Topic: SGO4 - Number of command and specialty ships in the yard

[Lepton]

There seems to be quite a few specialty and command ships popping up in the yard such that it excludes many decent non-OoB ship from entering the shipyard.  Is there a reason for this?  As far as I know these ships are all subject to restrictions, so why are they in the yard?

[762_XC]

Because that's the only way for an assigned player to get one.

[Lepton]

Presumably then the only ones that need to be in the yard are the ones that a build order has been posted for.  Looking at the yard right now for the Lyrans I see a mauler variant, an escort cruiser, a light carrier, and before I have seen a DN, etc, etc.  None of these were ordered for a build.  Why are they there?  Can't what's not on order for a build be specialed or reserved out on the server side?  Also there have been any number of servers in which OoB ships were either assigned by a DB edit or by opening the server to assigned ship purchase before the server goes live.  Any of these measures would have prevented the current situation in the yard now where there are a bunch of unasked-for ship and very few decent unrestricted ships.  So I don't accept that this is only way it could be done as it has been done quite differently in the past.

[FPF-Bach]

Presumably then the only ones that need to be in the yard are the ones that a build order has been posted for.  Looking at the yard right now for the Lyrans I see a mauler variant, an escort cruiser, a light carrier, and before I have seen a DN, etc, etc.  None of these were ordered for a build.  Why are they there?  Can't what's not on order for a build be specialed or reserved out on the server side?  Also there have been any number of servers in which OoB ships were either assigned by a DB edit or by opening the server to assigned ship purchase before the server goes live.  Any of these measures would have prevented the current situation in the yard now where there are a bunch of unasked-for ship and very few decent unrestricted ships.  So I don't accept that this is only way it could be done as it has been done quite differently in the past.

It may have been differently in the past, but not the recent past.  The way it's being done is the easiest way without working SQL.

[Lepton]

Considering I offered what I believe is the solution to the problem, restricting server side, your response is less than helpful and merely states the obvious.

[FPF-Paladin]

Considering I offered what I believe is the solution to the problem, restricting server side, your response is less than helpful and merely states the obvious.

Your idea is a good one on the surface.  I think I can explain why this wouldn't work in the current system though.

Right now, we have immediate ship transfers.  Every time a pilot takes on a new command(ship), you'd have to go unrestrict/restrict ships.  Every time, for every ship... right now up to twice a day for all races.  Not realistic in terms of record keeping, or server downtime while these settings are changed (essentially holding up the whole campaign for this)

It's a pain to wait for the shipyard to turn over, but it would be worse to have to wait for an admin to show up to get the build ships on the board; plus the extra server downtime that effects all the players instead of a few who are waiting on ships.  SQL could do this easily; for now it's probably not feasible.

Hope that helps, might be something totally different but this is easily one good reason against your proposal.

[Dizzy]

Right now, we have immediate ship transfers.  Every time a pilot takes on a new command(ship), you'd have to go unrestrict/restrict ships.  Every time, for every ship... right now up to twice a day for all races. 

What he said!

Leptons right, of course, just cant do it here.

[Julin Eurthyr]

And I had a hard time finding many of the ISC's specialty ships.  Might have something to do with the fact that we have about 6 specialty models available right now, but still...

If I understand Lepton's thought train correctly, I think he's requesting that all unordered specialty ships be removed, server side, from build consideration.  For example, I think the Gorn called for a DN and a flight of BFs, that's it.  Therefore, the only "cXXX" ship in the Gorn yard should be a DN, and the only Gorn "sXXX" ship should be the BF.  Rommies should have their Condor, the FHFs and FH-Ps, they ordered, the rest temporarily restricted.  Etc. Etc. for all racial build orders.

When a race first orders up a new ship, then the Admins can go ahead and unrestrict it.  For example, when I build a CVS for next round, then it would have to be unrestricted, until such time as there are no more CVSs in the ISC OOB...  The only problem with this is making sure the ships are available with the new build round for players to buy, and that the server won't disproportionally ignore them...

[Dizzy]

I'd never get to play the server if I had to do that.

[Julin Eurthyr]

I'll try to help Lepton's case here...

IIRC, to restrict / unrestrict a ship, there needs to both be the shiplist edit, then a restart, for the change to take effect.  Therefore, this would reasonably restrict the amount of times that the shiplist would be edited / changed, probably to coincide with DB cleans.

What I meant by the "as long as a ship is on the OOB, it's unrestricted" bit:  The ISC currently has CCYs, CVLs, CVs and CVLPs on our OOB.  Whether or not all the ships are assigned shouldn't matter, until each and every ship is destroyed it should remain unrestricted on the shiplist.  This way, the ISC could swap their ship around without requiring further Admin interference.  The only problem would be when a new ship was ordered (like when I order the CVS or something like that), then the Admin team would need enough lead time to make the shiplist edit, and have it cought on a reset to kick off the build round, or if all of a ship-hull (say all the CVLs) were destroyed, then we'd be stuck seeing them in the yard till the edit / restart.

Then again, keeping track of all this & the need to keep errors down (would you want to be the race stuck a day or 2 without access to your special ships cause the Admin unrestricted the wrong one) makes me tend to agree with Dizzy there... (too much tracking, no playtime...)

[Lepton]

The build cycle is once every three days, right?  At present each race is requesting at best 3 different ships or only 2 different ships, Ex.  Klinks: FD7K, D5D; Lyrans:  BCPp, CF; Feds: CF, CVS+, DNL; etc.  It's not as if there is a great deal of diversity in what is being requested and certainly no one is going to be requesting a Lyran mauler, or a D6DB.  At least prune out the command and specialty ships server side that no one is likely to want.  I'm sure there are as many examples popping up in the other races' shipyard that people are saying "What the hell is this doing here?"  If you don't want to alter the shiplist for the specialty and command ships every three days to reflect the builds making those the only ones available in the yards for that three day period, then at least just restrict out the ships that no one will want.  That should not negatively impact anyone and it is a one time fix that can free up some of the shipyard slots.

As it is now, I have the ship I want after waiting like 3 hours for it to pop up in the yard, and am unlikely to lose it any time soon as I will not be on the server very much.  So, I am perfectly content for everyone who isn't in an assigned ship to futz about in sub-standard ships while I have exactly the one I like.  PTHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

[762_XC]

If you think it's that easy Lepton, feel free to start your own campaign.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

The build cycle is once every three days, right?

One thing that Dizzy and company are doing differently, and that I like, is that you aren't required to fly the ship you are assigned right away.  You are really only assigned the "right" to buy the ship.   You can hold off until the time has arrived for your specialty ship, and then buy when its important.

This is cool, because it cuts down on the boredom factor of being forced to fly the same ship, day in and day out, for a long, long time.  The downside is that the specialty ships have to be in the shipyard all the time so you can buy them when needed.  But I think it is worth it.

-S'Cipio

[KBFLordKrueg]

If you think it's that easy Lepton, feel free to start your own campaign.

 

[Dizzy]

What I can do, is select a few 's' and 'c' ships that no one is buying and special them out. But that'd mean they wont show up in missions either. Do this enough and we will have plain vanilla ice cream with our slave girls... I like the ship variety in combat at the expense of slightly cluttered yards.

Make no mistake, tho, X ships will not be able to be spacedocked unless you have a second account. Once bought they will be specialed out till the next build.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Making the OOB ships not selected for production 'restricted' will prohibit them from appearing in the yard, while still allowing them to appear as AI.
At most, this would require a quick serverside shiplist edit once per build cycle (simply unrestrict the OOB ships that have been selected).

[Bonk]

Making the OOB ships not selected for production 'restricted' will prohibit them from appearing in the yard, while still allowing them to appear as AI.
At most, this would require a quick serverside shiplist edit once per build cycle (simply unrestrict the OOB ships that have been selected).

Yes this would work fine. You want to do it if people agree to it? (I really do not have the time for that level of additional maintenence right now)

Psst: here's what I've been working on lately with the OP+4 list (I want a set it and forget it oob... of course we still need to fix the SQL kit...):
http://www.frescos.dns2go.com:30033/oppoob/oobadmin.php

[Capt Jeff]

I want a set it and forget it oob...

Have you been watching the "Ronco"  rotory oven infomercials???   

"Just set it, and forget it!"  ....LOL.    (sorry, another high-on moment)   

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

That does indeed look interesting Bonk :-)

If you need help, with the shiplist, or with anything else at all, I'm happy to help.

[762_XC]

FWIW I think the yards are fine, other than the fact that I have yet to see a Z-CVS. If we're going to restrict unbuilt c and s ships I'm fine with that too.