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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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What is Directdraw?
« on: February 24, 2005, 02:31:14 pm »
In the space of one day my NWN game would crash on load.  So the first thing i did was uninstall NWN and reinstall.

Nope.  Stil did it.

Next up I installed my windows from a system backup point. (WIN ME)

Still wouldn't work.

Then I went to the Bioware website and they told me to update all my drivers from their self help forum.  I used a commercial analyzer that told me my GForce driver was out of date.  I updated the drivers.

Still can't get it to work.

At that point i decided to run some other software on my system to see if anything elkse was acting funny.  SFC worked just fine.  MS office had no problems.  But then i tried to run a game called "Titlebout" and got a "directdraw" error.

What the?

Is this program tied into DirectX?

At this point I'm beginning to think I should reinstall WIn ME or...since i have WIN XP sitting in a box and my drivers are now updated...I migfht want to install a new op system.

Any thoughts?
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2005, 02:35:01 pm »
Direct Draw is indeed tied to DirectX. from what I understand , It's part of DX instruction set, that also works in Conjunjction with you Video cars Drivers.  Might want to check and make sure they are both up to date.

Stephen
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2005, 04:10:38 pm »
Quote from: Stephen on February 24, 2005, 02:35:01 pm
Direct Draw is indeed tied to DirectX. from what I understand , It's part of DX instruction set, that also works in Conjunjction with you Video cars Drivers.  Might want to check and make sure they are both up to date.

Stephen

Thanks SG...hmmm....could be my eight year old screwed things up.  She's off this week from school and playing "My Little pony" and "Barbie Software" on my system.  She think's she's pretty slick so I'm thinking that perhaps she tried to install one of these games and in the process no doubt installed or corrupted my latest version of Direct X as many of these older games offer to install DirexctX.  But all she knows how to do when installing a program is the word.."yes".  But I guess the WIN ME backup system doesn't fix this.

She denies installing but I do not think she would recognize the process. We found some old games in a shoebox a few days ago and I'll bet ya they are on the system now.   I better look around on my system for my DirectX instal program or...yuk...download it from MS. 

But now MS wants you to download another program that will first "verify" if your version of WIndows is real.  I have no reason to believe it is not (except perhps for the fact that this is a generic system I had put together in "Thai Board Heaven" on Clairmont Mesa Blvd  ...  errr .... I also have no reason to trust Microsoft.  What's to prevent them from saying my system is counterfeit and sueing me for 10K   ...  who but they could prove it true or false?  or worse sabtoging my system if their prgram really does determine it is counterfeit...ulp....
\
Hey I got the cd key and the hologram and all that but i'm paranoid...I'm the kind of guy that answers "no" to whether I trust Microsoft or not  when it pops up   ;D

scary.

(as a sidenote she was lecturing me the other night on her theory about computers...it was pretty hilarious...teach a kid to say "yes" to a popup window and all hell breaks loose)
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2005, 04:45:39 pm »
There is a program for diagnosing problems with directx.  Use the run option on the start menu to run the program dxdiag.exe.  It should help you at least find where the problem is.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2005, 05:11:01 pm »
exactly what Nemesis said. And No Problem Rondo. always happy to help.

Stephen
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 06:48:48 pm »
The only way to fix DirectX errors including Direct Draw is to reinstall DirectX from the Microsoft web site.. you will need to install DirectX 9.0c.. installing a DirectX version on top of DirectX 9.0c that is of a previous version will corrupt DirectX as stated by Microsoft.. if your 8 year old installed a game and installed the DirectX from the CD, chances are the DirectX version was pre- 9.0c thus corrupting DirectX.. to correct it, just reinstall DirectX 9.0c.
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2005, 09:30:02 pm »
Quote from: Pestalence on February 24, 2005, 06:48:48 pm
The only way to fix DirectX errors including Direct Draw is to reinstall DirectX from the Microsoft web site.. you will need to install DirectX 9.0c.. installing a DirectX version on top of DirectX 9.0c that is of a previous version will corrupt DirectX as stated by Microsoft.. if your 8 year old installed a game and installed the DirectX from the CD, chances are the DirectX version was pre- 9.0c thus corrupting DirectX.. to correct it, just reinstall DirectX 9.0c.


Darn you guys are good...

Direcdtdraw passed all tests but Direct3d failed all tests...

Should I uninstall DirectX or just install over it?


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Offline toasty0

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2005, 09:41:17 pm »
Quote from: Rondo_GE The Humble on February 24, 2005, 09:30:02 pm
Quote from: Pestalence on February 24, 2005, 06:48:48 pm
The only way to fix DirectX errors including Direct Draw is to reinstall DirectX from the Microsoft web site.. you will need to install DirectX 9.0c.. installing a DirectX version on top of DirectX 9.0c that is of a previous version will corrupt DirectX as stated by Microsoft.. if your 8 year old installed a game and installed the DirectX from the CD, chances are the DirectX version was pre- 9.0c thus corrupting DirectX.. to correct it, just reinstall DirectX 9.0c.


Darn you guys are good...

Direcdtdraw passed all tests but Direct3d failed all tests...

Should I uninstall DirectX or just install over it?




If you have XP try your OS disc first. It detect the curroption (usually) and fix the appro files. Give that a spin first Rondo to see if it fixes the prob.

Jerry
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2005, 11:29:51 pm »
Quote from: Rondo_GE The Humble on February 24, 2005, 09:30:02 pm
Quote from: Pestalence on February 24, 2005, 06:48:48 pm
The only way to fix DirectX errors including Direct Draw is to reinstall DirectX from the Microsoft web site.. you will need to install DirectX 9.0c.. installing a DirectX version on top of DirectX 9.0c that is of a previous version will corrupt DirectX as stated by Microsoft.. if your 8 year old installed a game and installed the DirectX from the CD, chances are the DirectX version was pre- 9.0c thus corrupting DirectX.. to correct it, just reinstall DirectX 9.0c.


Darn you guys are good...

Direcdtdraw passed all tests but Direct3d failed all tests...

Should I uninstall DirectX or just install over it?





Just reinstall DirectX 9.0c.. it will fix the errors.. also inform the users of your PC that if they install a program, that they are not to install DirectX on your system.. you should install it if, and only if, a newer version is released.. currently DirectX 9.0c is the latest version and no newer version is planned for release until Win Longhorn 64 bit is released late this year or early next year.


P.S. DirectX can not be uninstalled from a PC without messing somethig up in the Operating system really bad.. (DirectX Buster will corrupt several Windows files, especially on XP systems)..

The only way to fix DirectX is to reinstall the latest version on to your system, it will automatically overwrite the invalid files thus fixing DirectX components like Direct 3D, Direct Draw, Direct Sound, and many others.

hope that this helps.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2005, 11:39:46 pm »
Quote from: Rondo_GE The Humble on February 24, 2005, 04:10:38 pm

But now MS wants you to download another program that will first "verify" if your version of WIndows is real.  I have no reason to believe it is not (except perhps for the fact that this is a generic system I had put together in "Thai Board Heaven" on Clairmont Mesa Blvd  ...  errr .... I also have no reason to trust Microsoft.  What's to prevent them from saying my system is counterfeit and sueing me for 10K   ...  who but they could prove it true or false?  or worse sabtoging my system if their prgram really does determine it is counterfeit...ulp....

Microsoft components are about the only ones you can trust as far as the OS is concerned..

also the verificarion is to check your Windows activation code to make sure it isn't faked.. but if you look at the DL pages and read them carefully, it asks if you want to verify.. you can click no and then continue and you will still go to the DL page... however when your Windows was Activated originally, your Activation Code was sent to microsoft, so putting it back into their site makes no difference, they already have it, that is unless your OS is a cracked version or activated using an XP keygen.
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2005, 11:45:48 pm »
Whoa this thing just got challenging.,,

installed 9c but directx3d stiill flunks...rebooted and all...dunno...associated file problem?  My gforce board?  might need a new board but ...

Noticed in Dxdiag this error mesage I sorta glossed over

"The file nvdisp.drv is not digitally signed, which means that it has not been tested by Microsoft's Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL).  You may be able to get a WHQL logo'd driver from the hardware manufacturer."

Should I reinstall the nvidia gforce driver?

When I went to the manufacturer this is as far as I got...

http://www.nvidia.com/object/win9x_66.94

These driver sights confuse the hell out of me.

o boy sorry aboyut this...maybe I'm thinking the old "reinstall windows trick" might end up being what fixes it.
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Offline toasty0

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2005, 11:51:44 pm »
With all respect to Pesty, listen to uncle Toasty on this one. Try running your OS installation disk again.

digital signatures aren't important right now. You can worry about that later.

Jerry
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Offline toasty0

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2005, 12:01:17 am »



If the repair install doesn't fix your issue go back to the dxdiog and select the more help tab, then the directdraw button. That will walk you through some help files and such to figure out your problem and possible solutions.

Jerry
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2005, 12:27:09 am »
Quote from: toasty0 on February 25, 2005, 12:01:17 am



If the repair install doesn't fix your issue go back to the dxdiog and select the more help tab, then the directdraw button. That will walk you through some help files and such to figure out your problem and possible solutions.

Jerry



Well I see one issue from help I already Id'ed...

Unsigned drivers. Microsoft has not tested unsigned drivers for full compatibility with the latest version of DirectX. It is recommended that you use drivers that are digitally signed by Microsoft Windows Hardware Quality Labs (WHQL).

And now this one looked promising but I see my hardware acceleration is already set at full...

Lack of hardware acceleration. Some programs run very slowly or not at all unless Microsoft DirectDraw or Direct3D hardware acceleration is available. On the Display page, look under DirectX Features to see whether DirectDraw, Direct3D, or AGP Texture acceleration is marked "Not Available." If so, you might consider upgrading your hardware. Or if you are using a product in the Windows Server 2003 family, you may need to enable graphics acceleration. You can do this by opening Display in Control Panel, selecting the Settings tab, and then clicking Advanced. Select the Troubleshoot tab, and then move the Hardware Acceleration slider to Full.

But tabbing around into the display control panel I noticed a Gforce tab and drop down box called application profiles, global driver settings.  If you drop the list down you see a whole mess of games but NWN is not one of em.  (Diablo Icewind Dale and some weird thing called Alice are...)  Iwonder what that's all about.  I wonder if I should reinstall NWN again to see if it pickls up on the new gforce driver driver...



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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2005, 03:02:04 pm »
Some status on this...

I went to Nvidia and loaded their driver for my GFORCE board  (I had used another site that claimed the driver I used was the latest)...(although DirectX still says it is unsigned...so how reliable can thsat be I wonder...)

I did a virus scan (using stopsign) and cleaned out all the spyware and nabbed two viruses...(I need to look at the log and research what they were doing)

And pretty much am considering reloading WIN ME or upgrading to XPPRO (since i already have the system cd and key).  My son's system was all screwed up about 9 months ago and I spewnt gobs of time trying to figure it all out ...  after i cleaned the virus out I reloaded windows and he was back up and running...

I'll probably reload WIN ME (about 45 - 1 hour) and see if it's fixed then start preparing for the upgrade to XP.

Hopefully all will go well....





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Offline Nemesis

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2005, 05:54:26 pm »
For a driver to be signed by Microsoft the manufacturer of the driver must pay Microsoft to test and sign it.  Pay a very hefty sum.  As long as you got the driver from the hardware manufacturer  I wouldn't worry about it being signed.
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Offline toasty0

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2005, 09:43:06 pm »
Quote from: IKV Nemesis on February 25, 2005, 05:54:26 pm
For a driver to be signed by Microsoft the manufacturer of the driver must pay Microsoft to test and sign it.  Pay a very hefty sum.  As long as you got the driver from the hardware manufacturer  I wouldn't worry about it being signed.

Oh yeah, and just how much is that "very hefty" sum?

Honestly, I didn't it cost anything. I know to get the winlogo on your software (considered an endorsement form MS) you only need to pass their standards test which to the best of mny knowledge cost nada.

Jerry
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2005, 10:18:12 pm »
Quote from: toasty0 on February 25, 2005, 09:43:06 pm
Oh yeah, and just how much is that "very hefty" sum?

Honestly, I didn't it cost anything. I know to get the winlogo on your software (considered anf endorsement form MS) you only need to pass their standards test which to the best of mny knowledge cost nada.

Jerry


So you are sure that Microsoft does the testing and signatures out of the goodness of their hearts and charge nothing?  You think that even though it is free companies like nVidia and ATi just can't be bothered to get driver updates signed by Micirosoft?  I don't.  Microsoft likes money way too much to do so.

Here is a link to a site for a company that does pretesting to check and see if Microsoft would approve them.  This testing is not guaranteed to result in the Microsoft signing. 

Price quote:
Quote
How much does it cost?
“Designed for Windows” tests differ in price range based on product type and associated logo requirements. Generally a full test runs from about €600 up to €3000 per test.


Why would there be numerous companies ( I found a number and quit looking once one listed prices online) with a pay pretesting service if Microsofts service were free?  Why would anyone pay for the pretest that doesn't even guarantee that Microsofts testing will pass you unless the Microsoft test is expensive?

How many times does a company like nVidea or ATi upgrade drivers in the lifecycyle of a device?  How many times do you think that they want to pay Microsoft for the priviledge?  How many times do you think they want to wait for Microsofts blessing to issue a bugfix for a driver?

Sorry toasty but Microsoft does charge for this.  To get the Logo you also have to pass all the (paid) tests as well. 
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2005, 02:31:19 am »
Well....

I reloaded WINME and got my direct X draw to work again as well as Titlebout...

But not NWN...

So I uninstalled there last patch (also loaded last week) and reloaded (reversed) to 1.64 as i heard the 1.65 had some probs...

nope...

So...to ...well...three options left...

Get help from Bioware and cry (sniff sniff)

Go find my old original Gforce installation disk and reload the old driver...

or...

do the nasty...load (ulp) WIN XP...

Since this has now become an application specific type deal I'm gonna boohoo the Bioware folks.  Must admit this has been one freaky thing.

I need a vacation.  If I were a single guy I would run down to Tijuana and spend my weekend with a nice semi-plump seniorita...but...marriage makes my options slim...my wife works nights...

&^&^#$@%^%(()!


Heck I'd believe anything of Microsoft.   I must have passed my authenticity check; either that or they havent sued me yet. 

This is not a "young" board so I think the Nvidia people just didn't bother to send their last patch.  Of course i could alos shell out some bucls and buy a GForce III board...hmmmmm....

...or just quit playing NWNs....
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2005, 07:54:36 am »
You'll like Win Xp way more than Win ME.. no chashing or blue screens, easy system restores, more stable, better application memory management, etc..

Win ME was listed by everyone who has used Win 98SE and Win XP as the bastard child of Microsoft.

when you install Win XP, make sure to install the Network install of Service Pack 2, it is a 266 MB DL, the Windows update Service Pack 2 is only a partial package and causes 1 in 5 PC's to screw up.

the Service Pack 2 DL location you should use is :

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en

This should be the first update you should get for XP.. then go to Windows Updates web site and use Custom Install.. get any and all available updates.. you may have to go back 2 or 3 times to get all the updates since some updates require a restart... and some updates may not show up until other components are installed.

I would also recommend getting a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 mb vid memory.. they are an older card, by WAY better than Geforce 3.. Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 are only DirectX 8 cards, they can not render DirectX 9 code sets. Geforce FX series or the new Geforce FX 6800 series are designed for DirectX 9.

Doing a search for the Geforce FX 5200 card, the cheapest one I could find online is $54.00, however I think you can get them even cheaper on ebay.

ebay has the cards going from $ 4.99 and up and different versions of the cards.. some companies have the buy it now option which have a set purchase price.. some are listed at $45...

the FX cards are cheaper than what people think.. the newest standard for graphics is the Geforce 6800 Ultra. these cards make Geforce II, III and IV look like they were made back in the stone ages when it comes to playback of DVDs and games..

anyhow, just thought you should know.. a Geforce III or IV is not going to work with any new games coming out as many games require a minimum of a DirectX 9 video card, which would start with the Geforce FX card series.

hope that this helps.
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2005, 09:56:27 am »
Quote from: Pestalence on February 26, 2005, 07:54:36 am
You'll like Win Xp way more than Win ME.. no chashing or blue screens, easy system restores, more stable, better application memory management, etc..

Win ME was listed by everyone who has used Win 98SE and Win XP as the bastard child of Microsoft.

when you install Win XP, make sure to install the Network install of Service Pack 2, it is a 266 MB DL, the Windows update Service Pack 2 is only a partial package and causes 1 in 5 PC's to screw up.

the Service Pack 2 DL location you should use is :

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en

This should be the first update you should get for XP.. then go to Windows Updates web site and use Custom Install.. get any and all available updates.. you may have to go back 2 or 3 times to get all the updates since some updates require a restart... and some updates may not show up until other components are installed.

I would also recommend getting a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 mb vid memory.. they are an older card, by WAY better than Geforce 3.. Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 are only DirectX 8 cards, they can not render DirectX 9 code sets. Geforce FX series or the new Geforce FX 6800 series are designed for DirectX 9.

Doing a search for the Geforce FX 5200 card, the cheapest one I could find online is $54.00, however I think you can get them even cheaper on ebay.

ebay has the cards going from $ 4.99 and up and different versions of the cards.. some companies have the buy it now option which have a set purchase price.. some are listed at $45...

the FX cards are cheaper than what people think.. the newest standard for graphics is the Geforce 6800 Ultra. these cards make Geforce II, III and IV look like they were made back in the stone ages when it comes to playback of DVDs and games..

anyhow, just thought you should know.. a Geforce III or IV is not going to work with any new games coming out as many games require a minimum of a DirectX 9 video card, which would start with the Geforce FX card series.

hope that this helps.



mucho gracias
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Offline Redshift the Kook

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2005, 02:37:37 pm »
I agree with Pestalence. Win ME is awful, probably the worst MS operating system they made, (apart from Win 3.1). Win XP is much more optimised for modern gaming anyway. If you're thinking of upgrading to a GF 3 you must have a very old card, which card do you have? There are modern cards out there that are very good for gaming in terms of compatibility but are dirt cheap and although their performance tends be not great compared to the top of the line cards around it will still be better than the card you have right now.
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Offline Elvis

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2005, 07:37:05 pm »
http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/whql/policies/testing.mspx

That could be an interesting site for a couple people here. It seems that MS does indeed charge sometimes for driver certification, but I wouldn't call the fees "hefty". Payment for work done should be expected.

There is actually a good reason for NVidia not to have WHQL signed drivers for machines running 95,98, or ME and I'd bet a hundred dollars right now that it has something to do with those OSs not being supported any longer. There are a lot of drivers out there that aren't certified. The latest drivers for my Audigy 2ZS aren't certified. Got no idea why but my machine isn't adversly affected.   

Did you try removing all the old games that were installed?
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Offline toasty0

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2005, 10:21:10 pm »
Quote from: IKV Nemesis on February 25, 2005, 10:18:12 pm
Quote from: toasty0 on February 25, 2005, 09:43:06 pm
Oh yeah, and just how much is that "very hefty" sum?

Honestly, I didn't it cost anything. I know to get the winlogo on your software (considered anf endorsement form MS) you only need to pass their standards test which to the best of mny knowledge cost nada.

Jerry


So you are sure that Microsoft does the testing and signatures out of the goodness of their hearts and charge nothing?  You think that even though it is free companies like nVidia and ATi just can't be bothered to get driver updates signed by Micirosoft?  I don't.  Microsoft likes money way too much to do so.

Here is a link to a site for a company that does pretesting to check and see if Microsoft would approve them.  This testing is not guaranteed to result in the Microsoft signing. 

Price quote:
Quote
How much does it cost?
“Designed for Windows” tests differ in price range based on product type and associated logo requirements. Generally a full test runs from about €600 up to €3000 per test.


Why would there be numerous companies ( I found a number and quit looking once one listed prices online) with a pay pretesting service if Microsofts service were free?  Why would anyone pay for the pretest that doesn't even guarantee that Microsofts testing will pass you unless the Microsoft test is expensive?

How many times does a company like nVidea or ATi upgrade drivers in the lifecycyle of a device?  How many times do you think that they want to pay Microsoft for the priviledge?  How many times do you think they want to wait for Microsofts blessing to issue a bugfix for a driver?

Sorry toasty but Microsoft does charge for this.  To get the Logo you also have to pass all the (paid) tests as well. 


I didn't say they didn't. I said, "Honestly, I didn't it cost anything. I know to get the winlogo on your software (considered anf endorsement form MS) you only need to pass their standards test which to the best of mny knowledge cost nada.
".

Now about those HEFTY fees...what are they again?

Jerry
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2005, 12:50:30 pm »
I asked my uncle about this and his reply went something like this.

"He didn't use a NOCD exe or a crack and then try to either update or patch the game?  It sounds almost as if he did something to the program and then tried to do an update.  This sounds like a problem similar to what occurred with version pre 1.30 of NWN on some ATI and a few Nvidia machines where people did some modification of the NWN program (normally a NOCD or other item but it varied) and then it went back to the registry and other files in recurrence."

If his description fits what you did, part of it is security against hacking and other items, as well as just a general flaw.  You might want to make sure ALL signs of NWN are off your system if reinstalling (including the registry files), then update the drivers of your system, and then do a reinstall.  Not absolutely positive this will do everything, but it's similar to some bugs, very similar to the bug listed above, however, there were several other bugs that also did the same thing almost.  The one above I gather from my uncle was just more abundant in his experience.
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2005, 02:57:54 pm »
Quote from: Dash Jones on February 27, 2005, 12:50:30 pm
I asked my uncle about this and his reply went something like this.

"He didn't use a NOCD exe or a crack and then try to either update or patch the game?  It sounds almost as if he did something to the program and then tried to do an update.  This sounds like a problem similar to what occurred with version pre 1.30 of NWN on some ATI and a few Nvidia machines where people did some modification of the NWN program (normally a NOCD or other item but it varied) and then it went back to the registry and other files in recurrence."

If his description fits what you did, part of it is security against hacking and other items, as well as just a general flaw.  You might want to make sure ALL signs of NWN are off your system if reinstalling (including the registry files), then update the drivers of your system, and then do a reinstall.  Not absolutely positive this will do everything, but it's similar to some bugs, very similar to the bug listed above, however, there were several other bugs that also did the same thing almost.  The one above I gather from my uncle was just more abundant in his experience.

I loaded the CEP before i loaded the drivers...but I thought the CEP only added content to the game and did not screw with the game engine.

Thing is I loaded from an official site.

But I like you logic.  I think that has to get me an answer.   Are there any good registry cleaners out there that clear out fragmented and useless registry info?  Used to be...

The latest on this by the way became a comedy of errors... (or misfortune)...

I went out and got the GFORCE 5200 board (65$ off the shelve and boxed at PC CLub)...  a total mistake since after installation it caused a widows protection error (msmouse.vxd might be the culprit).  I almost think the problemn was a virus but I cleared the system a few days before any of this so I'm not sure.

Well after 20 hours of this I about had it.  You can start to develop post blue screen traumatic stress disorder if you can't fix a problem and it seems you keep digging yourself in deeper.   Brought my machine to my friendly "computer dude for a fee" place and told em to clear the error...install the board (if compatible and I suspect it isn’t with WINME) or if not keep the old GFORCE II and clear the prob... in the meantime I am raiding my summer vacation money and am gonna get me a new system with WIN XP...I'll bump that system up into my daughters room and let her load those  nasty little games til the cows come home.

I just think it's time to cut loose from WINME.  This OP SYS is causing all kinds of complications...installing the new board is a case in point.  I have upgraded video cards maybe 4 times in my life and never had a problem before this one.

You can get a generic system here in San Diego pretty cheap; you can get a midrange machine for about 450-550 and a barebones sahred video crap box for 189 dols new.   You can also get a muscle box for under 1000.00 dols unless you get the GFORCE 6800 which will cost ya.    I already got WINXP and all kinds of monitors.  Place is starting to look like a computer junk yard (I've owned over 30 boxes in my life).

I'm looking for a system capable of playing Morrowwind Oblivion and NWN2 when they come out next year so I don't want to by a bottom end system.  Need to get smart on the new and old (but good) generation of motherboards.    Asus seems to be quite popular around here.  Also there is a lot of talk about boards that can hold "PCI express" slots...any advantage to using this capability?

Woott!!!! What timing!!!

The dude just called me up.  What he said was that they had to remove all the drivers from the system (back to windows drivers) and reinstall the board.  So that got it up and runnin with the 5200 GFORCE....$55.00...sounds painless to me.

I think I'm gonna have my son's system switched over to WINXP this weekend...that's our second system in the house byut I see this problem coming up again...he is running DirectX 8.whatever under a GFORCE 4 MX ...his site.

Also I'm gonna watch how this system performs to determine whether I should migrate over to Xp on it and keep it or just buy a new system and bump it unconnected into my daughters room.  But I would sure like to use that vacation money...for my vacation.

If NWN dont run I'm just gonna take Dash's advice and do no more tweaks.  The way I see it  there have been tweaks enough on this system as is...
 

« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 03:25:33 pm by Rondo_GE The Humble »
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2005, 03:07:20 pm »
Quote from: Dash Jones on February 27, 2005, 12:50:30 pm
I asked my uncle about this and his reply went something like this.

"He didn't use a NOCD exe or a crack and then try to either update or patch the game?  It sounds almost as if he did something to the program and then tried to do an update.  This sounds like a problem similar to what occurred with version pre 1.30 of NWN on some ATI and a few Nvidia machines where people did some modification of the NWN program (normally a NOCD or other item but it varied) and then it went back to the registry and other files in recurrence."

If his description fits what you did, part of it is security against hacking and other items, as well as just a general flaw.  You might want to make sure ALL signs of NWN are off your system if reinstalling (including the registry files), then update the drivers of your system, and then do a reinstall.  Not absolutely positive this will do everything, but it's similar to some bugs, very similar to the bug listed above, however, there were several other bugs that also did the same thing almost.  The one above I gather from my uncle was just more abundant in his experience.

I did not try to crack the program but I did install the CEP...which is supposed to be an "official" upgrade to the game.

Hmmmm.....
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Offline Redshift the Kook

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2005, 02:41:20 pm »
Hey, it's cool you got your system up and running. To be frank I was worried that the card you bought might not be compatible with your motherboard - most modern graphics cards are AGP x8 and older motherboards can't handle them. Luckily that doesn't seem to be the case with you.  :)

If you're looking for a new system soon I would recomend an Abit motherboard, but then I'm a bit biased towards overclocking, something Abit's are very good for. But even if you're never brave enough to try overclocking, a board that can handle higher than normal clock speeds is obviously going to be pretty stable at stock levels so you might want to go for one.

PCI Express isn't quite as groundbreaking as it sounds. They are designed to replace both AGP slots and the old PCI slots so you'll get twice the bandwidth of an AGP x8 slot, (AGP x16 obviously :P). This means that your motherboard can send data to your PCIe card much faster.. The thing is, most graphics solutions, (maybe excepting on board graphics chipsets), have memory and graphics processors built together on the card so your graphics card shouldn't need to get fresh data from other parts of your system to display stuff on your monitor. PCIe is obviously good for decreasing the time it takes to load levels and I guess would be good for very high definition video playback, (I think that requires your main processor to decode stuff).

I could be wrong, I'm only a layman so if anyone knows about PCIe in more detail then correct me.  ;D
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Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 03:39:32 pm »
Quote from: Pestalence on February 26, 2005, 07:54:36 am
You'll like Win Xp way more than Win ME.. no chashing or blue screens, easy system restores, more stable, better application memory management, etc..

Win ME was listed by everyone who has used Win 98SE and Win XP as the bastard child of Microsoft.

when you install Win XP, make sure to install the Network install of Service Pack 2, it is a 266 MB DL, the Windows update Service Pack 2 is only a partial package and causes 1 in 5 PC's to screw up.

the Service Pack 2 DL location you should use is :

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=049C9DBE-3B8E-4F30-8245-9E368D3CDB5A&displaylang=en

This should be the first update you should get for XP.. then go to Windows Updates web site and use Custom Install.. get any and all available updates.. you may have to go back 2 or 3 times to get all the updates since some updates require a restart... and some updates may not show up until other components are installed.

I would also recommend getting a Geforce FX 5200 with 128 mb vid memory.. they are an older card, by WAY better than Geforce 3.. Geforce 3 and Geforce 4 are only DirectX 8 cards, they can not render DirectX 9 code sets. Geforce FX series or the new Geforce FX 6800 series are designed for DirectX 9.

Doing a search for the Geforce FX 5200 card, the cheapest one I could find online is $54.00, however I think you can get them even cheaper on ebay.

ebay has the cards going from $ 4.99 and up and different versions of the cards.. some companies have the buy it now option which have a set purchase price.. some are listed at $45...

the FX cards are cheaper than what people think.. the newest standard for graphics is the Geforce 6800 Ultra. these cards make Geforce II, III and IV look like they were made back in the stone ages when it comes to playback of DVDs and games..

anyhow, just thought you should know.. a Geforce III or IV is not going to work with any new games coming out as many games require a minimum of a DirectX 9 video card, which would start with the Geforce FX card series.

hope that this helps.



Everything is up and running esp NWNs!  Horray!!  What a journey...thanks everyyone. 

Wow!  This Geforce FX 5200 with 128 rocks...it's like playing a new game.   All these colors i didn't know were there.  man I gotta get one of thes for my son and upgrade his machine.

After my system came back fron the shop DirexdtX 7 was oniut. NWN load Direcxt X 8 and I have yet to load Direct X 9.

Dash's advice helped the most for NWNs...I did that program for two years without a hitch.   Maybe my kid mesed it up and maybe not siucne i had a ton of mods loaded on that thing from the Hall of Fame plus I loaded the CEP ...  a kind of sort of tested semni-official type mod that adds a whole lot of content, new heads, graphics, items etc to NWN.

Right now I'm patched to 1.65 but no CEP yet.  I'm leary about DX 9 but probably it will be ok to load it.  Then I'll load the CEP and ONLY any mods I plan to play in the future.

But even without DX 9 this board rocks!

Hmmm maybe I should reload Morrowind and see what how it looks...muhahahahaha.....
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 03:44:20 pm »
You should see how well the board rocks under DirectX 9.0c.. DirectX 9.0c incorporates advanced shadowing effects and better graphical rendering that previous DirectX versions do not have. Since the FX 5200 is designed for DirectX 9.0c, it should have no problem rendering the new components of Direct X.. now the only games to take advantage of DirectX 9.0c would have to be written under the Direct X 9.0c SDK, however you will see a marked improvement in frame rate and smoothness on older games...
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: What is Directdraw?
« Reply #30 on: March 03, 2005, 03:48:33 pm »
Just take your system to Windows Update and get all the updates available.. DirectX 9.0c should be one of the updates available.
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