Topic: Late Era TNG discusion thread

[OlBuzzard]

Any chance you can tell me where to get Starship Creator ? ...  I would like to look at it please.

thanks

[markyd]

Its quite old... It came out the same time as klingon academy

[ModelsPlease]

Yup it's real old.

[OlBuzzard]

No bother.

[ModelsPlease]

There was also a second edition IIRC.


Here ya go......on sale  cheap.

http://www60.overture.com/d/sr/?xargs=15KPjg195S64K9k7PyMPiIRvydhRlLit7srYsuVs8uAYYBrW0lJoNiDeeQ2YYgFKwInUyFnLbLvuRYUpDmmbXWS1DVHA3mQLfi34zBxYg6P7nyVNBHh6V9v57kn4dPNHoGammzecT81t%5F8EdGITnpM%5Fo0Avm7qi4Jqw9nknLOiJYrsqwo79lzQIJIN76UohcTFP9lcG%5FAGJ62vrleecpxJud8BkO7SP1YSWShW11xo8wfVKTAvkZ7jfY8IubX4n%5F6fGJbrwKAqZkKU9vUX722Aiz2QyoNlP3KUzcoZk1MFXfitPmWDyQZ8MonPzw7yGd51%5FUnPRM3ZCXXpYERlfkd1ROXkPEO%2DdCN4vEvFfsgFL6b3pHDiRfLfUn5IKg5dgIbqJYNF4Q3IyjprC2eYR4OV6XESP6lfllvueluWBHFvzanXx%2DiLHOQe6sPYzAfPVFJiiA%2E%2E&yargs=www.shopping.com

Hehehehe long link ain't it ? 
-MP

[Age]

LOL I just find 'em but.......here's 2 I wipped up. What do ya think?



And



Amazing what ya can do with STARSHIP CREATOR
 
-MP

What are these Federation BBs? ModelsPlease I was wondering can you make a I Fed. BB based on the lines of the current designs and a Klingon BB with same as the Fed.Thanks. btw What a fine couple of models

[markyd]

ROFL.....

Age..... Starship creator was a game made for you to build you own starships, then send them into missions and test them out... it was like fitting together a jigsaw, they would provide loads of different parts and you stuck them together 

I think their was the option in starship creator to import your ships into klingon acadamy, in which case they would be in LWO format and could probably be converted to .mod with relative ease 

What say you MP.. up for the challenge

[ModelsPlease]

Heck yeah I will give it a shot when I get back from vacation. I will check in now and again for the next 2 weeks. Merry Christmas everyone and God bless each of you and your loved ones during this season and for ever there after

MP

[Captain Pierce]

I think their was the option in starship creator to import your ships into klingon acadamy

IIRC, it was Dominion Wars. 

OK, I can understand the urge to kitbash, but what's the deal with the Excelsior/Intrepid Akiras?   

There are two problems I've always seen with the Akira.  First, as mentioned in the original post, those booms going back to the weapon pod just make the whole thing look a little flimsy.  They're actually more substantial than most nacelle struts on Federation ships, though...    Secondly, I've never been able to figure out where the warp core's supposed to be.  If you go by the theory that the Akira is supposed to be a through-deck carrier, that pretty much rules out putting the warp core horizontally through the saucer...

As for the question of where Federation starship design is going...  certainly the trend immediately post-TNG seems to be long and thin, as evidenced by the Intrepid, Prometheus, and Sovereign.  Our next reference, the Enterprise-J, however, seems to have gone back to the wide style of the Galaxy--although if the Galaxy is a wide ship, the Ent-J is a double-wide.    After that, we've got nothing until the Relativity, and as a "timeship," I think that's a whole 'nother ball of wax design-wise.  I'd guess that the long and thin style would stay at the forefront of Starfleet design well into the 25th Century, and that maybe more toward the latter part of that or the early part of the 26th, reasons were found to go wide again...

[OlBuzzard]

As for the question of where Federation starship design is going...  certainly the trend immediately post-TNG seems to be long and thin, as evidenced by the Intrepid, Prometheus, and Sovereign.  Our next reference, the Enterprise-J, however, seems to have gone back to the wide style of the Galaxy--although if the Galaxy is a wide ship, the Ent-J is a double-wide.    After that, we've got nothing until the Relativity, and as a "timeship," I think that's a whole 'nother ball of wax design-wise.  I'd guess that the long and thin style would stay at the forefront of Starfleet design well into the 25th Century, and that maybe more toward the latter part of that or the early part of the 26th, reasons were found to go wide again...

IMHO ..  if any one is interested ..  it is more the tendency of designers to swing with the pendulum of differing techniques. 

ie:  original and Movie Enterprise vs TNG Enterprise "D"  : round primary hull and rounded nacelles (or long narrow ones in the Movie version) ..   Galaxy class is more oval shaped  ...   lines are more graceful and "rounding" ...  the nacelles are much shorter (proportionately speaking) and the ship is MUCH BIGGER than any of its predecessors (hmmm  kinda wonder about the Titan design) ...  Then we move to the Sovy ... It is the OPPOSITE in concept from the Galaxy.  Does any one see what I mean.

At any rate I'm thinking that a design that would incorporate a better boom/nacelle design with a sleeker primary hull would be good for late TNG...  But I would REALLY like to see a better AKIRA  ...  PERIOD !

Why on earth when the Akira was designed it look more like an after thougth I will never know.  IMHO it is one of the poorest Federation designs  (just plain butt ugly !).  The NX-1 demonstrates a better conceptual technique.

I think if there was better attention given to the way the nacelles were attached to the primary hull .. and perhaps couple with a roll bar ...  maybe it would look better.  I saw a design by Azel that utilized some of the same techniques form a P-38 Lightening ...  that would be a step in the right direction.


Oh well..   enough said ...  I'm certain this will be ignored any ways !

[Adonis]

IMHO ..  if any one is interested ..  it is more the tendency of designers to swing with the pendulum of differing techniques. 

ie:  original and Movie Enterprise vs TNG Enterprise "D"  : round primary hull and rounded nacelles (or long narrow ones in the Movie version) ..   Galaxy class is more oval shaped  ...   lines are more graceful and "rounding" ...  the nacelles are much shorter (proportionately speaking) and the ship is MUCH BIGGER than any of its predecessors (hmmm  kinda wonder about the Titan design) ...  Then we move to the Sovy ... It is the OPPOSITE in concept from the Galaxy.  Does any one see what I mean.

At any rate I'm thinking that a design that would incorporate a better boom/nacelle design with a sleeker primary hull would be good for late TNG...  But I would REALLY like to see a better AKIRA  ...  PERIOD !

Why on earth when the Akira was designed it look more like an after thougth I will never know.  IMHO it is one of the poorest Federation designs  (just plain butt ugly !).  The NX-1 demonstrates a better conceptual technique.

I think if there was better attention given to the way the nacelles were attached to the primary hull .. and perhaps couple with a roll bar ...  maybe it would look better.  I saw a design by Azel that utilized some of the same techniques form a P-38 Lightening ...  that would be a step in the right direction.


Oh well..   enough said ...  I'm certain this will be ignored any ways !

Excuse me?????

The Akira represents one of the few really original designs in Trek, and you say that she's crap????? ???
No the Ambassador for instance is crap, blocky'n'stuff...not the Akira!!!!
If y want in a few weeks I can build a model of the 30 year refit of the Akira that will blow all of the one's shown so far out the window...

And for crying outloud, don't make the "New Akira" a crappy kitbash!

[OlBuzzard]

IMHO ..  if any one is interested ..  it is more the tendency of designers to swing with the pendulum of differing techniques. 

ie:  original and Movie Enterprise vs TNG Enterprise "D"  : round primary hull and rounded nacelles (or long narrow ones in the Movie version) ..   Galaxy class is more oval shaped  ...   lines are more graceful and "rounding" ...  the nacelles are much shorter (proportionately speaking) and the ship is MUCH BIGGER than any of its predecessors (hmmm  kinda wonder about the Titan design) ...  Then we move to the Sovy ... It is the OPPOSITE in concept from the Galaxy.  Does any one see what I mean.

At any rate I'm thinking that a design that would incorporate a better boom/nacelle design with a sleeker primary hull would be good for late TNG...  But I would REALLY like to see a better AKIRA  ...  PERIOD !

Why on earth when the Akira was designed it look more like an after thougth I will never know.  IMHO it is one of the poorest Federation designs  (just plain butt ugly !).  The NX-1 demonstrates a better conceptual technique.

I think if there was better attention given to the way the nacelles were attached to the primary hull .. and perhaps couple with a roll bar ...  maybe it would look better.  I saw a design by Azel that utilized some of the same techniques form a P-38 Lightening ...  that would be a step in the right direction.


Oh well..   enough said ...  I'm certain this will be ignored any ways !

Excuse me?????

The Akira represents one of the few really original designs in Trek, and you say that she's crap????? ???
No the Ambassador for instance is crap, blocky'n'stuff...not the Akira!!!!
If y want in a few weeks I can build a model of the 30 year refit of the Akira that will blow all of the one's shown so far out the window...

And for crying outloud, don't make the "New Akira" a crappy kitbash!

1.  Yes it is a "crap" design...  just my opinion that almost will certainly draw a lot of fire....  If I have the time today I'll do some picts to show ya what I'm talking about.  Frankly it LOOKS like a kit bash that I would do as a "baby's first attempt" ...  if ya catch my drift.  There was just simply not that much thought put into the design.  The awkward manner in which the nacelles are mounted is proof.

2.  BTW....  this is not reflection on you as a person or your point of view.  Heck a lot of folk like the ship ...  if for no other reason than the fact it appeared on ST.


I WOULD be curious to see your new "refit" ideas !!


thanks ... 

and please don't take this as a flame throwing match ....  It's not intended that way.

[Adonis]

1.  Yes it is a "crap" design...  just my opinion that almost will certainly draw a lot of fire....  If I have the time today I'll do some picts to show ya what I'm talking about.  Frankly it LOOKS like a kit bash that I would do as a "baby's first attempt" ...  if ya catch my drift.  There was just simply not that much thought put into the design.  The awkward manner in which the nacelles are mounted is proof.

2.  BTW....  this is not reflection on you as a person or your point of view.  Heck a lot of folk like the ship ...  if for no other reason than the fact it appeared on ST.


I WOULD be curious to see your new "refit" ideas !!


thanks ... 

and please don't take this as a flame throwing match ....  It's not intended that way.

I'm pissed only becuz everyone have (or had in the beggining) bad words for the original ST designs, and blindly follow the usual, boring design line (saucer-neck-sec. hull)...There are ton of that crap both on BCFiles, and SFCFiles...

They flamed the Defiant when she first appeared on screen, and fell in love with her afterwards for instance.

The Akira's inverted "V" nacelle struts aren't bad at all, that's a smart design solution, becuz it's a good way to keep her low profile on the side, make her a smallest possible target.

As I said, gimme a few weeks and I'll make a refit Akira...

[OlBuzzard]

I'm pissed only becuz everyone have (or had in the beggining) bad words for the original ST designs, and blindly follow the usual, boring design line (saucer-neck-sec. hull)...There are ton of that crap both on BCFiles, and SFCFiles...

They flamed the Defiant when she first appeared on screen, and fell in love with her afterwards for instance.

The Akira's inverted "V" nacelle struts aren't bad at all, that's a smart design solution, becuz it's a good way to keep her low profile on the side, make her a smallest possible target.

As I said, gimme a few weeks and I'll make a refit Akira...

1.  I think we can both agree that there was a LOT of totally unnecessary fire thrown at the Defiant ..  mostly form a particular group of fanatics (who will remain nameless) ... Personally I love the Defiant and did a refit for it ...

I think the same thing could be said about the NX-1 ...  A LOT OF flaming that was totally out of line for that ship.  Again the NX-1 (in my opinion) is a VERY good design.  It is simply cleaner ... and flows VERY well.

2.  My wife is recovering from surgery  ( doing VERY well  I might add ) .. but I'm needed to help take care of a lot of things around the house in order to make her recovery successful.  If ya can give me a while I will post some picts as we pointed out earlier.   I wish I had the model ..  or at least some picts of the model Azel did that in my opinion would assist in the reconstruction of the Akira.

BTW...  it should also be noted that as far as the weapons, arcs and other amenities on the Akira ... that aspect of the design is fine.  There should have been more attention given to the rest of the development of the design.

lastly ..  as stated before ... I would be VERY interested in seeing your model.


thanks again for your patience.  It is noted that you are at least attempting dialogue while showing obvious disagreement ..  please also note +1 Karma as a result .

[Age]

   I happen to like the Akira not to small and not to big  and can carry a good amount of firepower.It showed itself really well in First Contact and DS9

[Captain Pierce]

Well, of course the NX-01 is cleaner...  it's a refinement of the design...    And I say that NOT to bring the old flame war to this discussion, but rather to ask this: Has anyone, in planning an Akira "refit" or design evolution, considered taken the refinements of the NX-01 and applying them to the TNG Akira?  IMO, it'd work best if the Akira's "secondary hull" bulge was kept under the saucer, with the deflector, leaving the "cutout" at the front of the saucer for the photons, but there's all sorts of other things that could be done, too.    A justification could be something like this: if the Akira is either a through-deck carrier, a fire-support cruiser with 15 photon tubes, or (God forbid) both, that thing's got to be expensive and time-consuming to build--perhaps a bit of simplification and refinement could make a ship that was equally effective but easier to build.  As Age pointed out, the Akiras did seem to hold their own in the midst of pretty tough battles... 

You know, the problem with these sorts of discussions is that some of the stuff we have to take into consideration, the look of "canon" starships, isn't always determined by what's best, but by what looks "best."  This started, as near as I can figure, right about the start of DS9's third season.  The Defiant, like it or not (and I don't want to start up that flame war again either), has basically nothing to do with the Starfleet design style at all.  This, of course, is because it wasn't originally a Starfleet ship at all, it was an early concept for a Bajoran impulse fighter for the second season opening arc.  The original mandate from Piller and/or Berman was for a beefed-up runabout, but that wasn't cool enough, so the impulse ship got the nod.  Then we had the Voyager screwup, where some IMO much superior early work by Rick Sternbach was producer-commented into the model we wound up with.  (I don't actually mind the Voyager we wound up with, BTW, it's actually not too bad, but there are at least two of his earlier versions that I prefer.)  And of course even people who like the NX-01 mostly don't bother to argue with the fact that it was designed that way because it looked cool.  This makes any discussion of "the Starfleet design style" somewhat more difficult...

[Adonis]

Well, of course the NX-01 is cleaner...  it's a refinement of the design...    And I say that NOT to bring the old flame war to this discussion, but rather to ask this: Has anyone, in planning an Akira "refit" or design evolution, considered taken the refinements of the NX-01 and applying them to the TNG Akira?  IMO, it'd work best if the Akira's "secondary hull" bulge was kept under the saucer, with the deflector, leaving the "cutout" at the front of the saucer for the photons, but there's all sorts of other things that could be done, too.    A justification could be something like this: if the Akira is either a through-deck carrier, a fire-support cruiser with 15 photon tubes, or (God forbid) both, that thing's got to be expensive and time-consuming to build--perhaps a bit of simplification and refinement could make a ship that was equally effective but easier to build.  As Age pointed out, the Akiras did seem to hold their own in the midst of pretty tough battles... 

You know, the problem with these sorts of discussions is that some of the stuff we have to take into consideration, the look of "canon" starships, isn't always determined by what's best, but by what looks "best."  This started, as near as I can figure, right about the start of DS9's third season.  The Defiant, like it or not (and I don't want to start up that flame war again either), has basically nothing to do with the Starfleet design style at all.  This, of course, is because it wasn't originally a Starfleet ship at all, it was an early concept for a Bajoran impulse fighter for the second season opening arc.  The original mandate from Piller and/or Berman was for a beefed-up runabout, but that wasn't cool enough, so the impulse ship got the nod.  Then we had the Voyager screwup, where some IMO much superior early work by Rick Sternbach was producer-commented into the model we wound up with.  (I don't actually mind the Voyager we wound up with, BTW, it's actually not too bad, but there are at least two of his earlier versions that I prefer.)  And of course even people who like the NX-01 mostly don't bother to argue with the fact that it was designed that way because it looked cool.  This makes any discussion of "the Starfleet design style" somewhat more difficult...

Ok, I'll put my reply up this way :

Which is easier to rip apart?
A) A Defiantish ship
B)A ship of the usual Starfleet design

Correct answer: B
Reason: A starship of the usual Starfleet design line is a saucer-neck-sec.hull design, with two struts attached to the sec.hull which hold the nacelles. Now, incase of a photon torp hit to those weak parts (being the neck and the struts), there is a good chance to blow them off the ship, what in the case of the neck means the destruction of the ship (on TMP designs). In a case of a  ship which is compactly packed up like the Defiant that strategy is useles, and the ship automatically becomes a smaller target, harder to hit.

I found Andrew Probert's Ambassador study design, which looks 10 times better than the cannon crappy one. She has a better flow, isn't blocky at all, and is a streamlined elegant ship. I have contacted him in order to get as much data as possible on her, so I could make her model. I'm waiting for him to give me something concrete to start from.

Third: After the Dominion war, and the Borg I think that no one sane would like to see a luxury liner as a first line battleship, but a pure hearted battleship made for combat, not blue-milk runs to neighbouring systems, which is of an integrated design type, with no struts, necks and stuff like that, impossible to turn into chunks with a short torpedo run.

[manitoba1073]

if anyone wants to know what an akira can do is just look up the ship USS Thunderchild. anyways ill have an update soon of where i think the Akira should be like. i just hope everyone else agrees. lol

[manitoba1073]

heres a general idea, just dont worry to much on the saucer yet, lol , its a wip

[Adonis]

...and I already don't like it