Topic: X-Ship BP proposal

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I'd like you guys to stop using the appallative 'Mid server rule change' cuz that has such a bad stigma attached to it.

But it *is* a midserver rule change.  The stigma associated with that honest description arose for a reason.

And some rule changes are not only needed,

This one isn't *needed*, it's just a sudden urge to toss more toys into the pit.

-S'Cipio

Agreed

[762_XC]

I'll take that bet. Because even if I lose it does not make your point.

I honestly don't remember every single combo we flew. We tried 5 BPs in different combos, we tried 6 and probably 7 too. I'm sorry we did not make a CCX testing log for your review. But do you honestly think if you can come up with two 3 point ships that can beat it that even begins to make a point? For every 6 point combo that can beat a CCX I guarantee I'll come up with at least one that has no chance. The point in testing is not to find something that can beat it every time, it's to find a point zone where it can win about 50% of the time versus varied (and likely) opponents. For us that was 6 BP.

Anyway you did NO testing which means your argument has NO value.

[Kroma BaSyl]

You have any ide how many fights we did?   not just the ones listed in that thread.

And unfortunately not the only one that is relavent here. So all this talk of testing is hot air in this particular case.

I get your point now.  Comparing X-Ships to Non-Xships is a BS test.

Um, right?

exactly.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I'll take that bet. Because even if I lose it does not make your point.

So combat only matters if the results fit your pre-defined results. Man your methodology was more flawed than I thought. That's not testing you were doing it was rationalizing.

I honestly don't remember every single combo we flew. We tried 5 BPs in different combos, we tried 6 and probably 7 too. I'm sorry we did not make a CCX testing log for your review.

There is only one ship here that you are trying to put the primium on. The fact that you didn't test it compaired to the ships in it's class shows me you don't understand the first thing about testing.

But do you honestly think if you can come up with two 3 point ships that can beat it that even begins to make a point? For every 6 point combo that can beat a CCX I guarantee I'll come up with at least one that has no chance. The point in testing is not to find something that can beat it every time, it's to find a point zone where it can win about 50% of the time versus varied (and likely) opponents. For us that was 6 BP.

I used one example, the most extreme in fact, becasue the Gorn CCXs are the worst equipt to fight an I-CCX. Take any other races CCXs vs the I-CCX and the result will be exactly the same. Your other 3 point ships come down to 2 DNH and I am betting there are plenty of DNH combo's that can beat an I-CCX, so the math looks like your 3 point BP ships are coming out even better than 50% win ratio.

Anyway you did NO testing which means your argument has NO value.

Actually I did shiplist testing with DH for this one, mainly with CVAs and plasma fighters. However, you are correct in that just like you I didn't test this particular combo either. Thus your argument has equal value to mine.  Except that since you seem to be unwilling to accept a valid test of the particular ship in question, it would seem you are not to confident in your theory.

[FPF-DieHard]

You have any ide how many fights we did?   not just the ones listed in that thread.

And unfortunately not the only one that is relavent here. So all this talk of testing is hot air in this particular case.

I get your point now.  Comparing X-Ships to Non-Xships is a BS test.

Um, right?

exactly.

More reason to use a third type of "money" for X-ships 

(Just not for this server)

X-ship hell?

[Kroma BaSyl]

More reason to use a third type of "money" for X-ships 

Not necessarily, as Scipio pointed out it goes right along with SFB history to have to make choice about whether you build old or X tech. 

To tell the truth though on this server it hardly matters as there is going to still be more heavy metal than you can shake a stick at with all the DNs and specialty ships already piling up in moth balls.

[FPF-DieHard]

More reason to use a third type of "money" for X-ships 

Not necessarily, as Scipio pointed out it goes right along with SFB history to have to make choice about whether you build old or X tech. 

To tell the truth though on this server it hardly matters as there is going to still be more heavy metal than you can shake a stick at with all the DNs and specialty ships already piling up in moth balls.

But nobody will build any X-ships as they are not worht the price with the exception of the ISC CLX. 

Since we have unlimited BCH hull and they can be converted to Carriers and Tenders, they are too good of a deal to not build.

[Kroma BaSyl]

[
But nobody will build any X-ships as they are not worht the price with the exception of the ISC CLX. 

Since we have unlimited BCH hull and they can be converted to Carriers and Tenders, they are too good of a deal to not build.

Then maybe the BCHs and their upgrades were to cheap. I would take a 3 BP CMX over any G-BCH variant or G-DNH as we already have plenty of those. Besides since the X ships aren't limited by the total number of DNs online at a time they would allow those smart enough to buy them the ability to field more heavy metal simultaneously.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I'd love to see an I-BBVZ take on 4 F-DNH

Oooh!  I'd love to see that too!

Tonight!

On the server!

In a cage match!


Blade, you up for it?


<gets popcorn>

-S'Cipio

[Kroma BaSyl]

Oh, and Kroma, there is something wrong with ur Sig. It slows WAYYYYYYY down when I scroll past it... Er, I hope that wasnt intentional, yur pic is a little rough on the eyes...

That's is just you libido taking over. I have been known to have that effect on men.

[FPF-Wanderer]

5 and let's settle the issue.

Alliance/Coalition gets:

2281:  1 XBP
2283:  2 XBP's
2285:  3 XBP's

I.S.C. get:

2281:  0 XBP
2283:  1 XBP
2285:  2 XBP

The Alliance and Coalition must distribute their XBP's evenly when possible among their respective empires. The X-tech BP's compliment regular BP's when building X-ships, but can't be spent on anything other than X-ships.

Simple enough?

As war drags on, the various empires should begin suffering economic exhaustion.  (In Fed and Emppire, this is handled by reducing the economic points your provinces produce.)

It really doesn't make sense for us to start getting *more* points to play with. 

-S'Cipio

Wanderer is a liberal, he simply can raise taxes

Only on the top 1%.

[762_XC]

You talk in circles Kroma, but have yet to make a point. You need to run for congress or something.

Sorry you think (assume) our methodology was flawed. That's still only your opinion however.

[762_XC]

So what do we have to do to put this to bed? Get an RM vote or something?

[FPF-DieHard]

So what do we have to do to put this to bed? Get an RM vote or something?

I think Dizzy should make a decision, keep his pimp-hand strong, and no voting.

Our opinions should be known from this "debate."

Democracy is bad.

[Kroma BaSyl]

You talk in circles Kroma, but have yet to make a point. You need to run for congress or something.

I talk in circles? You started out by claiming you had the authority and valued opinion because you did testings, all that crap about combat experience vs looking at the numbers. Then you admit that you can't remeber if you actual tested it, but still insist that since you vaguely recall doing some testing, at some time, on some ships, that had no relavence to the issue at hand, your opinion as an expert witness was more valuable than everyone elses. The only one talking in circles t00l is you.

Coming in claiming to be the authoritative voice due to your combat experience only to admit you had no combat experience in the particular ships seems a bit fishy to me.Your the one claiming expert combat experience as the sole factor in determining ship worth, you also claimed to have done such, but then it was discovered you were just posturing. I really think you may be better suited for politics than I.

Sorry you think (assume) our methodology was flawed. That's still only your opinion however.

Yes my expert opinion. Software quality and testing is actually one of my professional specialties, honed on years of writing FDA regulated clinical testing packages for blood banks. However, it doesn't take an expert to understand that any testing methodology ought to require actual testing in order to not be considered seriously flawed.

[Corbomite]

Now it is Corb showing his ignorance, what Gorn X-ship combo would you have taken to match the BPV more closely. The problem Corb is the imbalanced X-ships, we took the CA and 2 CLs just like you, but as the hull BPV and results showed they are not an even match. Maybe you need to brush up on the PBR rules if you have bothered to read them at all.

I'm not going to even justify that inane crap with a response except to say.....




6-0 Baby!!!


And since you were too chicken to show up and play I don't see how you could possibly know anyrhing about it at all.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Now it is Corb showing his ignorance, what Gorn X-ship combo would you have taken to match the BPV more closely. The problem Corb is the imbalanced X-ships, we took the CA and 2 CLs just like you, but as the hull BPV and results showed they are not an even match. Maybe you need to brush up on the PBR rules if you have bothered to read them at all.

I'm not going to even justify that inane crap with a response except to say.....




6-0 Baby!!!


And since you were too chicken to show up and play I don't see how you could possibly know anyrhing about it at all.

But isn't it a rather hollow victory to be cheesing your way to the finals? <snicker>

[Corbomite]

Exactly the reason we decided to play ISC, to show that the rules do not reflect a fair and balanced playing field for all. I think we have done a good job of it, but I am sure it will be lost on the rest of you.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Exactly the reason we decided to play ISC, to show that the rules do not reflect a fair and balanced playing field for all. I think we have done a good job of it, but I am sure it will be lost on the rest of you.

Your breeching to the choir, brother Corbo.

[Corbomite]

Your breeching to the choir, brother Corbo.

You just stay out of my breeches there sister!