Topic: Just curious, How many people like OOB?

[GDA-S'Cipio]

 Love ideas like Secret VCs that encourage strategy beyond trench warfare, a more interesting map that opens up stategic options you dont see with straight and uniform borders, etc.

I too miss the secret VCs given to each side.  I also like the old racial VC's, which gave each race something to fight for on their own.

I dislike, would perfer something in the map setup with trade routes of open hexes with high econs to determine production via shipyards rather than the holding of planets being the sole determinant of what is able to be built.

That I've already done with DOE, and will likely do again.  With Squad Commander I went a step further and eliminated planets altogether (aside from capitals), instead using asteroid hexes as the hexes with highest econ.  They still represented populated systems, but didn't discriminate against those (like Lyran) who have a harder time assaulting fixed positions with phaser IV's.

 What would be cool is if there is a way to allow for certain missions to reduce econ value instead of DV, or perhaps have some missions do both.  Would open up the field for commerce raiding and "U-boat" warfare.  

In its simplest form this requirs SQL.  It can't be done with missions on the flatfile database.

However, I intend to try and do something similar on Econ War with a DB editor.  Missions won't change the econ of hexes, but achieving VC's will.

-S'Cipio

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

In its simplest form this requirs SQL.  It can't be done with missions on the flatfile database.

However, I intend to try and do something similar on Econ War with a DB editor.  Missions won't change the econ of hexes, but achieving VC's will.

-S'Cipio

Now if you matched a race up with its pirate counterpart and put the same shiplist in for both you might could have an aspect of economic warfare with addition of economic VCs, just a thought.

[FPF-DieHard]

They game is old, the player-base will delcine no matter what and even if we could get 100 people on a server with a cheesefest, i'd be bored of it and not likely play.

Exactly that's why those of us that are left need to try and work harder in order to at least try and maintain the player base that we DO still have.

Look at the polls, more people are into some form of OOB than none.   

[FPF-Bach]

Look at the polls, more people are into some form of OOB than none.   

You are correct, on this particular poll that is indiacted, however does that mean we shouldn't still try to keep the other 10 people that are not fully into some form of OOB?

You have 49 votes, 33 people are into some form of OOB 10 are not and 6 are indifferent.  While this is not a complete tell of our entire player base it give us a good baseline to go with.  My question to you is would you rather play on a server with 39 players or one with 49?

You don't have to cater to what everyone wants but, you shouldn't disregard other players and their opinions as if they are meaningless in the process.

On a side note Grim took a hiatus from this game back in July so he is one of the players who has left and is considering a return.  If you check the Hydran forum at SFC2.NET he lasted posted there on 7/16/04.  If a player returns then we should welcome them back.  This-

Wrong, I'll do whatever the heck I think is best, this is not a Democracy. I'm not looking for public input at this time nor do I think I'm ever going to be looking for it. "

is not the way to go about it.  Although you may feel that way you shouldn't go out of your way to rub peoples noses in it a bad taste will be left discouraging further participation.

[FPF-DieHard]

Wrong, I'll do whatever the heck I think is best, this is not a Democracy. I'm not looking for public input at this time nor do I think I'm ever going to be looking for it. "

is not the way to go about it.  Although you may feel that way you shouldn't go out of your way to rub peoples noses in it a bad taste will be left discouraging further participation.

Oh come on, you guys are worse than ex-girlfriends with bring up p00p that you said 20 years ago out of context 

[Commander Maxillius]

Wrong, I'll do whatever the heck I think is best, this is not a Democracy. I'm not looking for public input at this time nor do I think I'm ever going to be looking for it. "

is not the way to go about it.  Although you may feel that way you shouldn't go out of your way to rub peoples noses in it a bad taste will be left discouraging further participation.

Oh come on, you guys are worse than ex-girlfriends with bring up p00p that you said 20 years ago out of context 

Can you honestly say there's anything about that statement that could POSSIBLY be read as anything BUT hopelessly concieted???  While I agree with you that you have the right to set up your servers how you want, it's a bad idea to make a point to try to exclude people.

[FPF-DieHard]

. . . While I agree with you that you have the right to set up your servers how you want, it's a bad idea to make a point to try to exclude people.

Please, like I have to try to be a dick.  For some of us, it just comes naturally 

[Kroma BaSyl]

They game is old, the player-base will delcine no matter what and even if we could get 100 people on a server with a cheesefest, i'd be bored of it and not likely play.

Exactly that's why those of us that are left need to try and work harder in order to at least try and maintain the player base that we DO still have.

Look at the polls, more people are into some form of OOB than none.   

Forget the polls, my - karma is up. I must have been successful at getting under someones skin.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Wrong, I'll do whatever the heck I think is best, this is not a Democracy. I'm not looking for public input at this time nor do I think I'm ever going to be looking for it. "

is not the way to go about it.  Although you may feel that way you shouldn't go out of your way to rub peoples noses in it a bad taste will be left discouraging further participation.

Oh come on, you guys are worse than ex-girlfriends with bring up p00p that you said 20 years ago out of context 

Can you honestly say there's anything about that statement that could POSSIBLY be read as anything BUT hopelessly concieted???  While I agree with you that you have the right to set up your servers how you want, it's a bad idea to make a point to try to exclude people.

You too continue to miss the point. He isn't making the point that he is going to exclude people so much as pointing out that he will always do what he thinks is best for the servers he works on regardless of the result of polls or th vocal minority on the forums (which was the context from which that quote was taken out of). If you feel excluded it is of your own doing, as there is nothing stopping the lot of yo from trying out your own ideas.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Look at the polls, more people are into some form of OOB than none.   

You are correct, on this particular poll that is indiacted, however does that mean we shouldn't still try to keep the other 10 people that are not fully into some form of OOB?

You have 49 votes, 33 people are into some form of OOB 10 are not and 6 are indifferent.  While this is not a complete tell of our entire player base it give us a good baseline to go with.  My question to you is would you rather play on a server with 39 players or one with 49?

You don't have to cater to what everyone wants but, you shouldn't disregard other players and their opinions as if they are meaningless in the process.

On a side note Grim took a hiatus from this game back in July so he is one of the players who has left and is considering a return.  If you check the Hydran forum at SFC2.NET he lasted posted there on 7/16/04.  If a player returns then we should welcome them back.  This-

Wrong, I'll do whatever the heck I think is best, this is not a Democracy. I'm not looking for public input at this time nor do I think I'm ever going to be looking for it. "

is not the way to go about it.  Although you may feel that way you shouldn't go out of your way to rub peoples noses in it a bad taste will be left discouraging further participation.

Here is the point Bach. Why do DH and I have to agree to incoporate or pretent to like Grim or anyone elses ideas? We are just expressing our opinion of them as we have thought this stuff out and have come to different conclusions than you guys. We also have our own vision of the dynas we want to invest our time in. We use players ideas all the time, hell I doubt DH ever had an original thought in his life, he mostly just plagerizes anyway. We don't use every idea though as no one dyna can be everything to everyone. If you really care about keeping those 10 players around then I suggest you put up a dyna that meets their and hopefully a wider array of players needs in addition to those being run along the OOB scheme of play. We have the other 39 satisfied, and feel that to attempt to appease that 10 players would alienate 10 players from the other camp, which happens to be the camp that is most fun for us.

[Grim]

You dont have to agree with what i think about the OOB issue, you have your opinion and i have mine fair enough. I did state near the begining of the thread that i found OOB for BB/DN/BCH is i believe fair enough as that seems to be the general concensus by most players that that is enough.

I only voiced my oppostion to the idea of implementing more OOB in terms of starting to look at CA's, CL's etc. which i think is going to far. Perosnally I dont like OOB but with the DN/BCH thing i can live with it and fly a dyna that hs those rules but starting to implement more i would perosnally choose not to fly that server. I have flown dynas that have OOB on both DN's and BCH's and despite the fact at times i find it annoying that i cant fly the ship that i want i can deal with it. Sure i could ask the RM if i could fly a restricted ship but thats not the point.

DH may create threads at times to ask for opinions but from several comments he has stated recently he has showed his true nature that he doesnt give a toss what those people say. So dh why ask for opinions if you state they dont matter? You go on about cheese all the time, there is no universal agreed defintion on what is cheese and what isnt, either way your crusuade against so called cheese in order to acheive balance is going to have an impact either stopping indiviualds play or even helping to decline certain races playerbase. You are not going to be able to achieve full balance without some races feel that they are getting shafted someway.

The playerbase is declining, sure its because the game is ageing and becomming less popular, but you have to admit we had major drops in numbers from people who still regard OP as a good game to play but due to arguments over the past few dynas relating to shiplist and other issues such as race quarrels. So i dont think you can entirely blame new games such as EVE and the ageing of OP as the major factor why people recently have given up the game. I am full aware there were a large amount of players that left a long time ago as mentioned by Hexx, but we have also seen major declines recently say over the past few dynas.

Overall my posts were made in context to the frustration i had and my fears for the future, which of course i'm entitled to.

This will probably be my last post on the subject, i dont have the time or the effort to argue with you Kroma/DH, we have a difference of opinion i guess we leave it at that.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Here is a idea I got last night after thinking about Chuut's original proposal on just having a total number of DNs allowed. That I think might appease the non-OOB types to a certian extent.

How about in addition to the OOB BP/CP assigned ships, that are now freely transferable once every 12 hours. You create three separate FM like positions. One can be used for DNs. It is basically a standing DN that a side can always have online, and it is first come first serve who gets it. The ship still counts for VCs if killed or captured (so it can't be used on suicide missions), but if it is lost the player is just banned from filling that FM position for 24 hours.

The DN  counts towards the teams 3 max online at anyone time. This basically means that the BP built DNs will end up being limited two online at a time with the other slot having priority to pilots that didn't get assigned a ship. However, pilots assigned a DN could also fill the FM slot if they have 2 other assigned DNs already on and no unassigned pilots wants to fly the DN.

A BCH FM position works the same as the DN position but isn't subject to any max online rule.

A Specialty ship FM position works the same as the BCH but isn't subject to VC penalties. (or maybe it is. Like 1 VC if you lose one). It would still be subject to a pilot getting killed can't fill that position for 24 hours though.

In my head this is a compromise that allows both the OOB people to still get the strategic significance out of an econ based resource allocation system, keeps the cheese down, but allows every players the opportunity to still  fly those cheesy ships we all love.

[Kroma BaSyl]

You dont have to agree with what i think about the OOB issue, you have your opinion and i have mine fair enough. I did state near the begining of the thread that i found OOB for BB/DN/BCH is i believe fair enough as that seems to be the general concensus by most players that that is enough.

I only voiced my oppostion to the idea of implementing more OOB in terms of starting to look at CA's, CL's etc. which i think is going to far. Perosnally I dont like OOB but with the DN/BCH thing i can live with it and fly a dyna that hs those rules but starting to implement more i would perosnally choose not to fly that server. I have flown dynas that have OOB on both DN's and BCH's and despite the fact at times i find it annoying that i cant fly the ship that i want i can deal with it. Sure i could ask the RM if i could fly a restricted ship but thats not the point.

DH may create threads at times to ask for opinions but from several comments he has stated recently he has showed his true nature that he doesnt give a toss what those people say. So dh why ask for opinions if you state they dont matter? You go on about cheese all the time, there is no universal agreed defintion on what is cheese and what isnt, either way your crusuade against so called cheese in order to acheive balance is going to have an impact either stopping indiviualds play or even helping to decline certain races playerbase. You are not going to be able to achieve full balance without some races feel that they are getting shafted someway.

The playerbase is declining, sure its because the game is ageing and becomming less popular, but you have to admit we had major drops in numbers from people who still regard OP as a good game to play but due to arguments over the past few dynas relating to shiplist and other issues such as race quarrels. So i dont think you can entirely blame new games such as EVE and the ageing of OP as the major factor why people recently have given up the game. I am full aware there were a large amount of players that left a long time ago as mentioned by Hexx, but we have also seen major declines recently say over the past few dynas.

Overall my posts were made in context to the frustration i had and my fears for the future, which of course i'm entitled to.

This will probably be my last post on the subject, i dont have the time or the effort to argue with you Kroma/DH, we have a difference of opinion i guess we leave it at that.

Honestly Grim, I ain't mad at you and neither is DH. We were not laughing at your idea either. It is just an inside joke about trying not to piss people off that we found funny. It has been a running joke for a why, and you accidentally quoted it perfectly. It was the height of irony that you posted it in the context you did in our warped little world. Nothing personnel was meant by it.

As Bach alluded to, it is just my posting style that I like to incite debate. This is my brand of forum fun. I am hoping to incite some D2 Server creating vigor out there though. The surest sign that we need a dyna to play on is when the forum post count and temperature start to soar.

[762_XC]

What I call a "non-ace"  is a player casual or nutter who doesn't consider themselves overly skilled at pvp, lets call him "X". 

Rhymes with...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

What I call a "non-ace"  is a player casual or nutter who doesn't consider themselves overly skilled at pvp, lets call him "X". 

Rhymes with...

<Snicker>

wondering who would catch that 

[FPF-Bach]

Oh come on, you guys are worse than ex-girlfriends with bring up p00p that you said 20 years ago out of context 

DH you posted it 8 days ago.  It's not exactly out of context either you may not have been talking specifically about OOB but you were talking about ships.  Are you going to try say that the quote in question is not your approach in general and that it only applies to OOB and that you are completly open to everything else....   didn't think so.

[FPF-Bach]

You too continue to miss the point. He isn't making the point that he is going to exclude people so much as pointing out that he will always do what he thinks is best for the servers he works on regardless of the result of polls or th vocal minority on the forums (which was the context from which that quote was taken out of). If you feel excluded it is of your own doing, as there is nothing stopping the lot of yo from trying out your own ideas.

How do you know what context that quote was in, you don't even have access to the forum it was posted in?

[Kroma BaSyl]

You too continue to miss the point. He isn't making the point that he is going to exclude people so much as pointing out that he will always do what he thinks is best for the servers he works on regardless of the result of polls or th vocal minority on the forums (which was the context from which that quote was taken out of). If you feel excluded it is of your own doing, as there is nothing stopping the lot of yo from trying out your own ideas.

How do you know what context that quote was in, you don't even have access to the forum it was posted in?

He has made the exact same post on these forums in the context I meantioned. Several times in fact. So that is how smarty pants.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Oh come on, you guys are worse than ex-girlfriends with bring up p00p that you said 20 years ago out of context 

DH you posted it 8 days ago.  It's not exactly out of context either you may not have been talking specifically about OOB but you were talking about ships.  Are you going to try say that the quote in question is not your approach in general and that it only applies to OOB and that you are completly open to everything else....   didn't think so.

No I believe he is saynig he will make his own decision ultimately as to what he will do with a server he works on. Because he isn't running a community approved and designed server. However, just because he doesn't have to listen to and incorporate your ideas doesn't mean he doesn't listen to ideas. He just isn't bound by polls or a desire or responsibility to please all parties, because server admining ain't a democracy.

[FPF-Bach]

Here is the point Bach. Why do DH and I have to agree to incoporate or pretent to like Grim or anyone elses ideas? We are just expressing our opinion of them as we have thought this stuff out and have come to different conclusions than you guys. We also have our own vision of the dynas we want to invest our time in. We use players ideas all the time, hell I doubt DH ever had an original thought in his life, he mostly just plagerizes anyway. We don't use every idea though as no one dyna can be everything to everyone. If you really care about keeping those 10 players around then I suggest you put up a dyna that meets their and hopefully a wider array of players needs in addition to those being run along the OOB scheme of play. We have the other 39 satisfied, and feel that to attempt to appease that 10 players would alienate 10 players from the other camp, which happens to be the camp that is most fun for us.

It appears that I  am not the only one that is missing the point here and it's very apparent that you have no concern for the player base as a whole just the ones that see things your way.

I never typed anywhere that you and DH HAD to agree to do anything please find that I did and quote me on it if you can.  I even went so far is to say it's your server and you can obviously do what ya want.  I'm not telling anyone they have to do anything what planet are you on?

The point is everybody knows you can't please everybody no matter what, but why not take the extra step when it comes to forum decorum and try not to drive more people away?