Topic: Server Ideas.. feel free to try and make me feel stupid..

[Hexx]

Hey Everybody!
 
In my continuing quest to attempt to tweak and improve things that probably don't need tweeking or improving
I've been toying with a few ideas to use on server. As the title sayd- of you think these won't work let me know.
try and use small words if possible.

1)- SFB standard fighters loadouts - pros, lots of fighters, cons' bad if you're A) not in a carrier
                                                                                                      B) don't like fighters


2)- Carrier Groups (player flying carrier may take second ship as escort, Escort would be worth say 5VP if killed, Carrier 10)
Pros- Makes carriers  alittle more realistic, means even DNH's would have to be a little wary around the big ships.
Cons- Some races (ie Lyrans) have absolutley terrible escorts. Other escorts have tons of drones so it's easy to overwhelm
        just about anyone with drones.

3)-PVP "Ace" bonus VP. Everyone knows some players (Madelf) are harder to kill than others (Dizzy) This is kind of rewarding someone hunting down and destroying an enemy "Ace" ship and crew.
All PVP is tracked (which it pretty much is anyway) 1 VP (+ ship VP if any) for every PVP kill on the server. An Ace pilot is worth one vp (plus ship) for every pilot he's killed.
So say DH is lumbering around in that beast he feels safe in, smashes 6 D5D's (cuz no one ever loses a DN to a D5D right?) DH is now worth 6vp if killed.


4) Have Fast Cruisers + DNL's immune to deepstrike rules of no disengement unless caught by anothe CF or DNL.
(Didn't this get tried once?)

5) I mentioned this before, didn't get alot of feedback o it, but I like the idea
- Have evryone at the server start Assigned specialty ships X# od CVA's Dn's BChs etc
Very very very few more will be built.
-Pros Everyone who wants one gets to fly the specialty ships
-Cons -If you lose your big ship your stuck in something smaller for (likely) the rest of the server.
Will peeps play as much if they don't have the pp going towards getting themselves a big ship ) I think so but..)
Some would consider it a con because it would provide "unrealistic" numbers of SFB ships.
Having recently discovered that the Klinks only built 10 C7 class ships (including variants) in total, I'd say the numbers are already out of whack so why bother,





 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

3)-PVP "Ace" bonus VP. Everyone knows some players (Madelf) are harder to kill than others (Dizzy) This is kind of rewarding someone hunting down and destroying an enemy "Ace" ship and crew.
All PVP is tracked (which it pretty much is anyway) 1 VP (+ ship VP if any) for every PVP kill on the server. An Ace pilot is worth one vp (plus ship) for every pilot he's killed.
So say DH is lumbering around in that beast he feels safe in, smashes 6 D5D's (cuz no one ever loses a DN to a D5D right?) DH is now worth 6vp if killed.

Why don't we all go self destruct our ships in front of Hexx, so we can build up his value then all jump him one by one to collect the big points........

4) Have Fast Cruisers + DNL's immune to deepstrike rules of no disengement unless caught by anothe CF or DNL.
(Didn't this get tried once?)

 

Not all fast cruisers are created equal, sometimes deepstrikes are the only way to get then to stay in mission.  I could opperate for days in a Gorn BF under this rule behind the lines, and just disengage if opposed.  If you do this just simply get rid of the deepstrike rule all together.

5) I mentioned this before, didn't get alot of feedback o it, but I like the idea
- Have evryone at the server start Assigned specialty ships X# od CVA's Dn's BChs etc
Very very very few more will be built.
-Pros Everyone who wants one gets to fly the specialty ships
-Cons -If you lose your big ship your stuck in something smaller for (likely) the rest of the server.
Will peeps play as much if they don't have the pp going towards getting themselves a big ship ) I think so but..)
Some would consider it a con because it would provide "unrealistic" numbers of SFB ships.
Having recently discovered that the Klinks only built 10 C7 class ships (including variants) in total, I'd say the numbers are already out of whack so why bother,

Too much cheese for the lactose intolerant. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Hey Everybody!
 
In my continuing quest to attempt to tweak and improve things that probably don't need tweeking or improving
I've been toying with a few ideas to use on server. As the title sayd- of you think these won't work let me know.
try and use small words if possible.

1)- SFB standard fighters loadouts - pros, lots of fighters, cons' bad if you're A) not in a carrier
                                                                                                      B) don't like fighters

This can be balanced with OOB Build costs.  A CVA with 24 fighters is worth 4 BP if a Heavy DN is 3.

2)- Carrier Groups (player flying carrier may take second ship as escort, Escort would be worth say 5VP if killed, Carrier 10)
Pros- Makes carriers  alittle more realistic, means even DNH's would have to be a little wary around the big ships.
Cons- Some races (ie Lyrans) have absolutley terrible escorts. Other escorts have tons of drones so it's easy to overwhelm
        just about anyone with drones.

I would alow other multi-ship combos if any are allowed.

3)-PVP "Ace" bonus VP. Everyone knows some players (Madelf) are harder to kill than others (Dizzy) This is kind of rewarding someone hunting down and destroying an enemy "Ace" ship and crew.
All PVP is tracked (which it pretty much is anyway) 1 VP (+ ship VP if any) for every PVP kill on the server. An Ace pilot is worth one vp (plus ship) for every pilot he's killed.
So say DH is lumbering around in that beast he feels safe in, smashes 6 D5D's (cuz no one ever loses a DN to a D5D right?) DH is now worth 6vp if killed.

I like this idea a lot! 

4) Have Fast Cruisers + DNL's immune to deepstrike rules of no disengement unless caught by anothe CF or DNL.
(Didn't this get tried once?)

DNLs and CFs have enough advantages and are already munchkin, they don't need any more.







 

[FPF-Paladin]

1)- SFB standard fighters loadouts - pros, lots of fighters, cons' bad if you're A) not in a carrier
                                                                                                      B) don't like fighters

2)- Carrier Groups (player flying carrier may take second ship as escort, Escort would be worth say 5VP if killed, Carrier 10)
Pros- Makes carriers  alittle more realistic, means even DNH's would have to be a little wary around the big ships.
Cons- Some races (ie Lyrans) have absolutley terrible escorts. Other escorts have tons of drones so it's easy to overwhelm just about anyone with drones.

3)-PVP "Ace" bonus VP. Everyone knows some players (Madelf) are harder to kill than others (Dizzy) This is kind of rewarding someone hunting down and destroying an enemy "Ace" ship and crew.
All PVP is tracked (which it pretty much is anyway) 1 VP (+ ship VP if any) for every PVP kill on the server. An Ace pilot is worth one vp (plus ship) for every pilot he's killed.
So say DH is lumbering around in that beast he feels safe in, smashes 6 D5D's (cuz no one ever loses a DN to a D5D right?) DH is now worth 6vp if killed.


4) Have Fast Cruisers + DNL's immune to deepstrike rules of no disengement unless caught by anothe CF or DNL.
(Didn't this get tried once?)

5) I mentioned this before, didn't get alot of feedback o it, but I like the idea
- Have evryone at the server start Assigned specialty ships X# od CVA's Dn's BChs etc
Very very very few more will be built.
-Pros Everyone who wants one gets to fly the specialty ships
-Cons -If you lose your big ship your stuck in something smaller for (likely) the rest of the server.
Will peeps play as much if they don't have the pp going towards getting themselves a big ship ) I think so but..)
Some would consider it a con because it would provide "unrealistic" numbers of SFB ships.
Having recently discovered that the Klinks only built 10 C7 class ships (including variants) in total, I'd say the numbers are already out of whack so why bother,

The Ace idea is interesting.

I think carriers already throw enough drones in the air as it is, and honestly the idea of allowing a carrier pilot to have a second ship(depends on what you allow of course...)  isn't going to help.  Maybe allowing multi ship fleets consisting of line ship + command ship etc. like what has been suggested in the past, so that others Not flying carriers have a chance against them.

I kind of see where you would suggest the assigned/specialty ship idea for the first of a server, and although it would be nice not to see so many big ships all the way through, I think it might take something away from the D2.  Part of it for me always has been working towards something... if we get all the toys at the first, how many would stay once they lose them and have to face what's left in a "normal" ship?  I'm mainly thinking of newer players here.  Might be anticlimatic?

Otherwise.. I'm just glad you're asking opinions.

 

[FPF-DieHard]

About the carrier and fighter numbers it boils down to a simple question, how tough do you want carriers to be?

Carriers can be really tough and still be balanced with other controls such as OOB, CnC, PP Cost (we set Strike carriers at around 20K PP on GW3 and they still got flown like crazy so this don't hold much water), etc.

If an F-CVS+/Z-CVS+ costs with 12 fighters costs as much as a C7 (and playtesting shows this to be a close fight) that the system is balanced.

[Hexx]

Thanks for the notes all
Although Chuut I must point out that I really didn't need to know you can take a Gorn BFing for
days.. thanks..

So unfortunatly the BCH idea seems to find littel support, ah well I'm sure I'll do it someday.
The Carrier with SFB fighters is something I'd like to see, I'm kinda apathetic on the idea of escorts, it makes sense but
I'm not sure it would work now that I've thought more about it.

Anyway new proposals (I've mentioned this to a few people before but)

Refitting ships (atm) is instantaneous. What about an upgrade rule that says a ship to be upgraded has to be taken out of action for a year (basically 1 day) ie you have a DN in 2277, DNH comes out in 2279 as of the start of 2278 you can take that DN out of service for a day(so it will be rady on it's offical FYA) or you can do it later, hoping you'll have a free day on the server as your opponent takes theirs out of commision.
-Honestly I don't think it would effect things to much (except for some additonal record keeping) as I would still expect everyone to haul their big ships out of servcie for a day to get the benefits. Of course if there's a battle rging over some VP target it might make a difference.

C&C - One of your sides "big ships" must be designated as flagship. (Doesn't have to be the RMs or A/RM's) if said flagship gets killed no ship transfers can be done for 24 hrs.
Or maybe you just lose the server automaically, have to think about this one.

[Hexx]

BTW I assume all those carriers are in the J1 and/or J2 modules?
Or do I have to order another bunch of stuff?

And has anyone managed to make SCS? I can't seem to get PF models to show up if there
are fighters on the ships- I get the launch msg, and they "respond" msg to wahtever I ask them to do
but the PF's don't actually seem to be there.

[FPF-DieHard]

And has anyone managed to make SCS? I can't seem to get PF models to show up if there
are fighters on the ships- I get the launch msg, and they "respond" msg to wahtever I ask them to do
but the PF's don't actually seem to be there.

You CANNOT put PFs and fighter groups on the same ship. 

[Bonk]

You can put fighters on a PF though to simulate the effect - bout as close as it gets.

[Hexx]

Well that's just... upsetting.

<sigh> and I had such plans for a BCS with 2 PF's firing dizzes and 12 fighters launching drones at my enemies.
(of course I suppose THEY"D want BCS's as wll... cheating bastards)

[Dizzy]

bonks right
for a Star wars mod, i have Star Destroyers dropping 4x hangar bays. Each hangar has either 16 ftrs or 4 PF's. Only way to do it...

[Hexx]

So basically the hanger bays are PF's? (with no power etc I assume-) is that how you did it?

[Commander Maxillius]

Is it possible to make a "PF" a part of your ship, say have it tethered to you and exacly mimic your movement with no AI involvement at all?

Even cut its control of a certain sysyem (shuttlebay)?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

, cons' bad if you're A) not in a carrier
                                                                                     

3)-PVP "Ace" bonus VP. Everyone knows some players (Madelf) are harder to kill than others (Dizzy) This is kind of rewarding someone hunting down and destroying an enemy "Ace" ship and crew.
All PVP is tracked (which it pretty much is anyway) 1 VP (+ ship VP if any) for every PVP kill on the server. An Ace pilot is worth one vp (plus ship) for every pilot he's killed.
So say DH is lumbering around in that beast he feels safe in, smashes 6 D5D's (cuz no one ever loses a DN to a D5D right?) DH is now worth 6vp if killed.

I like this idea a lot! 

Somebody get DH off the crackpipe fast.  Honestly I don;t think he could focus after the DH killing the D5Ds bit.

Now if you really want to do this use VC bounties give each side a certain total and allow then only to assign points up to the number of kills a pilot has achieved.  For example you got 10 points  DH has killed 6 pilots, so you can give him up to 6 points of VC bounty, the remaining points to be used vs other pilots.  I'd suggest limiting the total number able to be placed on a pilot as well, otherwise an ACE pilot might be "running scared" and less likely to engage in a match where he had too much at stake vs a non-ace in a similar ship.

[Hexx]

See that's where you're wronf Chuut.. I knw you hear that alot as a Kzinti, but this time it's true
(well I'm sure it was all the other times as well)

1)-Actually I didn't mention that it would reset once the pilot in question had been killed, so in the above example DH' would only be worth 6 pts
until his DN met my BCH, then he'd be worth one again.

2)- It should (i think) balance out amonst the races -You yourself would probably win two or three then a loss, DH maybe 4or 5, Madelf maybe 7
Sure I'd be worth over 50 by the server end, but it wouldn't be like there was any danger of someone collecting. I'd just have to pay attention to my flying rather than
working on Quantum physics like I do now when I'm flying PvP.

Plus many players (well J'inn & Dizzy) would never really be worth more than one.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Do you realize the record keeping involved?

I'd say go with the system I outlined if any, as otherwise YOUwould be spending lots of time trying to figure out how many points a particualr player was worth at the particular time they were killed.  And also YOU would be pretty busy keeping the list updated as to how many points people were worth so that everyone could see who the biggest targets were.

[Hexx]

Do you realize the record keeping involved?

I'd say go with the system I outlined if any, as otherwise YOUwould be spending lots of time trying to figure out how many points a particualr player was worth at the particular time they were killed.  And also YOU would be pretty busy keeping the list updated as to how many points people were worth so that everyone could see who the biggest targets were.

Yes but do you realize how easy it would make it for ME to cheat?
I mean it would be so...
errr forget I said that... move along.. nothing to read here..

Actually it would'nt be that much record keeping (I'm thinking.. likely wrongly) A simple PVP kill list in these forums would keep it up to date.
You kill
someone, you post it, along with how many kills you have.
The only thing I'd be concerned of is a few players (J'inn &Dizzy) that would have very short kill lists, they might feel bad.

Sides with all the help you've offered recently I'm sure you'd be willing to track it all for me 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

If you used the system I outlined

Now if you really want to do this use VC bounties give each side a certain total and allow then only to assign points up to the number of kills a pilot has achieved.  For example you got 10 points  DH has killed 6 pilots, so you can give him up to 6 points of VC bounty, the remaining points to be used vs other pilots.  I'd suggest limiting the total number able to be placed on a pilot as well, otherwise an ACE pilot might be "running scared" and less likely to engage in a match where he had too much at stake vs a non-ace in a similar ship.

the VC values would be relatively stable updated only when RMs posted the VC bounties.  all you'd have to do is to verify the number of kills for those that had the bounties placed on them making sure they matched, and wouldn't have to trouble with other pilots (who would still be worth 1 each), nor would you have to be continually updating, you would only update when an RM made a bouty assisnment.