Topic: Concerning those who have Ad-Aware and Spybot..

[Pestalence_XC]

Microsoft Anti-Spyware Beta 1

i just tried the microsoft Anti-Spyware Beta 1 on my system.. it found 5 items on my system that Ad-Aware and Spybot didn't find..

anyhow, it found vx2.transponder browser plug in, flashget (2 different signatures), and netpumper (2 different signatures)...

Hopefully that takes care of some of my bandwidth shortage from my cable connection..

Spython, Ad-Aware, and Spybot has kept my system clean for the last few years.. now I am adding 1 more program into my lineup of keeping my system clean.. I suggest using at least the microsoft anti-spyware, Ad-Aware SE, and Spybot S&D to keep a system clean of Adware, Spyware, Trojans, Tracking Cookies, hijackers, unsafe ActiveX plugins, etc... each catches things the other ones don't..

Anyhow, for those of you who want to check it out.. you can DL it from :

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx



Also for Microsoft recommended software to protect your system.. you can look here at :

http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/downloads/default.mspx

notice that norton is not listed.. norton is considered by several programming companies to be a virus in itself.. I personally use Panda Internet Securities... I have been using it for years.. and to now find out it is a Microsoft recommended protection system, that makes me feel better as it has been tested by microsoft to work on Windows systems...

Anyhow just thought you should know..

[E_Look]

Pest, could you elaborate a bit more about Norton?

They USED to have such a rock solid, sterling rep.

[Pestalence_XC]

Well several companies, such as PC magazine and PC World, have investigated norton and it's integration into a PC.. it burries itself into C:\Program Files\Symantic, c:\Program Files\Common, C:\Windows\System32, C:\Documents and Settings\All Users, C:\Documents and Settings\(Username), and other locations on the HDD, thus slowing system performance when it is being used as active scan while the system is running, dropping system performance by up to 30%.. It has also been recorded as itentifying some legitimate program files as Virus and deleting them, as such leaving the program inoperatable.. this includes some of the more obscure Microsoft published programs.. Plus the deep rooted Registry entries.. on some systems, it isn't so bat, but any program rooting a minimum of 10 registry folders (not the keys them selves.... Keys number much more) tends to be considered invasive..

On top of all that, Norton does not fully uninstall using Add\Remove programs..

if one wishes to step up to a newer or better AV scanner, you will have to manually delete the Symantic registry entries.. the norton registry entries, and all folders located on one's system prior to installing any other AV.. the method is so troublesome that it is designed to discourage anyone from uninstalling the invasive norton program so that people will re-install it in order to keep some protection on their system no matter what impact it has on their system...

Most other Anti-Virus company programs will uninstall almost completely using Add\Remove programs and will automatically uninstall the registry keys and *.dll files where norton will not..

Norton is not an actual virus, but it is reguarded as a Virus by several companies due to it's invasiveness on a system and the impact on system performance.

It took me over 2 hours to completely uninstall Norton System Securities 2k3 off my sisters computer just so that Panda Internet Securities could install...

When she decided to try AVG, Panda uninstalled in 7 Min without a problem one and AVG installed just fine...

then she decided to go back to Panda as their software had more to offer and protected her system against much more than AVG, the change back took less than a total of 15 min...

It depends on what people like to use, but i tend to go with performance sites because i am a system speed freak (without overclocking my system.. i don't like burning up my system)... After doing my own testing with norton and other AV's with my sisters system, I really noticed a performance drop when it was running norton... and the pain it was to uninstall.. it was not good... norton imbeds so deep in the registry, that even if you have a good registry cleaner like RegSupreme Pro, RegSupreme can not remove the Symantic or norton entries from the registry after norton is uninstalled.. the entries have to be manually removed..

to me that is just a bit too invasive and the performance hit of 11% on my sisters system due to norton, it really put me out..

Anyhow.. hope that this helps.

[Bonk]

They do list Symantec (though I dislike Norton too). McAfee has given me troubles in the past too, though fewer.  I'll give the MS AntiSpyware Beta a try and see what it turns up that Ad-aware and Search and destroy do not. 

edit: Well, I tried it out and my Ad-aware and Spybot S&D scans came up clean, MS's antispyware warned me that my legitimate TightVNC installation could be a threat if I was not aware of it. (I installed it) Other than that, it found nothing else. Interesting to have the option of "real-time" spyware detection - though I have it turned off, like my AV scanner.

[Capt. Mike]

Thanks dude..it found three I didn't know of...as to Norton's, I will have to do some research

Mike

[toasty0]

FYI All,

Pleasae keep in mind this IS a beta and can cause conflicts with unknown other software.

Jerry

[toasty0]

LOL...I really get a kick out of the graphics.

[Nemesis]

FYI All,

Pleasae keep in mind this IS a beta and can cause conflicts with unknown other software.

Jerry

Keep in mind that it also calls home and therefore counts as spyware as well. 

[Bonk]

FYI All,

Pleasae keep in mind this IS a beta and can cause conflicts with unknown other software.

Jerry

Keep in mind that it also calls home and therefore counts as spyware as well. 

Even if you turn off its network reporting feature and unload the real-time scanner? (not running a software firewall to check on it...) It extemely unlikely to be installed without the users knowledge and therefore does not qualify as spyware, you know about it and can turn off its phone home feature... (I think - not actually confirmed). Not that I'm trying to defend microsoft, just into tech semantics.

[toasty0]

FYI All,

Pleasae keep in mind this IS a beta and can cause conflicts with unknown other software.

Jerry

Keep in mind that it also calls home and therefore counts as spyware as well.

Incorrect.

[Ravok]

 Thanks Pestalence i had 3 as well . I detest this garbage +1 for you.

[toasty0]

Thanks Pestalence i had 3 as well . I detest this garbage +1 for you.

agreed...a +1 for whatshisname. hehehehehe

[toasty0]

Jujst ran a comparission test of Ad Aware versus the MS beta. Both ran through 200 gigs of HDD storage at about the same time frame. Both found NO critical spyware or malware, but Ad Aware did find alert me to the following:



Not a big deal but it is info I appreciate getting. For now I think I'll continue to use BOTH apps.

Jerry

[Ravok]

 The MS one caught a bad one again this morning that the other 2 missed.

 But untill they get all of the bugs out im going to stick to all 3 for a while as welll.

 Thanks again Pestalence!!!!!

[Nemesis]

Keep in mind that it also calls home and therefore counts as spyware as well.

Incorrect.

Just to clarify here toasty are you saying that the program does not call home or that in spite of calling home it is not spyware?

The source of my information is in the following link and quoted below.

Apparently the tool is kind of spyware itself, since it reports back to HQ with data on what it has done on your machine. It's not that I care that Microsoft has a huge database of spyware infections and their relative popularity. It's just that I have yet to see what good any of this has done me. They never release the data. So what's the point? The company's argument that it collects this data so it can do a better job doesn't wash with me, given how secretive Microsoft always tends to be. For all I know they are going to push some spyware out there themselves and market it as foolproof.

You will note that it clearly states that the tool calls home to Microsoft.  Sounds like spyware to me.  Unless it asks first and does not report when I say no.  There have been other instances of "bugs" in such features from Microsoft such that they report no matter what you say.  The bugs were always fixed by patches. 

[toasty0]

Keep in mind that it also calls home and therefore counts as spyware as well.

Incorrect.

Just to clarify here toasty are you saying that the program does not call home or that in spite of calling home it is not spyware?

The source of my information is in the following link and quoted below.

Apparently the tool is kind of spyware itself, since it reports back to HQ with data on what it has done on your machine. It's not that I care that Microsoft has a huge database of spyware infections and their relative popularity. It's just that I have yet to see what good any of this has done me. They never release the data. So what's the point? The company's argument that it collects this data so it can do a better job doesn't wash with me, given how secretive Microsoft always tends to be. For all I know they are going to push some spyware out there themselves and market it as foolproof.

You will note that it clearly states that the tool calls home to Microsoft.? Sounds like spyware to me.? Unless it asks first and does not report when I say no.? There have been other instances of "bugs" in such features from Microsoft such that they report no matter what you say.? The bugs were always fixed by patches.?

Nem,

The call home function can be turned off. It worked much like the Windows Update on XP.

Jerry

[Nemesis]

Nem,

The call home function can be turned off. It worked much like the Windows Update on XP.

Jerry

I haven't tried the software so I can't say. 

Does the program clearly tell you that it will call home and indicate how to turn it off?  Does the turn off actually work?  If it  requires you to know about the call home feature and then look hard to turn it off then I would still call it spyware. 

[Pestalence_XC]

Nem,

The call home function can be turned off. It worked much like the Windows Update on XP.

Jerry

I haven't tried the software so I can't say.

Does the program clearly tell you that it will call home and indicate how to turn it off? Does the turn off actually work? If it requires you to know about the call home feature and then look hard to turn it off then I would still call it spyware.

The call home is easily disabled when you go into the configuration settings located in tools button..

no one anti-spyware program will detect everything.. Spybot Search & Destroy and Adaware SE work great when ran together.. Spybot will remove usage tracks for your software as well as find maleware and spyware, Adaware works great in removing invalid MRU files , tracking cookies, and trojans... now using Microsoft Anti-spyware checks Active X and files deeper than most Anti-Spyware programs and as such it can detect items that Spybot and Adaware may not recognize as of yet since microsoft has a much bigger database than either Adaware or Spybot have combined...

The call home is designed into the Beta version in order to check for causing system crashing or to help debug the program in the event the program crashes itself.. but it can be disabled in the program's config settings.. as well as automatic updates can be disabled and so forth.. it can be operated completely manually.. Anyhow, the choice is yours, however as you can see by other people here that it is detecting items that Adaware and Spybot are not detecting...

Is it perfect... heck no, it is Beta and it is microsoft, so what you expect, but in the mean time, it is doing it's purpose in finding items that should not be operating on your system... Yes other companies are making trojans to hit Micorsoft's program, but look at whythey are doing it.. companies have made trojans to spiff Adaware and Spybot, some even completely corrupt spybot.. now that microsoft has a program that will detect the spyware that has been spoofing Adware and Spybot, companies are threatened in their spyware apps.. and so they are now trying to target Microsoft because they have lost a lot of data gathering trojans being detected now.... in otherwords, microsoft's Anti-spyware program is working correctly and Trojan makers are threatened..

it is logical progress.. they now have to create a program that disables microsoft's program in order to reinfect your system.... sounds like Microsoft hit a few companies pretty hard.

[toasty0]

Nem,

The call home function can be turned off. It worked much like the Windows Update on XP.

Jerry

I haven't tried the software so I can't say. 

Does the program clearly tell you that it will call home and indicate how to turn it off?  Does the turn off actually work?  If it  requires you to know about the call home feature and then look hard to turn it off then I would still call it spyware. 

Yes, both during installation and any time there after as Pesty pointed out.

[The Bar-Abbas Anomaly]

 

I beat a virus/malware infestation yesterday that was the worst I have ever seen.  Installed by the owner's teenage son downloading porn, I think, but I finally had to do it with my new bootable CD that runs WinXP off the CD drive & a RAMdisk.

UBCD4Win creation instructions are available here:  http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ if anyone's interested in making one of these yourselves.  You'll need your own version of Windows, but trust me when I say THIS THING is DaBOMB!

[Ravok]

 I have noticed, that the Microsoft version updates alot often than than Ad Aware or Spy Bot, And is still catching things they are  not.

[E_Look]

Barabbas, a friend of mine has just got some kind of virus or malware that hijacks his browser.  He has tried online and free/shareware antivirus and spyware checkers and he says they all can see that it's there, but don't remove it.

He's never done it before, but he plans to manually go into the registry to remove it.  I told him unless he knew what he was looking for in terms of specific keys, it was risky.

You got advice?

P.S.  I think you're more of an Upright Piano.

[Sirgod]

What spyware programs is Barrabas using?

I need to go back through about 1100 Pm's and I'll give him a call. He's a good guy.

stephen

[Javora]

Barabbas, a friend of mine has just got some kind of virus or malware that hijacks his browser.  He has tried online and free/shareware antivirus and spyware checkers and he says they all can see that it's there, but don't remove it.

He's never done it before, but he plans to manually go into the registry to remove it.  I told him unless he knew what he was looking for in terms of specific keys, it was risky.

You got advice?

P.S.  I think you're more of an Upright Piano.

I would suggest running HijackThis, you can find the program and advice on running and spyware detection at The Tech Support Forum.  Hope this helps.

[The Bar-Abbas Anomaly]

What spyware programs is Barrabas using?

I need to go back through about 1100 Pm's and I'll give him a call. He's a good guy.

stephen

Barabbas has never found a single anti-spyware tool that 'Does the Job'....  I use Hijack This, AdAware, SpyBot S&D, CWS Shredder and half-a-dozen other utils and even manually look through \Windows and \Windows\System32 sorted by date to delete stuff that looks fishy.  My new UBCD is aparently the trump card, though.


E_Look, removing registry entries from the registry can be done, but it's not as effective as you might think.  The big problem with malware & viruses is that you can't get rid of something while Windows is running it, and even in safe mode much of this crap is still active and un-removable.  Often they don't even show up in Windows Task Manager or don't allow you to stop the service from Task Manager.  That's why my new boot CD is so useful - It lets me run Windows independently from the copy that's on the infected computer's HDD so that I can remove any file on the drive without getting 'Access Denied - File in Use' messages.

The best place to start is actually the Add/Remove Programs menu....  Seriously.  Go through and dump anything that refers to 'Toolbar' or 'Search' or 'Bargin' or 'Offer' or 'IE Helper'.... Pretty much anything that looks suspect.  Often the uninstallers won't work (especially if you've tried to take stuff out already) but ya gotta try.  Then download both Ad-Aware and SpyBot and update their data files, reboot in safe mode and run both of 'em back-to-back.  Then run HijackThis and clean up IE....

[toasty0]

What spyware programs is Barrabas using?

I need to go back through about 1100 Pm's and I'll give him a call. He's a good guy.

stephen

Sounds like he needs more than just a spyware detection and removal program.

First thing, if he has a cable connection tell him to turn it off/unplug it. Some of htese these hijackerr programms won't/can't run if it can't talk to the mother ship.

Next install McCafee or some other good (not Norton the nasty) virus detection and destruction program with the lastest definitions. Run it.

Then re-connect cable and see what happens. If it is still getting hijacked let us know and we'll come up with some more lame exercises.

Btw, if he/she is still getting hijacked make sure to incluse what OS he/she is using in your next post.

Jerry

[KBF-Crim]

Will this work on windowsME?

[Pestalence_XC]

Will this work on windowsME?

Microsoft Anti-Spyware should work on any Windows OS.. they did not list OS restrictions.

[E_Look]

Toast,  as far as I know, it's XP, his OS is (my best Yoda imitiation).

And, I don't think I'll see him 'til Tuesday.  I sincerely hope he doesn't try something silly before then.  Incidentally, as a word of warning, he mentioned in passing that it was some gambling site he thinks he got it from.  I don't know much about them, so I don't have any more details.  I think the best advice in surfing the 'Net is just to stay away from questionable game sites and of course, porn sites.  You'd think grown, smart people would figure that much out.

Anyhow, what makes a hijacker much more so persnickety than some other kind of virus/malware?

[Pestalence_XC]

OK.. just tried to install microsoft Anti-Spyware on Win 98. It stated that it would only install on Win 2K, Win Xp and Win 2K3.. so there is limitations on which OS it will help.

[KBF-Crim]

You know...I'm gettin real sick of these planned obsolesence pricks...MS being on top of the heap of them...

Thanks Pesty...figured as much...

[Javora]

OK.. just tried to install microsoft Anti-Spyware on Win 98. It stated that it would only install on Win 2K, Win Xp and Win 2K3.. so there is limitations on which OS it will help.

Nice catch.  Microsoft bought the software from another company but I can't remember where at the moment.  If that company's website is still up then it may be a good place to look up even more product information.

[Nemesis]

Nice catch.  Microsoft bought the software from another company but I can't remember where at the moment.  If that company's website is still up then it may be a good place to look up even more product information.

Link to original companies site

Announcement: Microsoft Acquires Anti-spyware Leader
Giant Company Software Inc.

New offerings will help customers keep spyware and other deceptive software off of their computers.

On December 16, 2004, Microsoft announced its acquisition of GIANT Company Software, Inc., a provider of top-rated anti-spyware and Internet security products. Microsoft will use the acquisition to provide its customers with new tools to help protect them from the threat of spyware and other deceptive software. In addition, key personnel from Giant will be joining Microsoft’s security efforts. Additional information about the acquisition can be found in the press release.

[toasty0]

You know...I'm gettin real sick of these planned obsolesence pricks...MS being on top of the heap of them...

Thanks Pesty...figured as much...

You may be jumping to conclusions here, Crim. It may just be a case of an OLD OS using 16 bit addressing and the NEWER OS using 32 bit addressing.

[Bonk]

You know...I'm gettin real sick of these planned obsolesence pricks...MS being on top of the heap of them...

Thanks Pesty...figured as much...

Uh, Crim... its 2005!!!!... and it is operating systems we're talking about here... Windows ME is pretty much windows 98 and they both suck... really its pretty amazing you've gotten this far on a 7 year old OS... says a lot for its design (not necessarily implementation).. At least do yourself the favor of moving up to Windows 2000...

Not so sure about planned obsolescence with MS... I have an FT-IR running MS-DOS 5 on a 286... still works like a charm... Multiple instruments on Win3.1 still chugging along... even one on OS2 lol...

Not meaning to pick on you or be rabidly pro MS... just some thoughts.

[KBF-Crim]

LMAO...you're talking to a guy who's wife drives a new truck while he in fact prefers to drive a 73' pontiac

Sorry for the mini-rant....It's not so much needing to upgrade...as much as refusing to...

The ONLY thing I actually Need my PC for is running SFC and logging in here......everything else is inconsequencial to me...

That...and the fact that I zero dollars to spare on non essentials...

I must be the luckeyest bastard in the world...I rarely have PC problems and when I do...they are usually easy fixes ( or I beg sethan to help out *snicker*)...

It aint broke ...yet...I might be able to pick up a new PC with my income tax refund....we'll see...

I'll check out the root company and see if they have older versions...

[Ravok]

 Im getting sick of buying PC's only to have the become redundant 2 years later.

 I need a new one now, but keep putting it off because I really don't know what to get. And shelling out 2 thousand bucks every 2 years to keep up, is getting real old.
 
 

[KBF-Crim]

LOL...I know...Imagine a ford dealer saying...sorry...your car is two years old.......we wont service it anymore......oh...and your five year warranty?...forget it...we changed our minds...we've pulled product support...

Goodyear...we wont make tires for it anymore...it's two whole years old...

Oil?...to protect your engine?.....sorry...we only give that to people who have NEW cars...

As I said...It just another straw of many...

I needed a damn spindle for a playstation once....the very same spindle as on a walkman...cost two dollars...the parts store wouldnt sell me one...because I stated it was for a playstation...and as such...the electronics store was forbidden to sell ANY parts for PS as part of an aggreement from SONY for the chain to do warranty work for SONY...

The only way to get this two dollar part replaced was to send MY PS and 99 bucks(with shipping BOTH ways) to someplace in Mich and they would send me a re-factory unit...

Last Sony product I EVER bought...or ever will buy....

[Ravok]

I honestly don't know how they get away with it.

 And if that would have been my PS. I would have thrown it at the greedy fools, after telling me that pile of slop!
 ( Thats just wrong!!!)

[E_Look]

Bonk, running your FTIR on a 286 has nothing to do with planned obsolescence or not.  It's just that some superblazingwarpspeed is not required (or in some cases, given the older boards in a piece of analytical equipment incompatible) for the relatively simple demands of ordinary experimental data collection and transfer (or in many cases, even analysis).  Planned obsolescence has more to do with HP or somebody putting in mostly plastic shutter parts that wear away faster than we're all used to.

[Bonk]

Valid points...  ESPECIALLY HP WITH THE CHEAP PLASTIC CRAP!!!  ... lol sorry to shout, they went downhill after the divisions split up... and joined with compaq... and got a female ceo <ducks>... the best hp printer I ever had was the deskjet 540... they're all garbage now....however...

The PC I built myself five years ago is the one I'm still working on... it will still be good for a while yet. (and I abuse it horribly). The only thing that is making me look at upgrading is Nexus... if the non-HT&L patch does not work with my old matrox G450 then I'll look at putting in a Matrox Parhelia to do the job (drool).. in anticipation of building a P4 box... I've been putting it off as long as possible because bus and board designs are changing so fast and I half expect the current processors themselves to become quickly obsolete... but I fully expect the next PC I build to last me 5-7 years... I just don't expect the OS to... (for home use anyway... sure MS-DOS 5 is still good for some jobs 20 years later but SFC won't run on it... hehe...)  ... I expect my PC to last as long as a car,  I do not expect a personal OS version to... that would be silly... like saying one Driver's ed course will do you for your whole 60+ year driving career (unfortunately many think this is the case...)

to continue my rant... one must purchase quality at the outset... if you are looking to save $50 bucks overall on a PC purchase then you are a fool... one must look at each component and its suitabilty for the job you have in mind... not to mention that anything less than top notch quality is out of the question... similarly the latest and greatest is out of the question... usually ~16 month old technology is the best buy.

And bundled OEM OS installations on premade systems are usually bad news... I like to use an intact version of windows I'm sure of to install on a machine I've built.

Bonk,
Still hammering away on my PIII Tualatin 133FSB machine lol... (which still beats many new cheapy P4 builds in performance btw...)

However I build my webservers on cheapy premounted AMD processor boards and treat them disposably (not the data though).

Bottom line: I want and expect my chosen OS to update and change frequently to meet my demands and the demands of others... though usually this snowballs into pig products like Windows and Linux... which is why I continue to explore things like FreeBSD and QNX... (my webserver is on its third free version of QNX in as many years... I love it... )

I could rant on hardware quality and OS popularity vs obscurity for ages... lol.