Topic: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!  (Read 9256 times)

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Offline Anthony Scott

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OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« on: February 02, 2005, 05:29:36 pm »
Yep, you read that right, the series is cancelled..


Read more http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/9469.html

 :'(

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Offline FedRebel

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2005, 05:37:08 pm »

Quote
Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!


 :o :o :o

Yep, you read that right, the series is cancelled..


Read more http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/news/article/9469.html


  :( :) ;D ;D

Let's hope this marks the end of Trek's dark age

Offline Anthony Scott

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2005, 05:40:12 pm »
Looks like I will have to find something else to watch on Fridays....:p

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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2005, 05:51:47 pm »
That's easy Anthsco: Tune to the Sci-fi channel.  You have Stargate: SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, and Battlestar Galactica (new version).

People say we're going to go to a dark age of Star Trek.  I think people are exaggeratingly pessimistic, perhaps too much for Trek's own good.  I'm going to quote what I had said in another thread before this news:

To tell the truth, I was one of those who gave up on Enterprise.  But I'm thinking of going back to watching Enterprise again.  I guess it's not as bad as I thought.  I'd still like to think that Masao Okazaki's Pre-TOS website (Starfleet Museum) has a better timeline of Trek than Enterprise, but I'm sure I'll be entertained by Season 4 reruns and the upcoming newer episodes to not care about canon this or continuity that...

But don't grow pessimistic over Star Trek's future.  Enterprise might go on for a fifth season.  And even if it doesn't, we'll still have the novels, the past shows, the movies, the websites, etc.  Star Trek won't die out, and it's existance could be majorly fan-based.  I wonder however if the future of Trek is more of heading that way as we converse on this forum, with fanfilms such as Starship Exeter and Star Trek: New Voyages.  My main point here I'm trying to make is that Enterprise won't be Star Trek's death.  It might hurt, but like in Trek's World War III, it's not the end.  It's just a hurtle onto heading for a brighter future.  That's why I majorly like Star Trek; It's optimism.  People are really lacking it here, and I'm really disappointed.  Whether Enterprise is canceled or not, I believe Star Trek won't die out.  Not with a fan base as big as what Trek has.

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Offline Anthony Scott

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2005, 05:56:11 pm »
 ;D ;)

I was being overly dramatic and sarcastic...I already switch to the scifi cahnnel as it is, but you just try watching anything with a year old kid running around the house...

Still, I am a little disappointed.

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Offline Sandman3D

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2005, 06:11:03 pm »
Awwww, what a shame. NOT!! :P

Now maybe we'll get a good Trek show. :-\
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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2005, 06:46:16 pm »
I think Enterprise was about to get to its prime with neat plans like a Mirror Universe episode being a sequel to "The Tholian Web" (TOS) and a prequel to "Mirror, Mirror" (TOS)... That'd be fun to watch when it's done.

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2005, 07:03:07 pm »
Oh, was Enterprise still on?  I didn't notice, what with Sci-Fi channel showing good programs on Fridays. 

I'm glad the show's dead.  They just don't know how not to screw it up.  It seems like every time I start thinking, "this is pretty decent," they tack on a nasty little stinger at the end, like the Nazi Reman or the Romulans on Vulcan.  Star Trek needs to take a five-ten year break and then let some new people come in.  Right now, the franchise is just ruined.



Actually, I've had a little fantasy.  On the Enterprise-D, we see Barkley stepping out of the Holodeck.  Troi comes up, and says something along the lines of: "Alright, this has got to stop.  All those holo-novels about the Delta Quadrant and made up history are bad enough, but these stories about Kirk falling off a bridge and a Borg Queen and Remans, that's just going too far.  If you keep making up fantasies about the Enterprise, I'm going to recommend that you be committed."

Then couple of Romulan Warbirds show up and blow that ugly-ass ship to hell.  That was the only scene in the past few movies that I actually enjoyed.



No offense to TNG fans, it's just my personal subjective opinion, but I hated that ship from the first time I saw it.

Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2005, 07:10:54 pm »
I guess we share different tastes.  I like the Galaxy-class actually.  I was a TNG fan (still am), but wasn't a DS9 fan, and Voyager had its good moments in the first few seasons, and Enterprise was doing badly up-until recently.

Oh, and related threads concerning cancellation are here and here.

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Offline Merlinfmct87

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2005, 07:29:30 pm »
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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2005, 09:21:42 pm »
trek needs a break...we need to not do anything with it for about 10-20 years then revisit it.
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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2005, 10:05:43 pm »
We might as well help kill off the SFC community and other Star Trek-related communities then, Fury.  I don't believe Trek needed a break, at least nowhere near that long a break.  If a break must happen, a year or two tops.

What it needs is its original spirit back, the kind-of spirit people found in TOS, what connected with the audience since then.

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Offline FedRebel

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2005, 10:44:23 pm »
We might as well help kill off the SFC community and other Star Trek-related communities then, Fury.  I don't believe Trek needed a break, at least nowhere near that long a break.  If a break must happen, a year or two tops.

What it needs is its original spirit back, the kind-of spirit people found in TOS, what connected with the audience since then.

He probably means a break from TV and movies, something that Trek really needs

The blitzkrieg of Trek which we experienced over extended Trek's qaulity.

Trek can and and should continue through books/games. some of the authors are far more creative than the writers of live action Trek have been recently.

A 2 year break is a tad short considering that ENT would still be on peoples minds, a ten year break would serve many positive purposes

1. Time to find out what went wrong
2. Time to develop stricter continuity controls so "Trekqueda" won't be up in arms about continuity issues
3. Time to brainstorm new original ideas
4. Time for the fans to forget "Enterprise" and "Nemesis"

Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2005, 10:53:21 pm »
If you ask me, I'll still be optimistic about Trek's future as I had with Humanity's future.  But not everyone has:

But it isn't their biggest cash cow anymore, particularly on television and in the movie theaters, the two things that drive everything else in the franchise.  Plans for an eleventh Trek feature has been put on hiatus.  Rick Berman and Brannon Braga, the two creators of ENT who stepped back from the franchise this year to pursue other projects, are coming back to write the season finale, suggesting it could also be a series finale.  Les Moonves, co-president of Viacom, has suggested that the franchise needs a break.  This literally is it; Trek for the next ten or twenty years could hinge on whether or not the studio axes ENT in May.  Once that happens, it'll be like the dark ages of the 70s all over again, but even worse, because not only will the studio not be interested in re-starting the franchise, but a lot of fans won't, either.

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Offline SFLetoAtreides

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2005, 02:22:29 am »
  >:( I wish they wouldn't cancel Enterprise....not at this point in the Star Trek Timeline.The freaking Human/Romulan War is about to break out!!! The writers have tons of material now that they've finally gotten the show on track with the established Trek timeline! If I recall correctly, the war starts in 2156 and ends in 2160. If they stick with it, the war will give Enterprise the super elixir it needs....just like the Dominion War did with DS9! I can't believe that the Big Cheeses up there haven't put 2 and 2 together and figured out that Trek Wars= Better Ratings! If those bastards end Enterprise after ticking off their fan base with 3+ seasons of temporal crap and a c0(K tease finale of the beginnings of the Romulan war, they better damn well cover it in a movie or start another series that picks up where Enterprise left off or a lot of people are going to jump off the Star Trek fan train!  

I bet the producers over at Stargate and Battlestar Galactica are just loving this.........the end of the Golden Age of Star Trek! If Rick Berman and Brannon Braga don't do something soon to "unscrew" the Star Trek franchiase, these other two series are going to completely absorb their fan base!

Ohhhh....btw FedRebel.......so long as the Reman Warbird is used in any of the Star Trek games, people won't forget about Nemesis.....lol!

Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2005, 04:27:56 am »
They should end the show with Archer waking up right before his warp trials and realizing it was all a dream. Have him report to a hanger and climb into the tester smile to himself.........and say somethiing like " The human adventure is about to begin. " This would validate that NONE of it ( Enterprise ) ever happened and the sometime down the raod Paramount can get it right.

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Offline F9thDigi

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2005, 07:19:18 am »
This is bad news....Enterprise was getting good.  I've looked forward to every episode this season. How can absolute dross like that new religousstar galactica get made and Enterprise gets cancelled. 

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2005, 07:40:28 am »
I'm sorry guys ...  I'm really sick of people ruining the show down because they hated the ship ..  heck the ship was great  !!  many of you hated it because of what background ????

 :brickwall:

Yes there were some things hey did wrong ..   like constantly going into the future ( really bad move)...

But there were a number of things they did right !!

1.  the ship  ...  great move ...  ( I don't give a rats ass what you think !!)
2.  the development of the relationship between the Vulcans and the Humans ..  especially this las season.
3.  the development of the "Federation" ..  I'm personally looking forward to the next show ...  I thought the last few episodes were great ...  and I'm looking forward to see what happens next.

Simply because many of you hate the idea of applying better TV technology to the series and it was not developed to another "philosophy" ( not mentioning any other games or groups here) ... does not make the show wrong.

I guess I've had my fill lately of the all the negative  crap and being told to take a back seat while others who really know what's going on should be the ones to take over ...

frankly ....   BULL XXXX

Sorry guys ... I guess I'm just a bit bent out of sorts.

BTW ..  if any of you are interested in who the "Akira" was designed ..  and some of the thoughts on that subject ..  I can post it on another thread  ... ( this weekend)


And for what ever it's worth ..  I really am not that mad at any one ...  just sick of seeing something I really have loved get ran down  in the dirt.
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Offline S33K100

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2005, 01:01:49 pm »
I'm not gonna get into any of these arguments about the show and many of you liked it and you're entitled to your opinion. I hated it and can only say w00t! about the demise of Ent. This news has been the cherry-on-the-cake of my relatively pleasant day.

I'm off to watch some quality SciFi - Battlestar Galactica, SG-1 and maybe some old DS9 eps.
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Offline SFLetoAtreides

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2005, 02:06:44 pm »
I wasn't saying that I hate Enterprise per say F9thOlbuzzard! It's just that like all Trek series....the first few seasons are kind of slow because the writers are trying to better develop the characters. Unfortunately with Voyager and Enterprise, it took a little too long...... over 3 seasons for the series to get good and as a result, it turned a lot of people off. I want Enterprise to continue now that it's just starting to get to the stuff (ex. Human/Romulan War and the formation of the Federation). I just wish that the writers would have taken the opportunity to build up to it instead of farting around with all the "temporal cold war" crap. They really tripped over themselves doing that. If the writers had any common sense, they would have saved the "temporal cold war" plot for a futuristic Star Trek Series (like 27th or 29th century based series) and stuck to the basics in Enterprise.

Btw Digi.........the new Battlestar Galactica Series rocks! I'm getting sick and tired of hearing people complain about some of the changes that the writers made! I've followed the old series since I was in diapers and I have no qualms about some of the things that they changed around in the new one! Who cares if they said that Cyclons were created by humans instead of an alien race? Who cares if they changed Starbuck and Boomer's sex? Who cares if they made Boomer a Cylon? I think that some of these changes willl add some interesting twists on the series! Besides, the core story is still there! I just wish that some of the old school BSG fans would put aside their archaic ways, pull the poles out of their @$$es, and move into the 21st Century!

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2005, 02:32:32 pm »
I wasn't saying that I hate Enterprise per say F9thOlbuzzard! It's just that like all Trek series....the first few seasons are kind of slow because the writers are trying to better develop the characters. Unfortunately with Voyager and Enterprise, it took a little too long...... over 3 seasons for the series to get good and as a result, it turned a lot of people off. I want Enterprise to continue now that it's just starting to get to the stuff (ex. Human/Romulan War and the formation of the Federation). I just wish that the writers would have taken the opportunity to build up to it instead of farting around with all the "temporal cold war" crap. They really tripped over themselves doing that. If the writers had any common sense, they would have saved the "temporal cold war" plot for a futuristic Star Trek Series (like 27th or 29th century based series) and stuck to the basics in Enterprise.

 


ON these points we can agree ... ESPECIALLY THE "TEMPORAL COLD WAR" .....  ecch !!!    IMHO there were elements of the crew that could have been developed a bit better ... By that same token how could any of us forget the "Jim Kirk" who eventually got to the point where there was a woman in every port ...etc.  My point is simply that we don't flame the entire series.

BTW ... my response was not aimed at you sir ....  but rather "other elements" that tend to fry the entire show because of the ship ..

the ship, again IMHO,  was a good design and yes ..  it also hinted of the Enterprise to come ..  but not of the Akira per say...  ( there again ..  we can present some stuff later if needed ..  )

To give ya an idea of what I'm talking about in RL designs .....  does anyone else here besides me remember when the SR-71 was "developed" ... ??  Yet today we still don't have another jet that keeps up with it .. ( Yes I know we use other technology to do the same job ..  but that is not the point I'm driving at ) What I AM suggesting is that in much the same light as you see hull designs that may not change as frequently as the technology inside ....  IMHO the NX-1 is a great derivative from which the Connie could eventually evolve.

I try to give the writers a little more leniency rather than to be filled with anger because it does not fit other aspects of a gaming industry.

Thanks for taking the time to review this...  I hope we can agree on a few things ...

thanks
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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2005, 02:54:25 pm »
I just think its a crying shame they did not give it time to turn around.

 The shows have improved radically this year, and it was showing some promise. And i hope they at least give it a good send off.

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2005, 03:24:23 pm »
I just think its a crying shame they did not give it time to turn around.

 The shows have improved radically this year, and it was showing some promise. And i hope they at least give it a good send off.

you are so right !  Some of the best stuff they have produced.  IMHO that "Temporal War stuff hurt them really bad...  but they have done so much better !!

I wish I had and addy to send a letter to.  The jest of that letter would be exactly along these lines.

 :goodpost:
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Offline Wicked Zombie

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2005, 03:29:26 pm »
The problem with Star Trek these past few years hasn't been because it "needs a break". Trek doesn't need a break, the people running it do. The problem is, there hasn't been any new blood behind the scenes since DS9 was wrapping up. Enterprise only got good when some fresh people came in with their new ideas. Unfortunately, this happened after most of the fanbase had been turned off with the previous fiascos (ratings wise - I'm not getting into the actual story arguments).

Voyager, Insurrection, Nemesis, Enterprise - all of these were run by the same core people, and regardless of some noteworthy elements, weren't the greatest times in Trek's history. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to sound biased, I even liked these shows and movies for the most part. However, looking at the grand scheme of things, it's clear the writers/producers/whoever were straining for something original and rehashing the same old ideas.

Proof of that is with Enterprise's latest season - it didn't get anywhere truly good until new writers were pulled in who knew what they were doing and cared about the fans and Trek in general. Fan's shouldn't be mad at the show, or hate the ship, or even the characters - they should be miffed at the people in charge. Enterprise could've been great and could've kept the fans interested if the guys in charge just knew what they were doing. Everything has potential, it just takes some creativity and work to get anywhere with it.

Every strong incarnation of Trek has had a clear direction. TOS - exploration and humanity, TNG - A more modern take on the TOS formula, DS9 - the dark, realistic side of the galaxy. After that, things got blurred and lost their cohesion. What was Voyager about? Just a ship and crew lost lightyears from home. Enterprise? Even I can't think of anything definite on this one.

Enterprise didn't start out with any clear direction, it also didn't help matters when TPTB ignored continuity (Something Trekkers take very seriously). Things improved with the Xindi story, which gave the show a direction and a purpose. That's what the show needed from the beginning, but even that fizzled out into the usual rehashes. Honestly, how many "strange new worlds" are left to explore? That bit of Trek has been exhausted for years. Trek can't be a medium for telling random stories anymore, it needs something for the characters to focus around and stand up for. Flying through space, meeting new "aliens of the week" just doesn't cut it these days.

Hopefully something good will come out of this. Maybe Paramount will realize they need some new people running things and try to pay a bit more attention to the fanbase. If, for no other reason, than to ensure their cash flow stays steady.
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Offline FedRebel

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2005, 04:22:50 pm »
i know this is trange but has any reason been given for the cancelation ive been to the UPN site and startrek.com but it doesnt say why?

Neilson ratings

And the move to friday night made things worse


Quote
this would be a nice answer to give us trekkies and trekkers an answer to why they canceled a good show as it was really catching the hearts of older fans again

It was too little, too late

And the "older fans" are a minority which wouldn't be enough to turn the tide

The majority are casual science fiction fans who disliked ENT and moved on to other shows

Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2005, 04:48:21 pm »
WZ ...

I agree with a lot (but not all) of your analysis.  You have a very good nack for analysis and putting it into a sensable, logical response.

This last season is much of what most of us have looked for all along.  It was an excellent way of telling the story that lead up the Trek "legend" that we have all came to appreciate.

IMHO if there had been more of this ...  there would have been ample material to work with.  AGAIN .. IMHO ..  many of the writers and studios today for TV really don't have the resources that they need.  UPN is a "nothing" or "nobody" network ..  (according to some interviews I have heard personally from major players and actors when discussing other movies and TV presentations other than Trek shows).  As most of us know a lot of what happens depends upon the $$$  revenue generated. If Paramount placed this series with the network it did ..  what ever good has become of this .. was done on a budget that was limited at best.

I do agree that Trek is any thing but dead ..  I also believe that the series can only grow if, as WZ has suggested they resort to a wider review of its initial floor plan.

say for example

 ....  exploiting the upheaval with in the Romulans after  Nemesis ...  couple that with a near Civil war in the Klingon Empire ...  if ya developed that right ..  it could be done much like DS-9 series.  Develope the matters that lead up to the events surrounding Nemesis .. the people who were there  (both Romulans and Klingons.. ) and the atmosphere within the Federation.  Hmmm  lets thrown in a new twist with disturbing news about the Borg ! ...  shake well ....  add in some old fashion "exploration" stuff ..  and you have another series that could take a few seasons just to unfold this story !!

(OK ..  I'm just day dreaming !!!  )  but heck ..  it's fun !!

I love this stuff !!  I always have since the 60's !
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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2005, 10:39:39 pm »
IMO, The reason for the so-so or bad ratings is that Enterprise was not based on TNG. When there was 1st word of a new Trek series I was hoping for a some kind of Voyager, DS9 combo thing that might have involved Captain Riker and the USS Titan eventually. I think because of the pre-TOS idea, a lot of Trek fans gave up and Nemesis didn't do enough to turn that around. The momentum that Voyager might have had was lost.

Trek gaming will keep StarTrek alive for a long time to come, If I have anything to say about it..
..Because the game does not have to, and will not, remain the same..


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Offline S31-AlphaDiomed

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2005, 08:13:32 am »
Where did the Star Trek franchise go so wrong?  TOS movies 1 and 2 were awsome.  3, not so bad.  4 "the one with the whales" for those of us that are true trek fans, hated...  5, well, what can be said about "the final frontier", and then the Undiscovered Country - a valiant effort, and a good film, finally.... still, not enough fighting.  Our culture went through a strange period where killing on tv or film was taboo.  Even Arnold Schwartzenegger, nearly an action film god, wasn't killing anyone in the Terminator films....  blah blah blah.... thank someone we've grown out of that.

I have been generally disappointed with the TNG films.  Their series finale was a better epic than what has been done since.

DS9, well, didn't have the Enterprise did it... so I had a hard time getting into it.  Voyager did end up being a good show.  But then to make a show that was back in time (could we try to copy George Lucas a little more?) was a step backwards in progress.

I believe that they have not yet harnessed the full potential of the TNG series.  The stage is set, but I fear that they will shy away from what is an obvious storyline.  What Trek needs is a good "war journal."  There are certainly enough hostiles out there now, rogue Romulans, Remans, Cardies, 8472, Borg Rogue Drones, Lore (Data's other brother).... and yet I see them trying to copy a Search for Spock....

The stories that sell are the ones that show us why we love our heros.  Why is it that other movies, with no franchise value of their own, are huge box office smashes?  and yet Star Trek, with decades and generations of fans, cannot produce a quality production?

Who do we have to talk to?  Who do we write to?

I've seen better story lines in the RPG's of other Trek based fan sites than what the Paramount staff writers are able to conjure.

Thankfully, we have the games, and the mods of those games to allow us to create our own fantasy.  Through these things we are able to excersize some control over what we would like to see, and be a part of.

Thanks to all the modders,

and thank you for your time.

S31-AlphaDiomed

Offline Red_Green

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2005, 08:42:18 am »
Well the new Doctor Who will be starting up soon.  ;D  Too bad I don't live in the UK. I don't think ENt's problems can be blamed on low budget as there are low budget SCIFI that has been successful. Still 4 years in this day and age is a fairly long run.

 I didn't like the idea of pre-TOS. Especilly the way they did it with ship designs that were basically TNG or later. That in itself threw a wrench, then all the blazing time travel. I think that when writers don't have a good plot to engage you with, they try to cover up that shortcoming by dazzling you with a bunch of BS. Like were in the 24th century, nope the 21st, nope the 23rd. A few explosions, show over. What happened? Was there even a plot. Too much zipping all over makes things become a farce. Now I gave up long ago on ENT.
Sounds like the show may have been just starting to get settled down. Why wouldn't they have started  the good stories when the show was new? Thats the best time to get a following.



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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2005, 09:15:38 am »
When there was 1st word of a new Trek series I was hoping for a some kind of Voyager, DS9 combo thing that might have involved Captain Riker and the USS Titan eventually.


Not to be technical, but when there was first word of a new series (whist I was at Texas visiting my dad and at the same time occasionally playing SFC2 Dynaverse back around summer 2001), word of Nemesis and its storyline rarely spreaded out, if anything at all.  We never heard of any U.S.S. Titan and Riker's promotion to Captain.  But that's me being nitpicky. :) I miss those days though, Summer 2001 and backwards (in time).  Back when you can still speculate about Remus being a twin Romulan homeworld rather than have some strange species and make it desert-like and warm, etc.  Remus could've been another star system in TOS canon back in those days, however. *shrug* But I digress.

4 "the one with the whales" for those of us that are true trek fans, hated...  5, well, what can be said about "the final frontier", and then the Undiscovered Country - a valiant effort, and a good film, finally.... still, not enough fighting.  Our culture went through a strange period where killing on tv or film was taboo.  Even Arnold Schwartzenegger, nearly an action film god, wasn't killing anyone in the Terminator films....  blah blah blah.... thank someone we've grown out of that.


While I agree with the last part there for a bit, I kind-of disagree with statements on the Voyage (Well, sort-of) Home and wonder about the last TOS/TMP Trek film.  We have nitpicks, but overall TVH was a fantastic movie that meant to place the Trek crew to "today" (which back then is 1986, when I was born) as a "fish-out-of-water" story (although it would've been nice had Gene got that idea too in "Assignment: Earth" [TOS]).  They wanted something bigger than a plauge and have to travel back in time for a flower or two.  And overall, aside from all the hard-core Trek fans with their ears and ridges, TVH was really successful due to the non-Trek fan audience coming around and laughing at some moments too.
I won't go on Star Trek V.  It was an interesting concept overall yet poorly-done.
Star Trek VI wasn't about fighting and ratings like DS9 desperately was (which was exactly why it's popular around here, the action.  While action and fighting is nice, especially in games, it was sadly overused in DS9 to become what I truely wouldn't call Trek.  It still had its nice moments, but wasn't enough in my view to be good).  It was about achieving peace with the Klingons, not petty wars.  Maybe it's an SFB thing around here... *sigh* Keep in mind I didn't play SFB at all, only heard of it.

Quote
I have been generally disappointed with the TNG films.  Their series finale was a better epic than what has been done since.


I don't know.  I guess you're right on this one, save First Contact.  Besides choosing a ship design that seemed a little fan boy-ish in my opinion (at least nowadays), it was a great movie that gave it a little dark aspect without abandoning the optimism of Trek.  That's what connects me with Trek nowadays: It's optimism.  Optimism that we're going to be A-OK in the future.  I think that's what first connected with the audience around Trek's "birth" too, while providing great adventures.  That is, aside from the other reasons, reasons being space battles (again, DS9).

Quote
DS9, well, didn't have the Enterprise did it... so I had a hard time getting into it.
 

Well, it proved it didn't need the Enterprise to be successful, and aside from TOS, Enterprise proved you could have the Enterprise (of some kind) and fail miserably.

Quote
Voyager did end up being a good show.
 

Well, it was at first.  I think up until Season 3 it had its moments to be well worth watching it.  But I think without a "babe" on the show it would've been canceled.  Enterprise copied Voyager that way and it didn't help, even if at a moment or two some of these fans attracted by lust would've been celebrating during an episode or two that really turned me off of today's Trek.

Quote
I believe that they have not yet harnessed the full potential of the TNG series.  The stage is set, but I fear that they will shy away from what is an obvious storyline.  What Trek needs is a good "war journal."  There are certainly enough hostiles out there now, rogue Romulans, Remans, Cardies, 8472, Borg Rogue Drones, Lore (Data's other brother).... and yet I see them trying to copy a Search for Spock....


I think we've been in TNG for too long.  Some books would've done that just as well for you.  But I find a bit of trouble in successfully making a TV, let alone a movie in the Pre-TOS timeline, at least if we expected the kind-of "assumed canon" everyone thought about (even I), something like Masao Okazaki's Starfleet Museum for example. 

Quote
I've seen better story lines in the RPG's of other Trek based fan sites than what the Paramount staff writers are able to conjure.


I think books are what make Trek today, ever since a decade ago.  I belive they potentially have better stories than TV episodes of Trek or about half of those RPG websites (if not most or all)... No offense of course since they can conjure out great stories themselves.  But my point is, there are great books out there both old and new, such as an alternate view into the TNG timeline's "Mirror Universe" that mirror's TOS's episode in a great way, or Greg Cox's stories involving Gary Seven, or the Eugenics Wars.


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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2005, 10:33:59 am »
Though the show was dripping with humanism, I tryied to watch it when I could to get the background story, but as soon as they desicrated the mindmeld by equating it with homosexuality, that is when I stopped watching. I know alot of people that quit watching after that episode.

I have been getting into SG-1, I think it is the TOS of our time. The writers were smart to make the show episodic, where a new audience could start watching at any time and not feel like they were missing something. SG-1 explores a new planet each episode, deals with an ethical issue, and some light philosophy.

BSG has been good so far because it hasn't attempted to shove the minority point of view of current social issues in my face like Enterpise. If I want that I will listen to NPR or watch CNN.

Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2005, 10:57:13 am »
I think mind melds have been TOS-ified again thanks to a Vulcan story arc both of us missed, Intermech.

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Offline CC22

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2005, 03:55:44 pm »
 :'(  ??? >:(

Well i hope those who slammed the show are happy...

It was not a bad show. Some of the comments Ive seen here and other boards typified the almost trendy Trek bashing of late. Well you got nothing to bash anymore.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2005, 04:12:28 pm »
YUP ..  and there are some who deem themsleves so knowledgeable to even believe that the NX-1 never existed ....

LOL ..   such small minds.

IMHO  ...  the older versions of the Federation designs that are similar to some of the Vulcan designs  ( see the pre TOS stuff that Azel has done ...  ) would be exactly that  ...  very Early  if not some of the "FIRST" major steps in warp ships after the ship flown in "First Contact".  The NX-1 IMHO was exactly what it claimed to be ..  the first warp 5 ship.

I also agree that I hope these select individuals who have set themselves up so high and mighty are now happy ..

Some people never learn.

With all of the constant bitching and belly aching that they do about the game, movies, and the TV series ...  who would WANT to support an audience like that ????
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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2005, 04:21:23 pm »
The NX-01 may have existed, but not under the name Enterprise..

In TMP in my other posting, I show the linage of the Enterprise from the wooden ship to the NCC-1701..

In TNG, they also show the Deadelous Class Enterprise as part of the lineage.. as such, no previous canon reference for the NX-01 being the Enterprise exists... It was a B&B creation of the Akira Class with the warp nacells inverted.. a hull design 200+ years before it was created..

As for Enterprise keeping canon with Trek Timeline, it blew away about 70% of established canon.. as such, i can concede that the NX-01 Enterprise was part of the Mirror Universe as well as the Tech that they displayed, but in the TOS to TNG timeline or regular universe, the NX-01 Enterprise never existed..

as for the show itself, if you ignore all the blatant errors in established canon or kept in mind that it is the mirror universe, then it was quite entertaining to watch.
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Offline Sochin

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2005, 04:23:09 pm »
For god sake its cancelled, I personally liked the show, GET OVER IT!!

Offline CC22

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2005, 04:35:23 pm »
YUP ..  and there are some who deem themsleves so knowledgeable to even believe that the NX-1 never existed ....

LOL ..   such small minds.

IMHO  ...  the older versions of the Federation designs that are similar to some of the Vulcan designs  ( see the pre TOS stuff that Azel has done ...  ) would be exactly that  ...  very Early  if not some of the "FIRST" major steps in warp ships after the ship flown in "First Contact".  The NX-1 IMHO was exactly what it claimed to be ..  the first warp 5 ship.

I also agree that I hope these select individuals who have set themselves up so high and mighty are now happy ..

Some people never learn.

With all of the constant bitching and belly aching that they do about the game, movies, and the TV series ...  who would WANT to support an audience like that ????

I agree.

Crazy isn't it  :-\.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2005, 06:14:11 pm »
The NX-01 may have existed, but not under the name Enterprise..

In TMP in my other posting, I show the linage of the Enterprise from the wooden ship to the NCC-1701..


Those picts were inconclusive ....  not of "every ship named Enterprise"  ..  but that they were ALL called Enterprise .....  As well a major point over looked ...  DATES ..  hmmm  I  don't suppose you consider some MAJOR faux pas there ....

As you are aware I'm sure ..  there are some MAJOR time line problems with the beginning of TREK to start with ..  starting with the WW-3 dates .. hmmmm  no one seems to have any problems with that.  I can't help but to wonder why all of the griping about Enterprise ... and total silence about other larger mistakes in other areas of Trek History.  Perhaps the simple truth of the matter is that some people would gripe if they were hung with a new rope ...  Absolutely nothing suits them. 

The simple fact of the matter is that all TV programs have their problems ..  if you want to focus on that sort of thing long enough.  Infact ...  while you are busy raising all this XXXX over everything about this movie ...  lets get right down to the probability of a warp ship with in the next 100 years ...  and the technology to build a transporter system that can move living things while holding the pattern in storage...  with heart rate blood flow etc .;...

see my point....

If that is what you want ... we can play that game.

But .....  in truth ...  what would be gained from it ?

I submitt to you that aside from the Temporal War thingy .... and some other "indiscretions" ..  that the program has came a LONG WAY !  and in the end as it was just showing signs of maturity ..  it was canceled.

I hope that some how we can get past those who's sight is so lacking and narrow that we can hope and build for a future TREK that will be responsible to the "SPIRIT" of Star Trek ...  and "Boldly go!"
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Offline Wicked Zombie

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2005, 06:27:44 pm »
Looks like one of the Enterprise aircraft carriers is missing in that TMP lineup too. I'm betting those WW II veterans are gonna be miffed when they find out they never existed...

There has never been a Daedalus class Enterprise. There's also the fact that the Ent-C and Ent-B models on the TNG wall were very different to their 'real' versions. Going by the same logic as the "it never existed" argument, I suppose the B and C were totally different ships...

Most 'established canon' is hardly established and hardly canon. A big chunk of supposedly canon Trek is really just semi-true facts and behind the scenes info that have become so popular, it's been accepted as canon by the fans even if those facts have never been shown on-screen. While Enterprise may have mucked up the timeline, shaken a few supposedly set-in-stone Trek events, and left a bad taste for some, it wasn't anymore contradictory to canon than any other Trek series. It did, however, get more flak when something was contradicted as it not only had TOS history to contend with, but the entire Trek timeline.

A person doesn't have to make up some crazy explanation as to why it never existed or why nobody mentioned it before, you can simply ignore it. Like I do with 90% of Voyager...and most Trek fans and ship critics...
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Offline Chris Johnson

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2005, 10:00:32 pm »
For arguments on canon and stuff, I ask of you to click here.  Just my two cents on canon.  However: I believe that we're digressing from the main topic at hand while we're discussing canon.  However, I think most everyone had their say, so if nobody has anything to add, I ask respectfully we let this thread drop like a fly.  There's two others concerning Enterprise's cancellation anyhow.

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Offline Red_Green

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2005, 12:12:06 am »
Trek discussions always get heated LOL.  I think this cancellation could be reframed into a positive. I mean 4 years is a good run. It doesn't mean the show failed or anything. I am more a casual Fan of Trek but also of all SCi-FI. I heard rumors that even Andromeda may be in its last year. That is a popular show. But even so, the episodes  of Andromeda I have seen lately are a drop off from season 1 and 2.
Its hard to maintain quality when there has to be a new episode every week. I don't know much about ENT, but in Andromeda, the writers come and go, producers come and go, actors come and go.  So while they still call season 5 of Andromeda the same show. Its reaaly a different product from Andromeda season 1Same with Trek, The different Trek shows are in many ways different products.

I do wonder. I mean in an interview with a producer of Andromeda (one fron special features on a DVD set) It was mentioned that with the Internet chat, that procucers can get immediate response to shows that just ran. Thus they could see what fans liked or didn;t like. I wonder if B& B used feedback like that as a tool to gauge fan response or if they were just going to do whatever there interpretation personal interpretation of Pre-TOS was.


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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2005, 11:42:01 am »
Interesting point RG ...  I cant help but to wonder if the network junkies have folk that review Trek and SFC communities like this ..  and watch for reactions to see how we think on such matters.

All in all  .. I do hope that some good will come of this ..  perhaps even a "resurrection" of the series ...  and maybe even the return of DS-9 and a new SFC based game !  ( ok ...  that's stretching it ..  but if ya got to aim high ...  let's go for all the marbles! )
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2005, 03:40:23 pm »
I don't know if this will help, But theres a poll here

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6902611#survey

74% want the show to continue.

stephen
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Offline Starforce2

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2005, 09:03:25 am »
well, we all know that in hollywood bad press makes you more famous than good press. Same with cotnraversey. You don't hear of actors delivering meals on wheels to the needy, only crashing their wheels while drunk. I think This is a ploy, a stunt, perhaps to get attention back to enterprise now that is is being somewhat improved as far as timeline compliance is concerned. Even those who've disconnected themselves from the community will have their attention grabbed. I rmeeber everyone was worried Voyager wasn't going to be back for a 4th year. I remember a time where that was suppossedly not going to ever be a startrek 10, as well. Everyone should still show support if you support the show ofcourse, but I wouldn't get to worried this early in the game.

Offline Centurus

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2005, 09:26:50 am »
well, we all know that in hollywood bad press makes you more famous than good press. Same with cotnraversey. You don't hear of actors delivering meals on wheels to the needy, only crashing their wheels while drunk. I think This is a ploy, a stunt, perhaps to get attention back to enterprise now that is is being somewhat improved as far as timeline compliance is concerned. Even those who've disconnected themselves from the community will have their attention grabbed. I rmeeber everyone was worried Voyager wasn't going to be back for a 4th year. I remember a time where that was suppossedly not going to ever be a startrek 10, as well. Everyone should still show support if you support the show ofcourse, but I wouldn't get to worried this early in the game.

You know what StarForce?  I like your outlook and perspective on the whole situation.  +1 karma.
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Offline Davey-E

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2005, 05:18:54 pm »
Atreidies was right,
They were just getting to the good stuff,

The Earth - Rom wars would of been great and would of boosted ratings just like the Dom wars did for DS9

Silly Gits, The've blown it

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Offline Anthony Scott

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2005, 04:05:42 pm »
~peeks out from under table, cradling little Anthony~

Cripes, I NEVER  thought that I would be starting this kind of discussion just by announcing that one of my fave scifi shows was being cancelled...VERY cool indeed.

I liked enterprise, it was just starting to get good what with all the main characters finally fitting into their roles and the stories getting better and better.

Who knows, maybe another network will do to Enterprise what Scifi channel did with Andromeda...Now, if you will excuse me, I have a year old little human to explain all this to...

~ducks back under table~

 ;) :D ;D

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Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2005, 11:02:55 pm »
The problem with Star Trek these past few years hasn't been because it "needs a break". Trek doesn't need a break, the people running it do. The problem is, there hasn't been any new blood behind the scenes since DS9 was wrapping up. Enterprise only got good when some fresh people came in with their new ideas. Unfortunately, this happened after most of the fanbase had been turned off with the previous fiascos (ratings wise - I'm not getting into the actual story arguments).

On this we agree, and I've said the same thing before.

There was nothing wrong with Enterprise that a batch of good writing couldn't have solved.  Trek can take as long a break as it wants -- 1 year, 10 years, 20 years -- and if the writing is no better than the first few years of this show then it will still tank.  On the other hand, start a new show a year from now with good writing, and it will likely do well.

And yes, the episodes this year have been much better.  I'd actually prefer another prequel (Captain Pike, anyone?) rather than a follow-on of TNG, but tastes differ.

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Re: OT-ENTERPRISE has been cancelled!
« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2005, 12:16:04 am »
The reason so many people, myself included, say that Trek needs a break is because there seems to be a sort of culture that has set in the production staff that needs to be totally broken.  That means all the people, from the executive producer to the writers to the set designers, need to go.  That probably also includes the corporate executives who have there own expectations of the franchise.  New people need to come in who have no loyalty or connection to the old guard at all.  There's just a certain blandness and predictability to Star Trek that hasn't changed since TNG.  It seems that the franchise is just stuck.  Even when they try to break out of it, the show still feels the same.  The past couple of seasons were better than the first, there were some pretty good episodes, but over-all the show is still mediocre at best.  There's just no real creativity or cleverness.  Right now I fear that, even with new folks, the expectations of what Trek is supposed to be would get in the way.  The show needs to fade into the past a little bit, so new producers and writers won't be under the shadow of Berman and his work.  Just replacing them wouldn't be enough, there needs to be some distance so they can make a truly fresh start.