Topic: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is

[Dash Jones]

I like both shows but for different reasons.

The new one IS boring but still intriguing. It has very little action like the original had. It's more a soap opera with action thrown in here and there. Dirk is definitely correct in about all of his rant. The suits dictate and have thier hands in far too much. For example JMS rathered to drop Crusades completely than to cater to what TNT wanted for the show and destroy his vision and creation.

The new BSG IS more female oriented and has far too much soft porn in it.

Maybe that's the reason I found it boring, it didn't have enough action and not enough intellectual stimulation comparatively to other shows.  Now that I think about it that's a distinct possiblity.  Toss in the addition that many of the actions scenes just don't seem to grab you like they do in other shows, with their decision for the gritty combat feeling instead of the heroic combat ideas...

That's a very real possiblity now that I think about it why it hasn't caught my attention.

[FPF-DieHard]

Actually, I saw something about Edward James Olmos doing an interview on the local spanish channel... I swear I heard a quote by him saying something about "Spics in Space" and about died laughing.

I saw part of that, Olmos said that he "was the first Latin-American in space".  Anybody that watched Voyager knows that is not true.

But there are still no Italians in Sci FI.

You know why there are no Italians on Star Trek?   If there were, the ship would be powered by a "Whop Drive" that mixed pasta and anti-pasta   

[Strafer]

Closest we'll get is driven by Bistromath, I guess... 

[Hexx]

Don't they have an interview with Benedict on the BSG DVD? Didn't seem to upset with the new series then.
And BTW New Series is much better(imho) than the old stuff, although I can sit and watch Original Series trek all day
there's no way I can get through a singel episode of the original BSG.

[Commander Maxillius]

Actually, I saw something about Edward James Olmos doing an interview on the local spanish channel... I swear I heard a quote by him saying something about "Spics in Space" and about died laughing.

I saw part of that, Olmos said that he "was the first Latin-American in space".  Anybody that watched Voyager knows that is not true.

But there are still no Italians in Sci FI.

You know why there are no Italians on Star Trek?   If there were, the ship would be powered by a "Whop Drive" that mixed pasta and anti-pasta   

[E_Look]

DieHard, you ought to post that on that SFC Italia site!   

Dude, +1!

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Hmmmm.... shouldn't it be WOP drive?  IE "With Out Parents"

[Javora]

Don't they have an interview with Benedict on the BSG DVD? Didn't seem to upset with the new series then.
And BTW New Series is much better(imho) than the old stuff, although I can sit and watch Original Series trek all day
there's no way I can get through a singel episode of the original BSG.

Yes Sci-Fi did bring Benedict in to do a promo to help sell the "Female Starbuck".  But Sci-Fi didn't have more than a handfull of episodes in the can by that time depending when the promo was done.  So I doubt that Dirk had time to really see what was being done on the show before he did the promo.  That is if Dirk had time to even see the pilot before he did the promo.

[Villa64]

I think that it's very interesting that despite all the assertions that the new BSG 'sucks', it will be picked up for another season... something that the unassailable original series failed to do...

[el-Karnak]

I think that it's very interesting that despite all the assertions that the new BSG 'sucks', it will be picked up for another season... something that the unassailable original series failed to do...

Richard Hatch has trying the re-surrect BSG in the Old Series' image for decades now. He even mortgaged his house to produce a trailer for the network suits to see, and nobody bites on it.

You take a look at all the successful Star Trek TNG productions and you'll find Ronald Moore heavily involved (ie. First Contact movie, war story-centric TNG episodes, and DS9). Plus, you can factor in his predecessor, Nicolas Meyer, who basically saved StarTrek from oblivion in 1982 by directing StarTrek II:TWOK. Then, N. Meyer wrote all the best Earth scenes in Star Trek IV:The Voyage Home that help made it the most popular trekkie movie, and, to top it all off, he directed Star Trek VI:TUDC.

So, is it a surprise that the RDM produced new BSG mini-series is taking off while the B&B corrupted Star Trek is being cast out into the outer darkness of TV Cancellation's empty void?  No.

Is it a surprise that there is a reason that some people are actors and some people are successful sci-fi show writers/producers?  Cross-Reference the first post above to find out.

Anyway, take the case from a "show-me-the-money" Network Suit's perspective:  profit margins talk, while meaningless hot-air BS talk walks.

[Dash Jones]

I think that it's very interesting that despite all the assertions that the new BSG 'sucks', it will be picked up for another season... something that the unassailable original series failed to do...

Yep, the original was #1 in the ratings, this new remake is...as I said before...what #5000th...

It's all about the money though.  The original, depsite having stellar ratings, was costing the execs well over a million an episode, whilst in today's TV market that doesn't seem much, in the 70s I suppose it sounded outrageous.

So it didn't make the money that other shows did because of the costs of producing it.

I suppose it boils down to a better money making scheme now.  It's not about how many watch, but how profitable it is.  At least that's what I figure, as this BSG is at the bottom of the ratings charts in comparison to the top ten shows typically from what I've seen in the US ratings.

Of course then again, I suppose you could compare it to the other small time shows that originally shouldn't have been low on the ratings lists but are...like Enterprise...and make it seem that much better when comparing ratings.

But compared to the original's ratings and numbers...the new remake doesn't come close.  It has a second season for other reasonings than ratings, numbers watching, or those who like it.  It's called money.

[el-Karnak]

Interesting new BSG season 1 review from die-hard Trekkie fan that should serve as a good rebuttal to first post in this thread:

source:  http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/weblogs/brain/archives/001279.html

Battlestar Galactica: A season too sweet, too short
March 30, 2005

What amazes me so much about Battlestar Galactica is how much I'll miss the grim and gripping saga between the finale of a too-short 13-episode season Friday night and the start of a second season in July.

This from a die-hard Trekkie who likely won't shed a tear when Enterprise finally clunks its way off the interstellar stage later this spring.

Much to my surprise, the producers have continued to find amazing depth in the tale of 47,000-odd refugees fleeing the destruction their civilization by renegade androids. Where the cheesy 1970s series quickly resorted to plots about aliens, clones and gods, the new Galactica deftly drives the story along with tension, mystery and interpersonal conflict between richly-drawn characters.

The dramatic premise of the show -- that the Battlestar Galactica and a relative handful of Colonial spaceships have just escaped from the Cylons and are always on the verge of being discovered -- is tautly maintained from episode to episode. (I also found the original miniseries "fierce and entertaining."

The series may not be "hard" science fiction with realistic physics and detailed calculations, but the main plot is driven by "the situation": Early episodes dealt with the strain of continuously fleeing the Cylons; running short of water due to sabotage; the search for water; running short of food; running short of pilots; the search for fuel; political tensions as people demand a say in their government.

There really hasn't been a need to contrive storylines involving, say, the need to fly the fleet past an ice planet with a giant gun on it. Once you build a more or less coherent universe for your characters to move around in, some storylines will develop naturally. Galactica reminds me a lot of Babylon 5 and Star Trek: Deep Space 9 in that way.

The nature of the Cylons -- the fact that some can now take human form -- also adds a continuing tension to almost every interaction on the show. In a parallel to today's terrorism fears, the Colonials constantly fear Cylon infiltrators. And until everyone is tested and his or her loyalty is confirmed, anyone could be a Cylon. (Who'd expect an episode about torturing a robot to be so thought-provoking?)

Layered on top of this are the political clashes: President Laura Roslin vs. Commander William Adama, Roslin vs. populist rebel Tom Zarek, plus Dr. Gaius Baltar's new role as Roslin's vice president. And we have all the interpersonal issues: Adama and his son, Lee (Apollo); Lee's thing for Lt. Kara Thrace (Starbuck); Adama's issues with Starbuck over the death of his other son, Zack; plus too many more to list. Even if you don't for the sci-fi, it's a bloody wonderful space soap opera.

The show also has had an appealing sense of unfolding mystery to it. As the introductory narrative explains every episode, it's clear that the Cylons have some sort of plan. It was never clearly explained why they chose to wipe out humanity. Simple revenge? Because humans don't believe in their one god? For the old sci-fi adage that they'll eventually wind up fighting with humans over resources anyway? Is the Cylon god just a token of faith -- or a product of their networked consciousness or a mainframe somewhere?

Plus there's the whole Lt. Sharon Valerii (Boomer) / Lt. Karl C. Agathon (Helo) thing that's been going on on Caprica, some sort of Cylon experiment gone awry. It's clear the Cylons want to feel and somehow need to interact with humans to do it. I can't believe Helo's the only survivor. It wouldn't surprise me to see more of them turn up, or to see Cylon-raised humans or Cylon-turned humans show up to harass the Colonials.

The last few episodes have introduced some new supernatural elements, with Roslin apparently having visions and prophecies apparently coming true. Unless you're talking Jedi, I'm always a bit troubled when writers blend their supernatural elements with their sci-fi -- people look silly enough talking about things foreseen in ancient writings without holding blasters in their hands -- but if the Galactica folks can pull this one off without sending everyone back to 1980s Earth in white uniforms, I'll be happy.

Ever since DS9 went off the air, I've wished Trek could do half so well.

[Death_Merchant]

Interesting... strong opinions on both sides. No surprise to me

I will say this: My DVR is set to record BSG, but not Enterprise anymore.
BSG has me interested in the characters, Enterprise does not.

I guess that is what it boils down to for me. Take the BSG episode "The Hand of God". This is a "Big Mac" episode according to Moore ("Big Mac" means a big, fun, wow-em shoot-em-up gift for the fans).

Did I like the battle sequence? Sure
Is that why I loved the episode? Nope

I loved the fact that a few Viper pilots went down, and you recognized them from previous episodes (not faceless stock-shots of exploding ships). I loved the fact that the "best pilot - Starbuck" could not go, and she was wrestling with that. I loved Apollo's friends and father implying they thought he might not be up to the task, and Apollo realizing they felt that.

No one would have doubted the original Apollo. He had no doubts, he made no mistakes, he had no flaws.
In the 70's, I liked that. Now? I find it uninteresting.

Opinions? Everyone has them.
Yours may differ

[E_Look]

Hmmmm.... shouldn't it be WOP drive?  IE "With Out Parents"

Bear, "P" stood for "passport".

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Hmmmm.... shouldn't it be WOP drive?  IE "With Out Parents"

Bear, "P" stood for "passport".

Not where I grew up....

[jualdeaux]

I can not speak about how I like or dislike the new series due to the fact that I gave up cable a while ago and don't even have broadcast. I will say that i was not overly thrilled at the "miniseries."

My post is about the ratings and how people are sayting that the original series was #1 and the new is at the bottom. Back when the original was on, there were how many channels to really choose from? 3? maybe 4? How many are there now to choose from? 500 plus for some people? Very few, if any, shows these days are getting the same percentage of viewership as was possible in the past. Granted, there are more people watching, but they still have hundreds of channels to choose from.

[TheJudge]

The original series premiered in an era where you had ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS on television, with maybe a few independent stations. 

The new series premieres in an era when a cable channel that pulls a 3.2 share is considered a success.  For broadcast stations, that's borderline.  Any broadcast show at 3.2 that costs what a sci-fi show costs can really expect cancellation.  On the other hand, cable stations don't have to pull the four to ten shares for advertisers to dish out the bucks.  What's more important is the category of viewers, and the BSG is pulling in those viewers like crazy.  It doesn't need a high overall rating.

Here's the kicker though...if NBC were to bring it into its regular line-up, it could challenge the front-running shows.  If NBC were smart, it'd bring BSG into its line-up as filler...take its worst-rated slot, plug in BSG at NO EXTRA cost.  Show the original episode on the previous friday night, then the next week plug in the BSG for free (NBC-Universal owns Sci-Fi, NBC, and USA as well as several others).  If BSG can pull a five rating on the NBC broadcasts, as well as compete with the Friday night sci-fi shows, it will make a lot of money for NBC.  Here's something else to ponder, with its CURRENT RATINGS, BSG is beating Enterprise, SG-1, and SG Atlantis each week.  It is the #1 show for its network, Sci-fi. 

As a comparison, the other highest rated show on cable for Friday nights is Monk.  This is owned by the same company as Sci-Fi.  Monk has been established as a cult hit for years now, and pulls in regular ratings each year.  Guess what? BSG is either #1, just beating out Monk, or is just beaten out by Monk and takes the #2 slot each Friday for cable broadcast shows.  Guess what that means...ADVERTISER DOLLARS.

BSG is pulling in the BIG BOYS of advertisers, the ones who dish out millions to make a splash every year at the super bowl.  More importantly, they're paying TOP DOLLAR for BSG advertising slots.  Last week I heard that BSG is pulling as much for a 30 second slot as any of the broadcast channels are charging and almost the same amount as Monk.  The original show died because advertising revenue did NOT exceed production costs by a wide-enough margin.  The new BSG got renewed because Advertising revenues are through the roof in comparison to production costs and that's with people on the cast like Edward James Olmos and Mary Mcdonough (sp?). 

Those two do NOT come cheap, and they're worth every penny.  They form the core of this show and hold it up very well.  Considering that most of its viewers are in the CRITICAL 18-49 group, the advertisers will continue to flock to this show. 

Love it or hate it, the NEW BSG has what it takes to make it on television. 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

My post is about the ratings and how people are sayting that the original series was #1 and the new is at the bottom.

Guys, the old show was not #1.  It hovered near the bottom, at least in the second half of its single season.

I remember, because the original BSG was the year that my paper's TV guide insert first starting regularly posting the Nielson ratings each week.  They posted the top ten shows and the bottom five.  Each week I opened the ratings with hope, and each week there was BSG, second or third from the bottom.  I was upset when the show was cancelled but I was not surprised.

Now, that was the last half of the season.  The three-hour bonanza that kicked it off was hyped a great deal, and may very well have ranked #1.  I've no idea.

-S'Cipio

[TheJudge]

The old show as cancelled after one season because it didn't make enough money for the network.  The new show is renewed because it makes enough money for the network.

that's the bottom line.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

To be sure, I'm a big fan of the new show now.  That is a surprise to me, since from the pre-show press I didn't think I would like it.  I enjoy watching it because it has that rare quality among Science Fiction shows these days:  it is an engaging story that is well written on a consistent basis.   It also helps that my wife loves it, and hates SG1 and Enterprise, so it is the one good science fiction show I can watch with her.

Dirk Benedict does remind me of one thing I loathe about the new show however:  In this new version, the humans built the cylons.  WTF?

The whole "our destruction is our own fault" story was interesting the first time I saw it (about thirty years ago....) but by now it's been done to death and I'm sick of it.  Seems like we can't ever be the good guys anymore.   

When I heard the Cylons were going to be re-worked, I'd rather hoped for a return to the original concept:  the Cylons were an alien race rarely seen outside of their powered combat suits.  This concept was kept in the novelizations and the novels, but dropped on TV.  ABC didn't want a lot of killing every week -- not even alien killing.  That was "too violent".   So the Cylons were turned into robots for TV.  None of the suits cared if robots got killed every week.

-S'Cipio