Topic: GW6 Separate Thread

[Farfarer]

Sorry to hijack, but the other thread was all GW5.

Replace the Tholians with the ISC.  If they can be the "third" in a three way server, so be it.

Move primary  Lyran space to say, where the Wyn are. 

If you are trying keep some races minor, give them the equivalent of their "off map" areas at the appropriate map edge, say a few 100 DV hexes with a planet.

[Green]

Drop ALL races but the originally planned GW6 races.

[762_XC]

GW4 redux would be boring. Keep it all races but make the added ones bit players. The Feds should be the bulk of the Alliance economy, and the Klinks and Roms should be the bulk of the Coalition economy.

[KAT J'inn]

Geesh talk about your opposite ideas.

[Hexx]

GW4 redux would be boring. Keep it all races but make the added ones bit players. The Feds should be the bulk of the Alliance economy, and the Klinks and Roms should be the bulk of the Coalition economy.

Ya know .. this one's always bothered me.. well not always.. but since I started reading the SFB stuff

Feds- economic powerhouse, territory gets (kinda) devastated but they're OK can make a zillion ships
Klinks- Again econ gets kinda hurt, no major damage suffered, yet start to run out of ships
Kzin -Econ gets wasted- Empire practically burned to the ground, yet they manage to build fleets that eject
        Klinks and Lyrans from their space AND build an expeditionary Fleet for the Tholian defense and Operation Remus
Hydrans -Econ gets wasted, Empire in ashes blah blah, manage to have so much Econ in Lost Colonies they get back in the fight
                       and eject bad guys from their space
Lyrans - Start with a bigger Econ thean either Hydrans or Kzin, Econ suffers no major damge Yet they also seem to run out of ships
             get ejected from different areas and don't seem to have sent any expeditionary fleets anywhere

Is this perhaps the oddest idea of Economy?
I think I'm going to have to ask this on the SFB boards.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Ya know .. this one's always bothered me.. well not always.. but since I started reading the SFB stuff

A game or two of Federation and Empire will explain this to you.

The first thing to remember is that nearly half of ever races economy is in their captial hex.  (The Federation capital hex includes earth, Vulcan, Rigil, Andoria, and a few more.)  Thus a race can lose large stretches of space without their economy becoming totally crippled.

The second factor is off-map area.  The Feds are able to send ships directly off-map and look for more resources to exploit, whereas the Klingons (hemmed in on all sides) have a harder time doing this and must lease off-map space from the Lyrans.

The third and perhaps most important factor is economic exhaustion.  The longer a race operates on a wartime economy, the less they are able to squeeze out of their provinces.  The Klingons have been at war with the Kzinti and Hydrans for years before they invade the Federation.  They don't get the quick victory they hope for, and thus they hit economic exhaustion before the Feds.

The Hydrans do make enough ships to drive the Lyrans/ Klinks out of their space, but only after the Klinks/Lyrans have had their fleets decimated in the war with the Feds.

The Romulans enter the war years later than the Feds, but were operating basically on a wartime economy for six years before they enter the war.  This was because they had to build a whole new fleet (the hawks) and upgrade two outdated fleets (the kestrels and eagles) before they could launch their invasion.

The Gorn, of course, enter the war last, and have a perfectly healthy economy.  Since the Klinks and Roms don't quite force the Feds to sue for an early peace, this turns out to be a bad thing for the Roms.  Which escalates into a bad thing for the Klinks.  Which is a lucky break for the Kzinti and Hydrans..

-S'Cipio

The Feds are an economic powerhouse, no doubt. 

[Hexx]

Nah- as I meant to say (knew I forgot it) I know why the Feds are so powerful.
And I realize the Klinks had to face the brunt of the Fed powerhouse.

My point is the two other Western Allied Powers -Kzin and the Hydrans
Both had their Empires Overun, their capitals captured or devastated
Yet both manged to (seemingly) outproduce the Lyrans who suffered no (as of yet anyway)
published Invasion of their territory.
The Hydrans mananged to build a fleet in the Lost Colonies that overwhelmed (eventually) the Lyran and Klingon
firebases left in Hydran space.
And the Kzin seemingly managed to rebuild their shattered econ, replace their fleet, use that fleet to reconquer their territory AND send out a fairly large expeditionary fleet

The Lyrans got outbuilt by two empires, neither of which was equal to it (in F&E anyway ) in pre war economy, and both of which suffered majot damage in the war compared to the non existant ravaging of the Lyran Economy.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Such is the quality of a Kzin compared to a Lyran, when the going gets tough the Lyans take their sippy cups and go home.......

[Mog]

Nah- as I meant to say (knew I forgot it) I know why the Feds are so powerful.
And I realize the Klinks had to face the brunt of the Fed powerhouse.

My point is the two other Western Allied Powers -Kzin and the Hydrans
Both had their Empires Overun, their capitals captured or devastated
Yet both manged to (seemingly) outproduce the Lyrans who suffered no (as of yet anyway)
published Invasion of their territory.
The Hydrans mananged to build a fleet in the Lost Colonies that overwhelmed (eventually) the Lyran and Klingon
firebases left in Hydran space.
And the Kzin seemingly managed to rebuild their shattered econ, replace their fleet, use that fleet to reconquer their territory AND send out a fairly large expeditionary fleet

The Lyrans got outbuilt by two empires, neither of which was equal to it (in F&E anyway ) in pre war economy, and both of which suffered majot damage in the war compared to the non existant ravaging of the Lyran Economy.

It's called "the 'good guys' must win" regardless of logic and common sense plot device 

Either that or the Lyran ai is as inept against cheesy Hydran fighters, and Kzinti droners and fighters as it is in SFC

[Green]

My point is the two other Western Allied Powers -Kzin and the Hydrans
Both had their Empires Overun, their capitals captured or devastated
Yet both manged to (seemingly) outproduce the Lyrans who suffered no (as of yet anyway)
published Invasion of their territory.
The Hydrans mananged to build a fleet in the Lost Colonies that overwhelmed (eventually) the Lyran and Klingon
firebases left in Hydran space.
And the Kzin seemingly managed to rebuild their shattered econ, replace their fleet, use that fleet to reconquer their territory AND send out a fairly large expeditionary fleet

The Lyrans got outbuilt by two empires, neither of which was equal to it (in F&E anyway ) in pre war economy, and both of which suffered majot damage in the war compared to the non existant ravaging of the Lyran Economy.

Bacause the Lyrans are dumb.  Sorry.  Truth hurts sometimes. 

[762_XC]

*cough* Wussy Cat People *cough*

[Kroma BaSyl]

*cough* Wussy Cat People *cough*

You misspelled *fart*

[Farfarer]

Scipio's F+E summary is spot on.  Many games of F+E ( including one monster where we played out the entire war, but EVERY battle done tactically using the old paper SSDs, assigned your Pods, crews etc.) repeated this. The Klingons and Lyrans wiped the Hydrans and Kzin, and placed SBs on their Homeworld ( we had to limit it to one 1 SB, 1 BS and a brigade per planet).  The Hydro-Kzins usually came back late in the war ( but only if we stuck to the limits above) and retook their HWs.  The big battle line was the path to Earth ( as the Coalition prudently waited to attack the Feds until after Kzin-Hydros were done in) and the path to Romulus.