Topic: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is  (Read 8403 times)

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Offline Rat Boy

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The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« on: March 29, 2005, 11:33:29 am »
Found this at the TrekBBS, reprinted from a column in Dreamwatch magazine.  All I can say to Dirk Benedict is amen, brother.  You tell 'em!


Starbuck: Lost in Castration

Once upon a time, in what used to be a far away land called Hollywood but is now a state of mind and everywhere, a young actor was handed a script and asked to bring to life a character called Starbuck. I am that actor. The script was called Battlestar Galactica.

Fortunately I was young, my imagination fertile and adrenal glands strong, because bringing Starbuck to life was over the dead imaginations of a lot of Network Executives. Every character trait I struggled to give him was met with vigourous resistance. A charming womaniser? The "Suits" (Network Executives) hated it. A cigar (fumerello) smoker? The Suits hated it. A reluctant hero who found humour in the bleakest of situations? The Suits hated it. All this negative feedback convinced me I was on the right track.

Starbuck was meant to be a loveable rogue. It was best for the show, best for the character and the best that I could do. The Suits didn't think so. "One more cigar and he's fired,"they told Glen Larson, the creator of the show. "We want Starbuck to appeal to the female audience for crying out loud!" You see, the Suits knew women were turned off by men who smoked cigars. Especially young men. (How they "knew" this was never revealed.) And they didn't stop there. "If Dirk doesn't quit playing every scene with a girl like he wants to get her in bed, he's fired!" This was, well, it was blatant heterosexuality. Treating women like "sex objects". I thought it was flirting. Never mind. They wouldn't have it.

I wouldn't have it any other way, or rather Starbuck wouldn't. So we persevered, Starbuck and I. The show, as the saying goes, went on and the rest is history – for, lo and behold, women from all over the world sent me boxes of cigars, phone numbers, dinner requests, marriage proposals... The Suits were not impressed. They would have
there way, which is what Suits do best, and after one season of puffing and flirting and gambling, Starbuck, that loveable scoundrel, was indeed fired. Which is to say Battlestar Galactica was cancelled. Starbuck however, would not stay cancelled, but simply morphed into another flirting, cigar-smoking, blatant heterosexual called Faceman. Another show, another set of Suits and, of course, if the A-Team movie rumours prove correct, another remake.

There was a time – I know I was there – when men were men, women were women and sometimes a cigar was just a good smoke. But 40 years of feminism have taken their toll. The war against masculinity has been won. Everything has turned into its opposite, so that what was once flirting and smoking is now sexual harassment and criminal. And
everyone is more lonely and miserable as a result.

Witness the "re-imagined" Battlestar Galactica. It's bleak, miserable, despairing, angry and confused. Which is to say, it reflects, in microcosm, the complete change in the politics and mores of today's world as opposed to the world of yesterday. The world of Lorne Greene (Adama) and Fred Astaire (Starbuck's Poppa), and Dirk Benedict (Starbuck). I would guess Lorne is glad he's in that Big Bonanza in the sky and well out of it. Starbuck, alas, has not been so lucky. He's not been left to pass quietly into that trivial world of cancelled TV characters.

"Re-imagining", they call it. "un-imagining" is more accurate. To take what once was and twist it into what never was intended. So that a television show based on hope, spiritual faith, and family is unimagined and regurgitated as a show of despair, sexual violence and family dysfunction. To better reflect the times of ambiguous morality in which we live, one would assume. A show in which the aliens (Cylons) are justified in their desire to destroy our civilization.
One would assume. Indeed, let us not say who are the guys and who are the bad. That is being "judgemental". And that kind of (simplistic) thinking went out with Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan and Katharine Hepburn and John Wayne and, well the original Battlestar Galactica.

In the bleak and miserable, "re-imagined" world of Battlestar Galactica, things are never that simple. Maybe the Cylons are not evil and alien but in fact enlightened and evolved? Let us not judge them so harshly. Maybe it is they who deserve to live and Adama, and his human ilk who deserves to die? And what a way to go! For the re- imagined terrorists (Cylons) are not mechanical robots void of soul, of sexuality, but rather humanoid six-foot-tall former lingerie models who f**k you to death. (Poor old Starbuck, you were imagined too early. Think of the fun you could have had `fighting' with these thong-clad aliens!). In the spirit of such soft-core sci-fi porn I think a more re-imaginative title would have been F**cked by A Cylon. (Apologies to Touched by An Angel.)

One thing is certain. In the new un-imagined, re-imagined world of Battlestar Galactica everything is female driven. The male characters, from Adama on down, are confused, weak, and wracked with indecision while the female characters are decisive, bold, angry as hell, puffing cigars (gasp) and not about to take it any more.

One can quickly surmise what a problem the original Starbuck created for the re-imaginators. Starbuck was all charm and humour and flirting without an angry bone in his womanising body. Yes, he was definitely `female driven', but not in the politically correct ways of Re-imagined Television. What to do, wondered the Re-imaginators?
Keep him as he was, with a twinkle in his eye, a stogie in his mouth, a girl in every galaxy? This could not be. He would stick out like, well like a jock strap in a drawer of thongs. Starbuck refused to be re-imagined. It became the Great Dilemma. How to have your Starbuck and delete him too?

The best minds in the world of un-imagination doubled their intake of Double Soy Lattes as they gathered in their smoke-free offices to curse the day this chauvinistic Viper Pilot was allowed to be. But never under estimate the power of the un-imaginative mind when it encounters an obstacle (character) it subconsciously loathes. "Re- inspiration" struck. Starbuck would go the way of most men in today's society. Starbuck would become "Stardoe". What the Suits of
yesteryear had been incapable of doing to Starbuck 25 years ago was accomplished quicker than you can say orchiectomy. Much quicker. As in, "Frak! Gonads Gone!" And the word went out to all the Suits in all the smoke-free offices throughout the land of Un- imagination, "Starbuck is dead. Long live Stardoe!"

I'm not sure if a cigar in the mouth of Stardoe resonates in the same way it did in the mouth of Starbuck. Perhaps. Perhaps it "resonates" more. Perhaps that's the point. I'm not sure. What I am sure of is this…

Women are from Venus. Men are from Mars. Hamlet does not scan as Hamletta. Nor does Han Solo as Han Sally. Faceman is not the same as
Facewoman. Nor does a Stardoe a Starbuck make. Men hand out cigars. Women `hand out' babies. And thus the world, for thousands of years, has gone round.

I am also sure that Show Business has been morphing for many decades now and has finally become Biz Business. The creative artists have lost and the Suits have won. Suits. Administrators. Technocrats.
Metro-sexual money-men (and women) who create formulas to guarantee profit margins. Because movies and television shows are not made to enlighten or even entertain but simply to make money. They will tell you it is (still) about story and character but all it is really about is efficiency. About The Formula. Because Harvard Business School Technocrats run Hollywood and what Technocrats know is what must be removed from all business is Risk. And I tell you life, real life, is all about risk. I tell you that without risk you have no creativity, no art. I tell you that without risk you have Remakes. You have Charlie's Angels, The Saint, Mission Impossible, The A-Team (coming soon) Battlestar Galactica. All risk-free brand names, franchises.

For you see, TV Shows (and movies) are made and sold according to the same business formula as hamburger franchises. So that it matters not if the `best' hamburger, what matters is that you `think' it is the best. And you do think it's the best, because you have been told to; because all of your favourite celebrities are seen munching it on TV.
The big money is not spent on making the hamburger or the television show, but on the marketing of the hamburger/show. (One 60-second commercial can cost more than it does to film a one-hour episode.) It matters not to Suits if it is Starbuck or Stardoe, if the Cylons are robots or lingerie models, if the show is full of optimism and morality or pessimism and amorality. What matters is that it is marketed well, so that all you people out there in TV land know that you must see this show. And after you see it, you are told that you should like it. That it is new and bold and sleek and sexy and best of all… it is Re-imagined!

So grab a Coke from the fridge (not the Classic Coke, but the re-imagined kind with fewer calories) and send out for a McDonald's Hamburger (the re-imagined one with fewer carbs) and tune in to Stardoe and Cylon #6 (or was it #69?) and Enjoy The Show.

And if you don't enjoy the show, or the hamburger and Coke, it's not the fault of those re-imaginative technocrats that brought them to you. It is your fault. You and your individual instincts, tastes, judgement. Your refusal to let go of the memory of the show that once was. You just don't know what is good for you. But stay tuned. After another 13 episodes (and millions of dollars of marketing), you will see the light. You, your instincts, your judgement, are wrong. McDonald's is the best hamburger on the planet, Coca-Cola the best drink. Stardoe is the best Viper Pilot in the Galaxy. And Battlestar Galactica, contrary to what your memory tells you, never existed before the Re-imagination of 2003.

I disagree. But perhaps, you had to be there.

Dirk Benedict, writing in Dreamwatch, May 2004


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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2005, 12:13:50 pm »
Wow, that is pretty aptly stated.  I'm of the 'younger' generation and only finally watched the original Battle Star Galactica last year.  Loved it.  However, for whatever reason I could never figure out why the new one really didn't catch my interest.  I've sloughed through 3 episodes of the new one thus far and been bored to death every one (of course I'm not much of a TV watcher now days so maybe that has something to do with it).  I do find it interesting now that he mentions it that Buck and Doe are the names of Deer, and so aptly she shouldn't be starbuck, but in reality in fitting with her name, stardoe.

I have enjoyed some of the reimagined remakes however, such as the Mummy movies.

He played a character on the A-Team?  I know Mr. T did, as for some reason some kids my age still have a fascination with him, and we see him in Rocky 3.  He played BBbarabbas I beleive or something...however, I'll have to make more of an effort to watch the Ateam so that I can see the character Dirk Benedict played.
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Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2005, 12:50:05 pm »
And what a way to go! For the re- imagined terrorists (Cylons) are not mechanical robots void of soul, of sexuality, but rather humanoid six-foot-tall former lingerie models who f**k you to death. (Poor old Starbuck, you were imagined too early. Think of the fun you could have had `fighting' with these thong-clad aliens!).


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You've got to love Dirk Benedict's sense of humor.

I guess now we know why Richard Hatch was offered a cameo role, and Dirk wasn't.

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Offline FPF-Wanderer

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2005, 01:22:44 pm »
While the not-so-subtle mysoginistic underpinnings of Dirk's comments tend to rankle my leftist sensibilities ;D, I gotta totally agree with what he has to say about Hollywood suits and the crap they churn out time after time.  They wouldn't know art if it bit them on the a$$.

As to Hatch getting a recurring role, I have to say I was rather surprised, considering he panned the mini-series pretty hard when it first came out.  Then again, money talks...
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Offline Khalee1

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2005, 02:02:20 pm »
Well hes wrong about Coca-Cola,  DrPepper is the best drink out there not Coca-Cola. And the only thing worth buying at Mcdonalds, other than the Bigmac meal with large fries and DrPepper and cheeseburger meal with large fries and DrPepper is the quarter pounder with cheese meal with large fries and DrPepper. everything else sucks at Mcdonalds.

Offline E_Look

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2005, 02:27:40 pm »
Heck, they tried this in the Trekniverse already!  They reimagined TOS... you know, weak ship but never got destroyed... except this time with an old chick in command instead of womanizing ol' Jim Kirk.  They called it Vo...

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2005, 03:09:29 pm »
As to Hatch getting a recurring role, I have to say I was rather surprised, considering he panned the mini-series pretty hard when it first came out.  Then again, money talks...

Notice he's playing the bad guy who wants to kill the president, do away with command structure, and seize total control of the fleet.

Maybe some underlying irony in that role appealed to him.  ;)

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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2005, 04:38:58 pm »
The problem with this spiel is that the new BSG is a hell of a lot better than the old one ever was.  I know the original was fun space opera and the new one is supposed to be more serious, and that some folks equate serious to 'better'...but I'm not one of those people.  Acting, storyline, characterization, etc...there's all a lot more of it on the new BSG.

I'm a Dirk Benedict fan to a certain degree, but I gotta disagree with his rant.  To me, 'Starbuck' is Lt. Kara Thrace.  Dirk lost the role in the theater of my mind about three episodes into the new series.
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2005, 04:58:34 pm »
However, for whatever reason I could never figure out why the new one really didn't catch my interest.


Probably because it has nothing to do with the original Battlestar Galactica.  About the only thing the two shows have in common are a few names and that's it.  Everything else was junked in the "re-imagining" of it, including a lot of the first BSG's charm and appeal.


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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2005, 05:25:45 pm »
The new BSG is darker, much darker. 

It appeals to me. 

It is showing more humanity & human weakness of both sexes than the original, it has a desperation to it that the original BSG did not have. 

The original seems like "The Love Boat" in space anymore and though I do like the original Starbuck more.... the new one has her appeal also.

And I think he is dead wrong about the new Adama being indecisive.

Tigh & Apollo?  Yeah... but not Adama.

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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2005, 05:30:39 pm »
Quote
Tigh & Apollo?  Yeah... but not Adama.

"You have to lose control."

Loved that line.
"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2005, 05:45:13 pm »
Actually, I saw something about Edward James Olmos doing an interview on the local spanish channel... I swear I heard a quote by him saying something about "Spics in Space" and about died laughing.
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

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Offline Javora

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2005, 05:49:13 pm »
The original seems like "The Love Boat" in space anymore and though I do like the original Starbuck more.... the new one has her appeal also.

Not to me, the new Starbuck looks too much like Macaulay Culkin.  Sorry, but I can't find the appeal in her.

There are some aspects of the new BSG that I do like but for the most part I agree with Dirk.  Anybody that doesn't agree with him only needs to look at the Farscape series and the "reasons" why Sci-Fi stated it was canceling the show.  Dirk is a smart funny person, and I found what he said to be a very good thought provoking read.

Offline Javora

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2005, 05:52:07 pm »
Actually, I saw something about Edward James Olmos doing an interview on the local spanish channel... I swear I heard a quote by him saying something about "Spics in Space" and about died laughing.

I saw part of that, Olmos said that he "was the first Latin-American in space".  Anybody that watched Voyager knows that is not true.

Offline Capt_Bearslayer_XC

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2005, 07:30:26 pm »
The original seems like "The Love Boat" in space anymore and though I do like the original Starbuck more.... the new one has her appeal also.

Not to me, the new Starbuck looks too much like Macaulay Culkin. Sorry, but I can't find the appeal in her.

There are some aspects of the new BSG that I do like but for the most part I agree with Dirk. Anybody that doesn't agree with him only needs to look at the Farscape series and the "reasons" why Sci-Fi stated it was canceling the show. Dirk is a smart funny person, and I found what he said to be a very good thought provoking read.

Oh, I agree with Dirk on a lot of the article especially the 'suits' part...

And while I like the new StarDoe... I do not find her sexually appealing, but a fascinating study of self destructiveness..

Now the new Boomer....  :woot:

She is smoking!!!
Political Correctness is really Political Censorship

A tax code should exist to procure the funds necessary for the operation of government, not to manipulate human or business behavior.

A nocens dies in loricatus est melior quam a bonus dies procul opus.

A bad peace is even worse than war."  --  Tacitus

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it" -Claude Castonguay

Offline TheJudge

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2005, 08:54:11 pm »
I....I have to admit this...I'm sexually attracted to Starbuck.


Both of them. 


Now, I wouldn't marry either of them either, but I have to admit that I CAN get a chubby over the new starbuck, especially whenever she punches Lee (apollo) or cuts him down verbally, or she's playing with the Doctor, or kicking the crap out of something.  I get a little tingling feeling and the desire to have her on top, so to say. 

We wouldn't last relationship wise unless she doesn't have a problem with me having a boy on the side...but yeah, one time around in the sack wouldn't be too bad, especially if Apollo or the doctor joins in.

SO, there you have it guys, the woman that The Judge WOULD have sex with....
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Offline likkerpig

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2005, 09:12:42 pm »
I only read half that rant from the original "starbuck", sounded like someone is bitter.
I watched the original series religiously as a kid, loved it.
A few years back I bought the original movie on vhs... watched it once and gave it away... just horrible. I'll overlook the special effects of the time and the '70's hairstyles but god, it just sucked! And that kid with his pet robot daggit... made me want to vomit!
Give me the new one any day... the new starbuck isn't "a lovable rogue with a heart of gold" Errol Flynn wannabe, the cylons don't want to destroy humanity "just because", etc. I like the harshness, the desperation... makes it feel more "real", instead of some damn left over hippy love in, where the only people who die are the robots. And there is no f***ing daggits!
Along the same vien that is why ds9 was my favorite st series, it left most of the "hug me" crap of TNG and political correctness of voy out. It was billed as a darker trek and lived up to it fairly well.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2005, 09:55:21 pm »
The problem with this spiel is that the new BSG is a hell of a lot better than the old one ever was. I know the original was fun space opera and the new one is supposed to be more serious, and that some folks equate serious to 'better'...but I'm not one of those people. Acting, storyline, characterization, etc...there's all a lot more of it on the new BSG.

I'm a Dirk Benedict fan to a certain degree, but I gotta disagree with his rant. To me, 'Starbuck' is Lt. Kara Thrace. Dirk lost the role in the theater of my mind about three episodes into the new series.

Except for the fact that the original BSG was #1 in the ratings and was cancelled due to how much money it cost (the TV execs at the time didn't like spending a million or more dollars per episode in 1970s dollars) and the BSG now is rated...what...9000th or something...actually not that low, but I think probably not in the top 10 shows on TV.  Some of the items they tried to do to save money during the season is actually pretty hilarious.

However, whether or which one is better is completely a matter of opinion.  I do think he had a point about Starbuck though...a lassie can't be a buck, genetically it's impossible...so in that light, in reality though she wants to be starbuck, she really would have to be stardoe!

:P
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Offline Aldaron_Nirantani

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2005, 09:58:47 pm »
I like both shows but for different reasons.

The new one IS boring but still intriguing. It has very little action like the original had. It's more a soap opera with action thrown in here and there. Dirk is definitely correct in about all of his rant. The suits dictate and have thier hands in far too much. For example JMS rathered to drop Crusades completely than to cater to what TNT wanted for the show and destroy his vision and creation.

The new BSG IS more female oriented and has far too much soft porn in it.
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: The REAL Starbuck tellin' it like it is
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2005, 10:04:44 pm »
Hmm, I liked the old BSG.  It wasn't the effects, it was just more interesting.  Perhaps it's the attempt at the Sci Fi people to make it more "real" that bores the heck out of me.  I think hard core Sci Fi channel watcher might like it (I don't really watch SG-1 either, though I found it more interesting than BSG the few times  I watched part of their shows).  Overall, the Sci Fi channel that I see in the US when they produce shows are rather bland.

The most engaging show that I saw on Sci Fi as of late was Wizard of Earthsea, but they screwed that story up pretty badly...never got to see how it ended (Know how the books end though).  To tell the Truth in the US the Animal Planet channel has much more interesting Sci fi (though maybe not in the Space Opera arena as the New BSG series) such as their recent show, Making Dragons Real, as well as other discovery type Sci fi such as Walking with Dinosaurs, and the show which speculated about the evolution from the beginning then on long past man's extinction.

The New Dr. Who might be more interesting however, if given half a chance.  Perhaps the best chance for a good Sci Fi that's come about for a while...at least it's not produced by Sci Fi.

Actually, I take it back, season 4 of Enterprise finally was interesting (the first 3 seasons dwaddled and were more boring than just about everything else, but something strange happened in Season 4 that actually got my attention enough to watch it on a more regular basis) and had some interesting ideas pertaining to Sci Fi, even if it had a little fantasy mixed into it.
"All hominins are hominids, but not all hominids are hominins."


"Is this a Christian perspective?

Now where in the Bible does it say if someone does something stupid you should shoot them in the face?"

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We have whale farms in Jersey.   They're called McDonald's.

There is no "I" in team. There are two "I"s in Vin Diesel. screw you, team.