Topic: An Open Apology to J'inn & the Coalition...

[762_XC]

Lessons learned.

Plasma ftrs shouldnt have CnC.

Feds and hydrans need it and have it already and works ok...

You're not thinking things through again Diz. Hydran fighters have gotten OWNED on this server by other fighters because of the CnC, which is stupid because the St-2 is better against ships anyway.

And unrestricting plasma fighters is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

[Corbomite]

And unrestricting plasma fighters is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

I was hoping it was a typo as the next sentence doesn't really fit with that. Any fighter with ship HW must be on a leash... period.

[FPF-DieHard]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

Ah, you are talking about the "photonF" fighters.

-S'Cipio

[762_XC]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

Try flying Hydran against a Klink or Lyran carrier then. Without rear-firing weapons you'll realize you might as well run off the map, since your fighters are practically useless against his.

You know how Mutt beat my ID? 16 ZY's vs 8 St-2 and 8 St-H. 12 ZY's survived.

In SFB this was balanced with CHAFF PACKS. They don't exist here, and if we're going to go with SFB fighters WE NEED SOMETHING ELSE.

/rant

[FPF-DieHard]

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

Ah, you are talking about the "photonF" fighters.

-S'Cipio

yes, I don't feel they need CnC restrictions.

[FPF-DieHard]

Try flying Hydran against a Klink or Lyran carrier then. Without rear-firing weapons you'll realize you might as well run off the map, since your fighters are practically useless against his.

In SFB this was balanced with CHAFF PACKS. They don't exist here, and if we're going to go with SFB fighters WE NEED SOMETHING ELSE.

/rant

I have some ideas which will see the light of day on New Cruiser Hell.   

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

In SFB this was balanced with CHAFF PACKS. They don't exist here, and if we're going to go with SFB fighters WE NEED SOMETHING ELSE.

/rant

I've been saying this for a while.  Just that this more SFBish fighter list makes it even more pronounced.

Remember the drone racks added to klink DN's to counter Fed & Kzinti DN's?

Never heard a word back from anyone about how this makes an imbalance between Hydran/Klink combat.

Anyways, DH, I hope your ideas come up with something.

[FPF-Wanderer]

And unrestricting plasma fighters is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

I was hoping it was a typo as the next sentence doesn't really fit with that. Any fighter with ship HW must be on a leash... period.

Gotta agree with t00l and Corbo on this. 

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

Actually, there is precedent.  If you look at the ship descriptions for any carrier in SFB, it shows exactly what fighters each carrier deployed.

For example, the vast majority of Romulan carriers deployed 1/2 plasma-F and 1/2 plasma-D fighters.  There was a reason for this, based off of the ship design itself.  For example, on the Sparrowhawk-B (SPB), each of the two modules (all Hawk series ships were "modular") had four stasis boxes for type-F plasma torps (to be loaded on the fighters).  Each module carried four torpedo and four superiority fighters.

Personally, since the addition of so many new ships to the shiplist, particularly carriers, and the usage of SFB-type fighters, I have been of the opinion that any fighter CnC should be based strickly off of SFB loadouts.  For example, the Federation used F-18's on the vast majority of their carriers.

My $.02

[Corbomite]

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

Ah, you are talking about the "photonF" fighters.

-S'Cipio

yes, I don't feel they need CnC restrictions.

With the exception of the FDFm I agree.

[FPF-Bach]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

50% Helbore fighter CnC sucks.

[Mog]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

50% Helbore fighter CnC sucks.

Indeed it does, considering it ought to be 33%

[762_XC]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

50% Helbore fighter CnC sucks.

Indeed it does, considering it ought to be 33%

Indeed it should, if we had chaff packs, dogfighting and fighter EW.

[Mog]

Had a feeling I would garner some neg karma for that comment.

Funny though, 762, that before the advent of the rules you mentioned, there was still a 33% restriction on hellbore fighters.

[762_XC]

Had a feeling I would garner some neg karma for that comment.

Funny though, 762, that before the advent of the rules you mentioned, there was still a 33% restriction on hellbore fighters.

Well having them under human control makes a slight difference too. 

[FPF-Bach]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

50% Helbore fighter CnC sucks.

Indeed it does, considering it ought to be 33%

Why this is SFC not SFB is it not?

[Kougar_XC]

Why this is SFC not SFB is it not?

My thoughts exactly! This is SFC, not  SFB, and it never will quite be same as SFB even with a completely balanced shiplist and fighterlist. You'd need to redesign the game mechanics and probably even more...

I have issues with ANY fighter that requires more than a single plasma F to kill! One S torp to take out a single fighter is to much. 3 standard drones to take out a single fighter is to much. Even 4 esgs used at radius three will only kill 1 of those fighters... In stock SFC I remember them taking out entire squads at a time.

SFC and it's ships were not designed with these types of fighters in mind, even with a SFB-like shiplist. All of these SFB things that I have no clue about that were mentioned that SFC doesn't have is an example of this.

For every SFB thing you add, something will be unbalanced elsewhere to some degree. Almost no ship, with the exception of Battleships, few droners, or a handful of plasma ships would be able to deal with 16 fighters that would require 416 points of damage to kill, particularly without getting in close to knife fight them. Especially since they can be recalled to repair as needed. Please keep in mind 416 points of damage is enough to kill just about any dreadnaught and even some battleships. 104 per fighter squad is more then most ships could hope to achieve, especially outside range 5. It would take 9 drones, or 8 plasma Fs, or 5 esgs set at overload range and a couple extra phasers to take out just one full squad.

You might as well give the Roms fighters that move 20 speed, that can also take 26 points of damage, that can fire an R torp apiece for all the balance I see right now. Or maybe some Hydran fighters with multiple phG2s? Or ISC fighters with PPD...

Fighters with souped up firepower are one thing, but fighters that require much more damage beyond the standard levels unbalance this game to much. Especially under human control on ships that carry more than 8 or 12 of them. Not everyone flys a X-ship or battleship or even a dreadnaught... If someone in a heavy cruiser or smaller can take on a CVD with 16 A10ms that is controlled by a SFC veteran, such as FireSoul, and manage to win it without spending 5 hours running around tossing plasma over their shoulder then I'd love to see the film.

[Mog]

Sorry, t00l , gotta agree with the 50% helebore rule. ?Try 50% less Cutty Sark ?

Plasma fighters is debatable, my point is there was no reason to put CnC limits on the "Plasma D" fighters. ? There is no precident for this in SFB and isn't needed for balance.

50% Helbore fighter CnC sucks.

Indeed it does, considering it ought to be 33%

Why this is SFC not SFB is it not?

Ah, silly me, I forgot this was StarFleet Cheese.

Btw, Kougar makes an extremely good point about the damage needed to deal with fighters.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Agree with Kougar, excellent post BTW bro.

I like SFB, I love SFC, I dont like SFF/SSPF so much.  I think there is too much emphasis on fighters and pfs once we get to late era with all these new 'toys".  The origional game SFB was built around the line Heavy Cruiser, be nice to see more servers done the same way IMHO.  There is room for ftrs and pfs of course, but better that they remained a side show rather than the feature entertainer.

[Capt Jeff]

agree w/Chuut here.

I swear all these rules were put in place to limit what people like to call "Cheese".  OOB, CnC, etc.....

Now you have to spend hours going over rules (instead of playing)......what ship can I buy?  What fighters can I use?  What hex can I go into?  All in the name of balance.. ROFL.

We're no more balanced then we were before all this and now we're stuffed full of rules and MORE CHEESE.