Topic: Question for modders (using models)

[Hexx]

First I'd of course like to thank everyone who has worked on/or is working on mods involving different
models for your shiplists.
But..

Is there a way that all the model in different mods could be say standardized off a certain list?

Ex- Firesould has his 3.4 list, Bonk has done the SFB OP list, is there a way that all the "extra" models generated could be taken from the standard list?
I certainly mean no offence, but after having spent x number of, well hours it seems changing all the models in OP+ to the ones I like, I install Bonks SFB mod, it point to a bunch of new model folders, and I have to change them all again. Then say SGO comes along and I may have to change the models yet again.

Of course I'd rather have to change all the models than not have these mods to play, but

Can it be set up so that say, OP+ , Bonks Mod, SGO mod, Server XXX mod all take (for example) all Lyran CA class ships from the Lyran CA main directory.
All DN models form the DN main directory.etc
I would also think this would decrease the size of downloads needed as they wouldn't have to have all the extra ships, unless they of course introduced a new race etc.

Again not to complain (well really) but some of you who have dome so much for the community( Firesoul,Bonk) are great modders, but you have
abysmal taste in ships... 

[Dizzy]

FS has a no models version. This, iirc, copies the existing Lyran models from the stock directory and creates new folders in the OPPlus folder and then the copies are created for all the different shiplist entries.

In his models version, many if not all of these models in the OPPlus folder are new. The stock models are not touched.

I'll let you decide which you want.

In SG4, you will be required to have installed a stock copy of OP that is patched in addition to FS's 3.4. SG4 will then copy a few select stock models and create new folders in a newly created SGO folder. Your stock models and the OPPlus models will not be touched.

[Bonk]

Firesoul and I both approach modding so as to disturb the stock install as little as possible.

What you propose, while it has some logic to it, would make for a hellish job in creation of installers and uninstallers. (and would significantly inrease required disk space for backup of stock models.) Not to mention compatibility of installers... Campaign installers would take much, much longer to create...

The stock game uses 182 models. OP+3.4 uses 282 custom models. SFB-OP-04 uses 344 custom models.

My current installer for SFB-OP-04 installs the models with one line of code in the install script.

What you propose, for sfb-op, would require at least 344 additional lines to install the models to individual preexisting locations,
at least another 688 lines to check for existing models in those locations and back them up. Then a similar amount of code would be required in the uninstaller.

People tend to get upset if you mess with their stock model folders. A lot of people have customised their game over many years (in exactly the way you describe) they do not want anybody messing with that. They fear losing all their customisations which took so long to make. While FS and I could do what you suggest without messing up peoples model folders, it would be terribly complicated and a major pain in the ass. And would others be so careful?

I can see why from the users perspective it looks like a good idea, but it is just not practical from my point of view.

In my opinion mods should not touch the stock model folders at all.

However, this still leaves room for some standardisation to make it easier perhaps...

[Hexx]

Bonk, buddy
All you had to say was "Hexx you're a frickin genius, but I'm far too lazy to do waht you would suggest, even though it is undoubtably the most brilliant idea ever suggested in modding"

As I said no worries if it's that hard, Id rather have the mods and have to switch my ships around,
Just gets kinda tiresome putting the Lyran CA's?BC/BCH/DN's etc in for 3.4 then doing it again for UAW, then for SFB OP
the (Im assuming) for SGO.
Really Im just lazy I guess. 

[FireSoul]

"Hexx you're a frickin genius, but I'm far too lazy to do waht you would suggest, even though it is undoubtably the most brilliant idea ever suggested in modding"

"Hexx, are you NUTS?! Screw that. I have better things to do."

[Hexx]

<sigh> No one appreciates a genius in his own time...

[FireSoul]

<sigh> No one appreciates a genius in his own time...

.. yeah I know.. it sucks.

[FireSoul]

.. wow.. I lost 3 points of karma over that comment...

Take it easy people.. what Hexx is asking is unreasonable. The idea of a mod is not to be standardized. Everyone will do things their own way.

[Dizzy]

Well, at least FS appears to understand Hexx. I can't. That's the problem with geniuses, they only make sense to themselves...

Hey, can we start a Hexx bashing flame thread?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

While I agree completely that we should preserve the stock installation when modifying the game, Hexx's comments are not without merit. I also spend a lot of time having to swap models, and I know of many others that do as well. The real problem is not so much having another installation folder, like the one used for FS's OP+, which adds in extra models for new ships leaving the stock Taldren models untouched. The problem occurs when we have multiple shiplists, each with their own models, all using different folders, and sometimes these folders are incompatible.

Now, we could create a new standardised folder that leaves the stock folder untouched, but then new mods will end up changing models needed by other mods. The other issue, also, is that not everyone actually uses new models and still uses the stock models. There is as much diversity here as there are players. Even an automated solution (say a program which does all the changing for you) would still require your input on a ship per ship basis to suit your own tastes.

Nearly all D2 campaigns are based on FS's OP+ list, so unless new ships are added with custom models, or for some reason there is a need to replace an existing model in OP+, we can minimise the problem by using as much of the existing models as possible, and only create new folders for models as required by that particular campaign. I think this is what most people running campaigns do anyway.

[FPF-DieHard]

Why re-invent the wheel? 

FS has already done a wonderful job on the models for OP+ (I've been shown most of the new stuff from the next version and it is amazing) that when I make a mod, I simply use the great work that has already been done.

IMHO, OP+ is stock.

[FireSoul]

Why re-invent the wheel? 

FS has already done a wonderful job on the models for OP+ (I've been shown most of the new stuff from the next version and it is amazing) that when I make a mod, I simply use the great work that has already been done.

IMHO, OP+ is stock.

I'm glad to read this, because if OP+ is stock then stock is about to go to a new level.

[Hexx]

Actually leaving one Mod (I assume OP+) as a base is kinda what I meant.
I think it was just the week- but I installed UAW and had to switch a bunch of models around, then Bonk's
install, and I had to switch Lyran BC's around again.
And I gave you a big + karma FS, I have no idea why someone would bash you for something you said to me
(but I do appreciate it guys!)