Topic: Playoffs (Winter '04-'05 Season)

[GDA-Kel]

Playoffs will begin as soon as the regular season ends.  Here’s the bracket I have been thinking about.  Unless there is strong opposition, this is what we will be using:

Match #1
1st place Delta                       Semifinal #1
vs.                                    Match#1 winner
4th place Alpha                 vs.
                                        Match #2 winner
Match #2
2nd place Delta                                                               Championship Match
vs.                                                                                Semifinal #1 winner
3rd place Alpha                                                                        vs
                                                                                     Semifinal #2 winner
Match #3
3rd place Delta                   Semifinal #2
vs.                                   Match #3 winner 
2nd place Alpha                  vs.
                                        Match #4 winner
Match #4
4th place Delta
vs.
1st place Alpha

Tiebreakers to determine final standings:

1st tiebreaker: best divisional record
2nd tiebreaker: best overall record
3rd tiebreaker: best head-to-head record
4th tiebreaker:  coin toss

[Nomad]

I am a little confused.

I thought this was like the football league.

Best overall record in each division.

Then if 2 teams had the same overall record, then we would go for divisional record as the first tie breaker, then head to head etc.

[KBF-Butcher]

I had the feeling that this would be like the previous cycles:The first place fleets of each division go to the playoffs.Since though we only have 4 in each division then at least i beleive we should somehow award  the fleets that won most matches in the regular season so the wins there will have a meaning.

Therefore this is what i suggest wich is very similar to the previous cycles.

4thplace delta and alpha are disqualified from the playoffs.
Delta division:3rdplace vs 2ndplace ->Semifinals:winner vs 1stplace  they fight for the Delta divisional championship and for the league final match
Alpha division:3rdplace vs 2ndplace ->Semifinals:winner vs 1stplace  they fight for the Alpha divisional championship and for the league final match



Match #1
2nd place Delta               Semifinal #1(delta champion)
vs.                                    1st place delta
3rd place Delta                            vs.
                                        Match #1 winner                         Championship Match
                                                                                         Semifinal #1 winner
                                                                                                     vs
                                                                                         Semifinal #2 winner
                                      Semifinal #2(Alpha champion)
                                       1st place alpha
                                           vs
 Match #2                         Match #2 winner   
2nd place Alpha                                                               
vs.                                                                               
3rd place Alpha                                                                                                                                                           


                 
                               

[GDA-Kel]

I had the feeling that this would be like the previous cycles:The first place fleets of each division go to the playoffs.Since though we only have 4 in each division then at least i beleive we should somehow award  the fleets that won most matches in the regular season so the wins there will have a meaning.

Therefore this is what i suggest wich is very similar to the previous cycles.

4thplace delta and alpha are disqualified from the playoffs.
Delta division:3rdplace vs 2ndplace ->Semifinals:winner vs 1stplace  they fight for the Delta divisional championship and for the league final match
Alpha division:3rdplace vs 2ndplace ->Semifinals:winner vs 1stplace  they fight for the Alpha divisional championship and for the league final match



Match #1
2nd place Delta               Semifinal #1(delta champion)
vs.                                    1st place delta
3rd place Delta                            vs.
                                        Match #1 winner                         Championship Match
                                                                                         Semifinal #1 winner
                                                                                                     vs
                                                                                         Semifinal #2 winner
                                      Semifinal #2(Alpha champion)
                                       1st place alpha
                                           vs
 Match #2                         Match #2 winner   
2nd place Alpha                                                               
vs.                                                                               
3rd place Alpha                                                                                                                                                           


                 
                               

I thought one of the negatives about previous cycles was if a fleet has a bad record and already knew it wouldnt make the playoffs, then there was further dis-incentive to finish the regular season.  With only 8 teams, it made sense (to me) to arrange all 8 in a playoff bracket.

The other aspect you noticed was cross-divisional pairings in the brackets.  This was done so if one bracket had exceptionally good fleets in it (i.e it was a hard divison), a team with a mediocre record in that division wouldn't be penalized by having to face a team from the same diviision in the 1st round.

Here in the US, every year this time, we have a huge sporting event called 'March Madness' where the top 64 college basketball teams participate in a single elimination tournament to crown the overall  champion.  The best teams in the country in the regular season are rewarded in two ways: (1) given a    venue that is geographically close to their University, thereby giving them somewhat of a 'home court advantage.'   (2) is giving them a 16th seed to play in the first round (i.e. one of the 4 weakest teams in the tournament). 

We cannot simulate 'home court advantage' in our league.  I can reward better fleets (i.e. better regular season record) with a 1st round matchup against the weakest fleet in the opposing division.

Having said all that, this is YOUR league, and I am a lame-duck commissioner.  I will create whatever  tournament format that is agreeable to the majority of fleets.

Speak now or forever hold your peace!
                     

[GDA-Kel]

I am a little confused.

I thought this was like the football league.

Best overall record in each division.

Then if 2 teams had the same overall record, then we would go for divisional record as the first tie breaker, then head to head etc.

You are correct.  The 1st and 2nd tiebreakers should be reversed.

[KBF-Butcher]

I m ok with the idea of cross-divisional pairings .
I do beleive though that the regular season record should have better value.

[FPF-Bach]

I do beleive though that the regular season record should have better value.

Me too.

[762_XC]

Why not let the team with the better record select terrain for Game #3 of each match?

[FPF-Bach]

Why not let the team with the better record select terrain for Game #3 of each match?

What if it doesn't get to game 3?

[762_XC]

Then it doesn't. Home-court advantage shouldn't be a slam-dunk.

I guess they could pick Game 1 instead.

[FPF-Bach]

Why don't we just have to top 2 teams from each division face off to decide the champions.

If the last place team were to win everything they would essentially be given a second chanse after a bad season.  This directly ditracts from the teams that are on top of each division.

Just for for thought I guess...not sure what the best answer might be but I'm not partial to the current setup.

[KBF-Butcher]

With the setup i propose the last place team wont qualify to the playoffs but at the same time gives to the fleets that r currently in the last places the chance  to fight ,till the end of the reg season ,for the 3rd place that will give them the right to go on.
The first fleet in each division will be rewarded to qualify directly to the semifinals.
The 3rd and second place fleets will play to qualify to the semi finals.
This way all fleets will have something to fight for ,till the last match of the regular season.

[FPF-Bach]

With the setup i propose the last place team wont qualify to the playoffs but at the same time gives to the fleets that r currently in the last places the chance  to fight ,till the end of the reg season ,for the 3rd place that will give them the right to go on.
The first fleet in each division will be rewarded to qualify directly to the semifinals.
The 3rd and second place fleets will play to qualify to the semi finals.
This way we just cut it in the middle of what Kel suggests and what it used to be.

I should have read your idea more closly.  This is a good compromise I like it alot better.

[Dfly]

I agree with Butcher's idea of playoffs even though I am on a 4th place team with little or no chance of making the playoffs.  Kel's idea is good too.  The only suggestion I can make for Butcher's idea is to have the 2nd place Alpha play the 3rd place Delta, and the 2nd place Delta to play the 3rd place Alpha, just to show a bit more interaction between the Quadrants.

[KBF-Butcher]

The only suggestion I can make for Butcher's idea is to have the 2nd place Alpha play the 3rd place Delta, and the 2nd place Delta to play the 3rd place Alpha, just to show a bit more interaction between the Quadrants.

Yeah right as i posted i agree with Kel 's  idea of cross-divisional pairings so...

As we are reaching close to the playoffs i beleive we should make a decision about what playoffs setup we want.

Option A:

Match #1
1st place Delta                       Semifinal #1
vs.                                    Match#1 winner
4th place Alpha                 vs.
                                        Match #2 winner
Match #2
2nd place Delta                                                               Championship Match
vs.                                                                                Semifinal #1 winner
3rd place Alpha                                                                        vs
                                                                                     Semifinal #2 winner
Match #3
3rd place Delta                   Semifinal #2
vs.                                   Match #3 winner 
2nd place Alpha                  vs.
                                        Match #4 winner
Match #4
4th place Delta
vs.
1st place Alpha

Tiebreakers to determine final standings:

1st tiebreaker: best divisional record
2nd tiebreaker: best overall record
3rd tiebreaker: best head-to-head record
4th tiebreaker:  coin toss


Option B:

Match #1
2nd place Delta                     Semifinal #1
vs.                                    1st place delta
3rd place Alpha                            vs.
                                        Match #1 winner                         Championship Match
                                                                                         Semifinal #1 winner
                                                                                                     vs
                                                                                         Semifinal #2 winner
                                         Semifinal #2
                                       1st place alpha
                                           vs
 Match #2                         Match #2 winner   
2nd place Alpha                                                               
vs.                                                                               
3rd place Delta

Anyone  may has another option please post it.

May the fleet repr post what option they want for the upcoming playoffs setup

[Dfly]

TSC prefers option A, only because it guarantees 4th place a chance in the playoffs.  Do remember that 4th place in either division would most likely have been beaten by nearly every fleet it faced.

if option B is to be chosen, TSC has no problem with that.

[FPF-Bach]

FPF votes for option B.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Option 1 or A.

[[ISC]Phaser]

ISC votes option B

[KBF-Butcher]

FSD , SoV ,9th and KHH if u could vote so we could close this issue ..

[762_XC]

Since Ronin and Payne are AWOL I am pretty much acting fleet rep for =SoV=. 

=SoV= votes option A.

[Mutilator]

A

[FPF-Bach]

I must say I'm concerned at how this vote seems to be turning out.  I don't think the teams with worse records should be rewarded for them by being allowed to enter the playoffs and have a chance at actually winning the championship.  By allowing these teams into the playoffs it detracts from what the teams with better records have accomplished in the regular season their records should count for and mean something in the overall scheme of the league.  If we go about the playoffs in this way, then what is the point of having a season why not just have a tournament and skip the season?

I'm sorry but this seems wrong to me and members of my team that I have discussed it with.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I must say I'm concerned at how this vote seems to be turning out.  I don't think the teams with worse records should be rewarded for them by being allowed to enter the playoffs and have a chance at actually winning the championship.  By allowing these teams into the playoffs it detracts from what the teams with better records have accomplished in the regular season their records should count for and mean something in the overall scheme of the league.  If we go about the playoffs in this way, then what is the point of having a season why not just have a tournament and skip the season?

I'm sorry but this seems wrong to me and members of my team that I have discussed it with.

Hmm they do count for bracketing. The point of the season and playoffs is for having fun playing SFC. Don't worry though your vote gets counted like everyone elses.

[FPF-Bach]

Hmm they do count for bracketing. The point of the season and playoffs is for having fun playing SFC. Don't worry though your vote gets counted like everyone elses.

Just voicing my opinion Kroma (typing it actually I know how technical you like to get) thanks for noticing and having a problem with it as usual. 

[762_XC]

I still think the home court advantage (choosing terrain) idea is a good one.

That said, given the disparity in the records I don't think the first place teams have much to worry about in the first round.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Hmm they do count for bracketing. The point of the season and playoffs is for having fun playing SFC. Don't worry though your vote gets counted like everyone elses.

Just voicing my opinion Kroma (typing it actually I know how technical you like to get) thanks for noticing and having a problem with it as usual. 

So it is alright for you to voice your opinion, but not me if mine differs from yours? Where did I say I had a problem with you voicing your opinion exactly? You implied that the regular season was meaningless with option A, I merely pointed out that it still served a purpose besides being fun. You even used a question mark inviting response. Next time let us know if you only meant agreeable responses. Lighten up.

[Nomad]

9th votes option B.

Regular season should mean something.

With option A...  you think this was hockey, and look where hockey is now.

[FPF-Bach]

So it is alright for you to voice your opinion, but not me if mine differs from yours?

It certainly is OK for you to voice your opinion I have no problem with it at all whether it differs from mine or notl.  It just seems you really really like to "incite debate" when it comes to anything I post.

You implied that the regular season was meaningless with option A, I merely pointed out that it still served a purpose besides being fun

I agree that the regular season is/was fun, however it is MY FEELING that it doesn't serve much of a purpose other then for fun if every fleet makes the playoffs (yes, there are the brackets, I don't feel like that's enough).

You even used a question mark inviting response. Next time let us know if you only meant agreeable responses. Lighten up.

I'll lighten up as soon as you stop busting my balls every chance you get.

[Kroma BaSyl]

It certainly is OK for you to voice your opinion I have no problem with it at all whether it differs from mine at all.  It just seems you really really like to "incite debate" when it comes to anything I post.

I simply stated a differring opinion to yours, which I am known to do to many more people besides yourself.

I'll lighten up as soon as you stop busting my balls every chance you get.

LOL...It is because of your often tight-arsed attitude that I so enjoy busting your balls though.

[KBF-Butcher]

I must say I'm concerned at how this vote seems to be turning out. I don't think the teams with worse records should be rewarded for them by being allowed to enter the playoffs and have a chance at actually winning the championship. By allowing these teams into the playoffs it detracts from what the teams with better records have accomplished in the regular season their records should count for and mean something in the overall scheme of the league. If we go about the playoffs in this way, then what is the point of having a season why not just have a tournament and skip the season?

I'm sorry but this seems wrong to me and members of my team that I have discussed it with.

Lets just be honest here im sure that everyone here have the same opinion with u Bach.
Its obvious that the option B is the right and fair setup for the playoffs.
Its the option that is closer to the previous cycles setup and even if Dfly f.ex voted option A he made it clear what option he beleive is the right one.

Im sure everyone had in mind before Kel came with that new idea that the first 2 place fleets of each division would have the right to be qualified at the playoffs.
We did some PBR modifications before the cycle begins but the rules and setup we followed was from the previous gz-cycles.

Now Kel's new setup suggestion came up almost in the middle of the regular season and thats just wrong.
His main inspiration to suggest this rule was that comparing to previous cycles fleets with worse records that knew they wouldnt make it to the playoffs there was further dis-incentive to finish the regular season.
We all agree there were some fleets that didnt have any chance to qualify to the playoffs after some regular season matches and so there wasnt any goal for them to fight further   but with option A all fleets havent got any goal to fight for as they will qualify anyway.
However,option B gives even to the fleet that is currently in 4th place the chance to fight for the 3rdplace and hope for playoffs qualification until the final  match of the season.Basicly every fleets record and place will have a meaning.

No the home court advantage (choosing terrain) idea is not a good one.Not only for the 3rd match(if there ll be any) but even for the 3 games just because the terrain type doesnt give any advantage or disadvantage to anyone.
Only nebula would give an advantage to the plasma race fleets but we dont use neb anyway.

Fun??? Sorry i though this is a Patrol Battle Rules Divisional Championship League and not a playground.
Besides im sure everyone of u has more fun(yeah i know we all have fun win or loose but thats not my point here) when playing for something ,the win or defeat has a meaning and the heartbeating begins...

That vote should be done before the regular season begins cause fleets vote according to their current record and their chance they have for the playoffs and not what they beleive is the right one(see Dfly).


The moderator already brought this new option ,thought and found some supporters so we should respect the vote outcome in any case.

[Dfly]

I must say I'm concerned at how this vote seems to be turning out. I don't think the teams with worse records should be rewarded for them by being allowed to enter the playoffs and have a chance at actually winning the championship. By allowing these teams into the playoffs it detracts from what the teams with better records have accomplished in the regular season their records should count for and mean something in the overall scheme of the league. If we go about the playoffs in this way, then what is the point of having a season why not just have a tournament and skip the season?

I'm sorry but this seems wrong to me and members of my team that I have discussed it with.

Lets just be honest here im sure that everyone here have the same opinion with u Bach.
Its obvious that the option B is the right and fair setup for the playoffs.
Its the option that is closer to the previous cycles setup and even if Dfly f.ex voted option A he made it clear what option he beleive is the right one.

Im sure everyone had in mind before Kel came with that new idea that the first 2 place fleets of each division would have the right to be qualified at the playoffs.
We did some PBR modifications before the cycle begins but the rules and setup we followed was from the previous gz-cycles.

Now Kel's new setup suggestion came up almost in the middle of the regular season and thats just wrong.
His main inspiration to suggest this rule was that comparing to previous cycles fleets with worse records that knew they wouldnt make it to the playoffs there was further dis-incentive to finish the regular season.
We all agree there were some fleets that didnt have any chance to qualify to the playoffs after some regular season matches and so there wasnt any goal for them to fight further   but with option A all fleets havent got any goal to fight for as they will qualify anyway.
However,option B gives even to the fleet that is currently in 4th place the chance to fight for the 3rdplace and hope for playoffs qualification until the final  match of the season.Basicly every fleets record and place will have a meaning.

No the home court advantage (choosing terrain) idea is not a good one.Not only for the 3rd match(if there ll be any) but even for the 3 games just because the terrain type doesnt give any advantage or disadvantage to anyone.
Only nebula would give an advantage to the plasma race fleets but we dont use neb anyway.

Fun??? Sorry i though this is a Patrol Battle Rules Divisional Championship League and not a playground.
Besides im sure everyone of u has more fun(yeah i know we all have fun win or loose but thats not my point here) when playing for something ,the win or defeat has a meaning and the heartbeating begins...

That vote should be done before the regular season begins cause fleets vote according to their current record and their chance they have for the playoffs and not what they beleive is the right one(see Dfly).


The moderator already brought this new option ,thought and found some supporters so we should respect the vote outcome in any case.

Let me make a few things clear.  I voted A because our team voted A.  I said I would be fine with B if it were to be the one chosen, not that I beleive B to be the proper way as you say I implied.

"We all agree there were some fleets that didnt have any chance to qualify to the playoffs after some regular season matches and so there wasnt any goal for them to fight further   but with option A all fleets havent got any goal to fight for as they will qualify anyway."
with option A, I dont see how ALL FLEETS havent got any goal, as positioning is all important.
However,option B gives even to the fleet that is currently in 4th place the chance to fight for the 3rdplace and hope for playoffs qualification until the final  match of the seasonWell, it just so happens that our last 2 matches mean nothing for us or our counterparts as We(TSC) cannot change the outcome of the positioning of any fleets at this time.  I have not checked the other last place fleet, but I doubt they will change any outcome of their remaining matches as well.  If this option is taken, fleets like TSC for ex. may as well not even bother to schedule or show up for our last matches.

I do agree with  you on the terrain not being any advantage or disadvantage as a home team thing.  That has very little to do with ship choosing etc, except in Nebula, as you stated, which we dont fly.

And yes, we should support the vote outcome in any case, as was the reason for my saying I will support option B IF IT IS THE ONE VOTED IN.  I am sorry to disagree with your tactics of voicing your opinion again after the voting has started and has yet to finish.  Your, and anyone else's opinion, should have all been before the actual vote, or after, not during(it seems maybe after this post, myself should be included in it, but thought the point should be brought up is all).  The fact that you voiced your opinion again when the votes are leaning towards an A option seems like you are trying to influence the remaining votes, even if that was not your goal.

Either way, it was  FUN flying here in this cycle, and there are actually teams that fly for fun here, not just for winning.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Either way, it was  FUN flying here in this cycle, and there are actually teams that fly for fun here, not just for winning.

Trust me Dfly, there are some that simply cannot understand this concept, and assume everyone else thinks as they do.

[762_XC]

Looks like we still need a vote from KHH.

[KBF-Butcher]

Let me make a few things clear. I voted A because our team voted A. I said I would be fine with B if it were to be the one chosen, not that I beleive B to be the proper way as you say I implied.

I agree with Butcher's idea of playoffs even though I am on a 4th place team with little or no chance of making the playoffs. Kel's idea is good too. The only suggestion I can make for Butcher's idea is to have the 2nd place Alpha play the 3rd place Delta, and the 2nd place Delta to play the 3rd place Alpha, just to show a bit more interaction between the Quadrants.

 
So yes: if Dfly f.ex voted option A he made it clear what option he beleive is the right one.

TSC prefers option A, only because it guarantees 4th place a chance in the playoffs. Do remember that 4th place in either division would most likely have been beaten by nearly every fleet it faced.

if option B is to be chosen, TSC has no problem with that.

So yes: that vote should be done before the regular season begins cause fleets vote according to their current record and their chance they have for the playoffs and not what they beleive is the right one(see Dfly).

Either way, it was FUN flying here in this cycle, and there are actually teams that fly for fun here, not just for winning.

Trust me Dfly, there are some that simply cannot understand this concept, and assume everyone else thinks as they do.

Besides im sure everyone of u has more fun(yeah i know we all have fun win or loose but thats not my point here) when playing for something ,the win or defeat has a meaning and the heartbeating begins...

The fact that you voiced your opinion again when the votes are leaning towards an A option seems like you are trying to influence the remaining votes, even if that was not your goal.

  who me influence KHH vote??? 

[Dfly]

9th votes option B.

Regular season should mean something.

With option A...  you think this was hockey, and look where hockey is now.

Hate to blow your bubble Nomad, but hockey has barely 1/2 of the teams making the playoffs.  How many teams , around 30ish, and 16 of them will make the playoffs.

[Nomad]

Oh yeah, they have a lot more teams in hockey now.
(Maybe that is why they are having all the financial troubles.)

I was thinking back to the 80's when they had 5 or 6 teams in a division and 4 made the playoffs.
That is when I used to watch it once in a while.

[KBF-Butcher]

looks like KHH dont want to vote although they should in order to finally end with a setup the majority wants.
We r in the end of the reg season and we should already have put a timeline of the fleets to vote.

[KHH-MiniMe]

KHH votes option .......A   the one with all participating

[Kroma BaSyl]

KHH votes option .......A   the one with all participating

Cool, so we have our decision. Option A it is.