Topic: New Sheliak CA....

[markyd]

Nice work az 

[Red_Green]

Ok I am doing a reversal after studyinh this design  at length. I find it not so refreshing or unique after all. From looking at the engines I find them similar in shape to those from the Andromeda Bounty Hunter. The difference is the seperation in the front 'fins' of the engine are more pronouned and brought back deeper. While the overall shape is similar, the bounty hunter engines were round while these are blockier and made up of seperate pieces instead of integrated as 1 piece. In short the mesh isn't as nice.
The wing in back is very much cardassian in appeance. I admit the hull with the hole in the middle is nice, though Azel, you have used that in about 1/5 of your races at 1 time or another. So to sum up while it is nice, there isn't anything in the design that is truly new.

Azel, I pretty sure that yout trying to be a professional model/designer/artist.  The ones thing I have noticed is that those working in that field are required to do every aspect. Dsigning and meshing and texturing your a natural at. I think though, that if you are reaaly serious about pursuing a career in it that you need to learn Max, Lightwave and Photoshop at the bare minimum. I think thats what they expect in the field. You have the talent, why not go all out with it. If you can do this in paint and milk there wouldn't be no stopping if you got dead serious man.

I know this is terribly blunt. But hey thats me at times (part Nietzchain perhaps, whatch Tyr from Andromeda and you will understand what I mean)   I am just tired of anytime you post and everyone basically says thats the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Cause it is and it isn't , CG department would hire someone who designs then builds and textures and animates. Now if your not pursuing it as a career. First why the hell not? Second, then disregard everything I said LOL.


Oh and btw yea I guess I was totally off base by retexturing your pics. I feel though that if you had a problem you could have messaged me about it instead of pointing it out for the entire world. But I don't mind too much cause I respect when people point out something I do thats increible annoying. I probaly could have messaged you this I guess. I totally expect you to senfd your thugs after me now.  rofl

[Tus-XC]

I don't think it was really callling you out as much as you over looking a professional courtesy.  in all reality if you had pulled that kindof stunt at a modeling forum you probably would have gotten ur ass chewed for it.  What you got was more or less a slap on the wrist vs.  the humilation you would have gotten else where.  I would say be happy it happened now and not down the road. 

On another note you sure know how to make a complete ass of yourself in no time flat.  It seems to me that your 180 degree shift seems to be based more on the fact that he happened to "call you out" on somthing you should have asked to do in the first place.  It appears to me that you really have a problem with criticm and people not appreciating what you do.  I would suggest that you learn quickly that that kinda of attidude will not fly anywhere, and most definatly not with me.  Take your bumps and bruises and get over it and learn some "professional courtesy"  because at this rate you are just going to run your self out again.

and if that is blunt, get over it!

Good day

[Red_Green]

Tus your coments do not surprise me at all. I don't follow the professional courtesy angel. In the past in is typical in this forum for people to retexture ships. Most often it is P81's. But I have seen about a dozen seperate modelers have there stuff reworked. THen its common that people post it in a WIP and then ask for permission. Ihave NEVER sean anyone have greif over this. On 2 occasions a 3rd party will say "You had better get permission if your going to release it" Thats all I have seen and I have been in this forum longer that you have. Over 3 years.

If you want to get nitpicky, Once Azel asked if I would do a project for him in a thread. I turned him down as I was tto busy.I posted in the same thread he asked. Shortly there after people chided me about not wanted to collaborate on projects, which is not true. Though I often don't have time I do so when my skills match the task and the project interests me. I could say that it would be more professional to have Azel make a request like that in private as it is awkward to turn people down in the forum.
But kanow this also, I am not a professional modeler and am not persuing that as a career. So youe expectations for me are to high and I question the fact that what I did was over the line, its more the norm than not. However people do usually wait until the model is released 1st. I did some stuff to see if Azel like it and if he did I would have expanded on it.

I don't  believe for a second when he stated that he wasn't targeting me specifiaccly but giving a general statement to all modelers as if that was the case he would hace posted that from the outset.  Keep in mind also that to my knowledge he has no readme's in any of his releasing. At least the last time I d/led his work there was never any. So he had no stated policy. I also have done this in the past to his Lyran ships that had a Egpytian theme and he even said he liked what I had done. Some people had complained that his colors were too bright so I added histogram. some subtle noice and reduce the saturation and poasted a pic. He was cool with it. So his reaction this time was a complete 180. Its find to change policy and is his right, I just don't like to find out by having a bomb fall on me.

Note I take crediting very seriously as I did a mod with 80 ships in it and anyone. I mean anyone who did anything was credited. Weather they did a conversion, mesh, texture, or kitbash. I think you and a lot don't see the situation objectively as you obviously collaborat with Azel and your buddies. Why don't you let him speak for himself. I am really tired of you always assigning me 100% blame in a conflict when you don't even know the history of the forum. If anyone can claim bruises it would be me. I can't think of anyone whos had more models falmed when things were chaous here 2 yeasr ago. I was  even threated to have liquid plumber poued down my thoat after posted a WIP of my 1st model. Maybe you could take a look at your professionalism.

[Red_Green]

Hey TUS Giving me negaative Karma is a bit unprofessional wouldn't you say. Whats so laughable is anytime an azel ship gets critued whoever does it gets -30 karma caus ehe has an army to fight his battles for him Oh and 1 more thing. You can give me -200 karma I don't care. Your stuck with me because I am here to model. I get entusiastic at times and just run with ideas at times. But thats what artistic types do. You won't be able to break my will or stifle my entusiam. I'll will just channel it into my next ship I work on.

[Azel]

Tus your coments do not surprise me at all. I don't follow the professional courtesy angel. In the past in is typical in this forum for people to retexture ships. Most often it is P81's. But I have seen about a dozen seperate modelers have there stuff reworked. THen its common that people post it in a WIP and then ask for permission. Ihave NEVER sean anyone have greif over this. On 2 occasions a 3rd party will say "You had better get permission if your going to release it" Thats all I have seen and I have been in this forum longer that you have. Over 3 years.

If you want to get nitpicky, Once Azel asked if I would do a project for him in a thread. I turned him down as I was tto busy.I posted in the same thread he asked. Shortly there after people chided me about not wanted to collaborate on projects, which is not true. Though I often don't have time I do so when my skills match the task and the project interests me. I could say that it would be more professional to have Azel make a request like that in private as it is awkward to turn people down in the forum.
But kanow this also, I am not a professional modeler and am not persuing that as a career. So youe expectations for me are to high and I question the fact that what I did was over the line, its more the norm than not. However people do usually wait until the model is released 1st. I did some stuff to see if Azel like it and if he did I would have expanded on it.

I don't  believe for a second when he stated that he wasn't targeting me specifiaccly but giving a general statement to all modelers as if that was the case he would hace posted that from the outset.  Keep in mind also that to my knowledge he has no readme's in any of his releasing. At least the last time I d/led his work there was never any. So he had no stated policy. I also have done this in the past to his Lyran ships that had a Egpytian theme and he even said he liked what I had done. Some people had complained that his colors were too bright so I added histogram. some subtle noice and reduce the saturation and poasted a pic. He was cool with it. So his reaction this time was a complete 180. Its find to change policy and is his right, I just don't like to find out by having a bomb fall on me.

Note I take crediting very seriously as I did a mod with 80 ships in it and anyone. I mean anyone who did anything was credited. Weather they did a conversion, mesh, texture, or kitbash. I think you and a lot don't see the situation objectively as you obviously collaborat with Azel and your buddies. Why don't you let him speak for himself. I am really tired of you always assigning me 100% blame in a conflict when you don't even know the history of the forum. If anyone can claim bruises it would be me. I can't think of anyone whos had more models falmed when things were chaous here 2 yeasr ago. I was  even threated to have liquid plumber poued down my thoat after posted a WIP of my 1st model. Maybe you could take a look at your professionalism.

Dude what are you talking about???
I made the above comment on the "asking before posting" because AS I SAID " Over the last few months I have noticed an increasing trend of stuff just being done without any communication prior to its presentation"...
I am not a hard person to get a hold of...and as I said, I usually say ok when I am informed of things before they happen
the Renders where not mine they where Tus'...you did not ask him or show him the work before posting it....nobody was mad...just wanted to rfe-affirm the point
and once again the comment was not intended towards you specifically...If you think it was then you my friend have a serious "guilty conscience" issue
Mate I am not mad(...but this is getting a tad tiresome), and For the record mate, I try to be very supportive of everyones endeavors, as many can attest too
So please just chill out and just relax...nobody here is out to get you
Oh and BTW: I am a conceptual designer not a modeller...I model as a hobby for this community and to share ideas...hell I don't even play the game anymore other than for a quick
scirmish every once in a blue moon
2d art and physical sculpture are my strong points...I am studing to be a Paleontologist...I don't study art
So please do not make comments about things about people that you know nothing about
Thank you

[Red_Green]

Well it seamed to be diredted at me cause it came right after I posted and thats the first I had seen you ever state a policy.

About modeling as a career, I recall you posting that you send out portfolio's to places trying to get work in the field. Could had sworn it was you. Anyway thats why I thought it was odd that you were using milk and paint. But jonestly what compunds things is always how anytime I question anything regarding you, I get flamed by your pals. To me thats wierd as I have gotten flamed for no reason in the past and people just ignored it or piled on.  EVen Fury had made a remark about the pic I posted that I didn't reaaly understand but got the impression that he thought I was out of line. I just am dam tired of being the forums pee-on over the last 3 plus years so I have a low tolerance. I honestly would like to move to a different forum  for a fresh start but the one I was using closed and a coiple others get about 2 posts a month ( more or less dead) Never been in a more serious modeling forum as strange enough but I don't think of myself as a modeler since I use milk. LIke SCI-FI mesh is all max users for the most part.

Perhaps TUS comes from a forum like that which has a professional feel to it. That may be part of why some of us seam to be on different pages. This forum isn't what I would term professional, it might be headed that way but I came into it when there was a flame war every 2 weeks.

As far as making comments about people I don't know anything about. I thought I did know you some, I was sure you had said something about a career in modeling but I must be mistaken. I wouldn't have said all that about using Max and whatnot. I'll just stay out of your threads.

[Tus-XC]

Bud, you can do whatever makes you happy.

And yes i did give you negative Karma as your attitiude and you statements  were what i would call out of line for anyone. 

Your original post is what i would call out of line.  Reason being is that for you first six posts were the exact opposite of your last one, and it appeared as if you were only changing your attitude on the design because you felt "called out" on what Atolm/azel has not allowed in the past (i believe he told ravenight the samething a while back).  To make matters worse you made sure you mentioned that in that post when you yourself said it should have been handled in a PM.  With all due respect if that was how you felt then why did you have to add that statement to your post.  seems rather hypocritical to me. on that note, if you think my negative karmaing you was so bad and so uncalled for, then why might i ask did you conitnue it? 

Your time in this forums is somtihing that to me means nothing, as i've been around here for at least 4, though not until recently  have i been an avid poster.  I rember well when you were james formo, i remember your threads getting "flamed"  and i remember  your linability at times to handle critiques and i remeber in the matter in which you acted.  On the parts of critques i remeber that you used to take some hostility towards them, though to your credit you have improved greatly. and as for the flames you really should have ignored don (I believe that was him flaming you though its been a while) instead you took it personally and deciding that you would leave the forum.   I remeber looking at your desings and thinking that they were rather good, but because its not my nature to post(and until last year i rarely did)  i kept browsing. 
And as for professional courtesy, i would learn it, and learn it fast.  It is not just something that i think should at least be shown to people, online or off, but an important life skill.  If you don't know how to show some, well then i guess you don't live in the real world.  As for my professional courtesy i would have to say that i use it every day, one for i'm in a miltary enviroment, and two because its alot harder to get things done without it.  I at leasted attempt to show whats going on in my head vs. some of the replies i've seen from you.  It seems for the most part that you have some real contempt for Atolm/Azel, for whcih i'm not sure where it comes from.  He may have  "chided you" a bit for not letting him know but besides that (and his asking for you to work with him a project, for which you got chided by forum members for not working with him on, not he himself) he has nothing to you to deserve the lack of courtesy you have been showing him.  As for my expectations for you they are the same for anyone else, and thats to show some courtesy, it does goes long way.  if thats to high of standards for people then i really don't know what this world is coming to.

As for the pictures being used and that being common policy, its not when it comes to editing the picture as you did recently versus editing it to show errors in either the mesh or the textures. the two are not the same and confusing that is rather silly.  As for editing meshes, if the readme says no release until until approved, then to me that means getting ahold of that person and getting it approved before posting.  How other people may intepret their policy is different, but to Atolm/azel (as he just made clear) it does mean getting his ok.    and for azels policy haveing not been clear, well then for one you should really look fo a readme (some of his older stuff doesn't have it, and i know anything that i do for him includes one, with his policy on retextures and mesh editing) and two you should have taken the time to at least clarify it.  It would have saved any humilation you might have felt to just pm him for permission.  it might have delayed you for a few hours, but atleast there wouldn't have been a problem, nor would there be my need to make a second post of this nature in this thread.

My problem does not lie with you, as you have modeling skills that surpass my own and what you do you have my respect for.  my problem arises in your lack of professional courtesy, that from what it appears by your reply,of  which you do not care for or do not understand.  As i have said before it is somthing that you should have the common decency to show towards anyone.  I for one am not a shining example, but atleast i make an effort everytime i feel the earge to post somthing.  And when i can't i make sure i don't post. 

I do hope that my post is professional, and for anything that might not be professional on my part, i appologise.  You are right, he is my friend, and i've known him for about a year and have worked with him on many occasion.  so when i see somthing that i percieve as an attack on a friend then i will be more than happy to say somthing about it. 

to end i wish to apologise to everyone for making this and the last post, its not what should be going on here. but i think this was neccesary.  If it wasn't please feel free to let me know.

Robert

[Red_Green]

I have never read anything about what is considered common courtesy so What you say is to my belief your own opinion, not some gold standard set by the forums. It should be pointed out that no one messages me stated what is accepted and what is not. So where are you cominhg up with this and if you have it availble perhaps you could send me a memo. I'm sick of your hily professional attitude and your looking down on me like I commited some mortal offense. Get a life. THis is a hobby to me thats all. I didn't realize they were your renders, sorry I posted pics of them alterntered. Wait, let me be honest I already said I was sorry. Get off my back.
I have no respect for you what so ever.

[Adonis]

I have never read anything about what is considered common courtesy so What you say is to my belief your own opinion, not some gold standard set by the forums. It should be pointed out that no one messages me stated what is accepted and what is not. So where are you cominhg up with this and if you have it availble perhaps you could send me a memo. I'm sick of your hily professional attitude and your looking down on me like I commited some mortal offense. Get a life. THis is a hobby to me thats all. I didn't realize they were your renders, sorry I posted pics of them alterntered. Wait, let me be honest I already said I was sorry. Get off my back.
I have no respect for you what so ever.

There goes the neighbourhood...

[Red_Green]

I have never read anything about what is considered common courtesy so What you say is to my belief your own opinion, not some gold standard set by the forums. It should be pointed out that no one messages me stated what is accepted and what is not. So where are you cominhg up with this and if you have it availble perhaps you could send me a memo. I'm sick of your hily professional attitude and your looking down on me like I commited some mortal offense. Get a life. THis is a hobby to me thats all. I didn't realize they were your renders, sorry I posted pics of them alterntered. Wait, let me be honest I already said I was sorry. Get off my back.
I have no respect for you what so ever.

There goes the neighbourhood...

This isn't a neighborhood. Never has been.  Its just a forum, full of people with huge Ego's and no sense of humor. 

[Red_Green]

Isn't there basically an understanding that anything posted can be used for personal use, and permission is only required if you release something. Tus, didn't you say that no one did what I did so how can there be a standerd in place for something that you havn't seen?  I think your playing it both ways.

I have an idea. I 'll report this post to the forum admin and let them sort it out. I tried reporting my own post but it says I can't report my own post so I will report your post Tus and then see if the Admins think I need to be banned or reprimaned. If not then I think this issue should be dropped


Edit-ok I reported the thread to the moderator seeing as my earlier apology didn't suffice and my second sarastic apoligy diesm't help any. If they decide that action against me is neccessay I will trust there decision.
Here is how I addressed it.

Tus believes I have commited a mortal sin against forum etiqutte, Perhaps action is needed. I will let it drop but I often get hounded for weeks after something like this and I am not just going to become a punching bag. If I am at fault than by all means take whatever action is warrented

[Red_Green]

. 

On another note you sure know how to make a complete ass of yourself in no time flat. 
Good day

YUp the neiborhoods gone- good Day

A meesage sent to me by Tus

the issue
« Sent to: red_green on: Today at 12:03:25 AM »     

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
red_green

as of right now i have no issue with you and i considered the issue closed when after my attempt to maintain professionalism with you, you still go ahead and insult me and show me no courtesy what so ever after i showed you more respect than was deserved at the point in time.  Instead of replying to it and making the thread continue on in a matter which is not helpful to the community  i have refrained from continueing the arguement, as it appears that there is no way to make you  see my side, seeing you last 3 or 4 posts have been snide remarks which appear to be intentiallly aimed at me.  on top of that, you made a general post in the forum calling out atolm when you yourself disliked atolm calling you out in public.  that my friend is a dual standard. 

as for the information being for personal use, maybe you should look into the definition of personal use, as it still doesn't make it yours to do with as you please and then post it with out getting consent.  I would have cared less what you did to those renders as i have a pretty open policy towards anything i do, its the fact that its been made obvious several times of atolms policies, and the last one of this type was toward ravennight (had to do with atolm's remans and raven altering i think) 

as for the professional standard in this community, i really do believe there is one considering that the one you remember died off shortly after the great "star wars vs star trek" debate.  since then there hasn't been any serous problems (discounting OB rant after a really horrible week) and the atmospher in this community has been professional, as anyone i've talked to has been more than courtesy to me and has maintained that professional atmosphere.

Btw go ahead and report me as i have done nothing for me to worry about, as i have been pretty professional through out this entire  ordeal

Robert

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
btw I was reporting myself, not you. IN order for the aaadmins to decide if I am at fault, IF they decide that action is needed against me, I have no choice to accept it, if not that just please drop it. That Pm says nothing constuctive, only a contined ad naseum attempt to covince me that I am 100% at fault. I believe I had sai I thought it was Azels pics and I had altered his pics before with maybe not his blessing, but he had no problem so I didn't give it a second thought when I felt inspired to show the ship in Cardassian colors.
I only reported your post as the forum does,'t allow you to report your own. I am sure they will read all the posts. My guess is perhaps I get a warning, perhaps you do as well. Life in the big city. I really don't care, as many know at times I am too frank. All I can do is take responsibility for what I said and did. I can't take it back. It was a mistake posted altered pics out of over exuberane at the time. I also made some assumptions, but They were how I percieved things and If I hadn't voiced my perceptions, Azel wouldn't have been able to clarify that it was coincidence that he posted his new policies concerning his models just after I posted the pics leading me to belief his comments were because of my actions.

Tus you make a lot of assumptions. I have never read about Azel's Policies anywhere. He and I have not had a conversation in about 6 months. Even then that was in a thread and not about policy. I can't be expected to have read every post he ever made in the forum. You just seam bent on tottally destroying reputation. THis is the 1st time I have done anything close to out of bounds. As I said it was a mistake or misunderstanding as to whos pics they were. It was Azels thread and his ship and sometimes he has posted his own pics. 

In my defense Azel once told me I could do whatever I wanted to his ships and like I said he never told me he changed policy and I thought they were his pics. So for all I knew I had prior permission. I think ny your perssitance you basically are trying to destroy my credbity and bring me down. Seams like your quite enjoying yourseld having me under your thumb. Also knowing that Azel has more clout than anyone in the forum must make you feel pretty secure in continuing to bash me.

[GotAFarmYet?]

If you want something reported why did you not simply ask someone to report it for you?

[Sapharite]

Both you should stop... This is useless conflict... BTW Azel great work... I'll add Sheliak to my minor races in OP

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Red_Green,


Posting PM's from people on these forums is a rules violation.

Check yourself,else I will.

[markyd]

Nice Ship AZ the fleet looks great, I noticed a purple edge on the engines? Is that supposed to be there, or is it a mapping issue?

Either way, the fleet is kick ass, keep it up dude 

[Tus-XC]

lol, nope the purple was a screw up on my part, its the glow of the impulse lol

[FoaS_XC]

This isn't a neighborhood. Never has been.  Its just a forum, full of people with huge Ego's and no sense of humor. 

OH FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD.

Quit your bitchin'...Atolm didnt call you out, he let his policy be known - you feel threatened by it?, fine, thats your perogitive, but deal with it in your own way, dont drag other people down into it. So he wants to be contacted now, it doesnt matter how things used to be, or how things were done before, this is how it is now. If you cannot deal with it, -=shrug=- dont look at his stuff.

As far as what i just quoted. This board, pre-dyna, and post, has been a community of people who i consider to be close personal friends. I will NOT tolerate someone taking cheap shots at the unity of this - indeed - neighborhood, or that of the people who constitute it.

[Reverend]

Pay very close attention, right now.
Re-read the entire thread, Red-Green, ignoring the parts you now deleted in attempt to preserve your side of the argument. Yes, Azel has changed his policy, either on this ship specifically or this series of ship; you know, the race. Azel modelled it, Tus touched up the model then textured it; I am assuming for now that Azel designed it. Technically, Azel did not say anything in the beginning about requiring permission to fiddle with the model and/or its textures, and you went ahead and retexture it immediately and posted it. Normally, that would be a LITTLE forward, but not rude, considering the culture of this forum. However, he later asked (after you went ahead and immediately retextured it, again, odd, but not for here usually) for 'anyone', yes, directed at you a little, logically, to please not alter this model.
Instead of saying "okay", and asking for permission, you flew off the handle, again. I bet you all my wages of this month that if you asked immediately after posting the image of your retexture for permission, he might have let it fly, despite the request.
I, and the community, are absolutely sick and tired of your pathetic wheedling, whining, and antagonization, lest I not mention plain ripping off other ideas and claiming them your own. I have three, 1,2,3 total conversion mods that I know would have been interesting, but have not been able to release them, as I didn't think to ask for permissions until I realized their magnitude. You, again, are in the wrong; and you know it- otherwise you wouldn't have argued this much, and wouldn't have deleted several early posts in this thread.

You need to find yourself another place to visit, you have completely worn out your welcome. As a matter of fact, now Azel probably won't be releasing any more material, much less anyone else after this, not to mention your other rip-off retextures, and half-ass models.
You have changed this community with your whining, trouble-causing,grammatically sloppy, childish behavior. Do everyone a favor and go make your own site, and remove your crappy retextures and blocky ruinous models, they all are weakly designed, poorly built, just like their creator.

Please just leave, your infant-phallused prescence makes me ill, and I promise everyone else.... everyone else just has more manners than I do. Just because you have ruined your life, being your own worst enemy, does not mean you have to ruin ours.

Yeah, you win!!!! Now leave, I now call a immediate boycott on you, your sad little mod, and all of your works. Let us pray for Atrahasis's return, at least he didn't insult other modellers and disrupt the great, quiet little neighborhood of Models.