Topic: Babylon 5's J. Michael Straczynski talks about Trek "re-boot"

[Rat Boy]

From Trek Web


Two major problems I see with this: one, a full-blown re-boot as he's discussing just won't fly with the fans.  A lot of the hardcore fans who dismissed ENT dismissed it because it ignored (as they perceived it) the established Trek canon.  Essentially discarding forty years of Trek "history" won't save the franchise.  Second, it would help if JMS' own sci-fi franchise didn't go the way of the dodo because of a very poor telefilm that he was responsible for, namely Legend of the Rangers, one of the worst sci-fi films I've ever sat through.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

From Trek Web


Two major problems I see with this: one, a full-blown re-boot as he's discussing just won't fly with the fans.  A lot of the hardcore fans who dismissed ENT dismissed it because it ignored (as they perceived it) the established Trek canon.  Essentially discarding forty years of Trek "history" won't save the franchise. 

You may be assuming his re-boot means more than it does.  JMS has always said that TOS and the original Twilight Zone were the best SF television has ever had, bar none.  I fully believe he'd be faithful to TOS.  (And he even says a few kind things about TNG in the article you link.)  Besides, notice how lots of fans are asking for a Patrick Duffy moment in Enterprise?  A lot of what has happened in the last 20 years of Trek needs to be dumped. 

This is exaclty what the franchise needs.  Not necesarily a Patrick Duffy moment, but a complete change in the way Trek episodes are written.  Manny Coto's episodes are much much better -- or at least less heretical -- than the first three seasons of Enterprise, but I still see them as eipsodes I've seen before, and filled with things that are there only because they were mentioned in "later" series. 

Paramount can rest the series for a year, or for twenty years.  It doesn't matter.  If the writing doesn't improve beyond safe stories written by a committee iwth no appreciation of the spirit of TOS, then any new series will tank.  (If it isn't on a fringe network like UPN, it will tank quickly.)   In  contrast, if they started a new series tomorrow with top notch, thoughtful writing, then I think it would do extremely well.  (Even on a fring network like UPN.)

Of course, JMS has already been shot down, so it doesn't really matter now.   Let's hope he's still interested (and again available) in a year or so.

Second, it would help if JMS' own sci-fi franchise didn't go the way of the dodo because of a very poor telefilm that he was responsible for, namely Legend of the Rangers, one of the worst sci-fi films I've ever sat through.

A point.  But still, given the quality that was Babylon 5, and the quality that was apparent with Excalibur,  I'm perfectly willing to forgive him for one little glitch.  (I forgave TOS for Spocks Brain and The Way to Eden.)

-S'Cipio

[Rat Boy]

LotR was just a glaring example of the flaws in the franchise, which included three more terrible TV movies, a so-so first season to B5 and a tacked-on fifth season.  JMS is not the guy to do this right.  If there is to be a resurrection of the Trek franchise, not only should it honor everything that has come before ("Spock's Brain" and "Way to Eden" are as canon as ENT), but it also must have someone running it that knows how to keep everything kosher with canon.  JMS' statement seemed to suggest that he doesn't care about TNG post-Roddenberry's death, he doesn't care about DS9 at all (Gee, I wonder why), and he doesn't care about Manny Coto's qualitative revival of ENT.  The man that should take the helm of the franchise should be, ironically, Manny Coto.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

LotR was just a glaring example of the flaws in the franchise, which included three more terrible TV movies,

Actually, I liked all the B5 movies.

If there is to be a resurrection of the Trek franchise, not only should it honor everything that has come before

Here we will just have to disagree.  There is a lot of latter-day Trek I'd just as soon see erased. 

but it also must have someone running it that knows how to keep everything kosher with canon. 

There is currently *no one* in cahrge who can do this, or at least no one who is trying.   Coto makes an effort, but so far he hasn't shown the chops for the job.

JMS' statement seemed to suggest that he doesn't care about TNG post-Roddenberry's death, he doesn't care about DS9 at all (Gee, I wonder why),

'Cause they stole from him.    Really, that was pretty sad.  After the Treck franchise was stolen from to make Lost in Space in the 60's, you'd think they'd have acted better.

and he doesn't care about Manny Coto's qualitative revival of ENT.  The man that should take the helm of the franchise should be, ironically, Manny Coto.

Manny Coto makes a valiant effort, and I've enjoyed his season more than any other.  But I really don't think he has yet shown the chops for the job.  He is too easily drawn into the trap of re-doing episodes that have already done, and taking the easy path in his stories.  (I know, he didn' write all the episodes this season, but he was in charge.  And all of them you could see coming from a mile away.)  He turned Enterprise into enjoyable TV for those who remember TOS, but he didn't make it good.

-S'Cipio

[Rat Boy]

Actually, I liked all the B5 movies.

In the Beginning was the only good one.  The rest ranged from "forgettable" to "God, there isn't enough whiskey in the world to make me forget it."

Coto makes an effort, but so far he hasn't shown the chops for the job.

How so?  He's bridged the gap between ENT's earlier depictions of Vulcans and TOS' depiction of them, found a way to effectively plant the seeds for the Romulan Wars and the Federation, and is about to provide an explanation to the differences between TOS Klingons and TMP Klingons.

[Nemesis]

After the Treck franchise was stolen from to make Lost in Space in the 60's, you'd think they'd have acted better.

-S'Cipio

Lost in Space 1965-1968
Star Trek 1966-1969

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

[GDA-S'Cipio]

After the Treck franchise was stolen from to make Lost in Space in the 60's, you'd think they'd have acted better.

-S'Cipio

Lost in Space 1965-1968
Star Trek 1966-1969

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

It's in Gene Roddenberry's memoirs.

He first shopped Star Trek to CBS.  They brought him in, picked his mind about how he wanted to make a Sci Fi series work, got him to lay all his cards on the table, then told him, "Thanks, but no thanks.  We've got our own Sci Fi series we now want to try to make work."

By the time Star Trek went on the air on NBC (after two pilots) Lost in Space was already playing.   But they stole their concepts of how to make a Sci Fi show work from him and used them (badly).

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Actually, I liked all the B5 movies.

In the Beginning was the only good one.  The rest ranged from "forgettable" to "God, there isn't enough whiskey in the world to make me forget it."

In the beginning was the best of them.  If you are going to do a prequel, that's the way to do it.  River of Souls was probably the weakest.  It was not top-notch B5, but still <shrug> I liked it.

Coto makes an effort, but so far he hasn't shown the chops for the job.

How so?  He's bridged the gap between ENT's earlier depictions of Vulcans and TOS' depiction of them, found a way to effectively plant the seeds for the Romulan Wars and the Federation, and is about to provide an explanation to the differences between TOS Klingons and TMP Klingons.

Well, he gets you from point A to point B, but its a very wooden trip.  He seems too wrapped up in gimmic guest stars and and stale plots.

Did you ever have any doubt that the Vulcan villain was a Romulan?  He overacted more than Willian Shatner pretending to be his own dark half.  Didn't you predict that T'Pol's mother was going to die the instant you first saw her?  Does every character we meet from here on out have to be related to someone we saw on TOS?  (Was there any reason for the enhanced humans to mention Kahn, except for the fact that they were doing a lead-in story for Space Seed?)

Then take this recent Romulan war prequel.  I'd quibble with your use of the word "effective" when describing this story.  The Romulans were just standard stock TV villains.  You've got the guy with the secret project who pushed ahead before he was ready, and whose superior is going to have him killed if he fails.  I've seen these exact same two characters a thousand times.  I can quote their lines before they say them.  And were they Romulan at all?  Seriously, the only thing that made them seem Romulan were the ears.  They'd have looked more comfortable with black cloaks and tophats, twirling large moustaches and demanding the rent from a helpless widow.  Meanwhile, the main good guys get locked into an improbable duel to the death, which you saw coming a full 40 minutes before they themselves figure it out.

There is only one story I've seen this season that seemed like an attempt to tell a good story rather than just to flesh out something mentioned in TOS, and that was the one with the inventor of the transporter device.  I enjoyed it.  The only problem was, even it borrowed too heavily from The Ultimate Computer in creating the character of its "villain".

Coto's Trek needs something.  Perhaps it needs better writers.  Perhaps it just needs a chance to be a TV show that isn't on the brink of cancellation, so Coto could relax and build a good pre-TOS mythos.  But it needs somehting and that something was never in this season's cards.  And that's a shame.  Tucker, Reed, and Hoshi had the makings for great characters.  (Sorry, I like Baccula, but not Archer, and T'Pol served as little more than eye-candy.)  Now these characters have been wasted.

I'd like to see JMS's take on Trek instead.

-S'Cipio

[Rat Boy]

Did you ever have any doubt that the Vulcan villain was a Romulan?

Point of order.  V'Las was a Vulcan working as a Romulan collaborator.

And were they Romulan at all?

Launching secret strikes and trying to drive their enemies to war is par for the course for the Romulans.

[Ravok]

 Is it just me or is that freaking frog noise on the link irritating or what!

 Well it seems like Paramount is going to bury this Show, no matter what happens, or what we do. :

 Way to go Sh#t heads!

[Villa64]

And were they Romulan at all?  Seriously, the only thing that made them seem Romulan were the ears

Interesting.  What would it take to make them seem Romulan?  What are the Romulan identifying characteristics?  Who have we seen that seemed "Romulan", and wasnt just threatening someone on a viewscreen?

The commander in 'Balance of Terror'
Tasha's twisted daughter
Seems like a Rom admiral came aboard the Ent-D, but I dont recall much personality.

Hmmm. How do you pick a Rom out of a lineup?

---------------------------


(I forgave TOS for Spocks Brain and The Way to Eden.)

Yeeahh, brother...

[Nemesis]

After the Treck franchise was stolen from to make Lost in Space in the 60's, you'd think they'd have acted better.

-S'Cipio

Lost in Space 1965-1968
Star Trek 1966-1969

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

It's in Gene Roddenberry's memoirs.

He first shopped Star Trek to CBS.  They brought him in, picked his mind about how he wanted to make a Sci Fi series work, got him to lay all his cards on the table, then told him, "Thanks, but no thanks.  We've got our own Sci Fi series we now want to try to make work."

By the time Star Trek went on the air on NBC (after two pilots) Lost in Space was already playing.   But they stole their concepts of how to make a Sci Fi show work from him and used them (badly).

-S'Cipio

I don't place a lot of stock in memoirs that are not backed up by others.  People tend to claim things to make themselves "heroic".  I also never did see much of the "Wagontrain to the  stars" that Roddenberry talked about in Trek. In Lost in Space there is an element of that, but not in Trek.  A fact that I just discovered, LOS just like TOS had two pilots.  Presumably that makes up the time difference and still puts LOS earlier.

I think that with the space race going on there was just Sci-Fi in the air and it was time for a space series.  Trek did it better but I think LOS would have happened anyhow.