Topic: OP+ 4.0

[FireSoul]

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163350701.0.html

Nuf said? 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

*rubs hands together*

Been waiting on this....

DL'ing as I type!!

Can't wait to try the F-CS.

[FireSoul]

So? How is the F-CS?

[Hexx]

*rubs hands together*

Been waiting on this....

DL'ing as I type!!

Can't wait to try the F-CS.

LOL Uhmm Im thinking this ship may get restricted on most servers.
Although being able to do 31 holding 4 Photons and 1 ecm with 8Ph1's and 2 Drone racks, and of course effectively 4AMD
in 66 might not concern people as much as I think it will.

Anyone know what the design idea behind the Lioness CA (CAL) was?
Marine ship?

[FireSoul]

*rubs hands together*

Been waiting on this....

DL'ing as I type!!

Can't wait to try the F-CS.

LOL Uhmm Im thinking this ship may get restricted on most servers.
Although being able to do 31 holding 4 Photons and 1 ecm with 8Ph1's and 2 Drone racks, and of course effectively 4AMD
in 66 might not concern people as much as I think it will.

Anyone know what the design idea behind the Lioness CA (CAL) was?
Marine ship?

1- The F-CS Prometheus was a prototype. Only 1 was made. .. and 4AMDs? .. you mean 2, right? Yes, it should be restricted.





2- the L-CAL was to take the center of a DN (used when converting a CA to DN), and putting DD sides to it. Only 1 was made. They found that while this was an decent warship, it takes away the center from a DN which was a bad thing.

The center part has 15 warps, the DD sides have 8 warps each. That's 31 warps which is unique.



-- Luc

[Commander Maxillius]

*rubs hands together*

Been waiting on this....

DL'ing as I type!!

Can't wait to try the F-CS.

LOL Uhmm Im thinking this ship may get restricted on most servers.
Although being able to do 31 holding 4 Photons and 1 ecm with 8Ph1's and 2 Drone racks, and of course effectively 4AMD
in 66 might not concern people as much as I think it will.

Anyone know what the design idea behind the Lioness CA (CAL) was?
Marine ship?

66?  That's early era, right?  There are ships in late that can't hold 4 photons and do 31. 

There wouldn't happen to be any Romulan designs for a Warbird with a stolen Fed warp engine, would there?

[Ravok]

 Thanks FireSoul!

[Hexx]

*rubs hands together*

Been waiting on this....

DL'ing as I type!!

Can't wait to try the F-CS.

LOL Uhmm Im thinking this ship may get restricted on most servers.
Although being able to do 31 holding 4 Photons and 1 ecm with 8Ph1's and 2 Drone racks, and of course effectively 4AMD
in 66 might not concern people as much as I think it will.

Anyone know what the design idea behind the Lioness CA (CAL) was?
Marine ship?

1- The F-CS Prometheus was a prototype. Only 1 was made. .. and 4AMDs? .. you mean 2, right? Yes, it should be restricted.





-- Luc

Nah I saw it has 2AMD, but with also having 2 G racks not many drones are going to be hitting that puppy.  


As others have said FS, thanks!

You've done an amazing job (again)

Now any chance of a "future" OP update including things like the Lyran CV's /BCV's?
I know they can be added, but I'd love to see them get their own model folder.

Thanls Again!

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

F-CS+ is a decent ship for mid era. 

And the NCL can run 31 with 4 photons armed while having more spare power to boot.

Late era it will get 'pwn3d' except by you, Hexx.

I am worried about facing those new Klink mauler DN's though... K-MB10 with 57 batteries?!?!?!?!?!?

ACK!!!!

[Hexx]

True, but the NCL+ has 2 less Ph1's One less drone rack and one less AMD.
CS+ is a better ship, out 5(?) years earlier.

Now I have to run off and chaeck out that mauler you were looking at, make sure they're not better
than the Lyran ones..   

[FireSoul]

Now I have to run off and chaeck out that mauler you were looking at, make sure they're not better
than the Lyran ones..   

Only the Lyrans built a DN Mauler (the STL). The other ships are from R9 and are conjectural.
Before you ask, only the Gorns apparently build a War DN (the DNC which is in a CL somewhere). DNWs are CL or CW conversions to DNs. They mostly are sucky.

Only the ISC built an actual DNM. 2 in fact. DNMs are DNLs improved to DNH status, losing their fast status and returning to a move cost of 1.5. Why? This was done in X-ship era when all xships are 'fast'. DNLs are kinda a waste as they are and are far more effective as DNMs.

[FPF-DieHard]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser. 

PS.  Anyone else notie the Dro
ne Control on the F-DNH and K-C10K?   

[Hexx]

Tis OK anywya, imho the STL is better than the M8.
(Although the Rom Mauler DN with 50 (!) batteries and 9 Ph1's might be nasty.)

Yeah War DN's didn't impress me that much .
The Klingon DNM and Kzin DNM seem... nasty though (14Ph1 7 racks and 6 dizzies on the Klink,)
Of course the Fed one is worse.. (7 AMD and 7 Gracks I think?)
But is the Fed supposed to come out 10 years (effectively) after the otehrs, Lyran 77, Klink + Mirak 80, Feds 90?

(Havent looked at the ISC yet, lol)

[FireSoul]

Are you just looking at ship stats, or are you flying them and checking out the models too? There's a lot of new stuff in there..

[762_XC]

THANK YOU Firesoul, especially for the fighter group fixes!  

[Hexx]

Are you just looking at ship stats, or are you flying them and checking out the models too? There's a lot of new stuff in there..

Looking at the stats for the big beaasties Ill never fly, but going through the Lyrans ship by ship.
(Course I had to change all the models, but you've done such an excellent job I'll forgive you)

[FPF-DieHard]

Tis OK anywya, imho the STL is better than the M8.
(Although the Rom Mauler DN with 50 (!) batteries and 9 Ph1's might be nasty.)

Yeah War DN's didn't impress me that much .
The Klingon DNM and Kzin DNM seem... nasty though (14Ph1 7 racks and 6 dizzies on the Klink,)
Of course the Fed one is worse.. (7 AMD and 7 Gracks I think?)
But is the Fed supposed to come out 10 years (effectively) after the otehrs, Lyran 77, Klink + Mirak 80, Feds 90?

(Havent looked at the ISC yet, lol)

Um, hexx, the 7 AMD are the 7 AMD from the G-Racks.   It doesn't have 14 AMD.

DNMs would come out whenever X-ships become available.  Are they really any worse than the DNHs or the respective races?

[Hexx]

Tis OK anywya, imho the STL is better than the M8.
(Although the Rom Mauler DN with 50 (!) batteries and 9 Ph1's might be nasty.)

Yeah War DN's didn't impress me that much .
The Klingon DNM and Kzin DNM seem... nasty though (14Ph1 7 racks and 6 dizzies on the Klink,)
Of course the Fed one is worse.. (7 AMD and 7 Gracks I think?)
But is the Fed supposed to come out 10 years (effectively) after the otehrs, Lyran 77, Klink + Mirak 80, Feds 90?

(Havent looked at the ISC yet, lol)

Um, hexx, the 7 AMD are the 7 AMD from the G-Racks.   It doesn't have 14 AMD.

DNMs would come out whenever X-ships become available.  Are they really any worse than the DNHs or the respective races?

Hmm, well I count 7AMD on the ship as well as 7 G racks. Of course I haven't been paying attention alot so if the Grack fix has been done I'll just be quiet now.

Personally I think the DNm's are far superior to the DNH's. But I aslo know nothing of DN's (as I demonstarted the otehr night) so who am I to say.
Also only the Fed DnM (90) come out with the Xships, everything else seems to be 77 (Lyran) to 83 (Gorn and ISC?)

I really,really, really like the CAL thing btw, to bad they didn't do a power refit for it ...
 I'm sure I'd be almost invincible...

BTW isn't there supposed to be a L variant of the PFp's for the Lyrans?
- Not asking if FS missed something (what with 5k ships or so), just thought I remembered seeing one in the SSD books.

[Green]

Thanks FS for again breathing new life into an old game.   

[KBF-Crim]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser. 

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

[FPF-DieHard]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser. 

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

What's the D77?  What book?

[Hexx]

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sft/sft40.htm

Sheesh, EVen I knew about this.

And you're supposed to be a SFB Aficionado.

Of course the CAC is kinda amusing as well. 

[FPF-DieHard]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser. 

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

Saw the SSD.   Please tell me you are joking   

The F-CAC, OMG is this OTT!   

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sft/images/R2_j5_cac.gif

[Strafer]

Saw the SSD.   Please tell me you are joking   

T'is an old and silly joke, isn't it fellas? 

[762_XC]

Having tried the Fed and Hydran DNM's so far, they are no better than the equivalent DNH's. The H-DNM loses 2 power to the Regent, and the F-DNM is basically a DNH which swaps a Ph-3 for a G-rack. Sounds good until you realize the thing has 7 G-racks and 6 drone control. 

[Hexx]

The Lyran DNM is far inferior to the DNH (I think- again I know squat about DN's)
I really wish everyone would keep quiet about the drone control.
Was looking forward to Feds popping them on SGO.

[KBF-Crim]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser. 

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

Saw the SSD.   Please tell me you are joking   

The F-CAC, OMG is this OTT!   

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sft/images/R2_j5_cac.gif

Load up a D77 in ShipEdit...first thing you'll note is that she handles like a pig....all your dizzies are FA...and the thing is fighter bait on a plate....

Scary ship......yeah...sure ...on paper...

Although the CaC would be a wet dream escort....I still think it could fall prey to a concerted long range barrage....quite scary IMHO...

[Hexx]

Actually I like the "scary weapons" article.
Although I'm sure the Gatling Hellbore isn't as scary as I'm thinking,
I'm betting it wouldn't be to pleasant.

[Dizzy]

Sounds good until you realize the thing has 7 G-racks and 6 drone control. 

Hehe, the C10K has 6 drone ctrl and 8 B-racks.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

So what's the reason for having more drone racks than control allows for? ???

[Dizzy]

Well it used to have 12. But the whole FS project is moving right along toward SFB town and leaving SFC behind altogether. Which is good and bad. This is a popular move for the Klingon playerbase, lol!

[IndyShark]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser. 

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

Saw the SSD.   Please tell me you are joking   

The F-CAC, OMG is this OTT!   

I can't read this very well. Is the CAC armed with 6 DTTY? What the heck is that?

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sft/images/R2_j5_cac.gif

[Hexx]

The CAC is armed with 16 PhG's and One drone rack.

[762_XC]

Well it used to have 12. But the whole FS project is moving right along toward SFB town and leaving SFC behind altogether. Which is good and bad. This is a popular move for the Klingon playerbase, lol!

Since every server admin can adjust the shiplist to their own desires and needs, this really only affects GSA play.

[Dizzy]

16 PhG's under range 3 would do at least 192 points. That's good to give a DN a very bad day and anything else certain death. Scary ship. Should they be available as regular line ships on SG4?

j/k

[FPF-Wanderer]

Sounds good until you realize the thing has 7 G-racks and 6 drone control. 

Hehe, the C10K has 6 drone ctrl and 8 B-racks.

So what's the reason for having more drone racks than control allows for? ???

Well it used to have 12. But the whole FS project is moving right along toward SFB town and leaving SFC behind altogether. Which is good and bad. This is a popular move for the Klingon playerbase, lol!

As we all know, the drone control rating of a ship is equal (or double) to it's sensor rating, which on most  ships is 6.  I say most, as there are many ships that have sensor ratings other than six.  The C10 is a good example.  It's sensor rating is 8, which means it should have a drone control of 8, not 6.  The Fed DNH has a sensor rating of 10, thus should have a drone control of 10.  I think the confusion here has to do with how the sensor rating is shown on the SSD's.  Each box has a number, starting with 0 and ending with 6.  These numbers have to do with die rolls on a 1d6 (as your sensors take damage and boxes are checked off), not the sensor rating itself.  So, the question becomes, is there some limitation in the game that requires a drone control of 6 or 12?  I have not tested this myself.

Of course, I'm not up on the ins and outs of the SFB rule set concerning this, so I could be wrong.  Any old-time SFBers want to clear this up for me?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Round it back up to 12 if you can't have 8 or 10. It's insufficent control for what the ship carries.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Went and did some testing...drone control rating is NOT limited to 6 or 12.  I tried the F-DNH with 10 d.c. and the K-C10K with 8 d.c. and sure enough, could only control 10 and 8 drones, respectively.

And taking a look through the shiplist and a number of different ssd's...yup, there would be a lot of changes to the drone races' drone control ability.  Personally, I think this needs discussion.

EDIT:  Ok, I've been corrected in some MSN discussions on this, I guess the drone control always starts as 6 (or 12).

[Hexx]

I really don't see any need for drone control to be upped.
Personally I think it will make us all better players if we leave the control rating low.

[KBF-Crim]

IIRC...the Taldren standard was "any ship having 4 or more racks" was supposed to have 12 control...take it for what it is...

[FPF-DieHard]

Sounds good until you realize the thing has 7 G-racks and 6 drone control. 

Hehe, the C10K has 6 drone ctrl and 8 B-racks.

So what's the reason for having more drone racks than control allows for? ???

Well it used to have 12. But the whole FS project is moving right along toward SFB town and leaving SFC behind altogether. Which is good and bad. This is a popular move for the Klingon playerbase, lol!

As we all know, the drone control rating of a ship is equal (or double) to it's sensor rating, which on most  ships is 6.  I say most, as there are many ships that have sensor ratings other than six.  The C10 is a good example.  It's sensor rating is 8, which means it should have a drone control of 8, not 6.  The Fed DNH has a sensor rating of 10, thus should have a drone control of 10.  I think the confusion here has to do with how the sensor rating is shown on the SSD's.  Each box has a number, starting with 0 and ending with 6.  These numbers have to do with die rolls on a 1d6 (as your sensors take damage and boxes are checked off), not the sensor rating itself.  So, the question becomes, is there some limitation in the game that requires a drone control of 6 or 12?  I have not tested this myself.

Of course, I'm not up on the ins and outs of the SFB rule set concerning this, so I could be wrong.  Any old-time SFBers want to clear this up for me?

Wanderer is right, the drone control should be equal to the sensor rating.  I missed this to.   

Um, Dizzy?  weesa gonna have a busy day tommorow.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Don't worry about it, DH.  After some discussion (and me finally tracking down the rules in the Basic book), it would seem that the drone control/sensor rating is almost always 6, the number of sensor boxes on the ssd is for damage allocation (hull boxes I guess).

Although, changing the drone control ratings to equal the number of sensor boxes (but of course keeping the double rating were applicable) would lower the control on many drone carrying ships, giving a little more parity (slight, but there) to the plasma races in mission times...but that's not a flame war I'm willing to start, lol.

[762_XC]

Some confusion arises upon examination of the shiplist proper. The "Sensor" column is actually equal to the number of boxes on the sensor track, not the undamaged sensor rating, which is almost always 6.

[Age]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser.

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

You got the K- D7CR  and  what a ship that is.

[FPF-DieHard]

It's 3 AM, I'm, drunk and doing sorts in Excel . . . .

And I really need to STFU right now 

EDIT:   Read the rule moron before posting (to self)

[Dizzy]

lol

[Green]

IIRC...the Taldren standard was "any ship having 4 or more racks" was supposed to have 12 control...take it for what it is...

The Taldren Z-CD has 6 racks and has always had 6 drone control.  Same for the Taldren Z-DF and many others.  K-E4D has 4 racks, but only 6 control.

[KBF-Crim]

And an E4D is a frig....apples and cherries...

The C7 and C7V have four racks....and 12 drone control

The D5E ,AD5, AD6, D5D, D6D all have 12....

Even the F5D has 12 control....

[KBF-Crim]

oh yeah BTW...while the Z-CD does indeed only have 6....Taldrens DF does have 12 control ....

also ...if we go by the proposed changes and apply them without regard to who's ships they are...ships like the Z-CCH would drop from 12 to 6 also...

So dropping an 8 rack ship from 12 to 6 control based on sensor rating of 8.... should  be simularly applied across the board to all ships....or not at all...

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

F-BCG has 4 racks and 6 drone control.

Just adding fuel for the fire.

[KBF-Crim]

 

[KBF-Crim]

The F-DE also has 4 racks...and 12 drone control...and a sensor count of 6...

Yes..the F-BCE has an 8 rating...but not the BCG..it only has 6...

While the BCV has a 6 rating...and 12 control....

Not trying to start any arguements...just not seeing as where this logic is evenly applied elsewhere in the shiplist...

Keep in mind I'm not an SFB guru either....maybe I'm missing something?...special sensors?

I'd like this on the fix list ...IMHO...it should actually be 8 like it's supposed to be..but will take a client side fix......oh yeah...and have the abilty to lend channels like in SFB

[FPF-Wanderer]

Ummm, did anyone read that I was mistaken? 

[Dizzy]

Yes, you were were heard. sg4 will remain as we have been accustomed. 6 or 12 drone control.

[FPF-DieHard]

And an E4D is a frig....apples and cherries...

The C7 and C7V have four racks....and 12 drone control

The D5E ,AD5, AD6, D5D, D6D all have 12....

Even the F5D has 12 control....

F-BCG and F-DNG = 4 racks = 6 Drone Control

Klingon C8 = 6 Racks = 6 Drone Control

Where did you get the idea that all ships with 4 racks + had 12 control?   It simply is not true.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

F-BCG has 6 DC yet the F-BCV has 12...

[FPF-DieHard]

F-BCG has 6 DC yet the F-BCV has 12...

Carriers all have double control.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Went and did some testing...drone control rating is NOT limited to 6 or 12.  I tried the F-DNH with 10 d.c. and the K-C10K with 8 d.c. and sure enough, could only control 10 and 8 drones, respectively.

And taking a look through the shiplist and a number of different ssd's...yup, there would be a lot of changes to the drone races' drone control ability.  Personally, I think this needs discussion.

EDIT:  Ok, I've been corrected in some MSN discussions on this, I guess the drone control always starts as 6 (or 12).

It is not limited to 6 or 12.  Bonk's server works fine with various drone control numbers and I'm all for it as it might help reduce the problem of mission time disparities to some degree. 

[Green]

And an E4D is a frig....apples and cherries...

Re-read your post Crim ... you said 4 racks = 12 drone control.  You didn't note any caveats. 

And yes, the z-df does have 12.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Hey anyone see the plasma races X-H-AC's?

Have fun getting a drone in on them, no matter what your DC is....

[762_XC]

F-BCG has 6 DC yet the F-BCV has 12...

Carriers all have double control.

As well as escorts.

Droners are a mixed bag. The Kzinti CD as I recall was only supposed to carry self-guiding Type-III's for long range bombardment, hence the single drone control. Obviously we don't have those in SFC.

Dreadnoughts of course were always escorted by other warships to transfer control to, and almost always a scout, which could use a scout channel to control additional seeking weapons.

So drone control for dreads was never really an issue in SFB; due to the nature of SFC though, I wonder if single drone control on a dread really makes sense.

[FPF-DieHard]

So drone control for dreads was never really an issue in SFB; due to the nature of SFC though, I wonder if single drone control on a dread really makes sense.

Could the same be said about BCH ships as they have a command rating 10?   They were always supposed to be in fleets as well.

What about command cruisers?

[Dizzy]

I'm gonna open up a concession stand. <snicker>

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm gonna open up a concession stand. <snicker>

Make sure it sells cheese 

[KBF-Crim]

True DH...many of these ships wouldnt be caught without escorts or some type of fleet in SFB senarios from my understanding...

Green...rgr tht...I was just going by what I recalled...

I guess the correct question would be...

How many other ships have more drone racks, than drone control ?

If it can be set at 8...cool beans...just make it what it is supposed to be...

[Hexx]

Look -
Just set drone control to 4 across the board and everyone will be happy.

[KBF-Crim]

Look -
Just set drone control to 4 across the board and everyone will be happy.

[Ravok]

Look -
Just set drone control to 4 across the board and everyone will be happy.

  Good icon! Kinda says it all.

[Hexx]

Please, just because you guys need the drone "crutch" to compete doesn't mean it's a bad idea...

[KBF-Crim]

"One man's cheese, is another man's only hope for survival"...KBF-Crim

 

[Hexx]

"One man's cheese, is another man's only hope for survival"...KBF-Crim

 

 

ROTFLMAO
Thats gotta be worth a Karma..

[FPF-DieHard]

"One man's cheese, is another man's only hope for survival"...KBF-Crim

 

Tactics?   

[Mace]

This is definately one of those 'needs to be looked at'  things.

The idea that thises ships would never be caught out in the open without escorts works well in SFB but for SFC it just doesn't hold water.  Even if i had 2 wingmen with me in my C10K I still couldn't launch out the 8 drones and a scatter pack as drone control transfers don't happen.

Some middle ground should be reachable....but then again........

[FPF-DieHard]

The idea that thises ships would never be caught out in the open without escorts works well in SFB but for SFC it just doesn't hold water.  Even if i had 2 wingmen with me in my C10K I still couldn't launch out the 8 drones and a scatter pack as drone control transfers don't happen.

Human or AI wingmen?   You share drone control channels with your AI wings.

[Mace]

The idea that thises ships would never be caught out in the open without escorts works well in SFB but for SFC it just doesn't hold water.  Even if i had 2 wingmen with me in my C10K I still couldn't launch out the 8 drones and a scatter pack as drone control transfers don't happen.

Human or AI wingmen?   You share drone control channels with your AI wings.

But....we no likey fleets around these parts, so yeah I was talking about human wingmen.

[[KBF]MuadDib]

thx FS and to the many others who contributed!!!

[Merlinfmct87]

The F-CS should be considered a specialty ship like a fast cruiser.

When the D77 makes the list...sure...

Saw the SSD.   Please tell me you are joking   

The F-CAC, OMG is this OTT!   

http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sft/images/R2_j5_cac.gif

You... *didn't...*

holy sh*t you did!

Merlin

[FireSoul]

no I didn't. There's no way I would add that in.