Topic: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***  (Read 16212 times)

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Offline Dizzy

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #60 on: February 10, 2005, 02:25:14 pm »
 Solution:  don't use these rules again.

Which ones?

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #61 on: February 10, 2005, 02:29:46 pm »
 Solution:  don't use these rules again.

Which ones?

The ones that encourage people to take things too serously of course.  ;D

The first one that HAS TO GO is the 1 VC per kill nonsense.  See my next post . . .

Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2005, 02:39:30 pm »
 Solution:  don't use these rules again.

Which ones?

The ones that encourage people to take things too serously of course.  ;D

The first one that HAS TO GO is the 1 VC per kill nonsense.  See my next post . . .



I actually like the VC per kill rule.  It gives the PvP people something to shoot for besides flipping hexes.   Perhaps we should flatten them.  Make it one VC per ship, regardless of size.  Then there is no extra grief to a less experienced guy who loses an OOB ship.  A line ship would have "hurt" just as much.  (Or as little.)

This might also let people feel more comfortable towing a less experienced player off the map.  Sure, it costs you a VC point.  But if he ever gets the chance to return the favor when he's more experienced, he is no reason not to.  Dragging your XDN off the map costs his side no more points than it cost you to drag his starting FF off the map.

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2005, 02:55:17 pm »
1 VC per any kill rewards picking on newbs and is a large part in forcing people to take things too seriously.

Specialty and capital ships, yes.   Charge for VCs for them.

PvP pilots force people off hexes, that is a strategic benefit.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-Bach

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #64 on: February 10, 2005, 03:05:22 pm »


Maybe if you had attacked the Coalition you would have generated more PvP, they might have responded which would have freed the Allaince to send pilots to both fronts.

That's not correct. You had the player numbers to fight both.. At the expense of sacrificing Gorn space, you have driven DEEP into Coalition space. Had you used any kind of strategic intelligent planning, You'd still be in the lead despite having to divide your forces on both fronts.

It comes down to player numbers and it was logical that whosoever controlled Organia would have them. That triggered the R/P element yet it backfired because your commander decided to throw the game.


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

<wipes away tears of laughter>

Ahhh, Dizzy, you slay me.

"...the player numbers to fight both..."  That's hilarious.  A knee-slapper, even.  Utter crap, of course, but humorous nonetheless.

"...DEEP into Coalition space..."  Riiiiiiiight.  We've captured one Coalition planet, and have been fighting bitterly over another.  What we have  been able to capture might have been due to some intelligent strategic planning...<Bugs Bunny voice>...mmmmmmm...it's a possibility...

"...You'd still be in the lead..."  In the lead?  Gosh, I seem to remember that after Round 1 the Alliance was in last  place.  While revisionist history can always be fun to contemplate, the downside is that it's easy to call it what it is.  Oh, and on a related subject, I find it interesting that you never bothered to publish the Round 2 VP count.  What's the matter, did the Coalition fall to last place and you're afraid the Coalition will lose pilots?

"...It comes down to player numbers and it was logical that whosoever controlled Organia would have them..."  Nice try, but the reason we took Organia was due to the supreme efforts of Deadman6 and our small overnight crew.  Planning to hit a target at the time of day when you know you'll have more numbers than the enemy could be construed as strategic planning...naah, maybe not... ::)

"...That triggered the R/P element yet it backfired because your commander decided to throw the game..."  Ahhh, yes, the "R/P element".  Gee, if you had any real concern about that, you would have made it a caveat that the ISC would not be allowed to have a non-aggression treaty with either the Alliance or the Coalition, since the main R/P element of the entire campaign was the ISC trying to pacifiy both the Alliance and Coalition, keeping us apart and from fighting.  I would suggest 'consistancy' be your watch word from now on, brother.

Oh, and as to myself deciding to "throw the game", I could try to explain how and why the Alliance HC as a group came to the decision we did on how to play out the rest of the campaign, but I'm afraid it would probably be lost on you, not to mention you wouldn't give a frak anyway.  Instead, I'll just return the insult and say the following from the bottom of my heart...

Screw you. 

Right on Wanderer tell it like it is my friend.
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Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #65 on: February 10, 2005, 03:10:50 pm »
Nothing wrong with your strategy Wandy, just boring alot of the ISC players, especially those from GSA who came over to have a look at the D2.  I'm trying to convince them that normally there is more p v p in the typical 2 sided server and that it normally  isn't just a number of missions run exercise.  That is always a large factor of course, but there are other elements that can make a difference on most servers.  Three way affairs seldom run smoothly, maybe someday we will get one to work  ;)

Maybe if you had attacked the Coalition you would have generated more PvP, they might have responded which would have freed the Allaince to send pilots to both fronts.

Actually we took a Coalition planet and there was no response as they were being driven back to their homeworlds, the Coalition had few if any options due to their inferior player numbers.

Offline Dizzy

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #66 on: February 10, 2005, 03:29:13 pm »


Maybe if you had attacked the Coalition you would have generated more PvP, they might have responded which would have freed the Allaince to send pilots to both fronts.

That's not correct. You had the player numbers to fight both.. At the expense of sacrificing Gorn space, you have driven DEEP into Coalition space. Had you used any kind of strategic intelligent planning, You'd still be in the lead despite having to divide your forces on both fronts.

It comes down to player numbers and it was logical that whosoever controlled Organia would have them. That triggered the R/P element yet it backfired because your commander decided to throw the game.


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

<wipes away tears of laughter>

Ahhh, Dizzy, you slay me.

"...the player numbers to fight both..."  That's hilarious.  A knee-slapper, even.  Utter crap, of course, but humorous nonetheless.

"...DEEP into Coalition space..."  Riiiiiiiight.  We've captured one Coalition planet, and have been fighting bitterly over another.  What we have  been able to capture might have been due to some intelligent strategic planning...<Bugs Bunny voice>...mmmmmmm...it's a possibility...

"...You'd still be in the lead..."  In the lead?  Gosh, I seem to remember that after Round 1 the Alliance was in last  place.  While revisionist history can always be fun to contemplate, the downside is that it's easy to call it what it is.  Oh, and on a related subject, I find it interesting that you never bothered to publish the Round 2 VP count.  What's the matter, did the Coalition fall to last place and you're afraid the Coalition will lose pilots?

"...It comes down to player numbers and it was logical that whosoever controlled Organia would have them..."  Nice try, but the reason we took Organia was due to the supreme efforts of Deadman6 and our small overnight crew.  Planning to hit a target at the time of day when you know you'll have more numbers than the enemy could be construed as strategic planning...naah, maybe not... ::)

"...That triggered the R/P element yet it backfired because your commander decided to throw the game..."  Ahhh, yes, the "R/P element".  Gee, if you had any real concern about that, you would have made it a caveat that the ISC would not be allowed to have a non-aggression treaty with either the Alliance or the Coalition, since the main R/P element of the entire campaign was the ISC trying to pacifiy both the Alliance and Coalition, keeping us apart and from fighting.  I would suggest 'consistancy' be your watch word from now on, brother.

Oh, and as to myself deciding to "throw the game", I could try to explain how and why the Alliance HC as a group came to the decision we did on how to play out the rest of the campaign, but I'm afraid it would probably be lost on you, not to mention you wouldn't give a frak anyway.  Instead, I'll just return the insult and say the following from the bottom of my heart...

Screw you. 

Right on Wanderer tell it like it is my friend.

Ok, Bach, you and Wanderer need to STFU. I'm tired of your partisan misinformed BS. That's enough.

No one knows to what lengths and efforts I strove to insure this ISC blow out wouldnt happen. I saw it coming 2 days before round 2 VC's and talked to DH about it. I talked to Krueg. I went back and forth between the two. And apparently, you dont know about any of it, Wanderer, cuz DH must not have told you. But on Friday eve., after I had the workings of a cease fire all set to stop the ISC just b4 the VC's were to be recorded, I got a PM that also told me to screw me and the temporary treaty to save your Gorn territory. In essence, the message to me was, "We dont care if the ISC win as longt as you lose."

So yeah. The game was thrown. You cant possibly say it wasn't, for you'd be a fool to think it given the current server status. Like Chuut said, we couldnt do diddly against the ISC cause you were driving on our Homeworlds. You are now 1 hex away from one. So you are so full of sh*t it isnt funny, dude! All you had to do was temporarily pull off the our front lines for a day and you coulda stopped the ISC from a run away victory. Instead, you settled for second place and a bunch of our VP hexes which will fall far short of coming close to matching what the ISC took from you.

Only thing I must've got wrong was not talking to you about it before it all happened. Maybe something could have been done. But you cant sit there and tell me that you couldnt pull off our front lines for a night to push back the ISC. You (the Alliance) threw the game pleain and simple.

And I suggest we all stop taking it all too seriously. If you step back from the game a little bit, we should all be a bit more respectful of one another and greatful for what we DO have.

Diz

P.S. There are lessons learned in every server. It isnt that big of a deal this server was a complete disaster concerning the 3-way, cuz I doubt there will ever be another and who could have forseen what this one would degenerate into? Instead of bitching, accept it for what it is and go with the flow. There are a lot of good things that will come of SGO4 and not one good thing will come from insults or flames. So chill out please and look to the positive side.


Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #67 on: February 10, 2005, 03:47:29 pm »
Dizzy, you are an idiot, should we disect this and continue to make you look stupid?   ;D

Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #68 on: February 10, 2005, 03:52:58 pm »
All the flamers are idiots PERIOD!

Offline Dizzy

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #69 on: February 10, 2005, 04:02:35 pm »
Dizzy, you are an idiot, should we disect this and continue to make you look stupid?   ;D




Disect this:






White indicates starting borders. What you will see in the top pic, if you arnt frackin blind, is the Alliance driving in 1 hex from the Klink Homeworld Lyra.

On the bottom pic, the ISC have taken considerably less.

You CANNOT POSSIBLY tell me that you couldnt spend a day slapping the ISC back b4 round 2 VC's were taken considering how handidly you have smacked the Coalition back.

It doesnt take a freaking rocket scientist to see that you could have EASILY dealt with the whole SIX ISC captains for a day, reclaimed some lost territiry and not thrown the game in favor of them.

That's ok tho. I am imagining all this. ::Goes to take meds::


EDIT: Oh, and lets make sure to point out all that neutral zone space you took too.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #70 on: February 10, 2005, 04:07:49 pm »
All the flamers are idiots PERIOD!

Leave Kroma out of this!!!   ;D
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #71 on: February 10, 2005, 04:14:19 pm »
Dizzy the Alliance didn't "through" the server just because it didn't work out to your liking. You were as responsible as anyone with that ridiculous offer for an Alliance/Coalition ceasefire. It was a non-starter in that you basically asked that the Alliance go take care of the ISC while ceding an Alliance controlled planet to the Coalition. The offer was a completely ridiculous. It basically amounted to "you guys go attack them, and leave us to setup shop in your backyard". You need to learn about the "win/win" type of deal making, if you want anyone to go along with it.

But the real moral of this is that you need to take responsibility for your own monkey wrenching in trying to steer "or through" the server to anyone side. And learn that next time it is best if the admin keep completely out of that kind of thing and just let nature take it's course.

XOXOXOXO
Kroma,

PS, I am still having fun on the server by the way, but then I was unaware and uninterested in who was winning the VC count. I just like to play.
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Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #72 on: February 10, 2005, 04:17:26 pm »
Yo Dizzy,

Why even worry about it?  It is a game and the Alliance will fly however they see fit to do under whatever strategy.  Part of the game is their developing their own approach to it, using their own strategy.  And you can't truly say that the Coalition didn't leave themselves in this position as well by helping in the first week to drive the ISC to the far end of the map from the action.  If the ISC were still involved Organia would likely not have fallen and the ISC would be pacifying the neutral zone making deep incursions into either Alliance space or Coalition space difficult.

As for the Alliance saying they had no choice but going deep into coalition space, i don't find that to be true at all, but rather it was simply their choice to do so.  I don't think they should lay blame on Dizzy for having to do this, but should just acknowledge that it was their wish to do so, as they saw it as their best strategy, or perhaps merely the most fun.


Offline Dizzy

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #73 on: February 10, 2005, 04:19:36 pm »
3 ways just dont work. Leave it at that. Now a 4-way server...

Offline KAT Chuut-Ritt

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #74 on: February 10, 2005, 04:20:02 pm »

I was unaware and uninterested in who was winning the VC count. I just like to play.

I'm with Kroma  :thumbsup:

Offline FPF-Bach

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2005, 04:26:08 pm »
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2005, 04:28:45 pm »
 Solution:  don't use these rules again.

Which ones?

Um how about all?  ;D

Gave you negative karna for that one, bach. And that post deserved it. Most of the rules came from previous servers you have played on. And you are just now complaining? STFU!

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #77 on: February 10, 2005, 04:28:58 pm »
Responsible?   The ceasefire that didn't happen WAS ALL DIZZY's IDEA.   We didn't do it because you wanted us to cede a planet offering nothing in return.

Not my fault your side can't add, I suggest some refresher course at the Dogmatix Institute for Higher Methematical Studies.  It worked for the Wild Geese . . . .

I'm sorry your gang-bang didn't work Dizzy, try harder to fix the server next time.  ;D

Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #78 on: February 10, 2005, 04:29:54 pm »

As for the Alliance saying they had no choice but going deep into coalition space, i don't find that to be true at all, but rather it was simply their choice to do so.  I don't think they should lay blame on Dizzy for having to do this, but should just acknowledge that it was their wish to do so, as they saw it as their best strategy, or perhaps merely the most fun.



Not that there was no other choice, but that the other choice would lead to a fate worst than losing to the ISC, from their perspective. They felt it would be very difficult to even come in second and at least beat the Coalition if they concentrated their efforts on the ISC. This was componded by the fact that it was believed that "other" hide conditions and further "Wild Geese" deployments would negate any gains they made with that approach. Thus it was felt that it was pointless to try to win. This is why I warned Dizzy that an admin orchestrated player redeployment was bad Mojo. People don't want to thing the fix is in and that their effort are for not. This lead many in the Alliance to stop trying for the win and go for the fun pride factor over the Coalition as that is where the bigger rivalry is.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2005, 04:59:15 pm by Kroma »
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: ***SGO4 Bounties and more Bounties!***
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2005, 04:59:02 pm »
It's my fault. Mostly. 3-way servers just dont work. And yes, I tried my damnedest to make it work, yes i did. And I prolly unknowingly pissed some of you off too, with the best intentions at heart. ;) I'm sorry. I was really trying to prevent the state of affairs Kroma just described. Truth is, an admin just cant do it. It's server design and player numbers. I see that now. Lessons learned.

But its not entirely my fault. Just 90%. ;D