Topic: OOB and SFC

[FPF-DieHard]

Hence my proposal:

Instead of BPs being allocated to ships, allocate them to the pilots.  I've affectionately called the BPs in this proposal to "lives"...

Otherwise known as Prestige Points? 

Make the price of specialty ships high enough, and you've automatially built in a "time out" period between the loss of a specialty ship and the time you can buy another.

-S'Cipio

We know this doesn't work, PP price fizing only favors nutters over casual players.

I think the OOB system we've been using is okay, we just need to loosen up the transfers and un-restrict more ships.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

There may not be a way to heighten the simulation in a way to encourage more fatal PvPs, since heightening the simulation will only make captains more cautious.

Now if you want to encourage more PvP, then stand the simulation on its head.  All ship kills get you 1 VC.  All forced disengagements get you 2 VC's. 

"But what if I'm in a CA, and he's in a BB?  Why should he get 2 VC's for making me run?  That's not realistic!"

Remember, I'm not trying to be "more realistic", I'm tryng to generate more fatal PvPs.  If the other side's BB can gain all those points from making you run, that gives your side even more reason to gang up and kill it, right?  After that, with proper OOB, you'll have a BB and they won't.  Then it's their turn to run.

You want to make it more interesting?  No ship may disengage while outnumbered.

Yes, these are extreme, and they aren't "realistic", but if they get you what you want in an "Iron Man" campaign........

-S'Cipio

This gets away from the focus on the line heavy cruiser thus I have to say I have zero interest in such a scheme, it would only encourage plyers to get into the biggest and baddest ships and combinations and fly around in packs of 3 hoping missions would hold.

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm about to commit herressy . .. .

Why not do a serious server with nothing larger than a CCH and no specialty ships bigger than a CL.  No OOB, fly whatever you want.

Would that fly?  I'd love it.

[Grim]

The problem is there are some players who are good at pvp, those who arent and those who are beginners and are new to the game and are inexperienced.

You need to accomidate the various types of players, in terms of sgo 4 i think the 1VC per ship might have satisified the hardcore pvpers, but havent the people who are not as good as pvp or beginners new to the game. It provides satisfaction to the pvp focused and driven players that they are getting something out of the skills they display in destroying ships and gaining vc's for their side, but in terms of the lesser pvp skilled players it puts them off entered pvp encounters in fear of costing their side points.

As far as i was aware not everyone who plays for d2 plays purely for pvp.

I personally used to prefer the system where only a select few of ships gave vc's for kills and or disengagement.





 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

This gets away from the focus on the line heavy cruiser thus I have to say I have zero interest in such a scheme, it would only encourage plyers to get into the biggest and baddest ships and combinations and fly around in packs of 3 hoping missions would hold.

Not if the OOB is tight enough.  Once that BB is gone, it is gone.

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

Not if the OOB is tight enough.  Once that BB is gone, it is gone.

-S'Cipio

Just ask Agave 

[Kroma BaSyl]

I'm about to commit herressy . .. .

Why not do a serious server with nothing larger than a CCH and no specialty ships bigger than a CL.  No OOB, fly whatever you want.

Would that fly?  I'd love it.

Screw that. CAs vs D7s. Zip lock SFB all the way baby!!!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'm about to commit herressy . .. .

Why not do a serious server with nothing larger than a CCH and no specialty ships bigger than a CL.  No OOB, fly whatever you want.

Would that fly?  I'd love it.

Screw that. CAs vs D7s. Zip lock SFB all the way baby!!!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

This gets away from the focus on the line heavy cruiser thus I have to say I have zero interest in such a scheme, it would only encourage plyers to get into the biggest and baddest ships and combinations and fly around in packs of 3 hoping missions would hold.

Not if the OOB is tight enough.  Once that BB is gone, it is gone.

-S'Cipio

still ZERO interest,  disengagement from any hexx causing more VC loss than destruction is just plain silly.  And if that wont drive off the non pvp oriented types I don't know what would 

[FPF-DieHard]

still ZERO interest,  disengagement from any hexx causing more VC loss than destruction is just plain silly.  And if that wont drive off the non pvp oriented types I don't know what would 

What about equal?  I'm onlt talking about capital ships.  Line shuld be worth nothing.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

still ZERO interest,  disengagement from any hexx causing more VC loss than destruction is just plain silly.  And if that wont drive off the non pvp oriented types I don't know what would 

What about equal?  I'm onlt talking about capital ships.  Line shuld be worth nothing.

that is worth a discussion.

[Mog]

I'm about to commit herressy . .. .

Why not do a serious server with nothing larger than a CCH and no specialty ships bigger than a CL.  No OOB, fly whatever you want.

Would that fly?  I'd love it.

And how many times have I suggested this in the past? 

[Age]

I'm about to commit herressy . .. .

Why not do a serious server with nothing larger than a CCH and no specialty ships bigger than a CL.  No OOB, fly whatever you want.

Would that fly?  I'd love it.

And how many times have I suggested this in the past? 

I like this idea maybe just a couple of BCHs in each empire.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Hence my proposal:

Instead of BPs being allocated to ships, allocate them to the pilots.  I've affectionately called the BPs in this proposal to "lives"...

Otherwise known as Prestige Points? 

Actually, No.

Make the price of specialty ships high enough, and you've automatially built in a "time out" period between the loss of a specialty ship and the time you can buy another.

-S'Cipio

As DH said, PP-based systems favor the nutter and PP farmer.

I propose an independant BP system (which is what we're using now), but applied on a per pilot basis instead of per side.  The biggest complaint about the current OOB is that people lack the freedom to fly any given ship at their discretion, they need to get their RMs permission etc. to fly a ship...  Shifting the points to each player means no more asking for a ship, instead, they are allowed to spend their points on one.

Also, I think this could go a ways on livening up PvP combat.  With this system, the loss of a BB won't hurt the team directly, as they can always try to find a new pilot with enough lives to fly a BB.  However, by losing a BB, the player had / has consined themselves to flying line ships for most of the server prior to their BB purchase (to afford it), and for the remainder of the server after their BB's death, therefore potentially affecting their team's ability to fly heavy iron at a critical time...

On the flip side, there's a possibility that, for certain periods of time, the server would be flooded with heavy iron.  However, how is that different from say, SGO 4 here, where at one time there were over 50% of the players online (i'm guessing from that post by 762 with the SG4 ship distribution "snapshot" around here somewhere) of the pilots in DNs / Carrers / "special" ships...

Also, by allocating equal points to each pilot, that blurs the nutter / casual distinction as to who can fly heavy iron, as everyone gets the same chance to start with.  Meanwhile, the nutters can be rewarded with extra lives to reflect the time they were on-server (and a target), which will be a benefit, but, controlled with the proper moderation, the nutter won't overwhelm the server with enough PP to buy 3 BBs in the final week of a server...

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I propose an independant BP system (which is what we're using now), but applied on a per pilot basis instead of per side.  The biggest complaint about the current OOB is that people lack the freedom to fly any given ship at their discretion, they need to get their RMs permission etc. to fly a ship...  Shifting the points to each player means no more asking for a ship, instead, they are allowed to spend their points on one.

Also, I think this could go a ways on livening up PvP combat.  With this system, the loss of a BB won't hurt the team directly, as they can always try to find a new pilot with enough lives to fly a BB.  However, by losing a BB, the player had / has consined themselves to flying line ships for most of the server prior to their BB purchase (to afford it), and for the remainder of the server after their BB's death, therefore potentially affecting their team's ability to fly heavy iron at a critical time...


Also, by allocating equal points to each pilot, that blurs the nutter / casual distinction as to who can fly heavy iron, as everyone gets the same chance to start with.  Meanwhile, the nutters can be rewarded with extra lives to reflect the time they were on-server (and a target), which will be a benefit, but, controlled with the proper moderation, the nutter won't overwhelm the server with enough PP to buy 3 BBs in the final week of a server...

You're going to have to be more specific.  I'm still seeing no difference between what you describe above, and a server with very high starting PP and extra-extra expensive BB's.  How are the extra BP's allocated to nutters to reward their extra time on the server?  If it's based upon time or missions flown, isn't this just another word for prestige?

-S'Cipio

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Hiow about sticking to the bounty type deal, with a twist?  You got a bounty on your head and you run, double bounty.  Only a complete ferengi would put one of their worst/newest pilots as a bounty.  By doing it this way, it would really make a pilot that had a bounty on his head think twice about running.

[GDA-Agave]

I'm about to commit herressy . .. .

Why not do a serious server with nothing larger than a CCH and no specialty ships bigger than a CL.  No OOB, fly whatever you want.

Would that fly?  I'd love it.

And how many times have I suggested this in the past? 

I agree Mog, you have suggested this several times in the past.

I WOULD LOVE A SERVER LIKE THIS!!   Thanks for suggesting it once again Diehard.

Ya know, that type of server seems like something Scipio would be good at.  <hint, hint, nudge, nudge>

[GDA-Agave]

Not if the OOB is tight enough.  Once that BB is gone, it is gone.

-S'Cipio

Just ask Agave 

ROFL!!

STFU Diehard!!

Another moment of infamy for this poor 'ole diluted lizard warrior.   

[Kroma BaSyl]

Not if the OOB is tight enough.  Once that BB is gone, it is gone.

-S'Cipio

Just ask Agave 

ROFL!!

STFU Diehard!!

Another moment of infamy for this poor 'ole diluted lizard warrior.   

Infamy?? Why, on Ghdar you are being hailed as a hero. It was your finest momment yet Brother Agave.

[Julin Eurthyr]

I propose an independant BP system (which is what we're using now), but applied on a per pilot basis instead of per side.  The biggest complaint about the current OOB is that people lack the freedom to fly any given ship at their discretion, they need to get their RMs permission etc. to fly a ship...  Shifting the points to each player means no more asking for a ship, instead, they are allowed to spend their points on one.

Also, I think this could go a ways on livening up PvP combat.  With this system, the loss of a BB won't hurt the team directly, as they can always try to find a new pilot with enough lives to fly a BB.  However, by losing a BB, the player had / has consined themselves to flying line ships for most of the server prior to their BB purchase (to afford it), and for the remainder of the server after their BB's death, therefore potentially affecting their team's ability to fly heavy iron at a critical time...


Also, by allocating equal points to each pilot, that blurs the nutter / casual distinction as to who can fly heavy iron, as everyone gets the same chance to start with.  Meanwhile, the nutters can be rewarded with extra lives to reflect the time they were on-server (and a target), which will be a benefit, but, controlled with the proper moderation, the nutter won't overwhelm the server with enough PP to buy 3 BBs in the final week of a server...

You're going to have to be more specific.  I'm still seeing no difference between what you describe above, and a server with very high starting PP and extra-extra expensive BB's.  How are the extra BP's allocated to nutters to reward their extra time on the server?  If it's based upon time or missions flown, isn't this just another word for prestige?

-S'Cipio

Okay.  I'll be a nice guy and repost (with a minor rewrite) the concept of the entire rule here for another perusal...   (you gotta do these kinds of things when you're looking for feedback...)

"Lives" system:

At the beginning of the server, each pilot gets 4 "lives" (my affectionate term for individual build points).
A player can earn 1 additional life upon the attainment of the Rear Admiral rank.

The ships are price according to the following scheme:

Small (CA and smaller) Specialty ships = 1 life
BCHs = 2 lives
DNs = 3 lives
BBs = 4 lives
Carriers add 1 life to the above prices, ie, a CVA (DN hull) = 3+1 or 4 points.  It's entirely possible that the CVLs will be only 1 BP instead of 2...

A list of ships will be posted / linked to here, suffice it to say that the ships affected by this list will be any / all ships with some kind of limit in SFB, whether it's limited build, shock, S8 restrictions, etc.  It is possible that other rules (missions selectable restrictions) will be written that will remove certain ships from this list.

New wrinkle: The use of a restricted ship "uses" a number of lives.  Even if the ship is returned, those lives are considered "used" for the remainder of the server.  "Used" lives can only be spent on a ship of equal or smaller hull size than they were originally used for.  Example:  A player buys a CVD (typical CA-hulled "Interdiction" carrier).  Upon it's return to spacedock, they still have 4 lives, but they have "used" 2.  Those 2 "used" lives can only be applied to the purchase of 2 individual 1 life ships, or another 2 life CA-hull.  They cannot be applied to the purchase cost of a DN, or even a 2 life BCH, as they are bigger than the CA they were originally spent on.  "Used" lives will be spent first, whenever possible, to preserve the ability to fly larger vessels later on in the server.  Used lives can be mixed with new lives, but only if the used lifes are being spent appropriately.  Example: Player buys a CVD.  Returns it.  Uses one of the 2 "used" lives on a DWDB (say Z-DWD), which is destroyed, permanently removing one life from his stock.  He can buy a CA-strike carrier, as the other "used" life is being spent on a CA, and he applies a new life to finish the cost.

Ships Online Limit:  Pilots who have reached Commodore rank and higher face a limit on how many "special" ships can be online at once.  Of these higher ranked people, there can only be 5 "smaller" specialty ships, 3 BCHs, 2 DNs and 1 BB online at any given time, per race.  Once 25% - 33% (still under consideration) of a race's playerbase reaches Rear Admiral rank, Commodores will become exempt from this limit.

Build Cycles: There are expected to be 6 build cycles on the server, with each one starting on Monday and Thursday.  A player is only allowed to fly 2 different special ships during a given build cycle (this allows vareity while not allowing free and at-will swapping among numerous special ships).  They are allowed to freely swap between their 2 selected special ships and line ships at will throughout the cycle, however.

Ship Destruction: Upon the loss of a ship, the player permanently loses the lives spent buying the ship.  Also, they are prohibited from buying any other special ships for the remainder of the build cycle.  They are forced to fly line ships till the next build cycle.