Topic: The movies and TV

[Clark Kent]

Ever notice that on TV female oficers are always referred to as "sir"?  Why is that?  In real life they are referred to as Ma'am, since they are not men and sir is a male term.  I don't understand the hollywood need to masculinize women.

[J. Carney]

Ever notice that on TV female oficers are always referred to as "sir"?  Why is that?  In real life they are referred to as Ma'am, since they are not men and sir is a male term.  I don't understand the hollywood need to masculinize women.

Somewhere along the line, Hollywood decided to try and make people think that it's sexual discrimination to differentiate between males and the females in uniform in any way.

It's termanally stupid. Women are different- it's like Hollywood wants them to see ashamed or afraid to be different.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Yep.  Next thing you know, they'll have urinals in their rest rooms and stand to pee.

[Chris Johnson]

If you ask me a few years ago, I would've thought it was more of a military thing, or at least a Starfleet thing when it comes to Star Trek.  But I never thought of it much actually.  At least Voyager shined some light in the subject (in the canonical universe) as a militaristic thing in Starfleet when Janeway said, "Despite Starfleet Protocol, I don't like being addressed as 'sir'."  That is, aside from the "Mr. ____" or "sir" addressing in here and there at episodes or movies in Star Trek.  I don't believe the U.S. Military (at the very least) addresses females as "sir".

[Commander La'ra]

Language-wise, the male pronoun can be used to refer to either sex in some instances.  Or at least, that's the way it used to be.  I've heard English folks have changed their stance on this but I can't find any way to confirm it.

It does make a certain amount of sense for a military or police organization to use a 'every officer is sir' protocol, however, and it has nothing to do with political correctness.  It's more of 'an officer is an officer' kind of thing, which, if you're in uniform, is exactly the case.  Women may be different from men, but the police officer telling you to drop your weapon or the Lieutenant Colonel giving you an order should probably be addressed based on their occupational role, not their gender.

[J. Carney]

I don't believe the U.S. Military (at the very least) addresses females as "sir".

LOL... and if you get a really touchy female officer who is called 'Sir', she might even press charges agianst you! It is considered the WORST of military manners to refer to a female officer as 'Sir.'

It does make a certain amount of sense for a military or police organization to use a 'every officer is sir' protocol, however, and it has nothing to do with political correctness.  It's more of 'an officer is an officer' kind of thing, which, if you're in uniform, is exactly the case.  Women may be different from men, but the police officer telling you to drop your weapon or the Lieutenant Colonel giving you an order should probably be addressed based on their occupational role, not their gender.

Sorry, but it's insulting.

I'm being ABSOLUTELY no less respectful to her position calling a female teacher 'M'am' instead of the neutral 'Doctor' (if she has a PhD).

I'm being ABSOLUTELY no less respectful to her position calling future (she gets it at the end of this semester) 2nd Lt. Langdern 'M'am' instead of the neutral 'Leutenant' or the masculine 'Sir.' In fact, Langdern is pretty well-built (muscular) and would really take it as a slight if someone addressed her that way. In fact, so would ALL the female officers, enlisted soldiers and cadets I know- including the gay one.

It's shameful that people try and wipe out the fact that they are women. if you think that they have had to work through discrimination and inequality to get where they are, wouldn't addressing them as 'M'am' actually be a mark of accomplishment? Wouldn't it be more of a badge of honor than 'Sir,' seeing as how 'M'am' is a more hard-won title?

Why take away that accomplishment?

Equality is in what they do with their position, not in how you address them!

[Commander La'ra]

My last post was meant to point that there IS some logic behind a unisex 'officer designation', not to say I thought calling a woman 'ma'am' was disrespectful (I personally feel it's fine).

I realize you're not a fan of the idea, but there are reasons it might be employed.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

JC, the people trying to change it to "Sir" for males and females, for the most part, never served and wouldn't really know that it is insulting.

They see it as pointing out that they are lesser.... they live in another world.

That said, in BSG, have you noticed the genderless bathrooms?

I don't think it would work in reality.

[Commander La'ra]

JC, the people trying to change it to "Sir" for males and females, for the most part, never served and wouldn't really know that it is insulting.

The people who have served in the military are basing their opinion on traditional military protocol, and I think that's the cause of many missed points on this board.  Just because it's the way the US Military does things does not mean that there are not other ways TO do things, and it certainly doesn't mean that those other ways are any less logical or correct.

[J. Carney]

I don't think it would work in reality.

I think it would work better than trying to call a girl that can shoot your eyes out at 100 meters 'Sir.'

Really, though, I have no problems with the idea of a unisex latrine- with the guards up by the urinals and the stalls around the heads, nobody is going to see anything unless they are really obviously looking. And if they are looking that hard, you can give them a swirlie to teach them a lesson.

My last post was meant to point that there IS some logic behind a unisex 'officer designation', not to say I thought calling a woman 'ma'am' was disrespectful (I personally feel it's fine).

I realize you're not a fan of the idea, but there are reasons it might be employed.

What's one reason? I have never heard onew that made sense, or I would give some thought to the idea.

[Commander La'ra]

The 'officer is an officer' thing makes pretty good sense to me.  I don't think it's completely neccesary, and I also think that you're right about a lot of women having a certain distaste for the concept, but the reasoning behind it is sound, at least in my opinion.

[J. Carney]

The 'officer is an officer' thing makes pretty good sense to me.  I don't think it's completely neccesary, and I also think that you're right about a lot of women having a certain distaste for the concept, but the reasoning behind it is sound, at least in my opinion.

Well, if an 'officer is an officer', then why use something sexist and insulting like calling a woman 'Sir?' Why not call them by their rank? What a concept! I mean, it's what you do with enlisted troops, so why not apply it to the officers.


It's an issue made by Hollywood to make it appear that something that is military policy is insulting to women. It's just for the sake of stiring something up.

[Commander La'ra]

Well, if an 'officer is an officer', then why use something sexist and insulting like calling a woman 'Sir?' Why not call them by their rank? What a concept! I mean, it's what you do with enlisted troops, so why not apply it to the officers.

That's probably a better idea.  Maybe that's why Janeway preferred to be called 'Captain'.

Again, I'd like to point out that I don't neccesarily think the whole 'sir' thing absolutely SHOULD become policy for the military or the police or anyone else.  I can simply see some logic and reason behind the theory.

It's an issue made by Hollywood to make it appear that something that is military policy is insulting to women. It's just for the sake of stiring something up.

Since I posted tonight, I've asked two women if they'd find 'sir' insulting.  One said yes, one said no.  Admittedly, woman #2 is pretty laid back but let's not make blanket 'insulting to women' statements when there's probably plenty of female opinions on this subject.

[Dracho]

Female officers are addressed as "Maam".  Hrm... however, warrant officers are addressed as "Mister".  Not sure what you call a female WO, and I never met one while I was in the service. 

Anyone know the answer to that?

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Yep.  You call them Warrant Officer.  Not being sarcastic.  That or Ms.  Any officer above flag rank is automatically called by their rank, rather than Mr. or Ms.  A commander is always commander so and so.  Regardless of sex.  Same for captains and above.
   And calling a woman sir is an insult to most women in the military.  Did it once in error to a Lt.  She let it be known quite clearly that she was a ma'am, not a sir.  Dark nights make it hard to differentiate at times.
   Sir is not a genderless title.  It is a very specific title denoted to a male.  Ma'am is directed at a female.  In spite of the left's continuing attempt to obliterate a difference of the sexes, just take a peek at the plumbing.  There is most definitely a difference.
   

[toasty0]

JC, the people trying to change it to "Sir" for males and females, for the most part, never served and wouldn't really know that it is insulting.

They see it as pointing out that they are lesser.... they live in another world.

That said, in BSG, have you noticed the genderless bathrooms?

I don't think it would work in reality.

Yeah it would. They just have to remember to leave the seat up for us fellas.

[J. Carney]

Since I posted tonight, I've asked two women if they'd find 'sir' insulting.  One said yes, one said no.  Admittedly, woman #2 is pretty laid back but let's not make blanket 'insulting to women' statements when there's probably plenty of female opinions on this subject.

I'm just speaking about the female troops I've talked to. The MP Corps has a plentiful supply of female officers, ranging from the 'OMG, I broke a nail' girly-girl types to the 'I can do anything better than you' G.I. Janes. I take the majority viewpoint of the ones I have met as being the standard. With only a few exceptions, they prefered 'M'am' to 'Sir.' The exceptions tended more towards offence than apathy.

If you want a single standard, go with rank. Otherwise, you are just trying to stir something up. I mean, how many men would you expect to be OK with being addressed as 'M'am' in a formal setting?

[J. Carney]

Female officers are addressed as "Maam".  Hrm... however, warrant officers are addressed as "Mister".  Not sure what you call a female WO, and I never met one while I was in the service. 

Anyone know the answer to that?

Most WO's that I know like to be called 'Cheif' in informal settings. Their being a speciallist in thier field makes them feel entitled to something unique, and that is being called 'Cheif.' makes  That being said, AS is right- they are 'M'am' just like a comissioned officer for formal address.

[Strafer]

Reading all this, I'm reminded of Callahan out of Police Academy III....

[Clark Kent]

Female officers are addressed as "Maam".  Hrm... however, warrant officers are addressed as "Mister".  Not sure what you call a female WO, and I never met one while I was in the service. 

Anyone know the answer to that?

Most WO's that I know like to be called 'Cheif' in informal settings. Their being a speciallist in thier field makes them feel entitled to something unique, and that is being called 'Cheif.' makes  That being said, AS is right- they are 'M'am' just like a comissioned officer for formal address.

Just, whatever you do, DO NOT call a CW-1 "Spot"  They hate that.