Topic: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!  (Read 3985 times)

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Offline Jack Morris

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Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« on: April 04, 2005, 10:14:01 pm »
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/050404/oil_prices_bubble_theory.html?.v=4

This guy is definitely on crack or heroin or something. Maybe he needs to visit Asia and India and other parts of the world that are going full steam ahead with manufacturing and globalization? IMO, it's not like a small population like America where if 10 percent get more cars it's no big deal. In China and India if 10 percent of the population is able to buy a car or truck or even a second family vehicle it's a MAJOR impact due to the largeness of their population vs ours and Europe's. Not only that, it takes a LOT of energy to roll out the kind of manufacturing they do, and it sure as hades is NOT being created by solar or wind power or a bunch of nuclear plants.

I can see oil maybe hitting the 40's again, but not for long. Even though less fortunate people would have to buy economy cars or even ride the bus if it happened, I would be ecstatic to see oil hit the 100 plus that Goldman Sachs is predicting, and it will eventually, the question is when?

The answer to this mess has been in front of us for years. Get off our arses and start cranking out hybrids and fuel cells with the same enthusiasm and energy that our forefathers did during WW2 in regards to modernization and PRODUCTION!

Offline J. Carney

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2005, 02:49:59 pm »
The answer to this mess has been in front of us for years. Get off our arses and start cranking out hybrids and fuel cells with the same enthusiasm and energy that our forefathers did during WW2 in regards to modernization and PRODUCTION!

First off, Oil will hit $28 a barrel again... but not until DEMAND goes down. When hybrids start rolling out, people are going to need less gas. The Arabs are going to have to drop the price of their oil WAY down- to make up for the fact that in the 10 years that it'll take for hybrids to catch on due to high oil prices, Alaska will be getting into full swing and we'll probably start hitting the Gulf harder, too.

Then guys like me that will be driving antique gas-guzzlers will grin and tank up on $.99 gas again. ;) (part kidding, part guessing)

As for the enthusiasm... the kids today are too interested in easy money. They'll never jump up and work like people in the 40's... especially since they don't have a genocidal maniac breathing down their neck while trying to unlock the secrets of REALLY BIG BOMBS(TM).
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 12:10:03 pm »
First of all, I mean no respect, but your cheering the price of oil rising really rubs salt into the wound for me.  I'm already on a very very tight budget, and I'm going broke on these gas prices trying to make ends meet.  I doubt that prices will drop- especially after hearing about that petty Venezuelan dictator.
This hole disdain I have for Pickups and SUVs comes fromt he fact that people buying them in mass DOES hurt the rest of us, because it places a higher demand on a limited resource, which shifts the demand curve to the right, drivign prices up.  Add to that the fact that once companies get their revenues up from raised prices, they will not want to lower them again.
What I really need is a really good way to increase my gas mileage without hurting my car- not the stupid little things like "properly inflate you tires" or "make sure to have your fuel injection system serviced."  I don't need an extra mile per gallon, I need an extra 15.
CK

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2005, 12:22:50 pm »
This hole disdain I have for Pickups and SUVs comes fromt he fact that people buying them in mass DOES hurt the rest of us, because it places a higher demand on a limited resource, which shifts the demand curve to the right, drivign prices up.  Add to that the fact that once companies get their revenues up from raised prices, they will not want to lower them again..

You buy what fits your lifestyle, CK, and I will buy what fits mine. I'm no professional farmer by trade, but I do need a truck for hauling paperwood, towing a boat & trailer, loading firewood, and hopefully I'll soon need it to pull a bike trailer because riding a motorcycle for 5 hours can get a bit tiring.

Your equating people that have trucks and SUV's with the evil forces driving up gas prices is not funny, and is barey even based in fact. My truck gets 20 MPG. I GUARENTEE you that there are people here on these boards that drive cars, either older ones or sports cars, that get that kind of milage OR WORSE!!! The effect that pickups and SUV's have on the price of oil is not even worth mentioning... because automobiles don't even use the majority of oil products... people in your neck of the woods use more in heating oil (kerosene) during the winter. If ya'll wanna lower the price of oil, go back to heating your homes with wood- it's cheap, you have a derth of it, and it comes back in 10 years.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Tus-XC

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2005, 02:43:16 pm »
oil dropping to that price will most likely not happen until we are free from oil (even with hybrids, the price will most likely not drop all that much)  This is because the rate of consumption of oil is an exponetial function, its is increasing at a fixed rate which right now is 6.4% a year (just googled that number...).  the doubling time for anything increasing  at 6.4% a year  is approximately 10.9 or 11 years.  That means in order to meet that rate of consumption in 10 years we will have to produce more oil than has been produced since we have started pumping.  In short unless we can discover a way to produce oil cheaply and effienctly (ie we get more energy out than we put in making it)  it is unlikely the price will ever drop.  Even with hybrids the rate of consumption might be halved (assuming everyone drives one) and that only puts off the doubling time for oil consumption another 10 years.  This is a very interesting prospect whicn until last night (we had a lecture with Dr. Albert A. Bartlett who explained this very well, check out this link for more info  http://www.npg.org/specialreports/bartlett_index.htm ) wasn't somthing i thought of very much.  btw, this also can be applied to your use of firewood as a fuel for heating carney.  That will work only if the yearly growth in consumption in firewood remains at a constant rate of 0%  otherwise we will eventually consume all of it (though in reality very small percentages such as .5% it will probably take a two life times to double, 140years) 

If you want it better  explained check out the above link.

-edit-
btw please correct me if i misintepreted somthing from that, pretty sure i'm explaining it right (might have left of some details)
Rob

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2005, 03:07:46 pm »
Tus...

I know that firewood isn't a solution... but it is a way to mitigate oil use and drop prices.

Hybrids are not a solution either, they just mitigate oil use and keep us hooked a little longer. It's like smoking a light cig... you are till paying $3.75 a pack to puff, you are just getting less for the cash.

You have to COMBINE a lot of factors. WHen we can increase our production, we can flood contenental markets and those in allied countries with cheaper oil. That'll force the Middle East to lower prices to compete- that's their only way to make money, they HAVE to be competative.

We use a viriaty of alternative fuels for different things- wood-burning stoves are only one item. Wind, hydroelectric power and nuclear power are others.

Throww a little bit of everything into the mix, and it works out. I mentioned wood because rural MN (where, IIRC, CK lives) has enough acrage to supply people with plenty of firewood without straining the ecosystem- at least for 10-20 years. By then another, longer term solution will have kicked in, and the trees will be growing back the whole time.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Tus-XC

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 03:14:02 pm »
aye, makes perfect sense ;)  alls i was really looking at was the oil perspective, decided i would toss wood in there as well to show that it applies to more than just the oil ;).  And you are right, there are more things to look at than just consumption vs. production but in the long run it all runs down to supply and demand ;) hopefully we can make it (in the near future) no demand :)
Rob

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Offline Dracho

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2005, 03:14:29 pm »
Two Words:  Thermal Depolymerization

Killing germs, reducing waste, making oil: TDP might be the next big thing
This was going to be a column about oil. Instead, it's also about disease, poison, and a cool way to get rid of both.
Actually, it's about a new technology — a new process that is going to make a Difference. One that's going to change things, and one you're going to be hearing a lot more about.

The process is called thermal depolymerization or TDP, and the company that's doing it is West Hempstead, N.Y.-based Changing World Technologies.

Don't be intimidated by the name. It's just a nine-syllable way of saying "using heat to break down complex material into simple material."

Specifically, TDP turns just about anything into oil and fertilizer. And when I say "anything," I mean that: animal waste, medical waste, human waste. Used diapers, used computers, used tires. Anything that's not radioactive can be tossed into the hopper.

Those things go in one end of the process and come out the other as diesel oil and fertilizer using a process that mimics the Earth's. But instead of taking millions of years to turn plants, dinosaurs, and what-have-you into Venezuelan crude, TDP takes hours to do the same to just about anything you can throw in it. No wonder the energy industry is funding pilot projects and research facilities.

And this is not just a theoretical process. It ain't cold fusion. TDP is real, out-of-the-lab stuff. It's happening on an industrial scale, today. At the ConAgra Foods facility in Carthage, Missouri, hundreds of tons of turkey waste from the company's Butterball plant are being turned into oil every day — enough oil to generate 11-12 megawatts of power, according to Changing World's chairman and CEO, Brian Appel.

The City of Philadelphia currently turns a lot of its sewage sludge into landfill. (All together now: Eww.) But working with Changing World, the city is planning a TDP project to divert that sludge — and whatever pathogens are living in it — away from the land and into oil. Local power companies can then turn the oil into electricity. Win, win, win.

At first, it was the oil angle that was TDP's selling point. In case you hadn't noticed, we get a lot of ours from countries that don't like us very much. Then they give our money to people who use it to kill us. So TDP was being touted as a way to reduce our imports. In fact, get this: According to Appel, there are more than 12 billion tons of agricultural waste generated every year in the U.S. (And that's undoubtedly a low number; it's based on 1988 figures.) Were it all to be put through the TDP process it would turn into more than four billion barrels of light crude oil.

That ain't chicken feed. (Not once the system's done processing it, anyway.) According to the U.S. Department of Energy, we imported about 3.3 billion barrels of crude oil in 2002.

In other words, if we converted just our agricultural waste to light crude using TDP, we could stop our oil imports…and then some.

Yes, yes, yes—these are perfect-world numbers. So cut 'em in half. Or more. Heck, imagine the benefit of weaning ourselves of just 10% of our oil imports.

But oil, which used to be thermal depolymerization's big story, is now its number two selling point. Thanks to Yakima, Wash., the big story is no longer what comes out, but what goes in. Yakima is where the first American case of mad cow disease — otherwise known as Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE) — was discovered.

BSE is carried in the brain and spinal tissue of cows by an oddly-folded protein called a prion. Unlike viruses or bacteria, prions are tough to kill; just cooking meat doesn't do it. (This is because prions aren't really alive. They can't be killed; they need to be destroyed.) And — sorry to you folks who might be planning a burger for dinner tonight — a lot of cattle in the U.S. are de facto cannibals: Their feed often contains parts of other cows, including the nerve matter believed to be the most efficient carrier of the disease. If those other cows have BSE, the disease gets around. Keeping the nation's cow-feed supply clean is critical.

Right now, we keep BSE from spreading by preventing the brain and spinal cord tissue of cattle from being fed to other cattle. We destroy it instead, or at least we try to — remember, prions don't give up the ghost very easily. Europe has experimented with incinerating BSE-infected carcasses, but in fact, there's no large-scale way to get rid of that tissue, so there's always a risk of it getting back into the food chain.

That's where TDP comes in. As Changing World's Appel puts it, "The prion has achieved mythical status of being indestructible." But it's not. TDP destroys prions.

So instead of burning and burying potentially infected cows, run them through a TDP system. No prions. Instead of "destroying" brain tissue (infected or not), run it through a TDP system. No chance of prions. According to Appel, TDP can effectively "divert these proteins away from the food chain so that issues brought by cannibalism can be ended." Nothing survives: "We destroy all pathological vectors." (Want to bet that the Department of Homeland Security is interested, too?)

But wait. There's more.

Dioxins and PCBs are two particularly nasty kinds of chemical. Right now, we don't really dispose of what we make; we burn or bury it, which means it ends up forgotten but not gone. More specifically, it ends up in the grass and water, and thus back in the food chain. Remember reading about how many PCBs were in farm-raised salmon? Or that the carcass of Keiko the killer whale — better known as Willy of Free Willy fame —has so many PCBs in it, it poses an environmental threat ? PCBs and dioxins are bad news.

But thermal depolymerization is good news. It breaks down industrial and medical wastes and poisons. So instead of burning that stuff and introducing nasties like PCBs and dioxins into the environment, you can run them through a TDP system where they get broken down into their components, which include — lest we forget — oil. As Appel says, "Let's divert this nasty material away from the food chain. It's that simple."

TDP takes the worst stuff out there and turns it into something useful. It has the potential to make a huge dent in our national energy bill, to remove the nastiest waste from the environment, and to make garbage-burning and landfills a thing of the past.

It's the product of good science and hard work, and we're seeing only the first glimmers of what it can do — a dozen megawatts in Missouri, better sewage processing in Philly. But interest and investment are running high, so you can bet you'll see more of TDP in the next few years. And who knows? Maybe before the decade is out we'll be able to cut ourselves off from the Saudis. "Remember September 11?" we'll say. "So do we."


http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/andrewkantor/2004-01-22-kantor_x.htm
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Tus-XC

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2005, 03:24:38 pm »
that would be awesome, i just hope that its effiecient enough to be worth it (that and i would enjoy saying that this is homegrown US oil... literally ;)).  if it takes to much energy(heat) to produce oil  than that oil can produce(heat)  inturn then all we will do is dig ourselve a hole.
Rob

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Offline Dracho

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2005, 03:30:25 pm »
Unless you locate the plants in the desert, near hydro-electric dams, and in the midwest near wind farms.  The midwest would also be near crops which could be used to make biodiesel.  Alternatively, 1-2 nuclear plants could probably supply the production electricity costs for enough refineries to manufacture the nation's entire oil supply.  There would be no "spikes" for them to contend with, simply "this is the max production rate of electical consumption".

Use nature to supply the electricity for the production, then the produced oil to drive the economy.



that would be awesome, i just hope that its effiecient enough to be worth it (that and i would enjoy saying that this is homegrown US oil... literally ;)).  if it takes to much energy(heat) to produce oil  than that oil can produce(heat)  inturn then all we will do is dig ourselve a hole.
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2005, 07:47:22 pm »
You buy what fits your lifestyle, CK, and I will buy what fits mine. I'm no professional farmer by trade, but I do need a truck for hauling paperwood, towing a boat & trailer, loading firewood, and hopefully I'll soon need it to pull a bike trailer because riding a motorcycle for 5 hours can get a bit tiring.

Your equating people that have trucks and SUV's with the evil forces driving up gas prices is not funny, and is barey even based in fact. My truck gets 20 MPG. I GUARENTEE you that there are people here on these boards that drive cars, either older ones or sports cars, that get that kind of milage OR WORSE!!! The effect that pickups and SUV's have on the price of oil is not even worth mentioning... because automobiles don't even use the majority of oil products... people in your neck of the woods use more in heating oil (kerosene) during the winter. If ya'll wanna lower the price of oil, go back to heating your homes with wood- it's cheap, you have a derth of it, and it comes back in 10 years.

You talk as if I am personally attacking you for buying a truck.  When I go to a rural area (which my town no longer qualifies as anymore) I EXPECT to see pickups.  After all, they are a utility vehicle, and in rural areas, they are all about utility.  My area, however, is no longer rural, it is suburban.  I see lots and lots and lots of pickups out there, and almost never are they loaded with ANYTHING in the back.  The SUVs I see are rarely loaded with more than one person, and almost never with more than two.  While I can't see around them I can see most of what's inside them, and all I see is one person sitting up at the front and no cargo. 
I accept that a lifestyle requiring a large utility vehicle like this, the owner would not necessarily need to carry extra passengers, or have cargo in the back.  However, it stands to reason that more than a small percentage of them would have extra passengers or cargo.  This is not the case. 
You live in Alabama, where much of the land there is rural.  10 years ago, this town i live in was rural as well, so I remember how important the utility aspect of vehicles.  I will not pick on those who have a utility need for these vehicles.  Folks around here, though, DO NOT buy them for their utility value.  They buy them as a status symbol.  This is also true in other urban and suburban area of the country I have visited.  Even my friend here who owns a truck agrees with me on this issue.  He agrees so he rarely drives his truck anymore because of the economics of this, and instead relies on a more fuel efficient vehicle.
Seriously man, just because the people in my neck of the woods are buying large fuel inefficient vehicles for no good reason doesn't mean I can't accept that there is a use for them, and that there are people who need them.  Please accept that I am not trying to make a blanket statement that "all trucks are bad" or anything like that.
Also, keep in mind that where you live people have a clear understanding of need versus want, whereas in other, richer areas of the country they tend to be more spoiled and superficial.  Whatever things I did not like about Georgia and Alabama when I was living down there, they definately had that positive quality which I admire. 
This is not almost true, this is true.  If I saw 7 out of ten muscle cars up here on the highway instead of pickups/SUVs, I'd be bitching about them.  But I don't, so I complain about what is a problem that I can see.  Are there areas where there are other, unncessarily fuel efficient cars?  Yep, I've seen them, and didn't liek that either, but we tend to think most about what's close to home.
As for the wood thing, it's an excellent point, and I go down that road whenever I can, since I have a 7 foot tall by 35 foot wide by 8 foot deep pile of wood in the backyard (enough to heat the home by itself for a good long time).  I've also recomended this route to others, but get ignored.
As for the TDP issue, it sounds great, I'm all for it.  I just want to know how much energy is required to make it work, how much it costs, how easy it is to implement on large scale, and any side effects that might pop up from it.  If those issues are all licked, then all we have to do is worry about the air pollution thing. 
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Jack Morris

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2005, 10:59:19 am »
Hey Clark, nobody's saying anything bad, ok?  ;)

I understand that it affects a lot of people, it affects me too, just because I invested a major portion of my parent's estate in energy doesn't mean I get FREE gas ya know.  ;) It would be nice though...

I want oil to rise for 2 reasons, one is monetary income from dividends of course, but that is nothing compared to what we could do as a nation with alternative energy sources getting a real boost, plus it would be a great growth and value investment as the stocks of these companies would start out FAR CHEAPER than current energy companies stock prices. Bush talked tough on alternative sources, but so far I've seen more talk than ACTION.

I've gotten so good at conserving I even recycle ALL steel and aluminum products and have taught my family the same. I had to cut part of a pine tree to allow people to walk on the sidewalk unmolested by the tree, I hand picked all the needles for use as mulch in the rose garden. Waste not, want not, make money off waste, then spend or invest!  ;D

Offline J. Carney

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2005, 02:08:28 pm »
I had to cut part of a pine tree to allow people to walk on the sidewalk unmolested by the tree

Hope that you cut it in deep winter (hard to come by in your neck of the woods, I know) while the sap was low, or you may as well have cut the whole tree. Do ya'll have bark beetles bad out there? If we limb a little pine tree while the sap's running, it's an even money bet that the bugs will get it and you gotta fell the whole darn thing.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2005, 04:32:25 pm »
On a side note, I observe 33-35 MPG in my Toyota Echo, and it's typically got a bike on the back of it, as well as one or two passengers and all the crap they think they need to carry with them.  I kinda need a bigger car, but this serves me fine.
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Offline Greenvalv

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope SO!
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2005, 05:08:46 pm »
Ya' know, the EPA is at partial fault to rising prices, lemme explain......
 
In Alaska there's a huge wildlife refuge sitting on a jackpot of oil.  The EPA will not allow any drilling of oil even though the only area the oil company is drooling after isn't even 3% of the whole.  The EPA says that it would damage the wildlife preserve.  BULL, around the oil pipline running through that park life is flourishing because it's warm around there.
 
The point, get rid of the EPA and we'd have $.99 prices again.  Every time an oil company tries to build another refinery the EPA puts them down.  The refineries are already pumping out as much as they can, we need more refineries!!

Offline Tus-XC

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2005, 07:55:40 pm »
only problem with that theory is how long will that last... the US peaked on oil production back in the late 70's, we ain't ever going to get that back.  and ontop of that the increase in the current rate of consumption will most likely make the alaska oil peak in 10-12 years (optomistic guess)
Rob

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2005, 08:17:45 pm »
On a side note, I observe 33-35 MPG in my Toyota Echo, and it's typically got a bike on the back of it, as well as one or two passengers and all the crap they think they need to carry with them.  I kinda need a bigger car, but this serves me fine.

Now, toss in kids, 2 strolers, a couple of bags, etc, and that's why people like SUV's. You have the versitility of a truck as far as hauling/towing, the cargo capacity of a minivan (that can't tow near as much) and the comforts of a good car.

ANd since you are getting 33-35 MPG in an Echo, they are not getting too bad a gas milage for the size of the vehicle that they drive.

I mean, with something that seats as many people as your car, in as much comfort as your car, and can carry  10 times the crap (not to mention what's in the trailer) AND can actually jump a curb or survive a good head-on collision, I'm getting 20 MPG most of the time.
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Father Ted

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2005, 10:22:24 pm »
I heard on the news tonight that they've actually allowed a new refinery to be buillt in the US! I'm guessing price tag shock at the gas pump opened the doors. Two ways, besides ANWR, to solve the high cost of gas: Alberta and Russia. Calgary and Edmonton are sitting on more oil than Canada can ever use, and Siberia is the largest untapped natural resource the world will ever see. If properly done, they could run OPEC out of business.

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Offline J. Carney

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2005, 10:30:35 pm »
I heard on the news tonight that they've actually allowed a new refinery to be buillt in the US! I'm guessing price tag shock at the gas pump opened the doors. Two ways, besides ANWR, to solve the high cost of gas: Alberta and Russia. Calgary and Edmonton are sitting on more oil than Canada can ever use, and Siberia is the largest untapped natural resource the world will ever see. If properly done, they could run OPEC out of business.

We've been sitting on North American crude waiting on a rainy day to use it...

Well, that day is here.

ANd Siberia NEEDS to be opened, but the cold is a problem. MEtal fractures like glass at those temps. It'll take a while (20+ years) to get it up and running, and longer to get the fields working at OPEC-class production levels.
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Ravok

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Re: Oil dropping to $28 a barrel? I would hope NOT!
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 10:41:04 pm »
Tus...

I know that firewood isn't a solution... but it is a way to mitigate oil use and drop prices.

Hybrids are not a solution either, they just mitigate oil use and keep us hooked a little longer. It's like smoking a light cig... you are till paying $3.75 a pack to puff, you are just getting less for the cash.

You have to COMBINE a lot of factors. WHen we can increase our production, we can flood contenental markets and those in allied countries with cheaper oil. That'll force the Middle East to lower prices to compete- that's their only way to make money, they HAVE to be competative.

We use a viriaty of alternative fuels for different things- wood-burning stoves are only one item. Wind, hydroelectric power and nuclear power are others.

Throww a little bit of everything into the mix, and it works out. I mentioned wood because rural MN (where, IIRC, CK lives) has enough acrage to supply people with plenty of firewood without straining the ecosystem- at least for 10-20 years. By then another, longer term solution will have kicked in, and the trees will be growing back the whole time.

 J you do understand one big spill from a rig in the Gulf will hit our beaches hard and decimate our economy?
 We rely on tourists for most of our jobs here. And how many people want to vacation on a beach with a Oil rig looming in the distance?
   
  It sounds good on paper but with them smack in the path of Hurricanes 2 times a year, Foolish in reality.