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Topic: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game  (Read 6880 times)

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Offline Rat Boy

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Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« on: February 15, 2005, 11:42:17 pm »
An article at GameSpy outlines the problem, while a thread over at the Obsidian forums clearly spells everything out.  Haven't played it myself, but people have told me how the ending had a rushed, Quantum Leap finale-esque feel to it.  Now, the revelation that the devs had scripted out much more intricate and compelling end sequences that were quashed because either the publisher's deadline was looming or the devs didn't have the onions to fight LucasArts on this makes KOTOR 2 ten times worse than it actually is, bugs notwithstanding.

I knew this would happen.  People would naturally have over-inflated expectations over a sequel to what they considered to be one of the greatest RPGs of all time (I didn't; KOTOR 1 was RPG-light in my opinion), expectations that would be impossible to match.  Now I'm laughing over the fact at how much KOTOR 2 was botched; it's almost as FUBARed as Deus Ex: Invisible War or Vampire: Bloodlines.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2005, 05:51:28 am »
Lots a' people I know disagree with this assessment.

As far as the first one....well, if it was a lightweight, it managed to score an upset victory over every heavyweight except Fallout in my opinion.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2005, 08:57:36 am »
Too be honest, I really don't care much for the whole Star Wars Gaming scene.  The only reason, I am buying the Game is Because Ann of Taldren Fame, Her Husband worked on the Game. It will probably sit on a shelf, But I figure, If I can help them out in some small way, It's worth It to me.

Stephen
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2005, 10:45:54 am »
Quote from: Commander La'ra on February 16, 2005, 05:51:28 am
Lots a' people I know disagree with this assessment.


If they do, point them in the direction of that thread at Obsidian.  I've done the same thing to people who either liked it or were slightly ambivalent about it and now are disappointed and disgusted about the whole thing.  Both dev and publisher had a shot at creating one of the best endings (or several) in recent gaming history, but they threw it all away in favor of rushing the game out the door.
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Offline Iceman

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2005, 11:56:40 am »
The game does seem extremely rushed. I'm about 1/2 way through it, and my roomate just finished.  There are many more bugged stories and loopholes in this game than in the first one. I really hope you guys are over-reacting about the ending, but knowing you all I doubt it. I'll get back to you all when I finish.

Other than the occasional technical difficulty, I really love the game. Except I hte Kreia. With a passion. If I had the option to leave her on the nearest rock, I would.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2005, 12:31:19 pm »
Quote from: Stephen on February 16, 2005, 08:57:36 am
Too be honest, I really don't care much for the whole Star Wars Gaming scene.  The only reason, I am buying the Game is Because Ann of Taldren Fame, Her Husband worked on the Game. It will probably sit on a shelf, But I figure, If I can help them out in some small way, It's worth It to me.

Neither do I, honestly.  The last Star Wars game I really remember enjoying before KoTOR was TIE Fighter.

Rat Boy:  Generally, I don't try to encourage people to dislike or like a game based on the politics of the company that created it.  If I play it and enjoy it, I don't care.
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Offline Iceman

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2005, 12:35:00 pm »
TIE Fighter and X-Wing were great. X-Wing v TIE was also excellent, and X-Wing Alliance, while not as great as XvT was still awesome. I want a new one. Now.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2005, 01:10:15 pm »
Something about the last two games in that series didn't hit the right button with me.  But the first two...Gawd.  I wish there were more gaming experiences like the three-mission attack on the Star Destroyer Intrepid in X-Wing or when, about 2/3 of the way through TIE Fighter, your own wingmen try and kill you.
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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2005, 01:22:58 pm »
KOTOR 2 was shipped half-done, in my opinion. It can't hold a candle to KOTOR. Infact, it just degrades it's magnificence. It smothered the glowing light the first game but in me. Yes, it's that kind of game. 

I played it, and I beat it, and I wanted to cry. My advice: forget the second one ever existed. Pretend that there is only KOTOR.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2005, 02:09:24 pm by Tremok »
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2005, 02:24:17 pm »
Quote from: Commander La'ra on February 16, 2005, 12:31:19 pm
Rat Boy:  Generally, I don't try to encourage people to dislike or like a game based on the politics of the company that created it.


LucasArts' corporate philosophy of giving devs only 12 months to complete a product is exactly what led to this debacle.  It is those politics that ruined it.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2005, 02:38:20 pm »
Quote
LucasArts' corporate philosophy of giving devs only 12 months to complete a product is exactly what led to this debacle.  It is those politics that ruined it.

Which didn't stop the first KoTOR from being one of the better RPGs ever produced, apparently.  Why exactly are you this set against you've never played unless you have some kind of overall objection to Lucasarts' style?  I was essentially saying I have no such objections and will judge the game when I, myself, play it.
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"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2005, 02:42:28 pm »
Quote from: Commander La'ra on February 16, 2005, 02:38:20 pm
Why exactly are you this set against you've never played unless you have some kind of overall objection to Lucasarts' style?


I am dead set against this sort of style.  It's starting to become an epidemic in the industry, and given how enthusiastic people around here were about this particular game, I'd thought I'd call this behavior out here and now.  Some would say that this is eerily similar to how Activision ordered Taldren to handle SFC3.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2005, 02:44:59 pm »
Ah, all right.

But what about the people who've played it and enjoyed it?
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"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2005, 02:49:47 pm »
Again, show them what was cut because of the publisher.  Ask them what they now think of the ending.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2005, 03:06:16 pm »
Rat Boy, if they enjoyed the game, why in the hell would I want to screw that up for them?
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"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2005, 03:13:11 pm »
So you wouldn't tell them that there's an entire trove of deleted scenes and dialogue sitting in that game's directory that were cut because the publisher was dead set against any delays?  You'd rather they be ignorant and happy rather than fully informed in the likely event that there's a third sequel so that they could make a better-reasoned decision on whether or not they should purchase a game that'll likely be another cashing-in on the franchise, where quality takes a backseat to getting it to market?
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2005, 03:14:45 pm »
When it comes to the goal of entertaining oneself, I'd rather they be ignorant and happy, yes.

Why?  Because the entire purpose of playing a computer game is so that you cand spend a few hours being ignorant and happy. ;D
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"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2005, 03:22:53 pm »
I think, as a consumer and purchaser of a company's products, I deserve to know as much as I can about what's going on with a product.  I'd like to know if the overall quality of the final product was cast aside in the name of profit.  And I'm not just talking about the apparent hatchet-job done to the game's plot, I'm also talking about the rampant complaints of buggy code and other technical issues in the PC version.  While KOTOR 2 didn't interest me, Obsidian's next project, Neverwinter Nights 2, does interest me a great deal.  Now, thanks to this little disaster, I'll be waiting with less anticipation and more hesitation for NWN2.
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Offline Commander La'ra

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2005, 03:31:05 pm »
A cautious and well thought out attitude.  However, I feel it's rather...irritating to play a game, enjoy it immensely, and then have some jackass come along and start telling me why it wasn't as good as it could have been or why it sucked so bad when I, in fact, enjoyed it.  And further, I assume this is a common attitude, and don't go around trying to burst other people's 'happy bubble'.
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"Dialogue from a play, Hamlet to Horatio: 'There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.' Dialogue from a play written long before men took to the sky. There are more things in heaven and earth, and in the sky, than perhaps can be dreamt of. And somewhere in between heaven, the sky, the earth, lies the Twilight Zone."
                                                                 ---------Rod Serling, The Last Flight

Offline Rat Boy

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Re: Rat Boy owes people an "I told you so:" KOTOR 2 a botched game
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2005, 03:36:17 pm »
I, personally, find it more irritating that even though the game I played was enjoyable, it was essentially borked and could have been even better if not for a greedy publisher.  See SFC3.
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