Topic: An Open Apology to J'inn & the Coalition...

[FA Frey XC]

agree w/Chuut here.

I swear all these rules were put in place to limit what people like to call "Cheese".  OOB, CnC, etc.....

Now you have to spend hours going over rules (instead of playing)......what ship can I buy?  What fighters can I use?  What hex can I go into?  All in the name of balance.. ROFL.

We're no more balanced then we were before all this and now we're stuffed full of rules and MORE CHEESE.

 

[Kroma BaSyl]

agree w/Chuut here.

I swear all these rules were put in place to limit what people like to call "Cheese".  OOB, CnC, etc.....

Now you have to spend hours going over rules (instead of playing)......what ship can I buy?  What fighters can I use?  What hex can I go into?  All in the name of balance.. ROFL.

We're no more balanced then we were before all this and now we're stuffed full of rules and MORE CHEESE.

Sorry, but using SGO4 as the standard for OOB and general rules complexity is a bad example. For the record it isn't in the name of balance, it is in the name of a more "realistic" simulation of warfare and truer implementation of SFBish game play, while attempting to maintain balance. Everyone flying around in DNs or BBs or X-ships can be balanced, just not fun for many.

[Grim]

agree w/Chuut here.

I swear all these rules were put in place to limit what people like to call "Cheese".  OOB, CnC, etc.....

Now you have to spend hours going over rules (instead of playing)......what ship can I buy?  What fighters can I use?  What hex can I go into?  All in the name of balance.. ROFL.

We're no more balanced then we were before all this and now we're stuffed full of rules and MORE CHEESE.

 

Yep Good Post Jeff.

[KBF-Crim]

Good point Jeff...and that's something we've been talking about for years...

First....we accept that SFB is a simulation of fantasy ship combat, depicted in a TV show...

Second... that SFC is a simulation of SFB, which itself is a simluation as noted above.....

Therefore the game we are playing is actually two steps removed from the combat we seek to simulate...the combat we saw on TV and wish to recreate and experience...

Third....as most people know who gain any knowledge of SFB.....SFB is Federation centric....basicly the whole system revolves around the Federation....

Which is only natural considering that what SFB simulates is what was seen on TV...The show itself is Federation based ...."These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise" etc...

So everyone wanted to be captian Kirk...and fly the enterprise into battle...I did too....Kirk is still my favorite captian and I still note sublte charactor triats I missed before on this 40 some year old cheesy TV show....(even though I have seen most episodes multiple times....I still find something forgotten or missed....like a treasure hunt..)

These battles require enemies to battle against.....so the other empires are fleshed in....the Klinks, Rommies and Gorns are roughly based on wnat was shown or infered on TOS...etc...

Fourth...knowing SFB to be Fed centric , and understanding why, we except it and move on into gamming...

The next hurdle is balance.....a game is no fun if you never have a chance of winning....but balance must be defined and codified....Balance can be "equality"..... but equality is stale and boring with little room for Tactical variations in game play...

Equality isnt just flying tourney ships...equality is removing the racial variations entirely and just flying the same exact ship...

If everyone has the same exact units, there is little of the wargame flavor we sought in the first place...

It's better if we view balance as "parity" rather than equality....balance through Parity leaves room for what is called racial flavor amongst the various empires...it provides for more variations and combinations for more interesting game play...

But balance through parity has it's own risks ....these types of balance tweaks have resulted in technolgy bumps and rules changes/addemdums etc..for variious races....often resulting in short lived 'sweet spots' in production where certain races ships are superiour to others, until those same bumps and rules changes tip the scale back the other way for another short time...

It's only natural in such a system that the most populated player races would simply submit for stuff (ships , varients, rules changes)..more people play these races...so more ideas are submitted for consideration...complelety logical...

SFB itself is still unblanced....and it is still being tweaked to this very day...and it has been ongoing for over 20 years...but it is a cycle of mostly parity....

But in the end.....travel down the road to "better"...allways leads to "uber"...

Thing gots SO uber...they had to create a new tough ass race just to have something to battle against...the cycle goes on...

Now we have SFC.....based on an inherantly unbalanced system....and we've only have 5 years to play with it...

On top of that...some stuff was lost in translation...and some of the stuff lost where balance tweaks for all the races...

And we are trying to use this game to play F&E style campaigns when the DV simply cant simulate many of the required backround functions necessary for wargaming play...

I personally want it all ...carriers and tenders for all....commando ships...escorts....BB's and dreads....

But I want it all to make sence...and I want it to flow as a system of parity rather than equality...

and remember....

"One man's cheese is another man's only hope for survival"

[IAF Lyrkiller]

Good point Jeff...and that's something we've been talking about for years...

First....we accept that SFB is a simulation of fantasy ship combat, depicted in a TV show...

Second... that SFC is a simulation of SFB, which itself is a simluation as noted above.....

Therefore the game we are playing is actually two steps removed from the combat we seek to simulate...the combat we saw on TV and wish to recreate and experience...

Third....as most people know who gain any knowledge of SFB.....SFB is Federation centric....basicly the whole system revolves around the Federation....

Which is only natural considering that what SFB simulates is what was seen on TV...The show itself is Federation based ...."These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise" etc...

So everyone wanted to be captian Kirk...and fly the enterprise into battle...I did too....Kirk is still my favorite captian and I still note sublte charactor triats I missed before on this 40 some year old cheesy TV show....(even though I have seen most episodes multiple times....I still find something forgotten or missed....like a treasure hunt..)

These battles require enemies to battle against.....so the other empires are fleshed in....the Klinks, Rommies and Gorns are roughly based on wnat was shown or infered on TOS...etc...

Fourth...knowing SFB to be Fed centric , and understanding why, we except it and move on into gamming...

The next hurdle is balance.....a game is no fun if you never have a chance of winning....but balance must be defined and codified....Balance can be "equality"..... but equality is stale and boring with little room for Tactical variations in game play...

Equality isnt just flying tourney ships...equality is removing the racial variations entirely and just flying the same exact ship...

If everyone has the same exact units, there is little of the wargame flavor we sought in the first place...

It's better if we view balance as "parity" rather than equality....balance through Parity leaves room for what is called racial flavor amongst the various empires...it provides for more variations and combinations for more interesting game play...

But balance through parity has it's own risks ....these types of balance tweaks have resulted in technolgy bumps and rules changes/addemdums etc..for variious races....often resulting in short lived 'sweet spots' in production where certain races ships are superiour to others, until those same bumps and rules changes tip the scale back the other way for another short time...

It's only natural in such a system that the most populated player races would simply submit for stuff (ships , varients, rules changes)..more people play these races...so more ideas are submitted for consideration...complelety logical...

SFB itself is still unblanced....and it is still being tweaked to this very day...and it has been ongoing for over 20 years...but it is a cycle of mostly parity....

But in the end.....travel down the road to "better"...allways leads to "uber"...

Thing gots SO uber...they had to create a new tough ass race just to have something to battle against...the cycle goes on...

Now we have SFC.....based on an inherantly unbalanced system....and we've only have 5 years to play with it...

On top of that...some stuff was lost in translation...and some of the stuff lost where balance tweaks for all the races...

And we are trying to use this game to play F&E style campaigns when the DV simply cant simulate many of the required backround functions necessary for wargaming play...

I personally want it all [/i]...carriers and tenders for all....commando ships...escorts....BB's and dreads....

But I want it all to make sence...and I want it to flow as a system of parity rather than equality...

and remember....

"One man's cheese is another man's only hope for survival"