Topic: Capital ships Escorting each other

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Yes... closer to SFB/F&E, as you say, being closer to the D2... you make an interesting point here Kroma. I am actually arguing that D2 is not like F&E and that it is impractical to make the D2 exactly like F&E. Many aspects of F&E certainly relate to the D2 and I would like to see as much as possible of a F&E type system incorporated into D2 campaigns, but the D2 campaigns of today are a far cry from the original D2 campaign play of yesteryear purely because of all the rules we have created for campaigns. Take away all those rules, and play a D2 campaign with just what is imposed by game mechanics, and it is not F&E at all.

With SQL, however, we can certainly do a lot more, until then we have relied upon arbitrary rules that must be enforced (eg, telling a player that they cannot fly this or that ship, but they can fly these ones, etc.). My point is that we can go overboard here, too many arbitrary rules detract from the fun factor in my opinion. Focussing on game mechanics and incorporating rules into the system is a better avenue, in my opinion.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Yes... closer to SFB/F&E, as you say, being closer to the D2... you make an interesting point here Kroma. I am actually arguing that D2 is not like F&E and that it is impractical to make the D2 exactly like F&E. Many aspects of F&E certainly relate to the D2 and I would like to see as much as possible of a F&E type system incorporated into D2 campaigns, but the D2 campaigns of today are a far cry from the original D2 campaign play of yesteryear purely because of all the rules we have created for campaigns. Take away all those rules, and play a D2 campaign with just what is imposed by game mechanics, and it is not F&E at all.

With SQL, however, we can certainly do a lot more, until then we have relied upon arbitrary rules that must be enforced (eg, telling a player that they cannot fly this or that ship, but they can fly these ones, etc.). My point is that we can go overboard here, too many arbitrary rules detract from the fun factor in my opinion. Focussing on game mechanics and incorporating rules into the system is a better avenue, in my opinion.

Yes we basically agree here. I would like to se the F&E elements integrated into the D2 itself, to reduce the rules clutter. I also agree that any rules added need to be seriously thought out and simplified if possible or eliminated if unnecessary. This is infact one of those rules I think would be clutter as it is unnecessary.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

You and I usually do agree on most things Kroma 

[Dizzy]

while sql shipyards r a cool idea... they wont be a fun or popular thing. It sucks ass having to go to a website to buy a ship. u can never police that sorta thing anyway. There are still a few unscrupulous peeps lurking in the shadows... SQL ship assignment may be better... But the bottom line is that you can never replace the shipyard in the game with a web based shipyard. It wont fly.

What is more important, is the balance in player numbers, available capitol/specialty ships and attrition. Oh and throw fun into the mix. Above all it has to be fun. You figure out this equation and I'll email you a 20 dollar bill.

SQL can make some things easier, but it is a pipe dream to think it is the answer for ship control. You are smoking something...

Afa capitol ships escorting each other and PBR rules, I do think it a wise idea to limit a maximum of 2x dreads or higher in any single hex at a time. Hrmmm. Mb that will be a SG rule. 3x Dreads and up in the same hex, in the same mission. ::coughs:: BS ::coughs::

[KBF-Crim]

It would seem...with the promise of SQL , the server kit code,and possibly the client code....that we might be able to disect exacly how the draft works....even during a pile on...

If this is determined...maybe we can add in other factors to generate specific missions or opponents based upon the composition if the attackers..or defenders....

Until a feature makes this moot...I'd say yeah...one player should have to abide by some kind of CnC to fly a fleet...but luck of the draft means maybe drawing to human pilots in BCH's...such is game...

[Kroma BaSyl]

while sql shipyards r a cool idea... they wont be a fun or popular thing. It sucks ass having to go to a website to buy a ship. u can never police that sorta thing anyway. There are still a few unscrupulous peeps lurking in the shadows... SQL ship assignment may be better... But the bottom line is that you can never replace the shipyard in the game with a web based shipyard. It wont fly.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, or what is possible with a web based SQL implementation of a shipyard. You can absolutely police it with access control functionality and a simple security model. What the hell kind of database other than SQL based do you think they run your online bank off of.

SQL can make some things easier, but it is a pipe dream to think it is the answer for ship control. You are smoking something...

I am going to assume you either got yourself a hold of some really good reefer, or are just to technically inept to understand what is actually possible with an SQL based shipyard, (which is to say, anything you could think up under the sun). There is simply no limit to what could be done. It is only a small matter of programming.

[Kroma BaSyl]

It would seem...with the promise of SQL , the server kit code,and possibly the client code....that we might be able to disect exacly how the draft works....even during a pile on...

If this is determined...maybe we can add in other factors to generate specific missions or opponents based upon the composition if the attackers..or defenders....

Yes it could.

Until a feature makes this moot...I'd say yeah...one player should have to abide by some kind of CnC to fly a fleet...but luck of the draft means maybe drawing to human pilots in BCH's...such is game...

agreed

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

while sql shipyards r a cool idea... they wont be a fun or popular thing. It sucks ass having to go to a website to buy a ship. u can never police that sorta thing anyway. There are still a few unscrupulous peeps lurking in the shadows... SQL ship assignment may be better... But the bottom line is that you can never replace the shipyard in the game with a web based shipyard. It wont fly.

What is more important, is the balance in player numbers, available capitol/specialty ships and attrition. Oh and throw fun into the mix. Above all it has to be fun. You figure out this equation and I'll email you a 20 dollar bill.

SQL can make some things easier, but it is a pipe dream to think it is the answer for ship control. You are smoking something...

Afa capitol ships escorting each other and PBR rules, I do think it a wise idea to limit a maximum of 2x dreads or higher in any single hex at a time. Hrmmm. Mb that will be a SG rule. 3x Dreads and up in the same hex, in the same mission. ::coughs:: BS ::coughs::

A php web-based shipyard is only limited by creativity and programming skill. An RM could for instance 'order' what ships will be built for that round on the website, the ships then become available to players to go to the website and collect. How would they do this? By using a password of course, so there would be no issue with the wrong player picking up the wrong ship. The in game shipyard could still be populated with attrition units, ideally on such a server you set the death ship (ship given to you after you are killed) to be something very small. A shpiyard website could also be used to 'garage' ships you want to keep for later, and also to return a ship you no longer want to spacedock for someone else to use. The only time you need to go to the website is really to collect a specialty ship, or a ship governed by OOB rules. Given that currently, a player needs to be assigned a ship anyway and cannot simply by it from the shipyard, or like on SS2, players had to log in at a specific time to collect their ship, this is not so different and affords much more flexibility.

Production of ships can all be automated, RMs would not even need to post what ships they want for that round or calculate how many build points, etc. They can go to the website, at their leisure and make their choices, and players can also go to the website at their leisure. If you can come here to make a post in this forum, then I'm sure going to a website to collect a ship is not much more difficult. Ship production can also be effectively linked to empire economy as well, making economy meaningful, which opens up other tsrategic levels of play, such as improving the econ of hexes to build up your shipyard capacity, perhaps even with shipyard contruction missions. Conversely economic saboutage missions that lower the econ of enemy hexes take on meaning as well. Convoy raids and escorts could actually server a purpose. Even planet colony missions to build up econ and so on.

[Kroma BaSyl]

A php web-based shipyard is only limited by creativity and programming skill. An RM could for instance 'order' what ships will be built for that round on the website, the ships then become available to players to go to the website and collect. How would they do this? By using a password of course, so there would be no issue with the wrong player picking up the wrong ship. The in game shipyard could still be populated with attrition units, ideally on such a server you set the death ship (ship given to you after you are killed) to be something very small. A shpiyard website could also be used to 'garage' ships you want to keep for later, and also to return a ship you no longer want to spacedock for someone else to use. The only time you need to go to the website is really to collect a specialty ship, or a ship governed by OOB rules. Given that currently, a player needs to be assigned a ship anyway and cannot simply by it from the shipyard, or like on SS2, players had to log in at a specific time to collect their ship, this is not so different and affords much more flexibility.

Production of ships can all be automated, RMs would not even need to post what ships they want for that round or calculate how many build points, etc. They can go to the website, at their leisure and make their choices, and players can also go to the website at their leisure. If you can come here to make a post in this forum, then I'm sure going to a website to collect a ship is not much more difficult. Ship production can also be effectively linked to empire economy as well, making economy meaningful, which opens up other tsrategic levels of play, such as improving the econ of hexes to build up your shipyard capacity, perhaps even with shipyard contruction missions. Conversely economic saboutage missions that lower the econ of enemy hexes take on meaning as well. Convoy raids and escorts could actually server a purpose. Even planet colony missions to build up econ and so on.

I love it when you talk dirty. That would all be sooo cool.

[Dizzy]

Kroma, stop it already with the super positivenessiness of yours. For every good idea, there needs to be a critic. W/o grumpy assholish complainers, nothing ever gets improved. Frankly Im getting tired of all the upbeat happy peeps around here. Its getting me depressed. Someone tell someone to stfu. When's the last time we had a good flame thread?

Unless the 'programming' will assign me my ship automatically while in game w/o having to go to a website just like purchasing a normal shipyard ship... cool. What you are proposing with those little passwords and crap, is more complication and unecessary toil and trouble. Logging out and going to a website... Thats ridiculous. A ship needs to pop up in the yards with my f*cking name on it or it needs to be an auto edit. What the hell is the difference from the way it's currently setup now other than having to go to a website now to get a ship?

Kroma, u want some of this? I have more... I am smoking the bowl... get it while it lasts.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Unless the 'programming' will assign me my ship automatically while in game w/o having to go to a website just like purchasing a normal shipyard ship... cool. What you are proposing with those little passwords and crap, is more complication and unecessary toil and trouble. Logging out and going to a website... Thats ridiculous. A ship needs to pop up in the yards with my f*cking name on it or it needs to be an auto edit. What the hell is the difference from the way it's currently setup now other than having to go to a website now to get a ship?

Honestly Dizzy, I only have one question for you. Who wipes your ass for you?

It isn't just the simple matter of the process of assigning ships that SQL allows, iIt is any crazy OOB system and means of allocation you can dream up. Happy, happy, joy, joy.

XOXOXO
Kroma

PS, Dizzy STFU already.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Kroma, stop it already with the super positivenessiness of yours. For every good idea, there needs to be a critic. W/o grumpy assholish complainers, nothing ever gets improved. Frankly Im getting tired of all the upbeat happy peeps around here. Its getting me depressed. Someone tell someone to stfu. When's the last time we had a good flame thread?

Unless the 'programming' will assign me my ship automatically while in game w/o having to go to a website just like purchasing a normal shipyard ship... cool. What you are proposing with those little passwords and crap, is more complication and unecessary toil and trouble. Logging out and going to a website... Thats ridiculous. A ship needs to pop up in the yards with my f*cking name on it or it needs to be an auto edit. What the hell is the difference from the way it's currently setup now other than having to go to a website now to get a ship?

Kroma, u want some of this? I have more... I am smoking the bowl... get it while it lasts.

No OOB system ever used has ever been able to do this, as I pointed out earlier. As soon as you make the distinction between generally available ships and restricted ships, you must have some mechanism by which to do this. Simply going to the ingame shipyard and buying it as normal, is therefore impossible, unless there is some kind of password.

Just exactly how do you propose this should work?

[Dizzy]

yaya, but its gotta EASE the admin load, not increase it. I am talking SERIOUS automation here. I am talking SUPER simplicity. I am talking uberness added fun factor. You package that up in one nice dress size a little smaller than the one you parade around in and Ill buy it. Oh, and lizzard thing, ck ur PM's. I sent u a holiday greeting.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The difference is that you can actually order a ship to be produced via SQL Like Bonk had on his webmap for his test server.  You place an order for anyship that is able to be produced at the time regardless of whether it is in the server yards, then the next yard cycle it appears with your bid already on it whether you are on the server or not.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

The difference is that you can actually order a ship to be produced via SQL Like Bonk had on his webmap for his test server.  You place an order for anyship that is able to be produced at the time regardless of whether it is in the server yards, then the next yard cycle it appears with your bid already on it whether you are on the server or not.

Oh really?? That's even better. So when you log back in, you're ship is already bought and waiting for you to fly... excellent! 

Can't get much more automated than that unless you want an autopilot to fly the ship as well.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Can't get much more automated than that unless you want an autopilot to fly the ship as well.

Well for Kzin that should be easy, just make a macro that repeatably presses the drone launch key.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Can't get much more automated than that unless you want an autopilot to fly the ship as well.

Well for Kzin that should be easy, just make a macro that repeatably presses the drone launch key.

and for Kroma its even easier, just have any CB bought instantly hit the self destruct buttom upon entering mission   

[Soreyes]

The difference is that you can actually order a ship to be produced via SQL Like Bonk had on his webmap for his test server.  You place an order for anyship that is able to be produced at the time regardless of whether it is in the server yards, then the next yard cycle it appears with your bid already on it whether you are on the server or not.

What I liked about Bonks Web Map Shipyard. Was that it was broken into Three parts. Part one was ships and Star Bases that could be produced....  But were restricted. Part 2 was the ships that could be produced and where you could order a ship. Part 3 was the ships currently in the ship yard. Now this just absolutely ROCKED!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

while sql shipyards r a cool idea... they wont be a fun or popular thing. It sucks ass having to go to a website to buy a ship. u can never police that sorta thing anyway. There are still a few unscrupulous peeps lurking in the shadows... SQL ship assignment may be better... But the bottom line is that you can never replace the shipyard in the game with a web based shipyard. It wont fly.

Keltset's SQL servers used a seperate shipyard via the in-game general chat.  You never had to leave the D2 to order your ship.  You typed a command in chat the showed you what ships were available in your races shipyard, then typed another command to order what you wanted.  The ship you were currently in was returned to the yard.

And, of course, he could program exactly what appeared in this  yard.

That should fix your web worries.

-S'Cipio

[Bonk]

while sql shipyards r a cool idea... they wont be a fun or popular thing. It sucks ass having to go to a website to buy a ship. u can never police that sorta thing anyway. There are still a few unscrupulous peeps lurking in the shadows... SQL ship assignment may be better... But the bottom line is that you can never replace the shipyard in the game with a web based shipyard. It wont fly.

Unless your php (or perl or asp or python...) shipyard is an automated script that runs as a cron job that no one ever sees as a webpage; it just manages the shipyards. The shipyard would work as it always had as far as the player is concerned. Not quite there yet as I need an OoB to work from, hopefully the 'rarity' column of coming versions of OP+ will make it easier. We just need to stabilise the SQL kit. Feel like helping out?