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Offline Sochin

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Late Era TNG discusion thread
« on: December 22, 2004, 06:57:06 am »
OK I was reading the thread on the intrepid sub category in this forum and it got me kind of interested in the brainstorming of new developments with established designs, namely the Intrepid and the Akira. I think the intrepid has been and will be delt with but what about the Akira and for that matter what  about the rest of the races on top of that. How do we see ship development advancing in the late TNG era?

OK shall we start with the Akira, what makes the Akira a good and bad design.

Good,
Shes is compact - Shes bread for combat and combat alone there appears to be no left over space for frills.
Shes heavily armed - She has the weapons to stand and fight (at least in the films and TV)
She looks the part - Well she does, she looks like a warship, gracefull yet mean.

Bad,
Nacelles - They suck they really do.
Venerability - With the extension of the booms to the weapons pod would a couple of well aimed weapons strikes cripple her?
Power - In game power to weapons ratio leaves a bit more to be desired, she has no teeth, shes a warship give her some.


Has anyone any ideas? Where do you see federation design going, whats its aims and motivations where do you see federations design nemesis +5 or 10 years?
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2004, 08:08:59 am »

 ;D

« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 10:46:18 pm by F9thOlbuzzard »
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2004, 09:02:39 am »
If ya ask me the redesigning of the Akira isn't good, if ya gonna do that make her early 25th century, Redesigning her becuz ya just don't like some estetical parts of her is bad by me, she's one of the few really original Federation designs in ST.
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2004, 09:51:51 am »
Be a lil' patient I intend to address this and more in the OutaLance upcoming MOD. Then if ya don't like what I've done we can brainstorm.
-MP
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2004, 10:05:42 am »
!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 10:46:56 pm by F9thOlbuzzard »
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2004, 10:51:41 am »
Quote from: ModelsPlease on December 22, 2004, 09:51:51 am
Be a lil' patient I intend to address this and more in the OutaLance upcoming MOD. Then if ya don't like what I've done we can brainstorm.
-MP

OK, But it has to be a 30 year overhaul minimum, a refit...
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2004, 09:09:17 pm »
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Offline Sandman3D

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2004, 09:51:49 pm »
Well, I like the looks of some of those, but, from the point of view of this thread (Ithink), those are [utting a new saucer on the Akira frame. I like 'em as pirate bashes...take what ya can from a battlefield and use whats available. :P

Personally, I like the Akira, just don't see it as a Battleship. Warship yes. ;D Battleships are big, beefy and mean looking...the Akira looks too much like a light cruiser to me. :P
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2004, 10:22:42 pm »
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Offline FoaS_XC

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2004, 11:06:10 pm »
personally, there are a few i like
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2004, 03:02:29 am »
LOL I just find 'em but.......here's 2 I wipped up. What do ya think?



And



Amazing what ya can do with STARSHIP CREATOR
 ;D :thumbsup:
-MP
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Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2004, 03:16:56 am »
u and ur crayons   :rofl:  dont worry about the akira its my baby.  since im the real akira nut anyways.  ;D ;D ;D    the refit or upgrade is the design basis of the Dark Angels. im sure someones going to say Dark Angels? hehe u'll be seeing v3 soon. im on my labtop at the moment so i dont have pixs of v1 or v2 on it. but they will be . up soon.  oh MP that starship creator which one is that and does it save to a 3d format of some kind?
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2004, 03:37:34 am »
Ok one more ..............

USS HAMMERHEAD



lol Mani I know the Akira is in good hands.
 ;D :thumbsup:
-MP
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Offline markyd

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2004, 04:06:16 am »
Starship creator rocks, I used to love playing with that little piece of kit  ;D

As for the ships, some of them look good, its quite hard to find a match for the akira hull structure though, i.e the sovvy / akira combination doesnt work  :D
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Offline Sochin

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2004, 04:09:38 am »
What about,
Saucer remains the same, beef up the conecting booms change the nacelles to either the Dawnstar or titan?
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2004, 04:10:25 am »
I dunno, I've always liked Mackie's WRAITH CLASS

http://www.the-tcs.net/ships/images/wraith.jpg

-MP
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Offline Sochin

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2004, 04:13:35 am »
Looks OK but I dont think the sov nacelles look good off angle, even the titan or dawnstar nacelles would look better flat.
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Offline markyd

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #17 on: December 23, 2004, 04:18:22 am »
Thats not too bad.... still not exactly right though  :(
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Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #18 on: December 23, 2004, 05:31:54 am »
heres a pix of v2 granted its not the best pix
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Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2004, 05:34:01 am »
LOL I just find 'em but.......here's 2 I wipped up. What do ya think?


i sure do like the nacelles on first one
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2004, 07:57:12 am »
Any chance you can tell me where to get Starship Creator ? ...  I would like to look at it please.

thanks
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Offline markyd

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2004, 08:00:28 am »
Its quite old... It came out the same time as klingon academy :(
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2004, 08:54:06 am »
Yup it's real old.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2004, 09:08:36 am »
No bother.
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2004, 09:44:56 am »
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Offline Age

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2004, 12:00:34 pm »
Quote from: ModelsPlease on December 23, 2004, 03:02:29 am
LOL I just find 'em but.......here's 2 I wipped up. What do ya think?



And



Amazing what ya can do with STARSHIP CREATOR
 ;D :thumbsup:
-MP
What are these Federation BBs? ModelsPlease I was wondering can you make a I Fed. BB based on the lines of the current designs and a Klingon BB with same as the Fed.Thanks. btw What a fine couple of models 8)
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Offline markyd

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2004, 12:05:46 pm »
ROFL.....

Age..... Starship creator was a game made for you to build you own starships, then send them into missions and test them out... it was like fitting together a jigsaw, they would provide loads of different parts and you stuck them together  :)

I think their was the option in starship creator to import your ships into klingon acadamy, in which case they would be in LWO format and could probably be converted to .mod with relative ease  ;D

What say you MP.. up for the challenge ;)
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2004, 05:51:29 pm »
Heck yeah I will give it a shot when I get back from vacation. I will check in now and again for the next 2 weeks. Merry Christmas everyone and God bless each of you and your loved ones during this season and for ever there after

MP
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Offline Captain Pierce

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2004, 08:16:48 pm »
Quote from: S31-MarkyD on December 23, 2004, 12:05:46 pm
I think their was the option in starship creator to import your ships into klingon acadamy

IIRC, it was Dominion Wars. 

OK, I can understand the urge to kitbash, but what's the deal with the Excelsior/Intrepid Akiras?  :o 

There are two problems I've always seen with the Akira.  First, as mentioned in the original post, those booms going back to the weapon pod just make the whole thing look a little flimsy.  They're actually more substantial than most nacelle struts on Federation ships, though...  ;)  Secondly, I've never been able to figure out where the warp core's supposed to be.  If you go by the theory that the Akira is supposed to be a through-deck carrier, that pretty much rules out putting the warp core horizontally through the saucer...

As for the question of where Federation starship design is going...  certainly the trend immediately post-TNG seems to be long and thin, as evidenced by the Intrepid, Prometheus, and Sovereign.  Our next reference, the Enterprise-J, however, seems to have gone back to the wide style of the Galaxy--although if the Galaxy is a wide ship, the Ent-J is a double-wide.  :D  After that, we've got nothing until the Relativity, and as a "timeship," I think that's a whole 'nother ball of wax design-wise.  I'd guess that the long and thin style would stay at the forefront of Starfleet design well into the 25th Century, and that maybe more toward the latter part of that or the early part of the 26th, reasons were found to go wide again...
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2004, 11:56:41 pm »
Quote from: Captain Pierce on December 23, 2004, 08:16:48 pm



As for the question of where Federation starship design is going...  certainly the trend immediately post-TNG seems to be long and thin, as evidenced by the Intrepid, Prometheus, and Sovereign.  Our next reference, the Enterprise-J, however, seems to have gone back to the wide style of the Galaxy--although if the Galaxy is a wide ship, the Ent-J is a double-wide.  :D  After that, we've got nothing until the Relativity, and as a "timeship," I think that's a whole 'nother ball of wax design-wise.  I'd guess that the long and thin style would stay at the forefront of Starfleet design well into the 25th Century, and that maybe more toward the latter part of that or the early part of the 26th, reasons were found to go wide again...


IMHO ..  if any one is interested ..  it is more the tendency of designers to swing with the pendulum of differing techniques. 

ie:  original and Movie Enterprise vs TNG Enterprise "D"  : round primary hull and rounded nacelles (or long narrow ones in the Movie version) ..   Galaxy class is more oval shaped  ...   lines are more graceful and "rounding" ...  the nacelles are much shorter (proportionately speaking) and the ship is MUCH BIGGER than any of its predecessors (hmmm  kinda wonder about the Titan design) ...  Then we move to the Sovy ... It is the OPPOSITE in concept from the Galaxy.  Does any one see what I mean.

At any rate I'm thinking that a design that would incorporate a better boom/nacelle design with a sleeker primary hull would be good for late TNG...  But I would REALLY like to see a better AKIRA  ...  PERIOD !

Why on earth when the Akira was designed it look more like an after thougth I will never know.  IMHO it is one of the poorest Federation designs  (just plain butt ugly !).  The NX-1 demonstrates a better conceptual technique.

I think if there was better attention given to the way the nacelles were attached to the primary hull .. and perhaps couple with a roll bar ...  maybe it would look better.  I saw a design by Azel that utilized some of the same techniques form a P-38 Lightening ...  that would be a step in the right direction.


Oh well..   enough said ...  I'm certain this will be ignored any ways !
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2004, 07:45:18 am »
Quote from: F9thOlbuzzard on December 23, 2004, 11:56:41 pm

IMHO ..  if any one is interested ..  it is more the tendency of designers to swing with the pendulum of differing techniques. 

ie:  original and Movie Enterprise vs TNG Enterprise "D"  : round primary hull and rounded nacelles (or long narrow ones in the Movie version) ..   Galaxy class is more oval shaped  ...   lines are more graceful and "rounding" ...  the nacelles are much shorter (proportionately speaking) and the ship is MUCH BIGGER than any of its predecessors (hmmm  kinda wonder about the Titan design) ...  Then we move to the Sovy ... It is the OPPOSITE in concept from the Galaxy.  Does any one see what I mean.

At any rate I'm thinking that a design that would incorporate a better boom/nacelle design with a sleeker primary hull would be good for late TNG...  But I would REALLY like to see a better AKIRA  ...  PERIOD !

Why on earth when the Akira was designed it look more like an after thougth I will never know.  IMHO it is one of the poorest Federation designs  (just plain butt ugly !).  The NX-1 demonstrates a better conceptual technique.

I think if there was better attention given to the way the nacelles were attached to the primary hull .. and perhaps couple with a roll bar ...  maybe it would look better.  I saw a design by Azel that utilized some of the same techniques form a P-38 Lightening ...  that would be a step in the right direction.


Oh well..   enough said ...  I'm certain this will be ignored any ways !

Excuse me????? :o

The Akira represents one of the few really original designs in Trek, and you say that she's crap????? ???
No the Ambassador for instance is crap, blocky'n'stuff...not the Akira!!!!
If y want in a few weeks I can build a model of the 30 year refit of the Akira that will blow all of the one's shown so far out the window...

And for crying outloud, don't make the "New Akira" a crappy kitbash!
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2004, 09:41:24 am »
Quote from: Adonis on December 24, 2004, 07:45:18 am
Quote from: F9thOlbuzzard on December 23, 2004, 11:56:41 pm

IMHO ..  if any one is interested ..  it is more the tendency of designers to swing with the pendulum of differing techniques. 

ie:  original and Movie Enterprise vs TNG Enterprise "D"  : round primary hull and rounded nacelles (or long narrow ones in the Movie version) ..   Galaxy class is more oval shaped  ...   lines are more graceful and "rounding" ...  the nacelles are much shorter (proportionately speaking) and the ship is MUCH BIGGER than any of its predecessors (hmmm  kinda wonder about the Titan design) ...  Then we move to the Sovy ... It is the OPPOSITE in concept from the Galaxy.  Does any one see what I mean.

At any rate I'm thinking that a design that would incorporate a better boom/nacelle design with a sleeker primary hull would be good for late TNG...  But I would REALLY like to see a better AKIRA  ...  PERIOD !

Why on earth when the Akira was designed it look more like an after thougth I will never know.  IMHO it is one of the poorest Federation designs  (just plain butt ugly !).  The NX-1 demonstrates a better conceptual technique.

I think if there was better attention given to the way the nacelles were attached to the primary hull .. and perhaps couple with a roll bar ...  maybe it would look better.  I saw a design by Azel that utilized some of the same techniques form a P-38 Lightening ...  that would be a step in the right direction.


Oh well..   enough said ...  I'm certain this will be ignored any ways !

Excuse me????? :o

The Akira represents one of the few really original designs in Trek, and you say that she's crap????? ???
No the Ambassador for instance is crap, blocky'n'stuff...not the Akira!!!!
If y want in a few weeks I can build a model of the 30 year refit of the Akira that will blow all of the one's shown so far out the window...

And for crying outloud, don't make the "New Akira" a crappy kitbash!


1.  Yes it is a "crap" design...  just my opinion that almost will certainly draw a lot of fire....  If I have the time today I'll do some picts to show ya what I'm talking about.  Frankly it LOOKS like a kit bash that I would do as a "baby's first attempt" ...  if ya catch my drift.  There was just simply not that much thought put into the design.  The awkward manner in which the nacelles are mounted is proof.

2.  BTW....  this is not reflection on you as a person or your point of view.  Heck a lot of folk like the ship ...  if for no other reason than the fact it appeared on ST.


I WOULD be curious to see your new "refit" ideas !!


thanks ... 

and please don't take this as a flame throwing match ....  It's not intended that way.


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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2004, 11:09:51 am »
Quote from: F9thOlbuzzard on December 24, 2004, 09:41:24 am

1.  Yes it is a "crap" design...  just my opinion that almost will certainly draw a lot of fire....  If I have the time today I'll do some picts to show ya what I'm talking about.  Frankly it LOOKS like a kit bash that I would do as a "baby's first attempt" ...  if ya catch my drift.  There was just simply not that much thought put into the design.  The awkward manner in which the nacelles are mounted is proof.

2.  BTW....  this is not reflection on you as a person or your point of view.  Heck a lot of folk like the ship ...  if for no other reason than the fact it appeared on ST.


I WOULD be curious to see your new "refit" ideas !!


thanks ... 

and please don't take this as a flame throwing match ....  It's not intended that way.




I'm pissed only becuz everyone have (or had in the beggining) bad words for the original ST designs, and blindly follow the usual, boring design line (saucer-neck-sec. hull)...There are ton of that crap both on BCFiles, and SFCFiles...

They flamed the Defiant when she first appeared on screen, and fell in love with her afterwards for instance.

The Akira's inverted "V" nacelle struts aren't bad at all, that's a smart design solution, becuz it's a good way to keep her low profile on the side, make her a smallest possible target.

As I said, gimme a few weeks and I'll make a refit Akira...
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2004, 12:05:31 pm »
Quote from: Adonis on December 24, 2004, 11:09:51 am

I'm pissed only becuz everyone have (or had in the beggining) bad words for the original ST designs, and blindly follow the usual, boring design line (saucer-neck-sec. hull)...There are ton of that crap both on BCFiles, and SFCFiles...

They flamed the Defiant when she first appeared on screen, and fell in love with her afterwards for instance.

The Akira's inverted "V" nacelle struts aren't bad at all, that's a smart design solution, becuz it's a good way to keep her low profile on the side, make her a smallest possible target.

As I said, gimme a few weeks and I'll make a refit Akira...


1.  I think we can both agree that there was a LOT of totally unnecessary fire thrown at the Defiant ..  mostly form a particular group of fanatics (who will remain nameless) ... Personally I love the Defiant and did a refit for it ...

I think the same thing could be said about the NX-1 ...  A LOT OF flaming that was totally out of line for that ship.  Again the NX-1 (in my opinion) is a VERY good design.  It is simply cleaner ... and flows VERY well.

2.  My wife is recovering from surgery  ( doing VERY well  I might add ) .. but I'm needed to help take care of a lot of things around the house in order to make her recovery successful.  If ya can give me a while I will post some picts as we pointed out earlier.   I wish I had the model ..  or at least some picts of the model Azel did that in my opinion would assist in the reconstruction of the Akira.

BTW...  it should also be noted that as far as the weapons, arcs and other amenities on the Akira ... that aspect of the design is fine.  There should have been more attention given to the rest of the development of the design.

lastly ..  as stated before ... I would be VERY interested in seeing your model.


thanks again for your patience.  It is noted that you are at least attempting dialogue while showing obvious disagreement ..  please also note +1 Karma as a result .


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Offline Age

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2004, 04:00:41 pm »
   I happen to like the Akira not to small and not to big  and can carry a good amount of firepower.It showed itself really well in First Contact and DS9
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Offline Captain Pierce

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #35 on: December 26, 2004, 04:05:14 pm »
Well, of course the NX-01 is cleaner...  it's a refinement of the design...  ;)  And I say that NOT to bring the old flame war to this discussion, but rather to ask this: Has anyone, in planning an Akira "refit" or design evolution, considered taken the refinements of the NX-01 and applying them to the TNG Akira?  IMO, it'd work best if the Akira's "secondary hull" bulge was kept under the saucer, with the deflector, leaving the "cutout" at the front of the saucer for the photons, but there's all sorts of other things that could be done, too.  :)  A justification could be something like this: if the Akira is either a through-deck carrier, a fire-support cruiser with 15 photon tubes, or (God forbid) both, that thing's got to be expensive and time-consuming to build--perhaps a bit of simplification and refinement could make a ship that was equally effective but easier to build.  As Age pointed out, the Akiras did seem to hold their own in the midst of pretty tough battles...  :)

You know, the problem with these sorts of discussions is that some of the stuff we have to take into consideration, the look of "canon" starships, isn't always determined by what's best, but by what looks "best."  This started, as near as I can figure, right about the start of DS9's third season.  The Defiant, like it or not (and I don't want to start up that flame war again either), has basically nothing to do with the Starfleet design style at all.  This, of course, is because it wasn't originally a Starfleet ship at all, it was an early concept for a Bajoran impulse fighter for the second season opening arc.  The original mandate from Piller and/or Berman was for a beefed-up runabout, but that wasn't cool enough, so the impulse ship got the nod.  Then we had the Voyager screwup, where some IMO much superior early work by Rick Sternbach was producer-commented into the model we wound up with.  (I don't actually mind the Voyager we wound up with, BTW, it's actually not too bad, but there are at least two of his earlier versions that I prefer.)  And of course even people who like the NX-01 mostly don't bother to argue with the fact that it was designed that way because it looked cool.  This makes any discussion of "the Starfleet design style" somewhat more difficult...
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #36 on: December 26, 2004, 05:26:24 pm »
Quote from: Captain Pierce on December 26, 2004, 04:05:14 pm
Well, of course the NX-01 is cleaner...  it's a refinement of the design...  ;)  And I say that NOT to bring the old flame war to this discussion, but rather to ask this: Has anyone, in planning an Akira "refit" or design evolution, considered taken the refinements of the NX-01 and applying them to the TNG Akira?  IMO, it'd work best if the Akira's "secondary hull" bulge was kept under the saucer, with the deflector, leaving the "cutout" at the front of the saucer for the photons, but there's all sorts of other things that could be done, too.  :)  A justification could be something like this: if the Akira is either a through-deck carrier, a fire-support cruiser with 15 photon tubes, or (God forbid) both, that thing's got to be expensive and time-consuming to build--perhaps a bit of simplification and refinement could make a ship that was equally effective but easier to build.  As Age pointed out, the Akiras did seem to hold their own in the midst of pretty tough battles...  :)

You know, the problem with these sorts of discussions is that some of the stuff we have to take into consideration, the look of "canon" starships, isn't always determined by what's best, but by what looks "best."  This started, as near as I can figure, right about the start of DS9's third season.  The Defiant, like it or not (and I don't want to start up that flame war again either), has basically nothing to do with the Starfleet design style at all.  This, of course, is because it wasn't originally a Starfleet ship at all, it was an early concept for a Bajoran impulse fighter for the second season opening arc.  The original mandate from Piller and/or Berman was for a beefed-up runabout, but that wasn't cool enough, so the impulse ship got the nod.  Then we had the Voyager screwup, where some IMO much superior early work by Rick Sternbach was producer-commented into the model we wound up with.  (I don't actually mind the Voyager we wound up with, BTW, it's actually not too bad, but there are at least two of his earlier versions that I prefer.)  And of course even people who like the NX-01 mostly don't bother to argue with the fact that it was designed that way because it looked cool.  This makes any discussion of "the Starfleet design style" somewhat more difficult...

Ok, I'll put my reply up this way ::) :

Which is easier to rip apart?
A) A Defiantish ship
B)A ship of the usual Starfleet design

Correct answer: B
Reason: A starship of the usual Starfleet design line is a saucer-neck-sec.hull design, with two struts attached to the sec.hull which hold the nacelles. Now, incase of a photon torp hit to those weak parts (being the neck and the struts), there is a good chance to blow them off the ship, what in the case of the neck means the destruction of the ship (on TMP designs). In a case of a  ship which is compactly packed up like the Defiant that strategy is useles, and the ship automatically becomes a smaller target, harder to hit.

I found Andrew Probert's Ambassador study design, which looks 10 times better than the cannon crappy one. She has a better flow, isn't blocky at all, and is a streamlined elegant ship. I have contacted him in order to get as much data as possible on her, so I could make her model. I'm waiting for him to give me something concrete to start from.

Third: After the Dominion war, and the Borg I think that no one sane would like to see a luxury liner as a first line battleship, but a pure hearted battleship made for combat, not blue-milk runs to neighbouring systems, which is of an integrated design type, with no struts, necks and stuff like that, impossible to turn into chunks with a short torpedo run.
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Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #37 on: December 26, 2004, 05:31:33 pm »
if anyone wants to know what an akira can do is just look up the ship USS Thunderchild. anyways ill have an update soon of where i think the Akira should be like. i just hope everyone else agrees. lol
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Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2004, 06:01:20 pm »
heres a general idea, just dont worry to much on the saucer yet, lol , its a wip
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2004, 06:18:00 pm »
...and I already don't like it ::)
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Offline Captain Pierce

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #40 on: December 26, 2004, 07:01:55 pm »
Adonis, what part of

Quote from: Captain Pierce on December 26, 2004, 04:05:14 pm
(and I don't want to start up that flame war again either)

did you not understand?  Jesus, I don't even dislike the Defiant, I think that--for the mission the Defiant was designed for--the model we got is probably better than the more "traditional" designs that were kicked about (which I would give some sort of link to if I could get to the site that has them  :-\ ).  My point was, that model wasn't picked because it was better for the mission, it was picked because it looked cooler, and that was the beginning of the problem...
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Offline Adonis

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #41 on: December 26, 2004, 08:48:33 pm »
Quote from: Captain Pierce on December 26, 2004, 07:01:55 pm
Adonis, what part of

Quote from: Captain Pierce on December 26, 2004, 04:05:14 pm
(and I don't want to start up that flame war again either)

did you not understand?  Jesus, I don't even dislike the Defiant, I think that--for the mission the Defiant was designed for--the model we got is probably better than the more "traditional" designs that were kicked about (which I would give some sort of link to if I could get to the site that has them  :-\ ).  My point was, that model wasn't picked because it was better for the mission, it was picked because it looked cooler, and that was the beginning of the problem...

There is a big difference between a flamewar and facts ya know.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2004, 11:28:26 pm »
IMHO ..   you are all missing the point (s) ..

and I think it's safe to say that this entire converstaion has now eroded away to the point that I feel as thought the work I have already started will be pointless to post here ...  at least for now.

(BTW...  there are quite a number of us who are not the least bit impressed with anyone refering to the NX-1 as a refinement of the Akira...  sorry ...  it's just not so.)

I think I will just leave the rest of this alone for now...

thanks

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Offline manitoba1073

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2004, 03:58:09 am »
a little better than the last one  lol
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Offline Captain Pierce

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2004, 11:21:50 am »
Quote from: F9thOlbuzzard on December 26, 2004, 11:28:26 pm
(BTW...  there are quite a number of us who are not the least bit impressed with anyone refering to the NX-1 as a refinement of the Akira...  sorry ...  it's just not so.)

And you certainly have a right to that opinion.  :)  I'm not trying to suggest otherwise, and I'm sorry if I've contributed to the erosion of the conversation that has made you feel posting your work would be pointless.  I, for one, would like to see it.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: Late Era TNG discusion thread
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2004, 11:35:25 am »
Captain Pierce ....

you are not the problem.  There is a difference between disagreement ..  and other wise ...  well...  let's just let it go before things get out of hand.

BTW...  I'm not up set.  I just think it would be best to handle this from another approach !  There's no point in futher review when key elements of our discussion has been ignored or pushed aside in order to hold on to a philosophy that only generates futher argumentation (as opposed to a resloution). 

thanks
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