Topic: Server PVP based VC proposal

[Hexx]

OK this was mentioned in another thread, but since they tend to get buried...

Problem with PVP based VC's is
-They reward Big ships,
-They punish new players or those not as proficeint at PVP by
a) Giving up VP for dying
b) tending to keep them put of ships that give up more VPs.
- Servers will likely continue to see Dreads pressing only when they have no doubt
as to the outcome of a match

So
-PVP VC's are based on the Player, more than the ship.
Players are worth 1VP for every player they've managed to kill on the server
Until they've made a kill, players are therefore worthless...
Once a player has been killed, his counter "resets" to zero.
A player may not claim any PVP VC's for his side if he's piloting a DN, unless the opposing
player is also in a DN class ship.
A player in a DN that kills a player in a non-DN ship does reset said players points to zero.

EX
J'inn has managed to kill 4 players on GW7 without being killed himself.
DH (still claiming he only flies heavy metal because he has to) jumps him in a DNH.
DH kills J'inn.
J'inn is now worth zero VP (until he makes another kill) but the Feds gain no VP's as DH made the kill in a DN.

Thoughts?
Ideas?

Huge problems I'm missing?

[FPF-DieHard]

Come on Hexx, I bagged 20 Romulan CA's in 3 days while in an F-CB on GW4. 

Drink your milk and one day you can grow up to be like me

Your proposed system is a great idea but it is too complicated, simply only put VCs on the Heavy metal.

Rewards VCs for forcing Big Iron off the map when the number of ships are equal.   This will FORCE more decisive engagments.

[Hexx]

Actually the points tally would (imho) be easier than Dizzy's system
as you'd simply have to count the number of kills a player had until they were killed
Kougar's kinda doing it in his own kill reports for SGO.

Also I'd like to do it to discourage the building of DNs
You would still build a few, as disengagement rules would apply,
but you would likely keep your best PVP players in BCHs.
And while a good PVP player is practically untouchable in a DNH,
two good players can bring a BCH down with CCH's (which have always been unrestricted)

Also would give newbies a chance to fly the heavy metal.
(god knows why they'd want to, but some seem enamoured of it)


While I'd also like to punish disengagement like you suggest, I think it would be to hard to balance
When do you count the number of ships? At the mission start/ What if someone crashes out.
Does a DNH and a FF count as equal against a DNH and a BCH
What about a C8k and a ff against 2 BCHT's or CCX's?

[FPF-DieHard]

While I'd also like to punish disengagement like you suggest, I think it would be to hard to balance
When do you count the number of ships? At the mission start/ What if someone crashes out.
Does a DNH and a FF count as equal against a DNH and a BCH
What about a C8k and a ff against 2 BCHT's or CCX's?

These are details that we need to hammer out.   Bottom line is the system cannot be TOO complicated. 

On SS2, we simply used the # of ships are the factor.   It was easy to undestand and while you had some BS VCs rewarded for it, it wasn't that bad.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Well, why not take it to the next level?   If you disengage from a larger foe or more superior numbers of equal or higher class ships, you lose half VC.   However, if you are in heavy metal or a same size/larger ship and run, you STILL lose the VP.
   Example:  Heavy Cruiser runs from a Light Cruiser.  Light Cruiser still gets 2 VC. 
   Light Cruiser runs from a Heavy Cruiser.  Only get one VC, or half.
   If YOU are the one that initiates the engagement, and the other player(s) are drafted, standard rules apply.  But if you get drafted by a larger ship, you can still run, but it costs you.
   Rather than an ever climbing number of VC, treat it like a bank.  Each side only starts with x-number.   If you win, you get more from the opponents time.  If you lose, your side pays the piper.
   Some pilots are worth more than others.  Kills raise values, same as previously stated.

[Kougar_XC]

Also I'd like to do it to discourage the building of DNs
You would still build a few, as disengagement rules would apply,
but you would likely keep your best PVP players in BCHs.
And while a good PVP player is practically untouchable in a DNH,
two good players can bring a BCH down with CCH's (which have always been unrestricted)

I am all for what Hexx has said here. I am also for any system that would encourage people to stay and fight, instead of constantly running.

I also like all the ideas mentioned in the first post, and even that last one as it would actually give a smart player that is using a DN pause, before they decide to go blowing up someone worth quite a few VCs that's not in a DN   

Changing things so that losing your ship doesn't cost your side VC points is one thing I'd like, the idea was good on the drawing board but not in practice as I've had half the server's playerbase run from me at one time or another (many of those three times or more), and admittedly I've run from DH and Kroma or DH and Bear plenty of times to avoid a nasty gangbang... I'd enjoy not having to worry about PP or VCs, and just being able to take em on in a non dread... lose nothing for trying, but might gain something if I archive the perceived impossible...

I currently do not see the disengagement rules working without problems unless it's something real simple, such as a frig running off a heavy, or a CL running off a DN, or a heavy running off a BB. Assumed 1v1 player matches, not sure about how AI would factor into that either, as the AI drawing with the current server missions has been a bit OTT in several PvP missions...

Just my two cents, I play for the PvP, not the constant AI killing nor the chasing people to the borders...

Edited: The forums blanked out half of my post??

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

One other thing I'd  like to bring up:  There are NOT any military units in existence that builds nothing but a large supply of capital ships, and, if a captain lost one, that captain would have to start at the bottom and earn the priveledge of flying those again.  When it seems that you are constantly flying into battles with superior firepower.
   Most fleets consist of mostly frigates, cruisers and destroyers, not battleships and carriers.

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Here is a question for our programmers.  Is it possible to set it up where the AI disengages when a PvP takes place? 
   Second question:  Is it possible to disengage the borders in a PvP on the drafting party?
   It would make it a different challenge altogether.

[Kougar_XC]

There have been missions designed where AI is programmed to not show up in PvP matches, not sure why that vanished as it's better then some of the current mission setups that give a player AI help when they are flying a dreadnaught, and leave the other guy whose in a small cruiser with none...