Topic: What thread is Corbo's PPD rule in? (Read 16872 times)

KHH Jakle · « **on:** February 25, 2005, 02:26:02 pm »

I can't find it. The original rule and what he had were pretty close - but I can't remember how he put it

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2005, 02:36:39 pm »

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

Corbomite · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2005, 11:57:07 am »

Quote

The original rule and what he had were pretty close...

No, they're not. If, however, people can't figure out a rule (or the benefits of it) then it is not a good idea to use it as it will cause confusion.

KHH Jakle · « **Reply #3 on:** March 01, 2005, 08:24:51 am »

Everybody happy with Corbo's PPD rule?

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2005, 12:06:46 pm »

Quote from: KHH Jakle on March 01, 2005, 08:24:51 am

Everybody happy with Corbo's PPD rule?

I am.

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2005, 12:31:23 pm »

Quote from: Kroma on March 01, 2005, 12:06:46 pm

Quote from: KHH Jakle on March 01, 2005, 08:24:51 am
Everybody happy with Corbo's PPD rule?

I am.

Me 3

762_XC · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2005, 04:33:06 pm »

Sure.

[ISC]GreyWolf · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2005, 07:16:48 pm »

Quote from: Kroma on February 25, 2005, 02:36:39 pm

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

Except :
Some ISC CL class ships have 2 PPD. If they do, the only plasma they have is I-Torps.
CA ships will only have 1 PPD. CC ships will have 2. DN will have 3-4 PPD.

So I do not agree with Corb on this restriction.
I wish as much as anyone to stop the whining. ISC and PPD, Tenders and Casual Carriers, X-ships and First Gen X are all sore spots with someone, yet on SGO4 it was not such a big issue... ISC got somethin handed by Lyrans in MID and LATE with equal ships. The Feds were the very much the same as were Hydrans... Was it the shiplist? Not likely. More likely to be the skill of the pilot and proper strategy vs variuos races. Admittedly you might face a superior ship one v one, but that is the nature of DynaVerse.

No matter who you are if you don't have a good strategy vs equal ships, you will lose. Lots of PPD is cheese and so are fighters but limited amounts of each make the game interesting and challenging. Limit them too much and you take away from the game.

My suggestion is make your own shiplist. If enough people like it, they'll play it.
By simply cutting off ships from possible combinations, you limit the imagination of players and how fun the game can be.
Keep making the restrictions more complex will make some happy, but only the ones who don't have to figure them out as they don't apply.

You want fair? Make it 2 PPD for Light, 3 For Heavy, 4 for DN and 5 for BB.
This would be inline with what I understand of the theoretical History of a possible future of our universe.
This would allow for one CVLS,(which under the above rules would be unusable in any way as it is carrier - CL body and there aren't any Heavy Escorts to go with it)
or three CAY
or one DNZ
or one BB and a CAY

Which brings me to Casual Carriers...how is that Hydrans have lots of causal carriers, but every ISC (except the BB[Z]) with 4 fighters are considered a Carrier. Even one ship that is designated as a Carrier Escort is clasified as a carrier.

Think about it. But reason dictates that rules that are too complex will only cause rifts and confusion, leading to rules not being followed...

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2005, 09:46:10 am »

Quote from: [ISC]GreyWolf on March 01, 2005, 07:16:48 pm

Which brings me to Casual Carriers...how is that Hydrans have lots of causal carriers, but every ISC (except the BB[Z]) with 4 fighters are considered a Carrier. Even one ship that is designated as a Carrier Escort is clasified as a carrier.

Um, the Hydrans are the fighters race. That is their "thing."

Is this a serious question?

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2005, 10:02:18 am »

Quote from: [ISC]GreyWolf on March 01, 2005, 07:16:48 pm

Except :
Some ISC CL class ships have 2 PPD. If they do, the only plasma they have is I-Torps.
CA ships will only have 1 PPD. CC ships will have 2. DN will have 3-4 PPD.

It doesn't matter what the individual ship has. What the rule says is that if you are going to take a CL classed ship with 2 PPDs then you need to have at least one CA classed ship in your fleet. This has the side effect of insuring that there was enough TBPV in the fleets that the PPDs aren't OOT.

As for the CA classed ships with only 1 PPD, then take 3 CAYs to get your 3 PPDs, or some such.

His rule isn't about individual ships, but rather about the appropriate amount of PPD for a particular total TBPV fleet make up.

Corbomite · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2005, 04:06:03 pm »

The rule does make it a bit of as tight squeeze for the CS family as you can't take it in a CL squad and to take it in a CA squad you have a choice of five (useful) ships in OP+ 4.0. Three of those ships I would consider good to excellent. The CS's have better firepower than any other Strike Cruiser on a CL hull. The fact that it takes a bit of skill to fly it without heavy plasma backup is just part of it's make up.

[ISC]GreyWolf · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2005, 05:49:07 pm »

Quote from: Kroma on March 02, 2005, 10:02:18 am

Quote from: [ISC]GreyWolf on March 01, 2005, 07:16:48 pm

Except :
Some ISC CL class ships have 2 PPD. If they do, the only plasma they have is I-Torps.
CA ships will only have 1 PPD. CC ships will have 2. DN will have 3-4 PPD.

It doesn't matter what the individual ship has. What the rule says is that if you are going to take a CL classed ship with 2 PPDs then you need to have at least one CA classed ship in your fleet. This has the side effect of insuring that there was enough TBPV in the fleets that the PPDs aren't OOT.

As for the CA classed ships with only 1 PPD, then take 3 CAYs to get your 3 PPDs, or some such.

His rule isn't about individual ships, but rather about the appropriate amount of PPD for a particular total TBPV fleet make up.

It makes a big difference if you are excluding ships from being played at all. Like the CVLS, CVLZ...these ships would simply not be available for play at any bpv in any era... As the rules stand, there are only two decent escort ships for ISC anyway and no Heavy Escorts...Not much chance of getting a loaded Carrier and two flying coffins when you could get a BBn and two decent unrestr...Why not just say "No ISC ships at all in PBR"? That way you're all happy.

The Hydran question was just to bring some perspective to this whole discussion. Hydrans=Fighters...how many? when? where? no one cares if a 3v3 Hydran fleet can legally bring in 14 Horn3 with a ComVar and 2 unrestricteds...but PPD...hold on there cowboy...

Kroma, ISC has won more games with S-Plasma than PPD. Most TBPV make it prohibitive to have many anyway....show me a goup of 3 CL with 4 PPD and I'll show you a group of dead ISC, unless the other team is just chicken. Because they won't have the plasma to back it up and will be chased the whole game making the PPD useless...

KBF-Butcher · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2005, 06:22:07 pm »

I dont represent my fleet here to vote but i would like to write my oppinion...

I already stated when this corbo ppd rule came up that it really doesnt make any big difference relatively with the current one as
it is actually conficts only in some occasions and thats why i beleive most fleets didnt have any problem with the current one and voted it.Personally i didnt care what ppd rule we would use as it would be already restricted anyway but i would prefer something simplier(not only ppd rule) so new people/fleets would feel more comfortable to join the league.I beleive though that there isnt any interest for new blood to join in so that doesnt really matters now.

Looking at ISC games this cycle in total of 14games only in 3(we lost in 1) of them the ship combos werent according with corbo ppd rule
"If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three."
We used CCY CAY CAY and CCZ CAZ CAZ and according to corbo ppd rule we couldnt take that combo!So what?
We could take the CF instead of the CAZ!if u beleive that this would be more fair im ok with it but i really doubt

I know what Corbo is trying to do with his rule.He is basicly trying to force ISC races to choose wiser,not used combos where some not famous/ordinary ships would be included having more interesting combos for the people that they fly them.
Well he tryed to promote his ppd rule introducing it as more fair....

And then the whining starts again ...

btw for the record ISC won GDA(a fleet with the best current lizzards in the dynaverse community) in week6match using corbo ppd rules!
ISC also won GDA in cycle 3 using Jakle s ppd rule.

p.s:For those who still complains that ISC fleets win all games in this cycle and beleives its because of the current ppd rule check this and u ll find something very familiar http://gzleagues.com/cgibin/htmlos.cgi/93160.3.1865945443927570862
btw FPF were feds then.

I m tired and i need vacations so i m leaving for the carnival....Saaaaambaaaa

Catch ya all when the GW5

begins hf

Corbomite · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2005, 08:51:29 pm »

Greywolf has a point about the Strike Carriers. Since no ISC Escort Variant has PPD"s I would say that Carrier groups are exempt from the rule (only one ship could have PPD's anyway).

[ISC]GreyWolf · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2005, 11:24:29 pm »

Quote from: Corbomite on March 03, 2005, 08:51:29 pm

Greywolf has a point about the Strike Carriers. Since no ISC Escort Variant has PPD"s I would say that Carrier groups are exempt from the rule (only one ship could have PPD's anyway).

Just as a clarification here:
I am not assuming this to be a voting thread, simply discussion.
I am still supporting the last vote of my Fleet Admiral...4PPD no matter what combination. It is simple. Start getting into strict restrictions with exceptions, wherefores, blah blah blah, it is way too complex for just one race...the rest of the PBR rules would not be so long.
I think there is restriction enough on ISC. How many ISC carriers have been seen this cycle? How many 4 PPD CL combos have been seen? Your ideas about restricting ISC further need some merit before true consideration. What's wrong with the 4 PPD rule? Give some examples.

Corbomite · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2005, 11:59:59 pm »

I'm through expalining it. I couldn't care less what rule(s) is chosen. Just get the rules up so I can decide whether I want to fly under them or not.

Nomad · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2005, 03:28:59 pm »

Quote from: [ISC]GreyWolf on March 03, 2005, 05:49:07 pm

...Why not just say "No ISC ships at all in PBR"? That way you're all happy.

Sounds good to me.

762_XC · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2005, 04:12:42 pm »

Quote from: [ISC]GreyWolf on March 03, 2005, 05:49:07 pm

The Hydran question was just to bring some perspective to this whole discussion. Hydrans=Fighters...how many? when? where? no one cares if a 3v3 Hydran fleet can legally bring in 14 Horn3 with a ComVar and 2 unrestricteds...but PPD...hold on there cowboy...

The difference here is obvious. Fighters can be avoided.

[ISC]Phaser · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2005, 05:57:08 pm »

This league is becoming a joke now, i'm not sure what happened cause in cycle 1-2-3 at GZ matches were fun and the PPD bickering was at a min and if ya dont beleive me go look at the gz forums.Since we moved to d.net all the bickering has come from the d2 players and now its clear to me why 90% of your servers don't have ISC playable,yall just caint deal with the race (and i dont care what any of you say i know the truth the OSG4 server summed it up).
This will be ISC's last cycle as this has become a burden for me and my guys.....

GDA-Kel · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2005, 06:11:17 pm »

Quote from: [ISC]Phaser on March 04, 2005, 05:57:08 pm

This league is becoming a joke now, i'm not sure what happened cause in cycle 1-2-3 at GZ matches were fun and the PPD bickering was at a min and if ya dont beleive me go look at the gz forums.Since we moved to d.net all the bickering has come from the d2 players and now its clear to me why 90% of your servers don't have ISC playable,yall just caint deal with the race (and i dont care what any of you say i know the truth the OSG4 server summed it up).
This will be ISC's last cycle as this has become a burden for me and my guys.....

I'm sorry your fleet has not had as much fun as previous cycles. I honestly did not expect you guys to come over to D.net, so having you around for one season has been a plus. Good Luck to your fleet in the future.

I will make sure to account for your fleet's withdrawal in planning for the Spring/Summer season (if the season happens).

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Topic: What thread is Corbo's PPD rule in? (Read 16872 times)