Topic: HEY DIZZY,ISC Exempt from Equal pacification on the Gorn for round 2??

[FPF-Bach]

Dizzy,

I think everybody who is playing SGO4 need some clarification here.  Is there any truth to the rumor that the ISC are exempt from equal pacification vs the Gorn for round 2.?  If so why haven't all players been made aware that this is the case?  If this is the case then you should pick a specific Coalition race to apply this "NEW" rule to as well don't you think?

[Corbomite]

Dizzy,

I think everybody who is playing SGO4 need some clarification here.  Is there any truth to the rumor that the ISC are exempt from equal pacification vs the Gorn for round 2.?  If so why haven't all players been made aware that this is the case?  If this is the case then you should pick a specific Coalition race to apply this "NEW" rule to as well don't you think?

Nope. No one else has fulfilled the "conditions". All is correct. Please ignore the man behind the curtain.

[Dizzy]

Rumors. There is still unfinished roleplay business between the Organians and the ISC. You will find out in good time. And whatever change happens, it doesnt have to be fair or equal or anything other than what it is. Take it for what you want.

You will find your answer in another thread soon enough. Till then, business as usual.

[FPF-Bach]

Rumors. There is still unfinished roleplay business between the Organians and the ISC. You will find out in good time. And whatever change happens, it doesnt have to be fair or equal or anything other than what it is. Take it for what you want.

You will find your answer in another thread soon enough. Till then, business as usual.

Hmm, seems the ice is very thin over here.

[FPF-Bach]

Rumors. There is still unfinished roleplay business between the Organians and the ISC. You will find out in good time. And whatever change happens, it doesnt have to be fair or equal or anything other than what it is. Take it for what you want.

You will find your answer in another thread soon enough. Till then, business as usual.

Dizzy why would you go out of your way to state that "it doesn't have to be fair or equal"  aren't those 2 of the things you should strive for while admining a server?

[Dizzy]

So skate softly.

And I'd like everyone to stop worrying about little things and stop complaining so much about this or that. stfu and play! Not saying you are complaining, Bach, I understand you are looking for clarification, so that's not thrown at u...

BACH! Get on TS!

[FPF-Bach]

I'm not sure I like where this is headed, I will however reserve judgement until whatever is going to happen actually happens.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Nope. No one else has fulfilled the "conditions". All is correct. Please ignore the man behind the curtain.

Hmph.  There were no "conditions" listed anywhere.

Hey, Mr. Organian, remember that it was the Klingons who attacked your planet first!  We merely saw your DV drop from 50 to 48, and then we came to save you.

With us, you will have a choice in how you live your new lives.  You would have none with the Klingons.  They are a military dictatorship, to which war is a way of life.  We offer you protection.  I've seen what the Klingons do with planets like yours.  They are organized into vast slave labor camps.  You will have no freedom whatsoever.  Your goods will be confiscated.  Hostages will be taken and killed.  Your leaders will be confined.  You'd be better off on a penal planet.

-S'Cipio

[KAT J'inn]

Translation . . . .


Gorn are screwed.



Now I'm just a translating here.  <Sgt. Schultz accent>  I know nothing!  I see nothing!!

[likkerpig]

Hmph.  There were no "conditions" listed anywhere.

Hey, Mr. Organian, remember that it was the Klingons who attacked your planet first!  We merely saw your DV drop from 50 to 48, and then we came to save you.

With us, you will have a choice in how you live your new lives.  You would have none with the Klingons.  They are a military dictatorship, to which war is a way of life.  We offer you protection.  I've seen what the Klingons do with planets like yours.  They are organized into vast slave labor camps.  You will have no freedom whatsoever.  Your goods will be confiscated.  Hostages will be taken and killed.  Your leaders will be confined.  You'd be better off on a penal planet.

-S'Cipio

Pffft.
You know it was Kroma's plot for many "slave beings"! He goes through cabin boys like Hexx through "lift" shoes.
We fine coalition folks (seeing as Hexx thinks I'd be better off as a Rom than a Lyran <sniff>, we are all one voice) would never have visited the indignities on the population of Orgainia that you foul walking leather products have!
We of the coalition will join our peace loving ISC brothers and sisters in punishing the foul empire hungry alliance despots!
FREEDOM FOR ORGAINIA!
hmmm, wonder if any of them have mullets, LeRoy has been hiding lately.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

All the crap that was posted and this little bit was in there?

Amazing how much whining can get a race.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Ah, I get it... another screw the freds side campaign....

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

 You will find out in good time.

Translation: I'm still making up the rules as I go along

 And whatever change happens, it doesnt have to be fair or equal or anything other than what it is.

Translation: No translation required, here we have in writing confirmation of the deliberately unbalanced nature of this server. In my humble opinion, this would be called a gross lack of diplomatic skills and is wriiten with a tone of arrogance and contempt for those making genuine enquiries.

This goes too far, you have stepped over the line with this, Dizzy, way over.

[Firehawk]

You guys just need to read between the lines  

Organia. This system is of absolutely no military or economic value whatsoever, yet the signifigance the ISC place on occupying it would suggest otherwise. For one reason or another, the ISC regard this system as a 'second capitol in the west'.
 

translation:
The side that takes this planet is in very big trouble.  Why do you think the coalition didn't take it.  We started then the High Command order the operation halted because of this.  It was decided to let the alliance have it to see what would happen.

[Hexx]

 You will find out in good time.

Translation: I'm still making up the rules as I go along

 And whatever change happens, it doesnt have to be fair or equal or anything other than what it is.

Translation: No translation required, here we have in writing confirmation of the deliberately unbalanced nature of this server. In my humble opinion, this would be called a gross lack of diplomatic skills and is wriiten with a tone of arrogance and contempt for those making genuine enquiries.

This goes too far, you have stepped over the line with this, Dizzy, way over.

Uhmm usually I try not to ask questions when people say silly things.
But how is it you guys are now complaining of  "unbalance" when we stomped the ISC for the first week?
Next week will likely see the coalition get stomped.

Am I the only person who still plays the game to have fun and doesn't really care if my side wins or loses?

-> And I know I've quoted Tracy here, it's not directed at her (it's not not directed at her either) but at all of you simps
be you ISC, Alliance or Coaltion.

STFU and play the game for fun.
I've got a kill score to run up.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

It was predicted that Dizzy would try to pull another stunt like this, no one was completely in the dark about it, however, it was never stipulated exactly what would happen before the campaign commenced. Therefore this constitutes a mid server rules change, a deliberate one. This is untenable and unjustified.

[KBFLordKrueg]

You guys just need to read between the lines  

Organia. This system is of absolutely no military or economic value whatsoever, yet the signifigance the ISC place on occupying it would suggest otherwise. For one reason or another, the ISC regard this system as a 'second capitol in the west'.
 

translation:
The side that takes this planet is in very big trouble.  Why do you think the coalition didn't take it.  We started then the High Command order the operation halted because of this.  It was decided to let the alliance have it to see what would happen.

Because Coaliton High Command DID read between the lines...that and we knew how dastardly Dizzy is! 
We had strong suspicions about retribution if we took it...
That and those damned HomeWorld assaults were a nightmare!!

[Corbomite]

It was predicted that Dizzy would try to pull another stunt like this, no one was completely in the dark about it, however, it was never stipulated exactly what would happen before the campaign commenced. Therefore this constitutes a mid server rules change, a deliberate one. This is untenable and unjustified.

There have never been secret VC's before? There have never been secret objectives before? How in the hell would the ISC have a chance of anything at all if we told you that conquering Organia would enable us to attack with impunity? Seems to me Krueg and Co. figured it out without much trouble. Between complaints, have you ever actually read[/i] the server description?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

*yawn*

[F9thRyker]

If this was the other way round, the Coalition would be bitching and moaning all the way.

If a rule is hidden, how is it possible to ask people to follow it?


If this happened on D3 there'd be murder. And rightly so- mid server rules changes are bad calls *anyway*. For it to be hidden, is total BS, any way you slice it.

[Corbomite]

If a rule is hidden, how is it possible to ask people to follow it?

There is a difference between a rule and a condition. There is no rule about not attacking Organia, just consequences. The fact that one side figured it out from the given hint and the other didn't is the crux of your problem, not Dizzy.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Irrelevant. So now players have to 'guess' what the rules are?? That is ridiculous.

[Corbomite]

Are you really that retarded? Its not a rule, its a condition of the server - you know - If A, then B. Everyone seems to have seen it but you. Maybe its time for new Alliance leadership.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Hidden VCs are one thing, and on previous servers that have contained hidden VCs, it was made known in advance such VCs existed.

This is an entirely different matter, hidden server rules that were not even stated to exist beforehand is not on the same level.

[F9thRyker]

Are you really that retarded?

Having worked with people with learning disabilities in the past, I find your remarks extremely offensive, and I ask that you dont make such derogatory statements towards such people in the future. Right, back on topic...

Its not a rule, its a condition of the server

Wrong. There is nothing written in the Equal Pacification rule that says that it is completely null and void if a single planet is taken.


[EDIT- Re-reading this, it seems more and more that this "condition of the server" is an excuse for an action, rather than pre-authorized justification for it. Hate to preach, but there's nothing in the rules which says that the race which attacks Organia is open to complete conquest by the ISC, thus making existing rules null and void.
How many other "stealth" rules are there in this server? And, if the Coalition ends up being on the receiving end of them, will you be still singing the same sweet tune...? I think not, somehow]

Everyone seems to have seen it but you.

By 'everyone', you mean everyone who reads between rules and bends them for their own ends, in the middle of a campaign?
And I thought WaterTiger was bad for bending rules out of all recognition 

Maybe its time for new Alliance leadership.

...

If you're resorting to insulting a person to get your point across, then it mustn't be a very strong point in the first place. Enough with the personal attacks.

[Corbomite]

LOL, Ryker you're no fun at all. 

[F9thRyker]

I enjoy a good campaign as much as the next guy, Corbo, but Ive been on enough servers in the past 2 years on D3 to know this much- mid campaign rules changes are nothing but trouble. They piss off both sides, and eventually piss off the admins who have to deal with the supposedly justified cases put forward by both teams.

Situations such as this- best case scenario, cause an early end to the server. Worst case, one side walks out in protest and the server collapses. Believe me, Ive seen it happen, too many times.

I'd hate to see what started as a fun server, be completely ruined by a single stealth rule, allegedly introduced after being broken.

[Corbomite]

One last time - This condition was not added at this time. It was there from the begining and the ISC knew all about it. We were waiting for it to happen so we could be more offensive (well more offensive than just flying ISC anyway). You guys had a treaty with the Coalition and they didn't tell you about this? Gee I know who I'd be mad at if it were me. 

[FA Frey XC]

This is one of the most disappointing threads I've read in a while.

Back and Tracey, the fact that you decided to air all this in a public forum instead of taking it to SFC2.Net's private development forums / SG04 Development forums or at least via IM questions your motives. You are an ADMIN Tracey, you of all people should know better and directed the focus of this thread in a more positive manner. Your tone could certainly be construed itself as rude, whether Dizzy was rude or not is not the question. We, as ADMINS, cannot allow our personal feelings to impact our abilities to disassociate ourselves with these situations and not become that which we despise.

Dizzy MADE this server - I am not discounting the others that contributed, but Dizzy CREATED this server. This concept was part of the server from the beginning, I can vouch for that. What I cannot see how ANYONE can see this as anything else than a plot device, of which some it seems are getting a little bent over shape over.

I would suggest perhaps that some of you take a deep breath.

This is a GAME. People play it, create with it, and the very fact that some are utilizing these boards simple to incite more negative energy than just asking for some clarification and then ACCEPTING it as what it was is, quite frankly, what is so ridiculous for me.

Regards,

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Irrelevant. No where in the rules does it say that treaties were not allowed. No where in the rules does it say that rules will be hidden and changed mid-server. If it is not in the rules at the beginning of the server, then a rulkes change is a mid-server change. This is irrefutable and simple logic.
As for the ISC being told of such rules, again, it is irreleavant since it was not made known to everyone, nor placed in the written rules of the server before it started.
As for other people working out what these so-called hidden rules are, again, this is irrelevant, once again because they were not stated in the rules at the beginning of the server.
Which part of the above do you not understand??

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

This is one of the most disappointing threads I've read in a while.

Back and Tracey, the fact that you decided to air all this in a public forum instead of taking it to SFC2.Net's private development forums / SG04 Development forums or at least via IM questions your motives. You are an ADMIN Tracey, you of all people should know better and directed the focus of this thread in a more positive manner. Your tone could certainly be construed itself as rude, whether Dizzy was rude or not is not the question. We, as ADMINS, cannot allow our personal feelings to impact our abilities to disassociate ourselves with these situations and not become that which we despise.

Dizzy MADE this server - I am not discounting the others that contributed, but Dizzy CREATED this server. This concept was part of the server from the beginning, I can vouch for that. What I cannot see how ANYONE can see this as anything else than a plot device, of which some it seems are getting a little bent over shape over.

I would suggest perhaps that some of you take a deep breath.

This is a GAME. People play it, create with it, and the very fact that some are utilizing these boards simple to incite more negative energy than just asking for some clarification and then ACCEPTING it as what it was is, quite frankly, what is so ridiculous for me.

Regards,

My reseravtions are legitimate and contain no personal attacks against others, despite personal attacks thrown against me. I am also the Federation RM for this server, and it is my responsibility to address these issues with the server admin. It is appropriate to discuss such issues in public because it is server rules related and concerns everyone. Nor is this a conflict of interest with my role as admin for these boards.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Uhmm usually I try not to ask questions when people say silly things.
But how is it you guys are now complaining of  "unbalance" when we stomped the ISC for the first week?
Next week will likely see the coalition get stomped.

Am I the only person who still plays the game to have fun and doesn't really care if my side wins or loses?

-> And I know I've quoted Tracy here, it's not directed at her (it's not not directed at her either) but at all of you simps
be you ISC, Alliance or Coaltion.

STFU and play the game for fun.
I've got a kill score to run up.

What Sweet-Cheeks said. It ain't a rule change, it was a hidden condition, and a clever one at that. Thumbs up to Dizzy.

To the Alliance player whinnig, grow frigging up. It is just a game. This was a completely balanced condition, you look like idiots bitching about it.

To the Coalition players gloating, grow friggin up. It is just a game. You know damn well if things had gone the other way you would be the ones bitchin just as loudly about how unfair it is.

[KAT J'inn]

Uhmm usually I try not to ask questions when people say silly things.
But how is it you guys are now complaining of  "unbalance" when we stomped the ISC for the first week?
Next week will likely see the coalition get stomped.

Am I the only person who still plays the game to have fun and doesn't really care if my side wins or loses?

-> And I know I've quoted Tracy here, it's not directed at her (it's not not directed at her either) but at all of you simps
be you ISC, Alliance or Coaltion.

STFU and play the game for fun.
I've got a kill score to run up.

What Sweet-Cheeks said. It ain't a rule change, it was a hidden condition, and a clever one at that. Thumbs up to Dizzy.

To the Alliance player whinnig, grow frigging up. It is just a game. This was a completely balanced condition, you look like idiots bitching about it.

To the Coalition players gloating, grow friggin up. It is just a game. You know damn well if things had gone the other way you would be the ones bitchin just as loudly about how unfair it is.

It took you this long to find a flame thread.   Yer getting old!

[Kroma BaSyl]

Uhmm usually I try not to ask questions when people say silly things.
But how is it you guys are now complaining of  "unbalance" when we stomped the ISC for the first week?
Next week will likely see the coalition get stomped.

Am I the only person who still plays the game to have fun and doesn't really care if my side wins or loses?

-> And I know I've quoted Tracy here, it's not directed at her (it's not not directed at her either) but at all of you simps
be you ISC, Alliance or Coaltion.

STFU and play the game for fun.
I've got a kill score to run up.

What Sweet-Cheeks said. It ain't a rule change, it was a hidden condition, and a clever one at that. Thumbs up to Dizzy.

To the Alliance player whinnig, grow frigging up. It is just a game. This was a completely balanced condition, you look like idiots bitching about it.

To the Coalition players gloating, grow friggin up. It is just a game. You know damn well if things had gone the other way you would be the ones bitchin just as loudly about how unfair it is.

It took you this long to find a flame thread.   Yer getting old!

Oh I found it straight away, been having trouble figuring out who to flame though. Finally settled on flamming everyone. Except the ISC, but then they already know how I feel about them, Cheesy Bastards.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

If a rule is hidden, how is it possible to ask people to follow it?

There is a difference between a rule and a condition. There is no rule about not attacking Organia, just consequences. The fact that one side figured it out from the given hint and the other didn't is the crux of your problem, not Dizzy.

Actually, the "hint" Dizzy gave in the development threads was that Organia was not the ISC homeworld, but he had to make a planet in the west an ISC homeworld for DB reasons.  There was little reason to suspect the fluff written later about Organia was anything more than fluf.

-S'Cipio

[likkerpig]

There ain't enough cheese on the server to compliment  all the whine in this thread.
Great server Dizzy, I'm enjoying it immensely. I think I'll avoid these forums until it is over though, too much sour grapes making the whine.

[LordSaxon]

 You will find out in good time.

Translation: I'm still making up the rules as I go along

 And whatever change happens, it doesnt have to be fair or equal or anything other than what it is.

Translation: No translation required, here we have in writing confirmation of the deliberately unbalanced nature of this server. In my humble opinion, this would be called a gross lack of diplomatic skills and is wriiten with a tone of arrogance and contempt for those making genuine enquiries.

This goes too far, you have stepped over the line with this, Dizzy, way over.

Yet another bitchfest which have seemed to become normal material; especially from the side with the most DN's and a BB on seemingly 24/7 recently.....Everyone forbid if things don't always go your way. This has been normal for every game I have ever played, but I guess a challenge is too much for some to deal with. Cry on til all fits your Bill!!

[FPF-DieHard]

There ain't enough cheese on the server to compliment  all the whine in this thread.
Great server Dizzy, I'm enjoying it immensely. I think I'll avoid these forums until it is over though, too much sour grapes making the whine.

No!!!  You have to com back to post pictures!!!

[Kroma BaSyl]

Yet another bitchfest which have seemed to become normal material; especially from the side with the most DN's and a BB on seemingly 24/7 recently.....Everyone forbid if things don't always go your way. This has been normal for every game I have ever played, but I guess a challenge is too much for some to deal with. Cry on til all fits your Bill!!

So that explains why you were flying around in a R-BB pretending to be a newbie and annoying players that play by the rules. I guess the challenge was to much for you.

[KBF-Crim]

Ok...that's enough.