Topic: what class is the lyran dnd??

[KHH Jakle]

First off, no knock against DH or Kroma, but who made them king of SFB, or SFC, or even the Lyran shiplist?  Why must we wait for a DECISION by them on this?

I gladly await their interpretation of all this info in this thread, but either they are gods, or I am just so small that I dont understand it, so someone clarify this for me please.

I made them the new gods of PBR.  I am not longer supporting it.  I offered them the opportunity to take the reins.  They agreed - back in March - with Kroma saying he intended to place the rules and Matrices on his site.  Either that happens, or PBR's current Rule and Matrix versions will remain the final one.  So, in any case, you all can collectively make a decision if you like...but it's to those two you need to turn to make the change 'legit'

Secondly, the DND, from what I have read so far, is a UNIQUE Destroyer sized ship, deriving from the center hull of a DN, with added wings for a stand alone ship that was used exclusively for planetary home defence, and then as an ESCORT, till it was time to rejoin the shipyard to become the DN it was meant to be, only to be destroyed in  it's final mission before returning to such said shipyard.  Please note the word UNIQUE, as in there was ever only 1, therefore it automatically should go into a category which there is no way you can take more than 1, but that does not make it a command ship

Also, that the CWL command rating is actually higher than the DND command rating, and yet they are both frigate class, Destroyer sized ships.
Granted the command rating is between the DD(4) and the CWL(6), but the 5 does not constitute a Command ship.

From this info(which all can be read above in this thread), my conclusion,(albeit apparently not worth a lot without the words of DH and Kroma(no offence meant to either of them)), is that the DND is not a command ship.
Furthermore,  Please note the word UNIQUE, as in there was ever only 1, therefore it automatically should go into a category which there is no way you can take more than 1, but that does not make it a command ship.

Now, you figure out which category has the Uniqueness of allowing the use of only 1 copy of a ship in a 3 ship formation, without it being a command ship, and that is where I would suggest you put it.

The answer to DFLY's logic points unerringly to marking the DND as not a command ship, but as it requires restriction, the only recourse is to then throw it in - you guessed - Support.  I've been waiting for someone to come along and win the stuffed animal with a nice succinct and clearly written argument.  Of course...convincing me really doesn't make a difference...

[KHH Jakle]

A CWL is a frigate?

Probably meant DWL

[TraumaTech]

Hi all.  Here is my 2.3 cents worth on all this
Now, you figure out which category has the Uniqueness of allowing the use of only 1 copy of a ship in a 3 ship formation, without it being a command ship, and that is where I would suggest you put it.

FSD likes your thinking Dfly....and thank you   

[Dfly]

My appologies on the CWL DWL thingy,  oops.

[762_XC]

Anyway a DWL is not a "frigate" in any sense other than Taldren's silly way of grouping ships. And whatever its command rating, it certainly IS a command ship (albeit one intended for smaller ships).

My feeling on the DND issue is that the Lyrans would have NEVER allowed such a ship into combat unless they were strategically in an extremely desperate position (which historically they were then). Doing so meant risking an extremely valuable and expensive DN upgrade, and for what? To get another destroyer on the board? It was a unique situation which resulted in a unique ship being used in a very limited way.

Anyway the question that should really be answered is a larger one, specifically regarding unique and conjectural ships and how they fit into PBR.

[KHH Jakle]

Anyway the question that should really be answered is a larger one, specifically regarding unique and conjectural ships and how they fit into PBR.

I posed that question before.  The general feeling I got was that no one wanted to expand PBR to cover unique/conjecturals.

[TraumaTech]

Anyway the question that should really be answered is a larger one, specifically regarding unique and conjectural ships and how they fit into PBR.

I posed that question before.  The general feeling I got was that no one wanted to expand PBR to cover unique/conjecturals.

being that the community is so small,why would you want to make pbr that much more confusing.Not that i am trying to keep the L-DND  as a "unrestricted ship",as it should be,based on present rule structures(we'll settle for "support"),but it seems like so much work all to keep one ship out of "unrestricted"category.Though,i will admit,it be interesting to see what other races ships would fall into unique/conjecturals category.Is there a list somewhere that shows each races unique/conjecturals ?????

[KHH Jakle]

Not unless you've got all the R sections of SFB handy, or at least a SFB Master Ship Chart.

Some off the top of my head though:
F-CAD (unique)
All Battleships except the Klinks are conjectural (only the Klinks actually built any and damned near bankrupt themselves doing it)
K-AD6 (conjectural)
A bunch of Rom Modular Dreads were either conjectural or unique


there's more, but that's all I can think of at the moment.