some of the lower class ships.

Although it was understandable for the GW series due to the historical standpoint.

[FPF-DieHard]

Well some people like partial OOB and some like it excessive, in terms of my personal standpoint i was happy with the restriction when BB, DN's (perhaps BCH's) and that was it, thats just my personal standpoint obviously not everyone would agree with that. Seemed to me it got excessive as it went along when it shifted towards some of the lower class ships.

Yes, that was a fun experiment but required too much accounting and to be honest, we were all still swimming in ships by the 3rd build cycle.

[KAT J'inn]

While I do like OoB, last minute changes before GW2 cost us the entire SSCF, when the LDR was practically castrated as a fighting force. Except for Paladin and maybe a couple of others, they all went to EVE and haven't come back. I don't really blame anybody for the change, as I find LDR ships way too cheesy, but to restrict them practically the night before the server really tee'd off a lot of good players.

Yeah that was a boo boo.   It was a problem of me not thinking things thru enough.   It tends to happen when you are slapping stuff together like this.   I shocks me that people would get so upset that they would just quit the entire game over something like that.   Sitting out a server I can see, but to toss out something you paid good money for.  It seems extrreme.

I thought they all understood that any server I did was basically an ametuer hour project and to expect certain frustrations from me trying to add stuff that really shouldn't be there.   No reason for them not to play on Storm Seasons or Slave Girls or any of the other more structured servers.

[KAT J'inn]

Then what about if the 4 khh players
KHH_Mrogue
KHH_MiniMe
KHH_EvilKraven
KHH_ShadowLord

switched and started to fly Gorn?

Do whatever you think would be the most fun.  This is a game, that is what it should be. 

Agreed.   I'm not asking anyone to switch.

[Hexx]

Mirror Mirror (I really have to learn how to do that little "2" up in the corner thing) will likely
have restrictions (by which I mean none available) on Drone boats, Escorts and something to
punish the fed player who insists he has to fly a DN although he "never wants to"

I was going to try and make it a serious server with BCH restrictions and all, but realized no one takes me seriously so screw it.

Long as I can get DH,Kroma, and Chuut to show up so I can kill them I'll be happy.

[Kroma BaSyl]

 I still feel we have lost players due to strict OOB,

No doubt, however this doesn't necessarily mean that we NOW have fewer total players than if the servers had been non-OOB. I feel pretty stongly that the continuation of nothing but unrestricted servers where you ended up fighting every pilot in the exact same cheese dejor would have caused an even greater number of players to have left the game by now. That isn't to say I don't want unrestricted servers as well however. Just that putting the blame on player decline at the hands of OOB servers is a cop out. This is a free market and I can only assume that there haven't been more unrestricted servers because no one is interested enough in them to run or play on them.

but i think overall we have lost more players at the simple fact there isn't enough variation annymore.

There wasn't any variation before, they were all non-OOB. We have and continue to lose players because this game is old. I think the rise of the OOB server is largely do to the fact that there are fewer players and that the few of use crazy and passionate enough to stick around this long are SFB obsessive types that OOBs appeal too.

[762_XC]

I don't think it's exactly fair to blame SSCF's departure on GW2. While there was some frustration and bad blood over that server, I think it's more accurate to say they just found a game they liked more.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I don't think it's exactly fair to blame SSCF's departure on GW2. While there was some frustration and bad blood over that server, I think it's more accurate to say they just found a game they liked more.

That is true, it was more complex than that. But it had little or nothing to do with the actual server or rule change, and more to do with waining interest and a desire to spend their spare time with better company (ally or opponents). JMO