Topic: Space Watch: The Russians Are Coming - article link

[Nemesis]

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Space Watch: The Russians Are Coming

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The future looks even brighter. Last week, Roskosmos, the Russian space agency, signed a long-term agreement with the European Space Agency to allow Russia to establish Soyuz rocket-launch facilities at ESA's spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana.
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Not only is this six-seat manned spacecraft intended to be reusable, but one design option also will have it land on a runway like the space shuttle. Furthermore, Energia officials said if funded they could have it built and flying by 2010.

[toasty0]

Link to full article

Space Watch: The Russians Are Coming

...
The future looks even brighter. Last week, Roskosmos, the Russian space agency, signed a long-term agreement with the European Space Agency to allow Russia to establish Soyuz rocket-launch facilities at ESA's spaceport in Kourou, French Guiana.
...
Not only is this six-seat manned spacecraft intended to be reusable, but one design option also will have it land on a runway like the space shuttle. Furthermore, Energia officials said if funded they could have it built and flying by 2010.

Key qualifier: If funded.

Jerry

[Nemesis]

Key qualifier: If funded.

Jerry

Like the on and off funding of the Hubble repair mission?  Or the Mars mission that has been looming since the 1960s?  Or the Chandra X-Ray telescope that took nearly 30 years to become real?  Or the shuttle replacement plans (that keep changing)?   The Delta Clipper. The X-33. 

Business or government actions are based on funding and can be cancelled or delayed if funding is not available.  Where I work we had an expansion wait a year as the beancounters kept hoping for an improvement in the exchange rate between the U.S. and Canadian dollar, that didn't happen but the expansion was eventually funded anyhow.

The Russian system appears to be moving to a more commerical basis and it may well be that this will not be seen as profitable and not be funded.  But the level of profit rises with the use of the Kourou launch site.  The closer to equatorial location boosts the amount of payload that they can reach orbit with, lowering the cost per pound substantially.  That neutralizes the advantage that NASA currently has with the Cape Canaveral facility.  You might have noted that the payload that they can reach geosynchronous orbit with (using current rockets) nearly doubles by using the Kourou site, that will cut the cost per pound by approximately 40%.  Missions to lower orbits will also gain in payload mass or allow the use of smaller cheaper rockets, both cutting the cost per pound.

If this does come off and the Chinese and Indian efforts continue it might well spur NASA on to more efficient efforts as well.  Not to mention the purely commercial efforts like the Spaceship Two project and the orbital $50 million prize that is currently being put forward.

So I hope this project goes forward, as I hope that the Spaceship Two project continues and is successful and spawns a Spaceship Three and competitors.  I hope that he orbital prize is won and future prizes are continued.  The competition that these things bring can drive forward space efforts in a way that many of us have wanted from the beginning.

[TheJudge]

Actually, they may get funding from non-US sources for this.  That would be a big kick in the pants, we lose the edge in space because everyone builds better spacecraft than we do...

[J. Carney]

Actually, they may get funding from non-US sources for this.  That would be a big kick in the pants, we lose the edge in space because everyone builds better spacecraft than we do...

Man, the only problem with our spacecraft is that we haven't built a new one since the Atlantis. When the newest bird in your fleet is old enough to drink, that's NOT A GOOD THING, nor does it reflect what you are capable of doing.

If we would get off our butts and actually build a new spacecraft to replace the Shuttle, then we'd easily come out on top.

[Nemesis]

Actually, they may get funding from non-US sources for this.  That would be a big kick in the pants, we lose the edge in space because everyone builds better spacecraft than we do...

It would be a real kick in the pants if a U.S. source funded the Russian vessel and launched it from a French colony.

[TheJudge]

Actually, they may get funding from non-US sources for this.  That would be a big kick in the pants, we lose the edge in space because everyone builds better spacecraft than we do...

It would be a real kick in the pants if a U.S. source funded the Russian vessel and launched it from a French colony.

No worse than having to use Russian spacecraft to feed the ISS and to send up new crew as well as having to use French rockets to send a satellite into space.

[Jack Morris]

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/rtf_panel_050130.html

Discovery will launch this year, and the new fuel tanks will shed foam no larger than a dinner roll!

[Nemesis]

Discovery will launch this year, and the new fuel tanks will shed foam no larger than a dinner roll!

Which is still big enough to cause damage.

[TheJudge]

Wow, the Shuttles do have a great safety record...They've only lost 40% of their fleet in 21 years of operation.

[Nemesis]

Wow, the Shuttles do have a great safety record...They've only lost 40% of their fleet in 21 years of operation.

As I recall it is actually very close to the level of safety that it was designed for (98%).  (1 loss every 50 flights).  If as many Apollos had been flown as shuttle missions do you really think that losses would be any less? 

If NASA had accepted the telescopic inspection offer, the Columbia could possibly have been saved, or at least the crew.  Then the record would have exceeded design parameters. 

The big problem is that the Shuttle should have been retired by now with a well established successor in place.  The 1970s design of the shuttle should have been replaced by a 1990s design by now.  Politics decided otherwise.

If offered the chance I would go up in the next shuttle flight.  Or any  shuttle flight.

[Just plain old Punisher]

Well gee bob I didn't know strapping a couple hundred tons of high explosives on your back was generally a safe thing to do. You can call it rocket fuel.