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Topic: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????  (Read 11416 times)

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Offline dbdbdb

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Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« on: February 12, 2005, 05:11:35 am »
I don't know about you guys, but I think with the communities continued involvement [Additional campaigns, ships, scripts..etc.] that this undying effort warrents the release of a newer version........i.e. SFC4. With the new technology available,[more processing power/cheap memory] they [Talgren] can finally take SFC4 to the next level.


So, is it a chance that it will happen?
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Offline Sochin

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2005, 05:51:36 am »
We all live in hope.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2005, 07:16:35 am »
Quote from: dbdbdb on February 12, 2005, 05:11:35 am
I don't know about you guys, but I think with the communities continued involvement [Additional campaigns, ships, scripts..etc.] that this undying effort warrents the release of a newer version........i.e. SFC4. With the new technology available,[more processing power/cheap memory] they [Talgren] can finally take SFC4 to the next level.


So, is it a chance that it will happen?

Not even remotely possible of happening...

Taldren closed down in May 2004.. Officially locked their doors and shut completely down.

The best that we can hope for is the source code for OP / EAW and having the fan community tweak the game.. No one can ever release a Starfleet Command 4 or a game that can simulate Starfleet Command as all Intellectual Property belongs to specific people and Taldren, as such it woule be illegal for anyone to attempt to release a game that will copy Starfleet Command...

Your best hope is if Kenneth Yeast will get the permissions from all parties involved to release the game engine source code and build enviroment (and possible tools if available) so that the community can attempt to adjust the SFC game engine to where they as individuals are happy or where the community will come together and create a MOD that the community can agree on as a new standard...

Until then, the best you can hope for is just Mods changing ship specifications and models.
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Offline Sochin

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2005, 08:00:51 am »
Just because Taldren isnt around doesnt make the possibility of SFC4 a lost cause.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2005, 09:06:46 am »
Quote from: F9thSochin on February 12, 2005, 08:00:51 am
Just because Taldren isnt around doesnt make the possibility of SFC4 a lost cause.

OK, so how would a company make SFC 4 when the Intellectual Property is copywritten and split between 35+ former Taldren employees who now work at other places...

There is no way a Starfleet Command 4 could ever posibly be developed unless the people from Taldren come back and create a new company..

the only way anything resembeling a SFC 4 would be fan created if and only if the source code is released, and even then, it would be a MOD of SFC OP and not a whole new game...

again there will be no SFC 4.
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Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2005, 11:33:13 am »
pssh, what's in a name?  I'd play it if the game experience is like SFC with everything we'd like to add to it, even if it's called something else.


But the copyright issues are still there, so be patient, they're working on it.
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Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2005, 11:55:51 am »
You know, last I heard was that ATVI had purchased the name rights from Interplay.  I never saw it posted anywhere that the rights to the name had gone to Taldren, unless you know something that wasn't publicly stated.   So, I would say that it is possible.  A company would just have to start from scratch with their own code, and get the rights to use the name.  I would think that things have advanced far enough (and truly SFC was never visually ground breaking in the slightest, imo) that you would want to use a new engine anyway, so that solves half the problem.   ATVI said that Iplay was very willing to sell them the rights to the name, which makes sense since they couldn't make Trek games anymore, now that ATVI is in the same place as Iplay was I would bet that they might be willing to make a quick buck off of something they can't really use, as well.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2005, 01:07:05 pm »
It's not just the name.. besides Activision only owns the title Starfleet Command III.. Taldren owns the name sake of Starfleet Command.. Activision purchased the permission from Interplay to create a game based on the source code that Interplay owns.. Taldren was hired to build the game which is basically a revision of the OP source code which is a revision of the EAW code which is a revision of the SFC original source code...

The name Starfleet Command left interplay with Erik Bethke when he formed Taldren.

Now as for using the source code, SFC original belongs to interplay's 14 East department, EAW and OP belongs to Taldren with licensing by Interplay... the SFC 3 source code belongs to Activision..

However the Source Code is also Intellectual Property of the employees of Taldren.. as such, unless Taldren releases the source code, no one can work on it.. as such, no more SFC games..

Now for anyone to make a game based on SFC would have to secure permission from Taldren, Taldren's former employees, 14 East division of Interplay, Activision, Quick Silver, Paramount/Viacom Studios, Interplay, and anyone else involved in the production of SFC just to cover the Intellectual property involved as well as the source code..

Currently, someone would have to create a whole new game that is at least 20% different in design, programming code, graphics, and playability in order to override the copywrites.. but then you would have a totally new game and it would no longer be SFC... and since the name SFC belongs to Taldren and they are closed, and the name is copywritten, then SFC can not be used for the game title..

so this leaves us with a whole new game under a whole new title.. that means there could never be another SFC and as such, the SFC franchise died with SFC 3 and Taldren's closing..

I'm sure that someone could build a game similar to SFC, but there would be major differences in the game to make it a totally different game all together...

Sorry to burst all of your bubbles, but unless Erik sells the SFC name and everyone releases the copywrites to the titles and Intellectual properties and Source Codes, no one can develope squat in relation to SFC's source Code or title for sale or even redistributed since it is illegal to alter the exe files and the q3 files currently (although Quicksilver is attempting to give a hand on how to edit the q3 file structure for Mods)...

Now if the Source Code is released, then people will be free to make an almost new game using the original source code, however it would be considered a MOD of the original game AND they would not be able to sell it as it would be Copywrite infringement... so that deters a lot from even attempting to develope a new SFC game because there is no profit in it...

Anyhow, just thought you should know.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2005, 01:15:12 pm »
Another question.. why are people giving me negative karma for telling the truth ????
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Offline Sochin

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2005, 01:16:20 pm »
Know all your doing is splitting hairs, what did Harry say about another title for the 40th Anniversary next year (and it ain't STO either). What you  are failing to take in to account is what if the game done under licence with permision from Taldren, are you saying that ain't going to happen. It looks like most of the balls required are in Taldrens court and they don't have a great deal of exposure in the market if any I would of thought they would jump at the chance to earn some cash.
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2005, 01:24:43 pm »
Taldren is CLOSED.. Out of Business.. No Accounts, nothing , Nada, nip, Nil, Zilch..

How can Taldren jump at any chances when they are gone and all the employees work for other companies? The titles are copywritten in Taldren's name, as such the copywright will last for 50 years before the name is available.. same goes for the Source Code....

now there has not been any word on Taldren Korea, and Erik has fallen off the face of the planet in Korea, and the Taldren Korea site is closed down..

as such, there is no getting hold of the owner of Taldren, unless you can track him in the Korean Game Programmers Guild or what ever it is called...

Anyhow, what Harry is talking about is in no relation to SFC... there are hundreds of Trek games available, several have never been published.. As such, Harry is talking about different companies that are in current existance... Taldren has been gone for almost a year now.. at least 8 months...
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2005, 01:49:37 pm »
hmmm

Pestalance....  if I did not know better ..  I'd say you were afraid that another SFC game would be produced.

As for SFC-3 ...  there is no confirmed patch ..   and there is a roomer that the next attempt at a patch for SFC-3 will severely "gut" at least one race that we know of.  ( Making it less desireable to play )

I strongly support the release of a new game   ..... and would gladly support the development of one to that end. 

To date Nanners GAW has the best interpretation of the SFC-3 release ... but there are things that still need to be done ( as far as a new game is concerned  ...  ie: 3-D flare )

At any rate ...  not to get off on tangent ...  But I do agree that there is support in the right places that would be a positive move for the SFC community.

thanks
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Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2005, 02:03:23 pm »
That just doesn't mesh with some of the stuff I read.   Taldren, as far as I ever heard, never owned the name "Starfleet Command", and why would they?  They were hired to make the games, by the owner of the name, Interplay, and after that ATVI (after they aquired the name from Iplay, and Taldren acquired the rights to some of the code with Iplay held during the making of the previous games.  This was all said by Erik Bethke after they announced SFCIII).

As far as Taldren Korea, there is a reason that it isn't there anymore.  Erik said that Taldren Korea was a seperate entity, and in fact would not be named Taldren Korea as he was trying to come up with a new name for the company.  The reason he went with Taldren Korea at the time because he was thinking that they could work as seperate cells, each working on different projects, but if the need arose, they could assist eachother, sort of like sister companies or something.  Since Taldren US dropped before the other one really got underway, and there was talk of what responsabilities a Taldren Korea might have to the other company of the same name, the discussion finally lead to Erik saying he was going to change the name.

I kind of agree with Buzzard here, everytime something like this comes up it's met with some pretty intense antagonism on the part of Pestalence and a few others (maybe he's just playing the part of his name or something, I don't know).  At the very least it doesn't hurt to dream, and according to the facts that I've been privy too, it's always a possability.
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Offline dbdbdb

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2005, 02:35:12 pm »
Interesting comments thus far.

Talgren's role if any in future developments is purely dependant on the contract signed with the actual owner of the SFC series. Whomever that may be i.e. Interplay\Activision. And if that contract included future developments of the title, then the owner of Talgren would have the rights to execute that option, providing they feel its worth the investment. Its all legal mombojumbo, everybody wants a piece of the pie for the life of the product. If they [The owners of the SFC series title don't feel it is worth the investment ... then its a no go] and talgren can't operate outside of that and produce another title on its own.

Sadly, this may include any similar titles which could be based on the Startrek concept. :-[

Be that as it may, SFC desearves another release, the fan-base is there, the fan commitment is there and the opportunity for growth is there. And I would like to see it upgraded to the next level, utilizing today's technology.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2005, 02:54:51 pm »
Hi Ya "EE" ...

man ....  it's been a while.  Good to see ya bud.  Seems like the last time we met you were plucking Ol Buzzards tail feathers on an OP Server !!!


 :brickwall:

hehehe ...  that's cool

Let's look beyond Taldren ... and simply look at the possibilities"

1.  There are a LOT of unanswered questions :  a lot of legal stuff too that NONE of have ALL of the answerers to.

2.  Does this mean we should throw in the towel as a result of the "unknown".  IMHO ...  if anything until someone who is a genuine legal representative for ALL parties concerned tells us there is now way on the face of this planet it can happen ..  then I say let's do it !!

3.  The opposition :  Not always ..  but frequently from groups or facets within our own community that attempts to over see the development of any SFC game as to staying with in the "guidelines" of how they already interpret SFC as to wheather or not this ( or any other release of SFC) ...  meets their standards.

IMHO ...  this last group or part of the formula is the most dangerous of all.  We must be careful that we don't kill anything else that may be considered by other developers ..  other wise we will see a repeat of "Enterprise" ... and a quick death as a result.

We MUST look forward to new possibilities ...

just my 2 cents worth.

thanks
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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2005, 03:58:23 pm »
Well, I suppose next time they can forgo SFC, and instead just go right to the heart, make a deal with another company which was involved somewhat in SFC, and instead call it...

SFB.

Except this one would be for the computer.
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Offline KBF-Crim

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2005, 04:34:28 pm »
SFC4 as you  guys envision it is highly unlikely of ever being done...

There are too many licensing issues at this pointin time for any thing like that to get a green light from all parties involved...

It's not a matter of we couldnt figure out how to upgrade the game ...it's a matter of no one having clear licensing to produce and distribute such a game...

If Paramount isnt on board....forget about it being Trek....

If Steve Cole aint on board....forget it being SFB based....and if it isnt SFB based ...it isnt SFC in my book....SFC light maybe...

You then either need an entirely NEW game engine...or you need to get past parties on board also...like Quicksilver...

So yeah...honestly....if we had a few million and change....we could probably buy licenses and have the community self produce SFC4 legally....

Is SFC4 impossible?....no...

Is SFC4 possible ?...not bloodly likely...

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Offline EmeraldEdge

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2005, 05:24:17 pm »
Here's what I see.  Produce a SFC like game without Trek ships but make it moddable.  90 percent of the problems are solved. ;)

Seriously though, there is a lot of talk about other games with mods for Trek ships.  There is some talk about Nexus, but it just doesn't fulfill the "I'm in control of my ship" thing that SFC does.   I could see, though, that if a game came along that didn't feature Trek ships, but had a complex game system, with diverse weapons and ship systems, that was moddable and had a Dynaverse like setting, it could replace SFC in my heart.  I don't need it to be SFB based, but it's got to have that kind of depth.  If someone was to just make the core game, with whatever ships they wanted, we'll do the Trek mod for it I'm sure.  Let's face it, a lot of the mods replace most of the stock models anyway.

So, as far as I'm concerned, which developer is up for making an in depth tactical starship simulator with online universe?
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2005, 05:28:38 pm »
Quote from: KBF-Crim on February 12, 2005, 04:34:28 pm
SFC4 as you  guys envision it is highly unlikely of ever being done...

There are too many licensing issues at this pointin time for any thing like that to get a green light from all parties involved...

It's not a matter of we couldnt figure out how to upgrade the game ...it's a matter of no one having clear licensing to produce and distribute such a game...

If Paramount isnt on board....forget about it being Trek....

If Steve Cole aint on board....forget it being SFB based....and if it isnt SFB based ...it isnt SFC in my book....SFC light maybe...

You then either need an entirely NEW game engine...or you need to get past parties on board also...like Quicksilver...

So yeah...honestly....if we had a few million and change....we could probably buy licenses and have the community self produce SFC4 legally....

Is SFC4 impossible?....no...

Is SFC4 possible ?...not bloodly likely...




This SFB stuff is EXACTLY what we must avoid.  Sorry guys .. you can flame my butt if you want to..   but every time we get into this it becomes an argument ..  and a game that is simply not worth it.

It is good to have some elements of the game there  ( as Taldren first envisioned it ...  )  but if you are going back to those old arguments .... and getting all of you buds on here to tell me just how wrong I am ..  do what ever you will ..

but SFB has killed one community ...  and the oppsite extreme another.  I had hope we had learned something by now ...

looks like I was wrong.

This sort of dogmatism is exactly what has killed Trek in general.  Believe me, I have been with Trek since the beginning ...  and SFB as well.  I think I know what I'm talking about.

The likely hood of those who are in controll of OP actually listening to me )or anyone else for that matter) is virtually non existant.  WE have seen all the flame wars over this matter that I care to.  If SFB is what you want ..  then continue to develop OP .. and work with what ever you need to in order to have SFB.  But STOP trying to cram it down the throats of the rest of us.  We dont want it any more.

Oh ..  I'm almost certain that in the eyes of many of you ( but thank God the majority who purchased the game disagree) ..  that if it is not SFB ..  then it is not a true Trek game.  NO ! You are wrong.

This superficial ideaism of asserting SFB over Trek is one of the things that has KILLED the entire series.

Well ..  I guess I'm done ..  probably in more ways than one.

How small this community has gotten.

this hurts me to even to have to type this out.

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Offline Age

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Re: Starfleetcommand 4: Posssible ?????
« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2005, 05:38:32 pm »
Quote from: Pestalence on February 12, 2005, 01:15:12 pm
Another question.. why are people giving me negative karma for telling the truth ????
It happens welcome to my world when I talk the truth.I know one thing I ain't gonna get the game that I kept bugging Ann about by e-mail and pm.I do have few Ideas though for another game similar but not exactly in title but there won't be no SFBs as Viacom won't allow it.
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