Topic: What thread is Corbo's PPD rule in?

[KHH Jakle]

I can't find it.  The original rule and what he had were pretty close - but I can't remember how he put it

[Kroma BaSyl]

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

[Corbomite]

The original rule and what he had were pretty close...

No, they're not. If, however, people can't figure out a rule (or the benefits of it) then it is not a good idea to use it as it will cause confusion.

[KHH Jakle]

Everybody happy with Corbo's PPD rule?

[Kroma BaSyl]

Everybody happy with Corbo's PPD rule?

I am.

[FPF-DieHard]

Everybody happy with Corbo's PPD rule?

I am.

Me 3

[762_XC]

Sure.

[[ISC]GreyWolf]

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

Except :
Some ISC CL class ships have 2 PPD.  If they do, the only plasma they have is I-Torps.
CA ships will only have 1 PPD.  CC ships will have 2.  DN will have 3-4 PPD.

So I do not agree with Corb on this restriction.
I wish as much as anyone to stop the whining.  ISC and PPD, Tenders and Casual Carriers, X-ships and First Gen X are all sore spots with someone, yet on SGO4 it was not such a big issue...  ISC got somethin handed by Lyrans in MID and LATE with equal ships.  The Feds were the very much the same as were Hydrans...  Was it the shiplist?  Not likely.  More likely to be the skill of the pilot and proper strategy vs variuos races.  Admittedly you might face a superior ship one v one, but that is the nature of DynaVerse.

No matter who you are if you don't have a good strategy vs equal ships, you will lose.   Lots of PPD is cheese and so are fighters but limited amounts of each make the game interesting and challenging.  Limit them too much and you take away from the game.

My suggestion is make your own shiplist.  If enough people like it, they'll play it. 
By simply cutting off ships from possible combinations, you limit the imagination of players and how fun the game can be.
Keep making the restrictions more complex will make some happy, but only the ones who don't have to figure them out as they don't apply.

You want fair?  Make it 2 PPD for Light, 3 For Heavy, 4 for DN and 5 for BB.
This would be inline with what I understand of the theoretical History of a possible future of our universe.
This would allow for one CVLS,(which under the above rules would be unusable in any way as it is carrier - CL body and there aren't any Heavy Escorts to go with it)
or three CAY
or one DNZ
or one BB and a CAY

Which brings me to Casual Carriers...how is that Hydrans have lots of causal carriers, but every ISC (except the BB[Z]) with 4 fighters are considered a Carrier.  Even one ship that is designated as a Carrier Escort is clasified as a carrier.

Think about it.  But reason dictates that rules that are too complex will only cause rifts and confusion, leading to rules not being followed...

[FPF-DieHard]

Which brings me to Casual Carriers...how is that Hydrans have lots of causal carriers, but every ISC (except the BB[Z]) with 4 fighters are considered a Carrier.  Even one ship that is designated as a Carrier Escort is clasified as a carrier.

Um, the Hydrans are the fighters race.   That is their "thing."

Is this a serious question?   

[Kroma BaSyl]

Except :
Some ISC CL class ships have 2 PPD.  If they do, the only plasma they have is I-Torps.
CA ships will only have 1 PPD.  CC ships will have 2.  DN will have 3-4 PPD.

It doesn't matter what the individual ship has. What the rule says is that if you are going to take a CL classed ship with 2 PPDs then you need to have at least one CA classed ship in your fleet. This has the side effect of insuring that there was enough TBPV in the fleets that the PPDs aren't OOT.

As for the CA classed ships with only 1 PPD, then take 3 CAYs to get your 3 PPDs, or some such.

His rule isn't about individual ships, but rather about the appropriate amount of PPD for a particular total TBPV fleet make up.

[Corbomite]

The rule does make it a bit of as tight squeeze for the CS family as you can't take it in a CL squad and to take it in a CA squad you have a choice of five (useful) ships in OP+ 4.0. Three of those ships I would consider good to excellent. The CS's have better firepower than any other Strike Cruiser on a CL hull. The fact that it takes a bit of skill to fly it without heavy plasma backup is just part of it's make up.

[[ISC]GreyWolf]

Except :
Some ISC CL class ships have 2 PPD.  If they do, the only plasma they have is I-Torps.
CA ships will only have 1 PPD.  CC ships will have 2.  DN will have 3-4 PPD.

It doesn't matter what the individual ship has. What the rule says is that if you are going to take a CL classed ship with 2 PPDs then you need to have at least one CA classed ship in your fleet. This has the side effect of insuring that there was enough TBPV in the fleets that the PPDs aren't OOT.

As for the CA classed ships with only 1 PPD, then take 3 CAYs to get your 3 PPDs, or some such.

His rule isn't about individual ships, but rather about the appropriate amount of PPD for a particular total TBPV fleet make up.

It makes a big difference if you are excluding ships from being played at all.  Like the CVLS, CVLZ...these ships would simply not be available for play at any bpv in any era... As the rules stand, there are only two decent escort ships for ISC anyway and no Heavy Escorts...Not much chance of getting a loaded Carrier and two flying coffins when you could get a BBn and two decent unrestr...Why not just say "No ISC ships at all in PBR"?  That way you're all happy.

The Hydran question was just to bring some perspective to this whole discussion.  Hydrans=Fighters...how many? when? where? no one cares if a 3v3 Hydran fleet can legally bring in 14 Horn3 with a ComVar and 2 unrestricteds...but PPD...hold on there cowboy...

Kroma, ISC has won more games with S-Plasma than PPD.  Most TBPV make it prohibitive to have many anyway....show me a goup of 3 CL with 4 PPD and I'll show you a group of dead ISC, unless the other team is just chicken.  Because they won't have the plasma to back it up and will be chased the whole game making the PPD useless...

[KBF-Butcher]

I dont represent my fleet here to vote but i would like to write my oppinion...

I already stated when this corbo ppd rule came up that it really doesnt make any big difference relatively with the current one as
it is actually conficts only in some occasions and thats why i beleive most fleets didnt have any problem with the current one and voted it.Personally i didnt care what ppd rule we would use as it would be already restricted anyway but i would prefer something simplier(not only ppd rule) so new people/fleets would feel more comfortable to join the league.I beleive though that there isnt any interest for new blood to join in so that doesnt really matters now.
Looking at ISC games this cycle  in total of 14games only in 3(we lost in 1) of them the ship combos werent according with corbo ppd rule
"If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three."
We used CCY CAY CAY and CCZ CAZ CAZ  and according to corbo ppd rule we couldnt take that combo!So what?
We could take the CF instead of the CAZ!if u beleive that this would be more fair im ok with it but i really doubt

I know what Corbo is trying to do with his rule.He is basicly trying to force ISC races to choose wiser,not used combos where some not famous/ordinary ships would be included having more interesting combos for the people that they fly them.
Well  he tryed to promote his ppd rule introducing it as more fair....
And then the whining starts again ...

btw for the record ISC won GDA(a fleet with the best current lizzards in the dynaverse community) in week6match using corbo ppd rules!
ISC also won GDA in cycle 3 using Jakle s ppd rule.


p.s:For those who still complains that ISC fleets win all games in this cycle and beleives its because of the current ppd rule check this and u ll find something very familiar http://gzleagues.com/cgibin/htmlos.cgi/93160.3.1865945443927570862
btw FPF were feds then.

I m tired and i need vacations so i m leaving for the carnival....Saaaaambaaaa  
Catch ya all when the GW5   begins hf

[Corbomite]

Greywolf has a point about the Strike Carriers. Since no ISC Escort Variant has PPD"s I would say that Carrier groups are exempt from the rule (only one ship could have PPD's anyway).

[[ISC]GreyWolf]

Greywolf has a point about the Strike Carriers. Since no ISC Escort Variant has PPD"s I would say that Carrier groups are exempt from the rule (only one ship could have PPD's anyway).

Just as a clarification here:
I am not assuming this to be a voting thread, simply discussion.
I am still supporting the last vote of my Fleet Admiral...4PPD no matter what combination.  It is simple.  Start getting into strict restrictions with exceptions, wherefores, blah blah blah, it is way too complex for just one race...the rest of the PBR rules would not be so long.
I think there is restriction enough on ISC.  How many ISC carriers have been seen this cycle?  How many 4 PPD CL combos have been seen?  Your ideas about restricting ISC further need some merit before true consideration.  What's wrong with the 4 PPD rule?  Give some examples.

[Corbomite]

I'm through expalining it. I couldn't care less what rule(s) is chosen. Just get the rules up so I can decide whether I want to fly under them or not.

[Nomad]

...Why not just say "No ISC ships at all in PBR"?  That way you're all happy.

Sounds good to me.

[762_XC]

The Hydran question was just to bring some perspective to this whole discussion.  Hydrans=Fighters...how many? when? where? no one cares if a 3v3 Hydran fleet can legally bring in 14 Horn3 with a ComVar and 2 unrestricteds...but PPD...hold on there cowboy...

The difference here is obvious. Fighters can be avoided.

[[ISC]Phaser]

This league is becoming a joke now, i'm not sure what happened cause in cycle 1-2-3 at GZ matches were fun and the PPD bickering was at a min and if ya dont beleive me go look at the gz forums.Since we moved to d.net all the bickering has come from the d2 players and now its clear to me why 90% of your servers don't have ISC  playable,yall just caint deal with the race (and i dont care what any of you say i know the truth the OSG4 server summed it up).
This will be ISC's last cycle as this has become a burden for me and my guys.....

[GDA-Kel]

This league is becoming a joke now, i'm not sure what happened cause in cycle 1-2-3 at GZ matches were fun and the PPD bickering was at a min and if ya dont beleive me go look at the gz forums.Since we moved to d.net all the bickering has come from the d2 players and now its clear to me why 90% of your servers don't have ISC  playable,yall just caint deal with the race (and i dont care what any of you say i know the truth the OSG4 server summed it up).
This will be ISC's last cycle as this has become a burden for me and my guys.....

I'm sorry your fleet has not had as much fun as previous cycles.  I honestly did not expect you guys to come over to D.net, so having you around for one season has been a plus.  Good Luck to your fleet in the future.

I will make sure to account for your fleet's withdrawal in planning for the Spring/Summer season (if the season happens).

 

[FPF-Bach]

Greywolf has a point about the Strike Carriers. Since no ISC Escort Variant has PPD"s I would say that Carrier groups are exempt from the rule (only one ship could have PPD's anyway).

Just as a clarification here:
I am not assuming this to be a voting thread, simply discussion.
I am still supporting the last vote of my Fleet Admiral...4PPD no matter what combination.  It is simple.  Start getting into strict restrictions with exceptions, wherefores, blah blah blah, it is way too complex for just one race...the rest of the PBR rules would not be so long.
I think there is restriction enough on ISC.  How many ISC carriers have been seen this cycle?  How many 4 PPD CL combos have been seen?  Your ideas about restricting ISC further need some merit before true consideration.  What's wrong with the 4 PPD rule?  Give some examples.

Have you ever seen what 4PPDs can do when concentrated on a single target?

[[ISC]GreyWolf]

Have you ever seen what 4PPDs can do when concentrated on a single target?

Have you ever seen 14 Hornet3 can do concentrated on a single target?
4 PPD at range 10 do about the same damage as 4 F-Plasmas in the face, assuming all hit...but the damage is spread over 3 shields...
And once the 4 ppds at range 10 are exhausted? Have you ever heard of a chase?

[762_XC]

I've seen what 14 Hornet-3 do to a speed 31 target: absolutely nothing.

I've also seen what happens when you try to chase down the PPD ship.

[Corbomite]

Have you ever seen what 4PPDs can do when concentrated on a single target?

Have you ever seen 14 Hornet3 can do concentrated on a single target?
4 PPD at range 10 do about the same damage as 4 F-Plasmas in the face, assuming all hit...but the damage is spread over 3 shields...
And once the 4 ppds at range 10 are exhausted? Have you ever heard of a chase?

4 PPD's at range 15 equal (if all pulses hit) the same firepower as 16 disruptors on the facing shield and 4 proximity photons on each adjacent shield.

[Toast]

  LOL

[[ISC]GreyWolf]

4 PPD's at range 15 equal (if all pulses hit) the same firepower as 16 disruptors on the facing shield and 4 proximity photons on each adjacent shield.

4 PPD = 16 Pulses at 15 range = 48 main shield and 16 per adjacent shield every other turn.
= 24/8/8 per turn or 40 point per turn.
12 Dizzy per turn = 36 at range 15.
12 Photons /2turns charge = 96/2= 48 points per turn
6 S-Plasma /3turns = 132/3 = 44 points per turn
12 Hbore /3turns = 120/4 = 30 per turn
30 Phaser 1 /turn = 30 avg per turn at 15

So the only advantage with a max of 4 PPD is that it has a better hit ratio then the other direct fire at 15.  But it cannot be fired at 4 or less, where all the others continue to get better..
PPD best chance is 83% at range 4-10.
Dizzy 100% 0 -- Damage is also increase 40% vs range 15.
Photon 100% 0-1
HBore 97% 0-1 -- Damage is also increase 100% vs range 15
30 Phaser1 increase damage to a possible 120-270/turn at range 0.

The numbers above are likely seen in a 3v3 game. Just FYI so everyone is included.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

The Hydran question was just to bring some perspective to this whole discussion.  Hydrans=Fighters...how many? when? where? no one cares if a 3v3 Hydran fleet can legally bring in 14 Horn3 with a ComVar and 2 unrestricteds...but PPD...hold on there cowboy...

The difference here is obvious. Fighters can be avoided.

Yeah, just drop a shuttle and watch the confusion reign.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

This league is becoming a joke now, i'm not sure what happened cause in cycle 1-2-3 at GZ matches were fun and the PPD bickering was at a min and if ya dont beleive me go look at the gz forums.Since we moved to d.net all the bickering has come from the d2 players and now its clear to me why 90% of your servers don't have ISC playable,yall just caint deal with the race (and i dont care what any of you say i know the truth the OSG4 server summed it up).
This will be ISC's last cycle as this has become a burden for me and my guys.....

Honestly?

Considering the sportsmanship I have seen out of you and your guys, I could care less if you leave.

[Corbomite]

Since we moved to d.net all the bickering has come from the d2 players and now its clear to me why 90% of your servers don't have ISC  playable,yall just caint deal with the race (and i dont care what any of you say i know the truth the OSG4 server summed it up).

BS. There is bickering because PBR is being used and rules interpretations from SFB to SFC are not always straight forward. Even the SFB material placed restrictions on PPD deployment. We are just trying to work out a reasonable interpretation for a league using those parameters. Look at an ISC tourney ship and see what is considered a "fair and balanced" ISC ship against the rest of the galaxy.

[[ISC]Phaser]

Well corbo, if you go look at the gz forums the ppd issue was never an issue untill we came here i mean it was at first then we as a fleet realized it makes no difference, and really there was never this kind of BS about the rules and what not and using bugs to thwart off fighters i mean really, this is a chore now with 0 fun factor.The gz players never bitched about the ISC race and the rules were simple and clear, because of the different quality of flying that you d2 people are used to and yes the d2 vets are not in the same calliber as the vet league players in 3v3's, no offence intended you think that the ISC as a race needs further locking down and more restrictions to make it more balanced i say BS, trying to make this league follow sfb to the letter is killing it.. ask any gz fleet in cycle 1-3 before we moved here if it was more fun then then now!
www.gzleagues.com

p.s bearslayer i could care less about ur statments bro since your a new commer to our league...

[Toast]

Sportsmanship???? u mean like what i saw on the osg4, or are u speaking of sov vrs isc matches in general seems to me our matches have been mostly polite with sov and everyone else win or loss, our mission as a fleet has always been to include all our pilots in play no matter of skill level and have fun, it just so happens that we won a few cycles but i dont remember us dancing around jesting at others but now i see plenty dancing round at the thought of us leaving. We are mostly just a group of GSA players i dont feel we consider ourselves to be the best or unstoppable by any means we have been beaten and lost graciously and have won graciously, Is it the fact that we are a new fleet that has come and won? most here never paid any mind to most of our pilots before we came together and gave some old established fleets an eye opener. Rules have changed before and we have been able to adapted but I'm not getting a welcomed feeling here now and i dont feel its just the isc race so there for I for one do not feel the need to adapt to that enjoy............

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

p.s bearslayer i could care less about ur statments bro since your a new commer to our league...

If you didn't care, you wouldn't have commented now, would you?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Sportsmanship???? u mean like what i saw on the osg4, or are u speaking of sov vrs isc matches in general seems to me our matches have been mostly polite with sov and everyone else win or loss, our mission as a fleet has always been to include all our pilots in play no matter of skill level and have fun, it just so happens that we won a few cycles but i dont remember us dancing around jesting at others but now i see plenty dancing round at the thought of us leaving. We are mostly just a group of GSA players i dont feel we consider ourselves to be the best or unstoppable by any means we have been beaten and lost graciously and have won graciously, Is it the fact that we are a new fleet that has come and won? most here never paid any mind to most of our pilots before we came together and gave some old established fleets an eye opener. Rules have changed before and we have been able to adapted but I'm not getting a welcomed feeling here now and i dont feel its just the isc race so there for I for one do not feel the need to adapt to that enjoy............

IF you call using bugs sporting... and not returning the 'gg' when you guys lose being good sports... sure...

But I don't see it that as being good sports.

You can go or you can stay, doesn't matter to me.

[Toast]

Never has a gg not been returned unless there was some kinda bs going on in game that was in need of being addressed  and there has been plenty of bs thrown are way thats for damn sure mostly from the so called elite honorable fleets, u can cry over a shuttle here and there but i remember the crying in gz when we used alot of ftrs in one particular game only to have it returned 10 fold in another by folks who were on the anti ftr band wagon against us but it was fine when it suited there needs, that lobby pissin contest i do remember slayer  i do recall a fleet refusing to finish a match once we got slammed for that to, in the battle of public opinion we cant get a fair shake so we save it for the matches and let the chips fall ,seems that's what's really bothering folks how the chips have fallen. A break next cycle or 2 is for certain now, btw i do remember another isc fleet in gz that folks got wins off of icop so i dont think its the race thats the issue really enjoy the paper championships.........

[Corbomite]

Well corbo, if you go look at the gz forums the ppd issue was never an issue untill we came here i mean it was at first then we as a fleet realized it makes no difference, and really there was never this kind of BS about the rules and what not and using bugs to thwart off fighters i mean really, this is a chore now with 0 fun factor.

Well let's see, you had PBR for one incomplete, defunct cycle before we came here so I can believe there were no problems because there was no rule to balance. This concept is rather new and it is inevitable that things will have to be worked out a bit. Besides, if you can't have any fun winning all your matches I don't know what to tell you.

The gz players never bitched about the ISC race and the rules were simple and clear...

Different league, different rules. Live with it or don't. PBR dictates that certain things be monitored and PPD is one of them.

...because of the different quality of flying that you d2 people are used to and yes the d2 vets are not in the same calliber as the vet league players in 3v3's

    I am sooooo going to remember you said that.

you think that the ISC as a race needs further locking down and more restrictions to make it more balanced i say BS, trying to make this league follow sfb to the letter is killing it.. ask any gz fleet in cycle 1-3 before we moved here if it was more fun then then now!

Is that why GZ is dead then, because it was so fun? Talk to Jakle about the format, it's his baby, not ours. We are just trying to work out some kinks. As far as balancing the ISC you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but in my opinion, your opinion sucks.

[KBF-Butcher]

The Hydran question was just to bring some perspective to this whole discussion.  Hydrans=Fighters...how many? when? where? no one cares if a 3v3 Hydran fleet can legally bring in 14 Horn3 with a ComVar and 2 unrestricteds...but PPD...hold on there cowboy...

The difference here is obvious. Fighters can be avoided.

That means that ppd cant be avoided? lol
whining whining whining

IF you call using bugs sporting... and not returning the 'gg' when you guys lose being good sports... sure...

But I don't see it that as being good sports.

You can go or you can stay, doesn't matter to me.

ah? what?Thats BS! ISC r ALWAYS returning the gg
As for your good sportmanship i would like to remind u what u had reply me in OSG4 when i challenged u to meet me for 1v1:"U better go fight an AI"
That was good sportmanship yeah!
Good sport was also when the Alliance refused to fight against ISC players (luckily thx to Vader and 2tone we managed to hf playing some pvp vs Feds)
Good sportmanship was the really good welcome to league players by some of the dyna veterans  by being rude to them and blame them that theydont know the rules.
Good sportmanship was when a hydran player didnt ever returned the gg when i killed him in the GFZ!
One short look at the OSG4 threads u can understand from what people the bickering comes from  in the dyna servers as well.


bad sportmanship ,whining bickering whining bickering ....and whining is what some of u guys only provide ...U have prooved it many times
Luckily the majority of the dynaverse people isnt like the few of u...luckily


Phaser is right this league has became really boring with all these crap.
When this league had fleets like Icop and GT(Real Hydran fleet)... it really worth it.
I quit from now and i dont give a sh*t if u bearslayer or any other gonna care or not!
I play to hf u play only to win and if this isnot possible there comes the whine.
im sick of these sh*t.

p.sHail to FSD cause if there is a race that had the right to complain here about the rules is Lyran.But those guys only trying to hf here staying out of these sh*t 

p.s As for u Alliance lawyer 2face Corbo u had a different view of things talking about races at your postings on the ISC group. 

[762_XC]

That means that ppd cant be avoided? lol
whining whining whining

YOU are going to complain about whining?

 

[[ISC]Phaser]

again ur miss informed corbomite, there were 3 cycles before we came here and jakle was the reason for shutting down gz as he said he no longer had the time to run it ,the only defunct cycle is this one because of you and ur BS, butcher is right your opinion was very different on the bozobits forum about the other d2 players and their lack of balls to enguage ISC players,all i can say bro is u better bring ur best game, oh wait there wont be any AI's FOR U TO KILL...

[Corbomite]

Phaser & Butcher,

WTF does the D2 have to do with balancing a competitive league? My attitude about the D2 has absolutely no bearing on this part of the game. I've been saying the same thing here since the beginning. Try to stay on topic. We are trying to discuss the merits of PPD limitations in the PBR League, not how the ISC get screwed on the D2.

If you think calling me names or questioning my motives will sway my opinion you are wrong. The fact is I've been playing this game longer than you and I've actually had a small hand in shaping this game (you can thank me for your double duty, non-broken I-Torps). I've seen what good pilots are and what they can do and I would agree that many players around now could use some training and practice. That doesn't mean we shape our rules set around what people are doing, but what they can potentially do in the hopes that they will improve.

GreyWolf has got me thinking about the Light Strike Cruisers/Carriers and the unbalancing effect of the uber proxy photons as well. A more streamlined rule would fix the complexity issue (no need for an exception) and address the 12 photon NCL fleets the Feds can produce (and yes everyone I have to balance against the Feds because the source material is based that way). It would look like this:



If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA(CC) class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.



As for this little gem...

all i can say bro is u better bring ur best game, oh wait there wont be any AI's FOR U TO KILL...

I lost no ships in PVP the entire server and only ran from one fight when I was out classed by three hull sizes and damaged beyond futher ability to fight. I wish I could same the same for your boys. They lost several of our best ships in questionable matchups that they should have won or at least been able to disengage. Shall I bring up the kill list from SGO4 and count how many VC's your crack squad of pilots lost us?

[KHH Jakle]

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA(CC) class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

Sold

[[ISC]GreyWolf]

I lost no ships in PVP the entire server and only ran from one fight when I was out classed by three hull sizes and damaged beyond futher ability to fight. I wish I could same the same for your boys. They lost several of our best ships in questionable matchups that they should have won or at least been able to disengage. Shall I bring up the kill list from SGO4 and count how many VC's your crack squad of pilots lost us?

Better check your list twice and find out why there were so few cCCY when late era came around for cCCZ upgrades.
As I recall, not one made it from start to finish. And None of the [ISC] fleet had a cCCY to start...

If you want to throw blame around about who did what on Dyna and why what race lost...Start a different thread!!!!

[Corbomite]

Every ship lost was worth VC's and tell Phaser and Butcher, they brought up the D2 not me.

[FPF-DieHard]

Oh man, this is better than cable.   Let me get the popcorn . . . .

14 hornets?   

PS:   Since ISC is quitting and FPF is not flying ISC next cycle, can we just remove them as a race choice and end this? 

Trying to balance ISC in SFC is like trying to understand a woman's mind, just not worth the trouble.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

True dat!

[Toast]

Actually, I thought we came here well for 1 jackle was tired of running the show there not to mention all the fleets that bailed in cycle 3 and 2 the fact that all agreed that it was pointless for whoo to be paying a bunch of money out for the site so we were all trying to save him a buck or two( sites still up thou????). And 3 some folks thought it would be nice to try to get to know the dyna side of the game and it's players for those that had never played dyna like myself in a sort of lets consolidate the community thats the way i took it anyways. Good idea??? umm i dunno time will tell, but i do agree PBR is the best and most strategic way to play sfc online hands down and was a great move on gz's and now dynas part to go that direction with op and theres been a lot of fun and great battles fought with it but like anything else i guess kinks need worked out. Opinions will be noted and tempers will flare thats been one constant of sfc as a whole, a needed break i for one am taking but i feel the sfc adventure must continue we all love the game or we would not be here enjoy.............O yeh LOL ...PS. FPF we the ISC are going to kick ur arse tomorrow evening nothing personal no malice intended all in fun for a game we all enjoy :p or is it just a game?? LOL ...........

[Corbomite]

PS. FPF we the ISC are going to kick ur arse tomorrow evening nothing personal no malice intended all in fun for a game we all enjoy :p or is it just a game?? LOL ...........

Cool. You guys are so confident why don't we forget the terms and everyone flies CLY's in a nebula? Up for a real game or are you chicken?

[KBF-Butcher]

As for this little gem...

all i can say bro is u better bring ur best game, oh wait there wont be any AI's FOR U TO KILL...

I lost no ships in PVP the entire server and only ran from one fight when I was out classed by three hull sizes and damaged beyond futher ability to fight. I wish I could same the same for your boys. They lost several of our best ships in questionable matchups that they should have won or at least been able to disengage. Shall I bring up the kill list from SGO4 and count how many VC's your crack squad of pilots lost us?

 

Half of the server time u were hiding behind the BB.Basicly u entered the server when the BB came out.There were actually 2 ISC fleet members that fough in this server and played pvp ,me and Greywolf.Greywolf had always his woman to wing him ...
I was playing 10hours the day every day in this server and 80%of the time there i was flying CAY CAZ.
I might lost my CCY against Hexx L-STL dread but the guy draft me on the way back where i had to cover 10 hexxes to go to the nearest isc hex and i was out of supplies.U see i woke up the morning and all the way back to the isc hexxes had been taken by coallition or alliance while u were waiting the BB to come out.
I also lost my I-CLX vs bearlslayers same ship u had to disengaged.
U see all league players were dying for pvp in this server and basicly the lack of pvp in the isc side made us looking desperately for pvp s and stay there to fight no matter if we risk our ships when we had to fight against bigger hull ships.
Well i had a record of 9wins 2loss including a kill against a special ship the H-OM and over 30 ships had to disengage in my pvp s sometimes fighting against 2 person,too so..
How many VC the isc side won cause of u?How many were your kills?Basicly did u ever kill someone in a 1v1 fight? i doupt u were not even in the first 10 ISC MVP 

Unfortunately last months many of the Best pilots of our fleet r busy with real life and tomorrow u will not be bitchslaped as u disserve cause all u r is blah blah blah

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I think you have Corbo confused with Blade...

[Corbomite]

Do all of you only post in stream of consciousness?

[KBF-Butcher]

I think you have Corbo confused with Blade...

 ??? no i certainly dont!
Blade 's real life kept him away from the server at the most part.
Corbo first entered the server with the BB at the 4-5th day.He really helped to keep the isc lines(at least what they left from them as kligs and feds was in love then )
but thats all he did.He didnt do a single pvp kill with a line ship when Blade and Agave took the BB and in general his contribution at the ISC side was very very poor.
I ask again cause u started this ,how many VC the ISC side won from u from pvp kils ?  Whats the matter ?U brough this crap here and now u zip it?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I did NOT bring up SGO.  And I seem to have claimed more than a few VC's from the ISC as well as more than my fair share of Coalition ships.

I did lose a few to coalition pilots and one of them was a give me b/c I needed to be able to get back in the hex quicker.  Why else would a hex flipping FF try to jump a pair of heavy cruisers.

I don't recall losing any ships to the ISC. Though if I did, I still took more out of them, they did out of me.

Still, if you insist on carrying this line of reasoning... here is the thread you want...

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163351553.0.html

Enjoy.

[KBF-Butcher]

I did NOT bring up SGO. And I seem to have claimed more than a few VC's from the ISC as well as more than my fair share of Coalition ships.

I did lose a few to coalition pilots and one of them was a give me b/c I needed to be able to get back in the hex quicker. Why else would a hex flipping FF try to jump a pair of heavy cruisers.

I don't recall losing any ships to the ISC. Though if I did, I still took more out of them, they did out of me.

Still, if you insist on carrying this line of reasoning... here is the thread you want...

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163351553.0.html

Enjoy.

 ???
I replied to u that i dont confuse Blade with corbo!
The rest of my post i was refering to Corbo
As for the line of resoning that crap begun from Corbo i personally dont beleive someone performance in the servers has to do so much with his  skills in pvp.
I found the servers a great place just to have fun ,thats all.And i beleive the same feel all the league players that tryed it and thats why we were dying to find pvp games withough worrying so much to loose our ships and disengage when we were outnumbered.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Well, you didn't say that!!!!! 

[undertakker35]

OMG  now i know why i Quite playing in these Fleet GZ PBR's an for all us OLD TIMER'S  SL matches why cant PPL just Play the game  cause thats all this is   A GAME  not real life Hell in SFC3 most PPL wont play againt's a Borg Player cause the BORG r hard to defeat ( unless you know how ) here's a good Idea for all PPL to look at  play to have fun  an QUITE trying to find reasons to BITCH about how you team lost the dame freaking game   an for all you PPL who really know me ya all know i say what i have on my mind  an i really dont care if i step on someone's toes or not so let's just play the freaking game   Undertakker35  Out

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Gee... part of the fun is arguing the rules...

It is not like Butcher & I hate each other... just a disagreement on fighter bug exploitations and PPD counting....

We still play the game... and I know that I have fun.

Sheesh....