Topic: <sigh>...Ya know, not to long ago...

[FPF-Wanderer]

...right after the end of GW4, we were all patting ourselves on the back for getting along so well.  No real flamage between the sides, RM's dealt with player problems with little fuss, springer chat was slapped down by the respective leaderships...I guess it was too much to hope that it would last.

I'm vastly disappointed.  In all of us.

I'm disappointed that all of the new players that we worked so hard to get to come and play on D2 have to see us at our worst.

I'm disappointed that Alliance players allowed their tempers to get the better of them and aired issues in public instead of working on solutions privately.

I'm disappointed that Coalition players didn't stop to think that they would have been in the same frame of mind as the Alliance if the issue at hand had happened to them.

I'm disappointed that that ISC players felt the need respond with insults, instead of trying to understand the issue from the Alliance perspective.

I'm disappointed that the server admin chose to exacerbate the problem instead of seeking an amiable solution.

I'm disappointed that certain Coalition members could not be team players and abide by the terms of the treaty that their team agreed to in good faith.  D2 campaigns are by nature a team game.  You want to play for yourself, go to GSA and leave us alone.

Most of all, I'm disappointed in my own lack of leadership.  I should have grabbed this tiger by the tail immediately and tried to work privately with the principals involved to solve the issue instead of letting it spiral out of control.  I should have told my RM's to STFU and let me handle it.  I should have protested the ISC and Coalition being able to sign a treaty*, as it contravenes the spirit of the RP nature of the campaign, and now, coupled with the ISC let loose upon the Gorn, has only served to heighten feelings of Alliance persecution*.  I should have been more vigilant in my responsibilities.  I tried, but it wasn't enough, and I knew it wasn't.

*Before any ISC player brings up the Alliance/Coalition Treaty, or anyone scorns the use of the term "feelings of Alliance persecution", let me say this;  1. The terms of the A/C treaty made sure there were "free-fire" zones all through the NZ that the Alliance and Coalition could fight over, so that the ISC would not be wiped out in the first week of the server by both of us concentrating solely on them; also, that I, as Alliance SAC, ignored the more strident calls from some in the Alliance to completly wipe the ISC from the map (and I get the feeling that Will had similar thoughts, although we didn't talk directy about it);  2.  During the first few days of the server, the ISC deepstiked nine Alliance bases, and only three Coalition.  What does that say to you?  I know what it says to me.

After SG04 concludes, I think I'll take a vacation for awhile, and let all this dross die away in my mind.  Maybe by the time I come back we'll all have come to our senses.

-Wanderer

[F9thRyker]

I'm disappointed that all of the new players that we worked so hard to get to come and play on D2 have to see us at our worst.

This is only my second Dynaverse 2 campaign- is this indicative of the usual shenanigans here? Are campaigns usually filled with venom and hypocritical situations like this?

I didnt see any on GW4, that was a good, stable campaign. Had a lot of fun.

Now, one little stealth rule has completely aggravated virtually everyone on this server. First the Alliance players, and now it's spilled over to the Coalition and ISC.


A shame. It was starting out so well, too 


[And people wonder why D2 isnt recruiting that many new players]

[Grim]

...right after the end of GW4, we were all patting ourselves on the back for getting along so well.  No real flamage between the sides, RM's dealt with player problems with little fuss, springer chat was slapped down by the respective leaderships...I guess it was too much to hope that it would last.

I'm vastly disappointed.  In all of us.

I'm disappointed that all of the new players that we worked so hard to get to come and play on D2 have to see us at our worst.

I'm disappointed that Alliance players allowed their tempers to get the better of them and aired issues in public instead of working on solutions privately.

I'm disappointed that Coalition players didn't stop to think that they would have been in the same frame of mind as the Alliance if the issue at hand had happened to them.

I'm disappointed that that ISC players felt the need respond with insults, instead of trying to understand the issue from the Alliance perspective.

I'm disappointed that the server admin chose to exacerbate the problem instead of seeking an amiable solution.

I'm disappointed that certain Coalition members could not be team players and abide by the terms of the treaty that their team agreed to in good faith.  D2 campaigns are by nature a team game.  You want to play for yourself, go to GSA and leave us alone.

Most of all, I'm disappointed in my own lack of leadership.  I should have grabbed this tiger by the tail immediately and tried to work privately with the principals involved to solve the issue instead of letting it spiral out of control.  I should have told my RM's to STFU and let me handle it.  I should have protested the ISC and Coalition being able to sign a treaty*, as it contravenes the spirit of the RP nature of the campaign, and now, coupled with the ISC let loose upon the Gorn, has only served to heighten feelings of Alliance persecution*.  I should have been more vigilant in my responsibilities.  I tried, but it wasn't enough, and I knew it wasn't.

*Before any ISC player brings up the Alliance/Coalition Treaty, or anyone scorns the use of the term "feelings of Alliance persecution", let me say this;  1. The terms of the A/C treaty made sure there were "free-fire" zones all through the NZ that the Alliance and Coalition could fight over, so that the ISC would not be wiped out in the first week of the server by both of us concentrating solely on them; also, that I, as Alliance SAC, ignored the more strident calls from some in the Alliance to completly wipe the ISC from the map (and I get the feeling that Will had similar thoughts, although we didn't talk directy about it);  2.  During the first few days of the server, the ISC deepstiked nine Alliance bases, and only three Coalition.  What does that say to you?  I know what it says to me.

After SG04 concludes, I think I'll take a vacation for awhile, and let all this dross die away in my mind.  Maybe by the time I come back we'll all have come to our senses.

-Wanderer

Well said wanderer

[Bonk]

Yeah, people seem extra cranky and picky this time around... chalk it up to the winter "blahs" I guess - too much snow...

Yes, less deadly seriousness, and more fun will keep our new players around much better. It is just a game. Myself, I'm deadly serious about the code end of things but when it comes to playing the game, whatever the setup, underdog or not - I'll play happily - its SFC!

[Dizzy]

Yes, less deadly seriousness

thats a big part of the problem. Huge in fact.

[FPF-DieHard]

Yes, less deadly seriousness

thats a big part of the problem. Huge in fact.

Put a VC on every kill and this surprises you?   

[Dizzy]

is that positive or negative critisizm?

[FPF-DieHard]

is that positive or negative critisizm?

Just an observation.   The setup of the server encourages people to take things very seriously.

By the way folks, this "flame war" is SO tame compared to ones from past servers.

[Corbomite]

I'm disappointed that that ISC players felt the need respond with insults, instead of trying to understand the issue from the Alliance perspective.

We have been trying to understand the perspective of this community for over five years now. The ISC have never recovered from the backlash of CW5. Many players never came back or switched races as it was clear the ISC would never be welcome on any server at all except as doormats for the Fed/Kling contingent. Tracey basically called us liars and cheats. What are we supposed to do, smile sweetly and thank her for yet another kick in the nuts?

[Kroma BaSyl]

is that positive or negative critisizm?

Just an observation.   The setup of the server encourages people to take things very seriously.

By the way folks, this "flame war" is SO tame compared to ones from past servers.

Sorry DH but I have to disagree, the setup is inmaterial to how some people react and how seriously they take servers. Some people are just not capable of playing for the sheer joy of it, doesn't matter what the setup is, the bitchin and moaning never ends.

I blame it on a lack of true leadership on all sides. To many RMs view their role as protecting the interest of their team over the interest of the community and game as a whole. This and some basic administration is what they should be concerned about, not constantly trying to gain some small advantage for their team. If they concentrated on positive tactics for boosting the moral of their teamates and on setting positive example of community spirit instead of pettie gamesmanship, I think more people would be having fun whether they are winning or losing. Negativity breeds negativity and is always a destructive force.

[Kroma BaSyl]

What are we supposed to do, smile sweetly and thank her for yet another kick in the nuts?

Yes, it is called taking the high road. It has to start somewhere, why not here?

[Corbomite]

What are we supposed to do, smile sweetly and thank her for yet another kick in the nuts?

Yes, it is called taking the high road. It has to start somewhere, why not here?

I'd be glad to if the road hadn't been littered with landmines.

[FPF-DieHard]

Sorry DH but I have to disagree, the setup is inmaterial to how some people react and how seriously they take servers. Some people are just not capable of playing for the sheer joy of it, doesn't matter what the setup is, the bitchin and moaning never ends.

I respectfully disagree.   GW4's "harmony" I greatly attribute to a setup that nobody felt screwed, rules were fair and easily understood, and the shiplist was the most balanced I'd ever seen on a Dyna.

And you could loose 12 CBs withouth throwing the whole server  

[Kroma BaSyl]

What are we supposed to do, smile sweetly and thank her for yet another kick in the nuts?

Yes, it is called taking the high road. It has to start somewhere, why not here?

I'd be glad to if the road hadn't been littered with landmines.

The question was really more retorical and not necessarily directed solely at you, but rather at all of the so called leaders of this community..

[Capt Jeff]

Sorry DH but I have to disagree, the setup is inmaterial to how some people react and how seriously they take servers. Some people are just not capable of playing for the sheer joy of it, doesn't matter what the setup is, the bitchin and moaning never ends.

I blame it on a lack of true leadership on all sides. To many RMs view their role as protecting the interest of their team over the interest of the community and game as a whole. This and some basic administration is what they should be concerned about, not constantly trying to gain some small advantage for their team. If they concentrated on positive tactics for boosting the moral of their teamates and on setting positive example of community spirit instead of pettie gamesmanship, I think more people would be having fun whether they are winning or losing. Negativity breeds negativity and is always a destructive force.

BINGO  !!!!

[Kroma BaSyl]

I respectfully disagree.   GW4's "harmony" I greatly attribute to a setup that nobody felt screwed, rules were fair and easily understood, and the shiplist was the most balanced I'd ever seen on a Dyna.

Balance is an illusion, and was not the reason for the "harmony". However, you have hinted at the true reason, which was better and clearer communication. We will never be successful at maintaining community harmony with shiplists, server rules or technical silver bullets. It is the respect, trust and relationships with and for each other that will keep us together.

And you could loose 12 CBs withouth throwing the whole server 

Not for lack of effort or alcohol.

[Dizzy]

Sorry DH but I have to disagree, the setup is inmaterial to how some people react and how seriously they take servers. Some people are just not capable of playing for the sheer joy of it, doesn't matter what the setup is, the bitchin and moaning never ends.

I blame it on a lack of true leadership on all sides. To many RMs view their role as protecting the interest of their team over the interest of the community and game as a whole. This and some basic administration is what they should be concerned about, not constantly trying to gain some small advantage for their team. If they concentrated on positive tactics for boosting the moral of their teamates and on setting positive example of community spirit instead of pettie gamesmanship, I think more people would be having fun whether they are winning or losing. Negativity breeds negativity and is always a destructive force.

BINGO  !!!!

+Karma

[GDA-S'Cipio]

And you could loose 12 CBs withouth throwing the whole server  

Burn!!!!!!     



-S'Cipio

[KBFLordKrueg]

+ 5 Karma to you, Wanderer, for saying what needed to be said. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I blame it on a lack of true leadership on all sides. To many RMs view their role as protecting the interest of their team over the interest of the community and game as a whole. This and some basic administration is what they should be concerned about, not constantly trying to gain some small advantage for their team. If they concentrated on positive tactics for boosting the moral of their teamates and on setting positive example of community spirit instead of pettie gamesmanship, I think more people would be having fun whether they are winning or losing. Negativity breeds negativity and is always a destructive force.

Exactly Kroma!

When I look at the words "Race Moderator"  I think of a person whos responsibility it is to moderate the behavior of those playing their respective race.  This would be the resolution of disputes between their race and others and keeping their group in line, and listening to their player concerns and taking a rational and constructive approach on the RM forums in hopes of a resolution agreed upon by all, but even if such a resolution is not possible, to maintain a clear head and inspiring their forces to continue on in the spirit of sportsmanship and not gamesmanship.

As things have stood lately, I'd say "RM" should be replaced by "RA" meaning Race Attorney to more accurately reflect the attitude, of arguing points for their own clients benefit.  This attitude seems bent on convincing the "jury" of the community in general that their clients were wronged and need to seek maximum damages for percieved slights and injuries factual or not, rather than working within the circle of moderators that is supposed to provide guidance and levelheadedness.

But many players who are not RMs have contributed to this by addressing their complaints to the public forums rather than through the RMs on their own private forums.  Whether this is a lack of faith in their RMs abilities, the system itself, or just a personal need to vent regardless of any damage to the community, I am not sure.  I think we all have our moments, honestly, and that we always will.  However, during peak crisis times, meaning during servers themselves, I think everyone should make it a priority to make more of an attempt to go through the official channels of their RMs. 

[762_XC]

As much as I credit any server admin for trying something out-of-the-box, I sincerely hope this is the last 3-sided campaign ever.

It just never works.

[FPF-DieHard]

As much as I credit any server admin for trying something out-of-the-box, I sincerely hope this is the last 3-sided campaign ever.

It just never works.

NO!!!!  "AOTK2:  The Wrath of J'inn" has to be 3-4 sides!!!

(J'inn, we'll talk about the 4th side later . . . .)

[KAT J'inn]

As much as I credit any server admin for trying something out-of-the-box, I sincerely hope this is the last 3-sided campaign ever.

It just never works.

NO!!!!  "AOTK2:  The Wrath of J'inn" has to be 3-4 sides!!!

(J'inn, we'll talk about the 4th side later . . . .)

Smart J'inn a/k/a Ren:    Don't do it J'inn!!

Stupid J'inn a/k/a Stimpy:   But gosh it sounds like fun.

Ren:    STIMPY YOU EEEEDIOT!!!  *SMACK*  Die Hard always gets you in trouble.

Stimpy:   But gee Ren I just wanna have fun.

Ren:  Go have fun with your nose goblins and quit getting into trouble.

Stimpy:   Boring!

Ren:   Well you could go play with your litterbox.

Stimpy:    JOY!!!!!!!!!!!!  <scampers off>   Ohhh Die Hard!   Let's talk shop in my new and improved catbox office.

Ren:  STIMPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hexx]

Oh NO You Don't

The Lyrans were allied with J'inn on THIS server.

We're not making the same mistake again.

[FPF-DieHard]

Oh NO You Don't

The Lyrans were allied with J'inn on THIS server.

We're not making the same mistake again.

F-G-H versus K-R versus L-I-Z.   
Econs of 4-4-4 versus 6-6 versus 4-4-4

What can POSSIBLY go wrong?   

[Commander Maxillius]

me with skill flying ISC?


to make it fair though, I'll only fly early era ships, the ones that can move

[Hexx]

Oh NO You Don't

The Lyrans were allied with J'inn on THIS server.

We're not making the same mistake again.

F-G-H versus K-R versus L-I-Z.   
Econs of 4-4-4 versus 6-6 versus 4-4-4

What can POSSIBLY go wrong?   

So J'inns flying Gorn I assume?

[Sirgod]

OK everyone, It's good to see alot of Ligth heardedness Going on after what could have potentially A problem. One of these Days I'd love to get back on a server with you all If I can ever get past my Firewall.

But I want everyone to see what this Server has done to Poor Poor Dizzy. Personaly I appload you all from what I've heard of the sportsmanship, But poor Dizzy... Sniff.



Even Kroma has had a Hard time with this.



Stephen

[Pestalence_XC]

OK everyone, It's good to see alot of Ligth heardedness Going on after what could have potentially A problem. One of these Days I'd love to get back on a server with you all If I can ever get past my Firewall.

But I want everyone to see what this Server has done to Poor Poor Dizzy. Personaly I appload you all from what I've heard of the sportsmanship, But poor Dizzy... Sniff.



Even Kroma has had a Hard time with this.



Stephen

Stephen, why not just turn the Firewall off to play on the server or ask someone here with a similar firewall on how to set up?

[Sirgod]

I said Firewall and I meant Router. My Bad. I have khalees machine running through my Router also, Or else I would just Bypass It.

Stephen

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I said Firewall and I meant Router. My Bad. I have khalees machine running through my Router also, Or else I would just Bypass It.

Stephen

What kind of router do you have?  I currently play through a Linksys router, with two other computers attached.

-S'Cipio

[Sirgod]

I have a WRT54G router if this helps. The problem is, I have to Mirror my IP To get any access with any Combination of Multible PCs.

For the longest time, I thought this was Due to running wireless, but even with wires Connected,  I seem to have the same Problem Behind alot of online games. Khalee BTW doesn't have a wireless card and is running win2k , I'm on Win XP home. I could put Pro or Corp either one on though If need be.

The other Problem I have found with the set up, is File sharing amongst my Home Network (Even when the wifes PC was hooked up) , was disconnected. Couldn't share anything.

If this helps, I would Greatly appreciate It more then you guys can Imagine.

Stephen

[el-Karnak]

...right after the end of GW4, we were all patting ourselves on the back for getting along so well.  No real flamage between the sides, RM's dealt with player problems with little fuss, springer chat was slapped down by the respective leaderships...I guess it was too much to hope that it would last.

I'm vastly disappointed.  In all of us.

I'm disappointed that all of the new players that we worked so hard to get to come and play on D2 have to see us at our worst.

I'm disappointed that Alliance players allowed their tempers to get the better of them and aired issues in public instead of working on solutions privately.

I'm disappointed that Coalition players didn't stop to think that they would have been in the same frame of mind as the Alliance if the issue at hand had happened to them.

I'm disappointed that that ISC players felt the need respond with insults, instead of trying to understand the issue from the Alliance perspective.

I'm disappointed that the server admin chose to exacerbate the problem instead of seeking an amiable solution.

I'm disappointed that certain Coalition members could not be team players and abide by the terms of the treaty that their team agreed to in good faith.  D2 campaigns are by nature a team game.  You want to play for yourself, go to GSA and leave us alone.

Most of all, I'm disappointed in my own lack of leadership.  I should have grabbed this tiger by the tail immediately and tried to work privately with the principals involved to solve the issue instead of letting it spiral out of control.  I should have told my RM's to STFU and let me handle it.  I should have protested the ISC and Coalition being able to sign a treaty*, as it contravenes the spirit of the RP nature of the campaign, and now, coupled with the ISC let loose upon the Gorn, has only served to heighten feelings of Alliance persecution*.  I should have been more vigilant in my responsibilities.  I tried, but it wasn't enough, and I knew it wasn't.

*Before any ISC player brings up the Alliance/Coalition Treaty, or anyone scorns the use of the term "feelings of Alliance persecution", let me say this;  1. The terms of the A/C treaty made sure there were "free-fire" zones all through the NZ that the Alliance and Coalition could fight over, so that the ISC would not be wiped out in the first week of the server by both of us concentrating solely on them; also, that I, as Alliance SAC, ignored the more strident calls from some in the Alliance to completly wipe the ISC from the map (and I get the feeling that Will had similar thoughts, although we didn't talk directy about it);  2.  During the first few days of the server, the ISC deepstiked nine Alliance bases, and only three Coalition.  What does that say to you?  I know what it says to me.

After SG04 concludes, I think I'll take a vacation for awhile, and let all this dross die away in my mind.  Maybe by the time I come back we'll all have come to our senses.

-Wanderer

Did SG4 turn out like a SFC3 server? :O

Anyway, I know there's two sides to every story so I hope it all worked out in the end. 

But, I would like to respectfully add to the historical record of the server that was SG4 that I bear witness to a player that did show leadership at the beginnings of SG4 that is not readily apparent in the public domain.  FPF-FatherTed took the time to listen when it counted. For that, I believe he helped out the campaign.

If FatherTed needs vouching for any business that deals with the GFL or SGODEV, he won't have any trouble getting one from me.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Did SG4 turn out like a SFC3 server? :O

No, least flamy to date in fact. Much fun.