Poll

You argue against Firefox (for whatever reason). Have you used it, if so for how long?

Never used it at all.
2 (20%)
Used it once or twice.
1 (10%)
Used it for a week along with my preferred browser
1 (10%)
Used it, and it only for a week.
0 (0%)
Used it, and it only, for more than a week
6 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 9

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Topic: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?  (Read 4975 times)

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Offline Monty

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So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« on: March 08, 2005, 04:57:18 am »
I've seen people argue against Firefox(the reasons don't matter) in many forums... and its got me wondering just how much usage such a person gave it before formulating an opinion.
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Offline Demandred

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2005, 01:22:13 pm »
Usually not much time. Mostly people think IE is the internet and refuse to switch. Personally I don't care unless it's someone asking me for help - I now refuse to help people with spyware infested boxes after I've told them to switch to Firefox. It's their own damn fault at that point and I'm not going to spend hours of my life fixing something caused by deliberate stupidity.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2005, 03:06:22 pm »
Quote from: Demandred on March 17, 2005, 01:22:13 pm
Usually not much time. Mostly people think IE is the internet and refuse to switch. Personally I don't care unless it's someone asking me for help - I now refuse to help people with spyware infested boxes after I've told them to switch to Firefox. It's their own damn fault at that point and I'm not going to spend hours of my life fixing something caused by deliberate stupidity.

Well, if you don't know how to properly set up an operating system and have to resort to 3rd party software to keep your system running, then why are you using a PC to begin with?

Internet Explorer is part of Windows.. it is the best browser out there.. Period... the only limitation is tabbed browsing, which it doesn't have YET.. wait for IE 7.0

Now to Properly configure your IE, you can email me or PM me and I will show you step by step on how to fix your system up to prevent 99.9% of spyware and ad-ware from getting on your system using ONLY IE.. 3 or 4 cookies will trickle in that are tracking cookies using the proper configurateion which is easily cleared by Ad-Aware...

This is without use of Firewall or AV on a system.. I don't know of another browser that allows for that much security without firewall, proxie, or AV constantly scanning their system slowing their performance...

Use Forefox if you like, I prefer to see the Internet the way it was designed by the site creators.
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Ravok

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2005, 03:16:24 pm »
 How come the grapics here look like crud On IE and not on fire fox?

 In IE my rank insignia looks like dog flop. Not with Fire Fox tho. and i have noticed the same on other sites.
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Offline Demandred

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2005, 05:44:01 pm »
Quote from: Pestalence on March 17, 2005, 03:06:22 pm
Quote from: Demandred on March 17, 2005, 01:22:13 pm
Usually not much time. Mostly people think IE is the internet and refuse to switch. Personally I don't care unless it's someone asking me for help - I now refuse to help people with spyware infested boxes after I've told them to switch to Firefox. It's their own damn fault at that point and I'm not going to spend hours of my life fixing something caused by deliberate stupidity.

Well, if you don't know how to properly set up an operating system and have to resort to 3rd party software to keep your system running, then why are you using a PC to begin with?

Internet Explorer is part of Windows.. it is the best browser out there.. Period... the only limitation is tabbed browsing, which it doesn't have YET.. wait for IE 7.0

Now to Properly configure your IE, you can email me or PM me and I will show you step by step on how to fix your system up to prevent 99.9% of spyware and ad-ware from getting on your system using ONLY IE.. 3 or 4 cookies will trickle in that are tracking cookies using the proper configurateion which is easily cleared by Ad-Aware...

This is without use of Firewall or AV on a system.. I don't know of another browser that allows for that much security without firewall, proxie, or AV constantly scanning their system slowing their performance...

Use Forefox if you like, I prefer to see the Internet the way it was designed by the site creators.


I know exactly how to set up an operating system. I've set up Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT Server, Windows 2000 Pro, Windows 2000 Advanced Server, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003 Enterprise, FreeBSD, Red Hat 9, SuSE 9.1, SuSE 9.2, Ubuntu, Debian Sarge, and done a Gentoo stage 1 install or two w/ custom compiler options for the specific processer architecture. I get paid to develop and manage high-volume server software. My SuSE 9.2 AMD64 system that I built a few months ago is running just fine, trust me. Though I don't spend much time in the Windows XP PlayStation OS, it runs just fine too.  I was talking about friends that aren't technical. Now, on to business.

1. Windows. A piece of crap that I wouldn't allow to connect to the internet without a good hardware firewall. Forget 0-day exploits, Microsoft generally takes several months to fix even critical security holes. And due to the thoroughly flawed permissions system, EVERY exploit is a root expoit.

2. Internet Explorer. Has ActiveX allowed by default, probably the most insanely dangerous decision ever made by Microsoft. Does not support basic web standards such as CSS2. Implements large chunks of supported standards wrongly. Rendering engine parses slowly compared to Gecko and KHTML. Many many unpatched security holes due to little maintainance for over four years and careless programming to begin with, ranging from simple buffer overflows and underflows to flaws in the local and internet zone design involving iframes. And plain ugly compared to a nicely skinned Firefox. Web designers are no longer designing primarily for IE, they are designed to W3C standards (which Microsoft has pumped a lot of money into over the years) and altering just enough to get by in IE. Professionals now design web applications to the XHTML standard which allows clean seperation between the data layer and the presentation layer.

"This is without use of Firewall or AV on a system.. I don't know of another browser that allows for that much security without firewall, proxie, or AV constantly scanning their system slowing their performance.."

Further proof that you don't know what you are talking about. For starters, firewalls. The functions of a firewall are to prevent external access to ports on  a computer bound to processes listening for a connection and to prevent unknown applications from connecting to the internet. As a brower only initiates a connection and does not listen for connections, a firewall makes absolutely no difference at all. The function of a proxie is to be an internet gateway, preventing direct TCP/IP access to a machine and has no bearing on a browser whatsoever. As for an AV constantly scanning a system, the only thing it does is prevent hostile execuable binaries from running. In the context of a browser this is only relevent if the browser has a serious security flaw allowing arbitrary execution of code. Firefox, Opera, Conqueror and Safari currently have no known exploits allowing this. Internet Explorer has.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2005, 06:58:03 pm »
I was referring to Hijackers/ Adware/ Trojans/ Malware /etc... Yes IE has Active X on by default.. the trick is to know the proper settings that will prevent the affore mentioned problems from getting on a system..

as for security flaws.. IE was updated in XPSP 2... many of the security flaws you mention are patched and a few critical updates have came out since then.. IE 7.0 will be an almost total rewrite of IE in the relm of security, setting a new higher "Copywritten" standard above the other browsers.. I forsee another Microsoft Lawsuit about code sharing from their new browser...

Also, I agree Windows does suck.. however, It is the only OS that you can run 99.9% of software on the market without having to go through loops and hoops to get set up...

How many Custom Installs and tweaks do you have to do with other OS systems.. Windows.. out of box, on to HDD, Install game.. go to town playing...

Windows, Out of box, install Office, go to town with work...

and it is just that easy..

It takes me 2 hours to completely format my system and reinstall XP with 2 or 3 games as well.. and this is fully operational with Office on board, already online playing in multi-player...

That is why Microsoft is one of the most demanded OS's on the market.. I prefer Linux myself... however, I have gotten use to Win XP and it is pretty stable.. I have only done about 6 tweaks to get it as stable as Mac OS X.. SO I can live with that.. as far as exploits or hacks into my system.. none have happened since 2002 when I got my first copy of XP... so It must be special people out there who keep getting hacked.. I keep seeing someone post every other day that they were hacked... Man I wish I had Top Secrete information on my system to worry about like that. Anyhow.. I haven't had any Intrusion attempts on my system in over 3 and 1/2 years... so how flawed can XP be... Yes I run a Firewall which monitors intrusion attempts and notifies me, I run an AV, I have spam protection, script protection , protection this and that...

My point is this.. with all the stuff I have with Panda for Protection of my system.. yout of 6 months, It has only blocked 1 invalid script execution that IE settings couldn't handle on it's own... That says a lot for system security of XP.. and I go to a LOT ov non advisable sites loaded with trojans, hijackers, Active X controlls, Keyloggers, macros, etc.... currently my system at last scan only had 2 tracking cookies for the last 4 days..

Anyhow.. keep with the other stuff.. You may like it.. I like Linux muself.. but XP is grown on me quite a bit.. the more I work with it, the more it works with me and it gets the job done.. if something doesn't work right, then a quick registry tweak, restart.. and bam it works... like I stated, only had to do 6 tweaks on the Registry in relation to XP in the last 3 years and it works great  and it is fast...

But then I keep my registry cleaned, and I also dump prefetch and temp file folders every time I go to log off..

Anyhow.. have fun...

I have no clue to what I am talking about.... I have only been working on Home Custom Built PC's and servers since I was 16, and I'm 31 now..

Your way is not the only correct way.. everyone has their own style in doing things.. I like using native enviroment components without filling my HDD up with 3rd party useless crap... You like using 3rd party useless crap instead of native components.. does it make a difference.. no.. just 2 different styles in what we do.. I've been working with Windows since I was 10.. I was working in Dos before then.. so please try not to assume you know that I am talking crap.. you make an ASS out of U not ME.

If you take this the wrong way.. then so be it.. I am not in the best of moods at the moment.
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Offline Age

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2005, 08:16:28 pm »
Quote
But then I keep my registry cleaned, and I also dump prefetch and temp file folders every time I go to log off..

How do you do this as my temp folder has lots of stuff in it and mostly txt files and some downloads I made like EPack V1.04?Thanks ;)
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Offline Age

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2005, 08:22:09 pm »
Quote from: Ravok on March 17, 2005, 03:16:24 pm
How come the grapics here look like crud On IE and not on fire fox?

 In IE my rank insignia looks like dog flop. Not with Fire Fox tho. and i have noticed the same on other sites.
It depends on what theme you are useing I am useing Windows and on IE the ranks look better then Fiefox as I have both the images load a little faster with Firefox.Sorry if it seems like I am spamming I don't mean to as I didn't read the enitre thread.
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Offline Captain Pierce

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2005, 09:17:41 pm »
The thing people forget about Firefox is that you have to think in Russian...

(God, I love that horrible joke...  :D )
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2005, 10:28:52 pm »
Quote from: Age on March 17, 2005, 08:16:28 pm
Quote
But then I keep my registry cleaned, and I also dump prefetch and temp file folders every time I go to log off..

How do you do this as my temp folder has lots of stuff in it and mostly txt files and some downloads I made like EPack V1.04?Thanks ;)

OK.. go to start and go into programs.. open Notepad..

Now in notepad, put in the following 2 lines :


del C:\Windows\Prefetch\*.* /Q
del C:\Windows\Temp\*.* /Q


Now go to File and select Save AS

put in a name like File_Clean.bat

Now under where you enter the name, change *.txt to all files, then change the save location to C:\

now when you want to clean out these files.. just double click this file and your Windows Temp and Prefetch files will clear out..

Next go to C:\Documents and Settings\<UserName>\Local Settings\Temp and delete all the files you can.. there may be 1 or 2 files in there that you may not be able to delete.. don't worry about them.. next empty recyle bin.. then restart your system 2 times.. this will now reload the necessary files back into prefetch.. do this once a week to keep Windows system perfomance.. Prefetch files corrupt after about 3 to 4 weeks as programs attempt to load from the prefetch, cleaning the prefetch and restarting system 2 times reloads the prefetch files fresh and new.

Hope that this helps.
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Offline Grim

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2005, 10:47:53 am »
The issue is (and point me out if i'm wrong) unless IE is configured properly its insecure?

Not everyone, especially new internet or computer users may not have the knoweldge to configure IE to make it fully secure etc. if i didnt know how to configure it to make it secure and there was an alterntive browser which was noted to be more secure then i would of course switch.

Thats the real issue why a lot of users have switched to alterntive broswers because of the stories they hear about IE being so insecure and also that they dont possess the knowledge to close the various loopholes in IE.

I'm a firefox user and i am extremely satisified with the performance i have had out of it so far.
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Offline toasty0

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2005, 10:50:14 am »
Quote from: Grim on March 20, 2005, 10:47:53 am

The issue is (and point me out if i'm wrong) unless IE is configured properly its insecure?

Not everyone, espcially new internet or computer users may not have the knoweldge to configure IE to make it fully secure etc. if i didnt know how to configure it to make it secure and there was an alterntive browser which was noted to be more secure then i would of course switch.

Thats the real issue why a lot of users have switched to alterntive broswers because of the stories they hear about IE being so insecure and they dont possess the knowledge to close loopholes in IE.

I'm a firefox users and i am extreemely satisified with the performance i have had out of it so far.

Have you installed the latest version of FF? If not, then you are in fact less secure than any version of IE since 4.0.

Jerry
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Offline Monty

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2005, 04:01:25 am »
Quote from: Grim on March 20, 2005, 10:56:58 am
Not being a technical wiz i do not know the details about the new firefox or its security.

In my previous post i was not arguing the fact that one browser is better than the other more to the point i was talking about the general perception of the browers. From what i have read you have to configure IE to make sure it is secure and from all the articles i've read there had beena shift towards firefox being more secure. Hell a lot of internet security firms/analysts told people to stop using IE at one point, sure this might of changed due to updates etc but the perception towards IE being safe from what i have seen hasnt occured.

Firefox may now be unsecure though i havent seen articles to say that, and IE may now be the more secure browser, but due to the bad reputation it got a while back i think it will be difficult to attract some users to use it again.

Grim

I think toasy was just making sure that you had the latest version 1.01 as it fixes the following bugs(some big ones in there):

MFSA 2005-29  Internationalized Domain Name (IDN) homograph spoofing
MFSA 2005-28 Unsafe /tmp/plugtmp directory exploitable to erase user's files
MFSA 2005-27 Plugins can be used to load privileged content
MFSA 2005-26 Cross-site scripting by dropping javascript: link on tab
MFSA 2005-25 Image drag and drop executable spoofing
MFSA 2005-24 HTTP auth prompt tab spoofing
MFSA 2005-23 Download dialog source spoofing
MFSA 2005-22 Download dialog spoofing using Content-Disposition header
MFSA 2005-21 Overwrite arbitrary files downloading .lnk twice
MFSA 2005-20 XSLT can include stylesheets from arbitrary hosts
MFSA 2005-19 Autocomplete data leak
MFSA 2005-18 Memory overwrite in string library
MFSA 2005-17 Install source spoofing with user:pass@host
MFSA 2005-16 Spoofing download and security dialogs with overlapping windows
MFSA 2005-15 Heap overflow possible in UTF8 to Unicode conversion
MFSA 2005-14 SSL "secure site" indicator spoofing
MFSA 2005-13 Window Injection Spoofing
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Offline Grim

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Re: So, you don't like Firefox - but have you used it?
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2005, 07:22:01 am »
Quote from: toasty0 on March 20, 2005, 10:50:14 am
Quote from: Grim on March 20, 2005, 10:47:53 am

The issue is (and point me out if i'm wrong) unless IE is configured properly its insecure?

Not everyone, espcially new internet or computer users may not have the knoweldge to configure IE to make it fully secure etc. if i didnt know how to configure it to make it secure and there was an alterntive browser which was noted to be more secure then i would of course switch.

Thats the real issue why a lot of users have switched to alterntive broswers because of the stories they hear about IE being so insecure and they dont possess the knowledge to close loopholes in IE.

I'm a firefox users and i am extreemely satisified with the performance i have had out of it so far.

Have you installed the latest version of FF? If not, then you are in fact less secure than any version of IE since 4.0.

Jerry

Oops looks like i misread your post, must of been due to tiredness hardly any sleep in the past few days, my appologies Toasty and yes i have the latest version of firefox.
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