Topic: Does any know the aprx. scale

[OlBuzzard]

between the SB shown in Trek 3 and this base ...
or between this base and a Sovy ?

Thanks in advance for the help

[CC22]

Well there have been a few versions of the Space Dock in ST3. Various Starbases used the spacedock model in TNG and are shown large enough to accomodate a Galaxy class through the docking port so a Sovereign would be a much easier fit. In ST3 the main doors barely left clearance for the Ent refit (Never mind the Excelsior that followed lol). I wouldn't worry about scaling really...
TNG wide enough doors for a Galaxy Saucer to pass comfortably, TMP access for an Excelsior.

[Captain Pierce]

Ex Astris says that SpaceDock in ST3 was 3.8km in diameter, and 5.5km high, based on the ILM size chart for the movie.  At this size, Bernd says, it would just barely be possible for a Galaxy-class ship to fit inside (as seen at least once in TNG), but only barely.

To make the SpaceDock model look as large in comparison to the Galaxy as it did in that ep, you would have to multiply those figures by 3.3 (since the Galaxy is 3.3 times as wide as the Consitution, again according to Ex Astris).

[OlBuzzard]

okie ..  that makes sense...

but I guess my question at this point .. the pict of the station shown is not the same SB as on ST3.   ..  If they sitting side by side ..  how big would this model be in comparrison.


In case you are wondering what I'm up to ..  I'm working on a special project for a major out post.  It i ssupposed to be an instalation that is larger in size to that of DS-9.  That is why I'm kicking around so many varriants and styles of "larger" SB's.  The placement of such an out post would only be in areas where it was needed due to its long distance from other out posts.

I hope this makes sense.

thanks for the help thus far guys !

[darkthunder]

Starbase 74, which was in TNG has the following measurements according to DITL:

Diameter : 8,781 m
Height (main) : 10,712 m
Height (overall) : 13,356 m
Decks : 2,765

Spacedock, which was used in Star Trek III has the following measurements:

Diameter : 3,810 m
Height (main) : 4,648 m
Height (overall) : 5,795 m
Decks : 1,200

[Darkseid]

Starship Spotter: SPACEDOCK

Length: 4600 m
Beam: 4600 m
Draft: 6900-6950 m (depending on comm-tower configurations)

A City in space, spacedock can support up to eight Galaxy Class vessels, and up to twenty-four smaller ships.  Initially designed for the smaller starships of the twenty-third century, two of the station's spacedoors were enlarged in the mid twenty-fourth century to accomodate the Galaxy Class Starships.

[OlBuzzard]

hmmm  its starting to sound more and more like I really do need to finish this project then ..  OY ..  I scrapped out the last one  ....

OK ..  thanks

looks like we go back to the drawing board.

[Captain Pierce]

That looks like Spacedock from ST3 to me...   ???

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans/mechanics/er-spacedock.jpg

Even at the original ST3 size, the diameter of Spacedock is more than 3 times that of DS9.  Not to mention now much taller it is, and the fact that it's a big solid mass rather than a bunch of spindly little bits, and you've got a station that you could probably almost park DS9 inside of.    As Bernd puts it--

Just for fun, the estimated volume of my "small" 3.8km wide station would be around 7km^3. If the average deck height is 6m, there would be 740 decks altogether, and this would yield a total area of roughly 1200km^2. If we take into account that most of the upper section is hollow, and that much of the lower section might be dedicated to tanks or other uninhabitable room, the useful volume and useful area would have to be reduced to about a fourth, but this would be still more than enough to sustain a crew of hundreds of thousands.

Not to try and tell you what to do, Ol'B, but sounds to me like the Spacedock-style station would be pretty good for "a major outpost." 

[OlBuzzard]

perhaps the over all size is large .. but the doors seem to be another issue.  If I'm not mistaken in ST-3  when they backed the Enterprise out of the SB ..  the proportion of the opening was barely big enough to accommodate the ship.  An as someone else has very pointed out the doors were later modified for the Galaxy.  IF there was an emergency the ships would have a difficult time getting out.

I'm really not on a rant  ..  so PLEASE dint take it that way ..  I'm just thinking out loud again.

BTW.. I love the job that Moonraker did ..  it is EXCELLENT !

Le me see what other kind of trouble I can get into ..  heck it's been two days and I haven't got into a good squabble with any one !

( never mind !  heheheheh !)

[Captain Pierce]

I don't think there's been a combined outpost/dock ever made where ships could get out in a hurry...    All the way back to Franz Joseph's StarFleet Headquarters, the dock parts of them have been a little too "secure"... 

Really, the best thing to do (in the "real" world) would be to have the "outpost" part separate from the "dock" parts...  Something like the "Orbital Office Building" and the drydock in TMP, except that there would be multiple drydocks...  they'd all be close enough to beam between, so it wouldn't even matter that they weren't physically connected...  of course, if you're looking for one in-game model, that would be kind of hard to do... 

[Darkseid]

[OlBuzzard]

yeah ..  you're probably right ..   but it's still fun to brain storm !

 

[OlBuzzard]

YUP !!  can you imagine trying to get 3 or 4 Sovys out the door in a hurry!

 

[Captain Pierce]

The funny thing, of course, is that if you look at the size of that door, Excelsior wouldn't ever be able to leave, because it wouldn't fit either... 

[OlBuzzard]

The funny thing, of course, is that if you look at the size of that door, Excelsior wouldn't ever be able to leave, because it wouldn't fit either... 

oh yeah !

 

[ModelsPlease]

This article is slightly off subject,but yet is quite pertinant. It discusses the scale of the Excelsior and also deals with the size of Starbases in relation as well as othe ships so it may help.......

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/excelsior-size.htm

[Centurus]

I have a question/observation.  It struck me when someone mentioned that the doors were modified so that larger ships could fit into spacedock, and then I looked at the starbase model, and noticed that MoonRaker placed more than one door on the base, although only one door is open.  Couldn't it be possible, and keep in mind that I am just asking a question and making an observation, that the starbase in ST3 could have had at least 2 entry points, and that both doors weren't necessarily the same size?  If, and I say if, this was the case, maybe the spacedoors that the Enterprise used to leave spacedock might have been another set of doors that probably were bigger, which could have allowed the Excelsior to exit the base?  Just a thought. 

This would also make sense with the fact that if ever a situation arrised, and all the ships either needed to be cleared out so they could get to a safe distance, or to be deployed to defend the base, that a starbase with 2 entrances/exits would be more plausable, since the ships could be launched faster?

Just a thought.

[Wicked Zombie]

All of the four main doors on the ST3 Spacedock were identical, and since the Enterprise flew in a straight line in and out of the station during it's docking run, it wouldn't have moved to a different door. Remember, both the Enterprise and the Excelsior were parked in front of the same door and there wasn't enough time or room for either to move to a different one.

Moonraker's base was always intended to be the ST3 version. The scale isn't 100% accurate, but there's only a slight difference if the door is any indication.





From those ST3 pics, the Excelsior would've had (barely) enough clearance to make it through. Viewed from the outside (they used a separate door model for the interior shots), the ship would still have the needed clearance as long as the doors were completely open and the helmsman had a steady hand.

The idea that the TNG spacedock's doors were simply enlarged doesn't hold up as the rest of the station was identical and in proportion to them. Also, if the doors were simply larger and the rest of the station unchanged, you wouldn't have as much room inside for ships like the Galaxy to dock. At the very least, things would get cramped and I doubt Spacedock Control would be happy with a traffic jam in their station during a crisis...

That would mean the entire station would've been a bigger, though closely similar, version of the ST3 spacedock. Considering the vastly different scales of Klingon Birds of Prey and the reuses of the Regula One design, the spacedock being bigger isn't that far of a stretch. In fact, the station has a more simplified design compared to the Regula type so building a bigger version is still feasible

[OlBuzzard]

Diahak .. both you and WZ are headed in the direction I had hoped this would go.  I'm thinking that a  larger base for deep space outpost (AKA a space city-station) ..  should if anything has at LEAST4 or perhaps as many as 6 or 8 doors ..  (varring is size and shape of course.).  The reasoning is simple ...  Not ever ship is a Sovy or Galaxy class ( regardless of what race they reperesent). Regardless of the shape of the station ..  IMHO a larger installation should be a bit more accommodating ..  that's all.