Topic: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game

[Commander La'ra]

Well how's this:  If I find out about a game that's been screwed over, I'll tell you.  If you find out one of my favorites might have been better, don't tell me.

[Dash Jones]

Which ending are you talking about...OH, that one, the one that if you skip half the game you get...yes, that one's really short and could be a BIG disappointment.

Oh, you didn't know there were some others...and they were MORE dependant upon what you did in the game?  You didn't realize that in some ways the ending of this one is stronger than the one of KotoR 1 (I tried it recently, was VERY disappointed with both endings of Kotor 1, especially after fighting Malak the "created ignoring rules" villain.

I had to fight  him hand to hand...no way to kill the eight Jedi...you know what a PAIN that was!!!

Anyways, I have to agree Kotor 2 isn't as good as the first one thus far as I've played it...but if one is basing it off the ending instead of the game...man...they're just whiners.  The game itself doesn't have the plot hooks that kept me going like the first one did (which again I only played and beat around a month ago).  I didn't expect it to be as good as the first one, however, I was getting bored within the first 2 hours...and that's a bad sign.

For me however, it's more about how the game plays and keeps my interest rather than some stupid ending.  Some of the best games I've played had endings that were about as long as it took to flash credits on screen.

But then again, I liked SFC 1, 2, OP, and 3.

[KnightAdvancer]

I had to fight  him hand to hand...no way to kill the eight Jedi..

A force attack power like Force Lightening should of done it. But I didn't bother. I let him use them all, to demonstare the feebleness of the Dark Side.

you know what a PAIN that was!!!

Know, I don't. Malak was difficult in the sense you couldn't breeze over him, had to use your head a little.

A *pain* was beating Mechcommander. A *pain* was beating anything on Legendary on Halo. A *pain* was beating the bosses on Ninja Gaiden.

Anyways, I have to agree Kotor 2 isn't as good as the first one thus far as I've played it...but if one is basing it off the ending instead of the game...man...they're just whiners.  The game itself doesn't have the plot hooks that kept me going like the first one did (which again I only played and beat around a month ago).  I didn't expect it to be as good as the first one, however, I was getting bored within the first 2 hours...and that's a bad sign.

For me however, it's more about how the game plays and keeps my interest rather than some stupid ending.  Some of the best games I've played had endings that were about as long as it took to flash credits on screen.

Few games mean anything to me without a story, and a ending can make or break a story. It good ending, with a nice revlation, can greatly increase your appreciation for story and events leading up to it. A bad ending can turn everything you enjoyed previously into ash.

But the ending is not was what ruined KOTOR 2 for me, but rather merely topped off a process that begin long before .The game is simply half-build, no other way around it.

[Ravok]

I'm not putting anybody down.

 but what did you expect after SFC 3 ?

 Its getting pretty obvious Craptovision could give a flying fart about their customers, if they can make a quick buck off a half compleat sorry arsed sequel.

  They have your money and thats all they give a darn about. Bottom line.

 After the stunt they pulled with SFC, I swore, and have not bought another of their games. And it looks like it allready saved me 50$

 Remember Scotty's old line? Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on you,

[Dash Jones]

Wow, after reading the endings that were put in, yep, I have to agree, they would have been deeper...AND SO NOT STARWARS THAT IT'S NOT FUNNY!

Man, the endings would have been good for a dark game, but for a light space opera...it isn't the grim PST ending.

I can't believe people are complaining about it.  I personally have enjoyed STDKotoR 2 thus far, and though I liked the story in #1 better, and that it was more direct in where and what you were too do, #2 still is the best RPG to come out in the past 6 months in my opinion.  Actually, probably the best one since KotoR the original.  Once again in my opinion.  That people are making such a big fuss about it currently kind of makes me rather sickened.  Perhaps it's because I wasn't disappointed with the ending (s) that were included...but then, the ending to #1 didn't impress me much anyways either...in fact, to tell the truth, that was more of a disappointment to me than the one for #2 Light side thus far.  In My Opinion of course.

However, #1 had a great storyline. In #2 however I grew to hate Kreia, and my favorite character has to be Atton.

[Grim]

I enjoyed KOTOR 2 also, except the crappy ending and clear rush job they made in the final stages of the game.

In comparison to KOTOR 1, KOTOR 1 was a better game but overall i feel KOTOR 2 is still a good and worthwhile RPG game to play.

[Sethan]

LucasArts' corporate philosophy of giving devs only 12 months to complete a product is exactly what led to this debacle.  It is those politics that ruined it.

It isn't just Lucasarts that does this.  It is actually pretty common, and is driven by economics.

There is only so much that people will pay for a game.  Multiply that amount by expected sales, and you get the gross sales numbers for the game.  Take away retail profit, distributor's profit, publisher's profit, printing and duplication costs, and that leaves the maximum amount of dollars available for development.  Divide the development dollars by the monthly development costs, and you get the maximum amount of time a game can be in development and still make a profit.

Publishing houses have all the numbers figured to a T - the only number they don't know is what the actual sales will be.  If the game is a hit, they make a big profit.  If the game is a dog, they might take a loss.  Otherwise, they make a small profit - unless development time goes too high - and then they take a loss even if the game is average.

When I worked for a game developer back in the early 1990s, salary expense was $50k/month, and non-salary overhead was another $50k/month. 

The longer development runs, the more copies of the game have to be sold to make back the investment.

[Iceman]

Ok, so KOTOR2 ending is the worst game ending I have ever seen, and I've played some pretty shady games.

[Dash Jones]

Apparantly you didn't play any of the SFC games...they showed me a little screen and that was it and the credits rolled...except for 3, that one had a movie.

[Iceman]

But you didn't expect SFC to have a spectacular ending.

[Dash Jones]

After seeing the ending to KotoR 1 I didn't expect one from #2 either, #1 was very unimpressive to me, heck the original Diablo had a better ending!

One thing that might bother me is that I chose to be a Guardian playing through, because they get a better BAB, HP, and other items in exchange for skill points and power.

However, I heard that ALL the jedi classes get the same BAB...which kind of makes it feel cheap for them to do...kind of makes the Guardian which I chose rather useless when all the Sentinel loses is 2 HP from the max (less then 1 HP on average), whilst gaining more skills and all.

[J. Carney]

Apparantly you didn't play any of the SFC games...they showed me a little screen and that was it and the credits rolled...except for 3, that one had a movie.

SFC was about GAMEPLAY! There wasn't supposed to be any cool cinematics, the enjoyment was in playing the game, not looking forward to a reward at the end.

RPG's are different. By the very nature of a protracted RPG, you do expect a little something in the way of a reward at the end of the bloody thing... ESPECIALLY on something like the old Final Fantasy games (I'll FINALLY have time to start FF9 this summer) which investing 150+ hours in was not unheard of.

I liked KotOR...  though I didn't like it enough to pay $49.99 for it when it came out. I bought it two weeks ago and played the devil out of it over the weekends (and snuck in a bit to break up the monotony of studying). I wasn't as impressed as I was by, say, NWN... but I found it enjoyable. It has almost made me want to see if there is a D20 Star Wars game running anywhere around here. I enjoined playing my Scoundrel/Jedi Counselor (and Force persuading the crap out of EVERYONE)

I'll wait it out on getting KotOR 2 the same way I waited on the first, and I'll buy it when the price gets right. By then, if there are fixes, they will be out; and if the game sucks, I'm not out a lot of cash that could have been thrown away on something more constructive... like trying to hook up.


Right now, though... I'm waiting on VtM:Bloodlines to come down into the reasonable range... on, and Pirates, too.

[Dash Jones]

Apparantly you didn't play any of the SFC games...they showed me a little screen and that was it and the credits rolled...except for 3, that one had a movie.

SFC was about GAMEPLAY! There wasn't supposed to be any cool cinematics, the enjoyment was in playing the game, not looking forward to a reward at the end.

That's why I play any game and determines what I think of it.  Story is a prime thing, but the ending...if the story is good, as long as it has some sort of something telling you you've gotten to the end, that's okay with me.  The gameplay is paramount, if the gameplay is good, whether or not it has story or not can even be negated.

Perhaps that's why I have my take on KotoR 2.  KotoR 1 had a sloppy short ending in my opinion compared to other RPGs such as the Final Fantasy series, or other such items.  It was like...I got to the end, and I was just like...that's it!?  I'd have preferred a scene with Bastilla and the main character going off and settling or something for Light Side males, or the DS character on a throne with brutal dicatation and an extended ending...but there was no such thing.  So KotoR 2 didn't surprise me one bit with it's ending, well there was one thing that surprised me with KotoR 2 but that's plot related and I won't say it currently.

However, the gameplay was good.  Not as good as KotoR 1 in my opinion, and there were multiple conversation bugs that I experienced.

However, overall, very good game.  It won out over the other game I got which was for the PS2 called Return to Arms when trying to decide which I'd play first...so that should say something...

However, my favorite games are always about gameplay, which is why games such as Empire Earth, SFC, and NWN have made it into my favorites lists of games...not because of their storylines (NWN stunk MUCH more than KotoR 2 with it's storyline, and it's end...but the gameplay...it's all about the gameplay and possibilities) but because of gameplay and what you can do in and out of the game.

[Bonk]

(Political comment withheld...) Not only games are affected by this. So very, very much more is... it is a crying shame.

[Laflin]

I finished the game in 2 days last week while outprocessing at Ft. Drum - the ending did seem a bit abrupt, almost as if it had been cut in order to set up another sequel.

[Iceman]

Hey! My Dad just got back from outprocessing this Saturday from Ft Drum. What unit were you with?

[Laflin]

Hey! My Dad just got back from outprocessing this Saturday from Ft Drum. What unit were you with?

I was in Mosul attached to the 133d Engineers out of Maine - thank god I'm back in New York where everyone speaks standard english .