Topic: A Klingon Khristmas  (Read 7333 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Wicked Zombie

  • His Unholiness
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Gender: Male
    • Demon Renegade Studios
A Klingon Khristmas
« on: December 18, 2004, 02:26:40 am »
Rounding out the last of the '04 releases are a pair of Klingons. One is the slightly tweaked K'tinga class, notably with a brand new engine texture. The other is the long awaited B10 Bloodstalker Battleship for all those Grinches who want to put a little coal in the Feds' stockings.























« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 02:45:05 am by Wicked Zombie »
DRS Forums
Klingon Texture Tutorial - Aztec Summary



Reports, incredible as they may seem, are not the results of mass hysteria...

Offline Rod ONeal

  • D.Net Beta Tester
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3592
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2004, 02:45:04 am »
Wow, a real B10 from WZ! Very nice, man. Thanks much and merry Khristmas to you too. :)

Got the B10. It's awesome. The K'tinga link is broken though. :'(
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 03:07:13 am by Rod ONeal »
If Romulans aren't cowards, then why do they taste like chicken?

Offline Dawntreader

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 255
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain Maverick, USS Dawntreader
    • Dawntreader Shipyard
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2004, 04:14:02 am »
The Ktinga link works.
Awsome.  Love the tweaks.  The Ktinga looks much better.  As far as the Bloodstalker goes, I never liked the SFB design.  It looks so contrived.  I liked your version of the Taldren B10 better.  I will add it to my collection nonetheless.  It is very well made. ;D

Edit:  Are those burn marks?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 04:35:49 am by Dawntreader »
Dawntreader Shipyard
"Where sky and water meet,
Where the waves grow sweet,
Doubt not, Reepicheep,
To find all you seek,
There is the utter east."
-'Voyage of The Dawn Treader' C.S.Lewis

Offline Klingon Fanatic

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2070
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2004, 08:13:49 am »
 ;D Thank you WZ45! Merry X-mas to you too.

WOW! I'd love to see the angular struts on the command pod neck [not the head or mini-engines] put on the C-7.

Now only if the Klingon Empire can find out the secret to Santa's Sliegh....

Qapla!

KF
HoD Radjekk Vor Thruum
IKV Kraag Dorr
SuvwI' Qeh KCC
Commander, Task Force Kraag Dorr's Teeth First Strike Squadron

Offline Chris Johnson

  • I used to be a Captain a forum or two ago...
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 817
  • Gender: Male
  • Hai! Hai!
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2004, 10:24:19 am »
I always thought that B10 design never looked so good for a battleship, being an up-sized K'T'inga-class with more nacelles and gizmos, even though there's probably some sort of function following this form.  With how you model it, it doesn't look as bad as I normally thought the design would be.  In fact, it looks really Klingon a design rather than just a fan kitbash or something.  I also like the improvements to the K'T'inga-class myself.  Once again, good work.  It never fails to amaze me, or other people.  A worthwhile "Khristmas" present. :) Merry Khristmas to you too WZ.

"Oh, shut up!" -- Wil Wheaton to Wesley Crusher

Offline Sandman3D

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1224
  • Gender: Male
  • Outalance Shipyards
    • SEDL
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2004, 10:27:20 am »
HOLY CRAP!! Helm, hard about, maximum warp!!

Great chit man!! ;D
"Proudly you gathered, rank on rank to war,
As you heard God's message from afar;
All you had hoped for, all you had, you gave
To save mankind-yourself you scorned to save."

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2004, 10:46:27 am »
::drops jaw::

::owww::

::puts bandaid on chin::

::drops jaw again::

::oww::

::repeat::

Offline markyd

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2090
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2004, 11:27:53 am »
Love the prezzie idea.... the ships arn't bad either... jk  ;)

rofl

once again... great stuff  8)

Offline Age

  • D.Net VIP
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2690
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2004, 11:36:55 am »
  I didn't think there was going to be anything in those bages but much to my surprise after clicking on them there is .Pretty crafty there WZ.

Offline USS Mariner

  • Heavy Cruiser, NCC-1712
  • D.Net Beta Tester
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2004, 11:54:41 am »
You should wrap your pics more often, becuase this time my IE didn't overload... ;D

Nice job on the B10, looks very authentic to the actual SFB design without being too overly bulky. The separation is a nice toucht too. ;D
"Improve a mechanical device and you may double productivity. But improve man, you gain a thousandfold." - Khan

Steam: Mariner1712

Offline E_Look

  • Grand High Scribe
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6446
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2004, 11:57:34 am »
Wow!  It separates!!  Now THAT'S cool!  Oh yeah... nice job on the art & design, too.

Offline Wicked Zombie

  • His Unholiness
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Gender: Male
    • Demon Renegade Studios
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2004, 01:59:32 pm »
I can't take full credit for the design as the general shape of it is based off of Atolm's concept sketch:



I also took design cues from the original SFB version and some of my other Klingon ships for lineage's sake.

Yeah, those are burn marks. I was trying for the "new, but overused" look, minus all the space dust and grime that Klingon ships eventually accumulate.
DRS Forums
Klingon Texture Tutorial - Aztec Summary



Reports, incredible as they may seem, are not the results of mass hysteria...

Offline FoaS_XC

  • Photorps, Sammiches, woot woot.
  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 4571
  • Gender: Male
    • Robinomicon
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2004, 04:36:51 pm »
Great god almighty...that ship is great!
Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Khalee002

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 290
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2004, 06:28:42 pm »
Well cence you posted here ill tell you that there is a problem with you fed tug download I keep getting invalad file when I try to open it after downloading it.

Offline Wicked Zombie

  • His Unholiness
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Gender: Male
    • Demon Renegade Studios
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2004, 06:35:33 pm »
Yes, I got the email regarding it. I've reposted the file twice already and it was working fine last time I checked. Why anyone else is having a problem with it is beyond me, though NightSoft tends to butcher my zip files on occasion.
DRS Forums
Klingon Texture Tutorial - Aztec Summary



Reports, incredible as they may seem, are not the results of mass hysteria...

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2004, 08:36:17 pm »
Quote
??

Thats what I get when I go to ur site.

Offline Wicked Zombie

  • His Unholiness
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 387
  • Gender: Male
    • Demon Renegade Studios
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2004, 08:55:59 pm »
Yeah, gotta love Nightsoft - it's almost predictable in it's oddness. I'm actually surprised it lasted this long after posting the new ships before yacking on the files.
DRS Forums
Klingon Texture Tutorial - Aztec Summary



Reports, incredible as they may seem, are not the results of mass hysteria...

Offline Wolfsglen

  • Starship Mutilator
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 206
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2004, 09:44:01 pm »
That really is beautiful, thank you  :thumbsup:

Offline MajorRacal

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
    • MajorRacal's Micro Shipyards
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2004, 02:21:07 pm »
I started to a more detailed reply to this, but on reading it I decided it was just so negative, I'd be better off holding my tongue to avoid upsetting anyone...  However, textures aside, I've got to say, that this is the ugliest WZ model / Azel design I've ever seen...  :o

Sorry

MajorRacal

Offline Dizzy

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6179
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2004, 02:46:10 pm »
+1 karma, majorrascal for being bold enough to say something negative. I disagree. I dont think its bad at all.

Offline Chris Johnson

  • I used to be a Captain a forum or two ago...
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 817
  • Gender: Male
  • Hai! Hai!
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2004, 02:51:06 pm »
I don't think Klingons would want to implement a Terran-style of beauty to please the majority of Starfleet whilst shoving it into battle... Klingons--more than Federation--design form with function a little more than the Federation does.  If you truely want beauty in Starships, try looking towards the Romulan Star Empire and their bird-shaped starships they've designed over the years.

"Oh, shut up!" -- Wil Wheaton to Wesley Crusher

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2004, 04:15:52 pm »
Really there's no need to say that a warrior culture can't appreciate aesthetics, most warlike cultures in history have had a sense of appreciation for beauty of their weaponry and it's use, take the Japanese, the Tenchu and it's replacement the Katana made swordcraft and swordfighting a deadly artform, planes, guns, armour; everything that's been used to kill often happens to look pretty nice at the same time, aesthetics is more often than not a function of ergonomics.
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline FoaS_XC

  • Photorps, Sammiches, woot woot.
  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 4571
  • Gender: Male
    • Robinomicon
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2004, 04:38:57 pm »
"Form follows Function" as atolm likes to remind me.

The ship is great, its an awsome extrapolation of a B10.
Robinomicon
"When I was 5 years old, my mom always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down “happy.” They told me I didn’t understand the assignment and I told them they didn’t understand life."

Offline Chris Johnson

  • I used to be a Captain a forum or two ago...
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 817
  • Gender: Male
  • Hai! Hai!
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2004, 05:02:32 pm »
Really there's no need to say that a warrior culture can't appreciate aesthetics, most warlike cultures in history have had a sense of appreciation for beauty of their weaponry and it's use, take the Japanese, the Tenchu and it's replacement the Katana made swordcraft and swordfighting a deadly artform, planes, guns, armour; everything that's been used to kill often happens to look pretty nice at the same time, aesthetics is more often than not a function of ergonomics.

That still doesn't mean Klingons have to comply to our species's view of aesthetics.  They have aesthetics of their own.  What they can value aesthetic we can value ugly.  One person's garbage is another person's tresure.

"Oh, shut up!" -- Wil Wheaton to Wesley Crusher

Offline Azel

  • Captain
  • Read Only
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 896
  • Captain
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2004, 05:49:44 pm »
I started to a more detailed reply to this, but on reading it I decided it was just so negative, I'd be better off holding my tongue to avoid upsetting anyone...  However, textures aside, I've got to say, that this is the ugliest WZ model / Azel design I've ever seen...  :o

Sorry

MajorRacal
LOL
First off your comment is correct...but considering the original source of the design...I feel that this is a major improvement...As many of you can attest SFB and FASA starships have alot to be desired  in their designs...lol
I mean with SFB the designs are made from only one hull type (say a D-7) and ran with it till its death...even to the point of nonsense.
This is not SFB fault though as they only had 4 ships to choose from: Connie, D-7, BoP, and Tholian...no variants were ever made due to budgetary constraints
FASA runs into a similar problem...but they had more references to go by and to "mangle" again I am sure that the concepts were of good intent but not so good execution.
See everyone is going tio run into the problem of "Cool" vs not...its a personal opinion basted on the level of conservatism and era of that person being raised
I know tons of people who love the  SFB designs and consider the newer stuff to be "BS" and the same can be said viice versa .
I personally like the way this ship came out...considering its origin...I know your problems with the design MR...and its cool.   You and I have discussed our astetics on starship design numerous times...so I know where you are comming from..and that's cool...but all I say is consider the source of the actual design and compare it as a TMP refit of the design as done by Me and WZ...if you donot like it its cool...just don't DL it...
Hope to catch  you soon Online mate :)
Cheers and Happy Holidays
All Things End

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2004, 06:11:56 pm »
I don't think it's that ugly, personally, sure it's no comparison with the K'T'inga or the B'rel but that's not really practical with a Battleship. Still it's about ten times better looking than the qeylIS-betleH from Klingon Academy. The only thing I'd really change about it is the front engines are really dinky, they are just a bit disproportionately small for such a bulky ship, it looks even worse when the front is separated, I can see they're meant to be the same engines as on the K'T'inga but still.

BTW Atolm, bet you can't make a good looking TMP Klingon SFB frigate - the E4/F5, (at least not without completely designing a new ship and not using anything from the SFB one). ;)
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline Azel

  • Captain
  • Read Only
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 896
  • Captain
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2004, 06:58:14 pm »
Quote
BTW Atolm, bet you can't make a good looking TMP Klingon SFB frigate - the E4/F5, (at least not without completely designing a new ship and not using anything from the SFB one)
???  wait are you asking me to redesign it totally or to use the current SFB design and make it "work" better???
All Things End

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2004, 07:30:16 pm »
existing design, make it work better. I said it'd be almost impossible to make it look good without totally redesigning it knowing full well that you'd probably find a way to make it look good anyway, half-joking, half-challenge.
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline Azel

  • Captain
  • Read Only
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 896
  • Captain
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2004, 08:14:08 pm »
ok..np..I did it and handed it over to WZ for review
All Things End

Offline USS Mariner

  • Heavy Cruiser, NCC-1712
  • D.Net Beta Tester
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2004, 08:15:59 pm »
ok..np..I did it and handed it over to WZ for review

 :o
"Improve a mechanical device and you may double productivity. But improve man, you gain a thousandfold." - Khan

Steam: Mariner1712

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #30 on: December 19, 2004, 09:06:52 pm »
holy sheaoiuaeoaeaeaaeoit that was fast :o
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline madelf

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 181
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2004, 09:36:42 pm »
Really there's no need to say that a warrior culture can't appreciate aesthetics, most warlike cultures in history have had a sense of appreciation for beauty of their weaponry and it's use, take the Japanese, the Tenchu and it's replacement the Katana made swordcraft and swordfighting a deadly artform, planes, guns, armour; everything that's been used to kill often happens to look pretty nice at the same time, aesthetics is more often than not a function of ergonomics.

That still doesn't mean Klingons have to comply to our species's view of aesthetics.  They have aesthetics of their own.  What they can value aesthetic we can value ugly.  One person's garbage is another person's tresure.

"We" happen to think it's quite beautiful.   ;)

Offline KBF-Crim

  • 1st Deacon ,Church of Taldren
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12271
  • Gender: Male
  • Crim,son of Rus'l
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2004, 11:39:47 pm »
What the elf said... ;)

Offline Rod ONeal

  • D.Net Beta Tester
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3592
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #33 on: December 20, 2004, 12:34:00 am »
Generally, what determines whether or not a design/look is good or not is how it stands the test of time. Old corvettes and Ferraris still look good. Some, 50yrs. after their design. The same is true for the TOS Connie and D7. They get updated, but the designs are still good ones.

So, only time will tell. Of course I like it, personally, and I hope that the designs keep coming.
If Romulans aren't cowards, then why do they taste like chicken?

Offline MajorRacal

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
    • MajorRacal's Micro Shipyards
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2004, 07:45:52 am »
For the benefit of everyone else, I wasn't actually attacking Azel or WZ for the B-10, and since I don't want to start to leave anything that could be construed as unpleasant, I think I should explain my earlier comment...

I knew Azel would understand my disquiet, and as he said - we've discussed aesthetics on many occasions and we pretty much know where we stand on certain issues (I'll say no more on warp nacelles  ;D).  In fact most of the time we agree, and come up with similar ideas, because we tend to share a similar aesthetic taste.  Azel, arguaby showcases his beautiful organic designs better than anyone else and better than I ever will - and I doubt I'll ever reach the point where I can even sniff WZ's modelling and texturing prowess.

Anyway, as for my particular opinion of this particular model, I HAD to post, because it is unique, in that this is the ONLY design I've ever seen either from WZ or Azel that I've actually loathed.  As I pointed out, my original post would have highlighted my reasoning in greater detail, but when I re-read it, I felt it was just too negative and frankly could have been construed as inflamatory - neither of which would have been helpful nor desirable - so I changed it...

Now for the benefit of others, about my personal ideal on Klingon design... form is as important as function.  This IS a personal ideal and you're free to disagree, but if you look at what we've seen of Klingon culture so far, you might understand why: the weapons, the architecture, the ships, the glyphs of their writing, even their cultural crests - all stem from a common aesthetic - clean, sweeping lines and hard edges - simple, elegant, functional and menacing.  For me, this is what is lacking in the B-10... there are certainly the lines and edges, but these are interupted and give a disjointed appearance.  There is too much going on in one small space and the elegance is stolen.  Rather than appear menacing, she appears awkward and clumsy.  Now, for a race of warriors, it is surely important that intimidation of foes is an essential aspect of any warfare, so this awkwardness is clearly not in their best interest.  The psychological aspect of catching sight of one or more of their ships on your tail is clearly an important one.  Even in our own culture this is true - size alone is not the critical factor in intimation - or else we'd all be scared of everyday things like buses or multi-storey buildings.  Menace is designed in.  It's may not necessarily be a conscious decision, but it is often there...  In our airforces, the fighters tend to emulate the shapes of fast avian predators - now if you think about that, you'll mostly find that throughout (natural) history, these predatory forms are stripped down to the bare essentials to enhance their function - hunting.  It could be argued that in our airforces this is can be mostly pegged to aerodynamics, but since these designs progressively emulate nature to various degrees, these shapes are ones that a great deal of lifeforms naturally identify with predation and therefore link directly to the notion of threat, danger and intimidation.  Now if we look at more mundane things like cars - again this should be evident.  Someone mentioned the likes of Ferrari etc... here again form reflects function and I'm sure you'll agree, common emotive descriptors for sports type cars are 'mean' or 'fierce', both descriptors of intimidation and fear.  However, in addition, there is a strong notion of beauty and desirability - which links again to the notion of elegance...  I could go and on and bore you silly (or confuse you with my overly prosaic explanation), but you can see that I've actually thought about what it is I don't like, and why I feel this way about this particular design - it's much more than a 'this sucks'.

In balance, I must admit, that based on the more hideous original source material , this is a well constructed model and beautifully textured to WZ's usual high standard - and so, I respectfully tip my hat to you both!!

MajorRacal

PS - WZ/Azel keep 'em coming,..

PPS - Azel, I finish working on Wednesday so  I'll catch you over the holidays for another marathon blether - but I still have homework and four case studies to do for before my Hypnotherapy exam in mid January, so my time will likely be limited.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2004, 09:54:26 am by MajorRacal »

Offline Azel

  • Captain
  • Read Only
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 896
  • Captain
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2004, 08:02:31 am »
Aye!!!
Sounds Great

I look foward to chatting on Weds

Look for me...I will make myself availble :)
All Things End

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #36 on: December 20, 2004, 10:46:03 am »
Racal, I understand your criticism of this ship and I can see what it is that you dislike in it, I generally speaking agree with you, the general aesthetic that Klingon ships sheem to share is absent but I think it is not the whole ship but rather certain aspects of it that look awkward. Specifically the bizzare and rather stupid multi-layered bridge structure which appears as if it's going to fall over any time soon, the neck-nacelles which appear like deformed shrunken arms and finally the back end of the ship which is too tall and juts out of the ship ruining the line of the sweeping wings. I've tried fixing the first two problem and the ship looks tens times sleeker but without the two extra nacelles it ain't really a B10 anymore.
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline ModelsPlease

  • Retired Model Junkie
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 4665
  • Gender: Male
  • ModelsPlease
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2004, 11:07:14 am »
This has been a refreshing thread on an old problem. Obviously there's no denying WZ in his usual undead way ahs smoked the model. But based on what everyone agrees about what makes the B10 the B10 I put a challange to the man I know could possibly make it happen....Azel all things being what they are with this ship could you redesign it,keeping all the attributes needed to make it a B10? SO that it's short comings are no longer an issue?
-MP

ModelsPlease, resident "Model Junkie" recovering from a tragic crayon sharpener accident.

Offline Azel

  • Captain
  • Read Only
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 896
  • Captain
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2004, 11:45:10 am »
This has been a refreshing thread on an old problem. Obviously there's no denying WZ in his usual undead way ahs smoked the model. But based on what everyone agrees about what makes the B10 the B10 I put a challange to the man I know could possibly make it happen....Azel all things being what they are with this ship could you redesign it,keeping all the attributes needed to make it a B10? SO that it's short comings are no longer an issue?
-MP
So You want me to make a TMP Klingon B10 If I where to totally redesign it but keep the major parts that make it a B10...
Such as:
-400 meters plus length
-4 nacelles(2 for the detachment, and 2 for the hull)
-compound bridge( I think I would lean towards 2 bridges...1 on the hull the other on its normal place)
-D-7 esq design philosophy
-and just plain mean
All Things End

Offline KBF-Crim

  • 1st Deacon ,Church of Taldren
  • Global Moderator
  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 12271
  • Gender: Male
  • Crim,son of Rus'l
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2004, 11:56:33 am »
This has been a refreshing thread on an old problem. Obviously there's no denying WZ in his usual undead way ahs smoked the model. But based on what everyone agrees about what makes the B10 the B10 I put a challange to the man I know could possibly make it happen....Azel all things being what they are with this ship could you redesign it,keeping all the attributes needed to make it a B10? SO that it's short comings are no longer an issue?
-MP
So You want me to make a TMP Klingon B10 If I where to totally redesign it but keep the major parts that make it a B10...
Such as:
-400 meters plus length
-4 nacelles(2 for the detachment, and 2 for the hull)
-compound bridge( I think I would lean towards 2 bridges...1 on the hull the other on its normal place)
-D-7 esq design philosophy
-and just plain mean

Hmmm...varients.....yes...we want more versions... ;)

Maybe a couple fighter bays   *grin*

Offline ModelsPlease

  • Retired Model Junkie
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 4665
  • Gender: Male
  • ModelsPlease
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2004, 01:58:01 pm »
This has been a refreshing thread on an old problem. Obviously there's no denying WZ in his usual undead way ahs smoked the model. But based on what everyone agrees about what makes the B10 the B10 I put a challange to the man I know could possibly make it happen....Azel all things being what they are with this ship could you redesign it,keeping all the attributes needed to make it a B10? SO that it's short comings are no longer an issue?
-MP
So You want me to make a TMP Klingon B10 If I where to totally redesign it but keep the major parts that make it a B10...
Such as:
-400 meters plus length
-4 nacelles(2 for the detachment, and 2 for the hull)
-compound bridge( I think I would lean towards 2 bridges...1 on the hull the other on its normal place)
-D-7 esq design philosophy
-and just plain mean

Yes sir ,that's pretty much it in a nutshell.
-MP

ModelsPlease, resident "Model Junkie" recovering from a tragic crayon sharpener accident.

Offline Grim Reaper

  • The 4th Horseman, the Lord of Death
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 577
  • Gender: Male
  • Beyond the apocalypse
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2004, 01:39:00 pm »
And i'm still hoping to get that accuser (which btw had a very long and troublous past in semi - canon also) you promised me Azel...
I never got more than a top view.

I don't know if you still want to create it / already have created but i'm still hoping...
Snickers@DND: If there is one straight answer in that bent little head of yours, you'd better start spillin' it pretty damn quick, or I'm gonna take a large, blunt object, roughly the size of Kallae AND his hat and shove it lengthwise up a crevice of your being so seldomly cleaned that even the denizens of the nine hells would not touch it with a 10-feet rusty pole

Offline Grim Reaper

  • The 4th Horseman, the Lord of Death
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 577
  • Gender: Male
  • Beyond the apocalypse
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #42 on: December 21, 2004, 02:01:36 pm »
And off course i forget to say great work to my fellow undead.

I really dig your work and textures. Though i prefer a darker green texture usually your textures rule imho.
However, the design itself doesn't appeal to me. I never liked those mini warp drives. Doesn't make the
design crap and certainly not the model. It just not my taste.

And another small q to Azel sneaked in:
That TNG K'T'Inga you designed... Has she been made? If not are there plans to make her?
Snickers@DND: If there is one straight answer in that bent little head of yours, you'd better start spillin' it pretty damn quick, or I'm gonna take a large, blunt object, roughly the size of Kallae AND his hat and shove it lengthwise up a crevice of your being so seldomly cleaned that even the denizens of the nine hells would not touch it with a 10-feet rusty pole

Offline Azel

  • Captain
  • Read Only
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 896
  • Captain
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #43 on: December 21, 2004, 02:23:14 pm »
And off course i forget to say great work to my fellow undead.

I really dig your work and textures. Though i prefer a darker green texture usually your textures rule imho.
However, the design itself doesn't appeal to me. I never liked those mini warp drives. Doesn't make the
design crap and certainly not the model. It just not my taste.

And another small q to Azel sneaked in:
That TNG K'T'Inga you designed... Has she been made? If not are there plans to make her?
Not to my knowledge...and no-one has tackled her as of yet
All Things End

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #44 on: December 21, 2004, 05:41:00 pm »
And off course i forget to say great work to my fellow undead.

I really dig your work and textures. Though i prefer a darker green texture usually your textures rule imho.
However, the design itself doesn't appeal to me. I never liked those mini warp drives. Doesn't make the
design crap and certainly not the model. It just not my taste.

And another small q to Azel sneaked in:
That TNG K'T'Inga you designed... Has she been made? If not are there plans to make her?

The little nacelles are actually full sized K'T'inga nacelles, it's actually the rear nacelles on the B10 that are scaled up, but I agree on a battleship they look really dinky.
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline QobnuH

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2004, 11:57:27 pm »
This is by far the best TMP battleship I have seen.A much more logical progression from D7 to C7 lineage and most certainly a more pleasing to the eye than those butt-ugly stock ones. Wz improved on the stock styles but they still  just never looked right to me. One thing on this one.... lose the forward D7 nacelles or at least  move them back off the neck and this thing will be awesome. I don't think Klingons would make a ship that separates,,,offends my sense of honor.

What's up with the link to DRS????  ? ?  ??????

Offline Grim Reaper

  • The 4th Horseman, the Lord of Death
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 577
  • Gender: Male
  • Beyond the apocalypse
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2004, 02:05:01 am »
What's up with the link to DRS????  ? ?  ??????

all say hail to nightsoft servers.
I get a q if i want to download a file
Snickers@DND: If there is one straight answer in that bent little head of yours, you'd better start spillin' it pretty damn quick, or I'm gonna take a large, blunt object, roughly the size of Kallae AND his hat and shove it lengthwise up a crevice of your being so seldomly cleaned that even the denizens of the nine hells would not touch it with a 10-feet rusty pole

Offline Rod ONeal

  • D.Net Beta Tester
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 3592
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2004, 07:32:25 pm »
Wicked Zombie,
Any chance of getting a "Romulanized" version of this, please? :notworthy:
If Romulans aren't cowards, then why do they taste like chicken?

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2004, 08:21:20 pm »
This is by far the best TMP battleship I have seen.A much more logical progression from D7 to C7 lineage and most certainly a more pleasing to the eye than those butt-ugly stock ones. Wz improved on the stock styles but they still  just never looked right to me. One thing on this one.... lose the forward D7 nacelles or at least  move them back off the neck and this thing will be awesome. I don't think Klingons would make a ship that separates,,,offends my sense of honor.

What's up with the link to DRS????  ? ?  ??????

This is an SFB ship, SFB Klingons are TOS Klingons, and TOS Klingons were completely without honour, they made all that honour crap up with TNG, infact they nicked it from a novel about the Romulans who were the really honourable TOS enemy.
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline Chris Johnson

  • I used to be a Captain a forum or two ago...
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 817
  • Gender: Male
  • Hai! Hai!
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2004, 12:44:58 pm »
I actually like the way ST: Next Gen described Klingons and Romulans... They were headed on that way after TOS anyhow once they had the bigger budgets in the movies, were they not?

"Oh, shut up!" -- Wil Wheaton to Wesley Crusher

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2004, 02:47:14 pm »
Not really, would you describe Kruge as an honourable Klingon? It was only in STVI that they were honourable and that was made after TNG anyway so it doesn't count. And the Romulans didn't appear in the movies until STVI either. Both races were reversed by the early episodes of TNG. Really I preffered it the old way round, Mark Lenard (?) was brilliant as the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror.
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline USS Mariner

  • Heavy Cruiser, NCC-1712
  • D.Net Beta Tester
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #51 on: December 23, 2004, 09:02:10 pm »
Not really, would you describe Kruge as an honourable Klingon? It was only in STVI that they were honourable and that was made after TNG anyway so it doesn't count. And the Romulans didn't appear in the movies until STVI either. Both races were reversed by the early episodes of TNG. Really I preffered it the old way round, Mark Lenard (?) was brilliant as the Romulan commander in Balance of Terror.

And your saying that Lursa, B'Tor, and the rest of the Duras family are "honourable?" Bullsh*t. What about those "Unification" Romulans, arne't they "honourable" for trying to find peace with their Vulcan brethren?

I really wish people would open their eyes and realize that any culture (on Earth or anyother) is NOT totally one or the other. It's a mix. There were scumbags in the TOS era (specifically seen in ENT but I'll get ganged on by rabid TOS'ers for that one ::),) yes, but there were also guys like Kahless and Kor, etc.

Quit using steryotypes dammit. I mean it's not as if they're all clones (though that could change for the Klingons when "Affliction" rolls around ::))
"Improve a mechanical device and you may double productivity. But improve man, you gain a thousandfold." - Khan

Steam: Mariner1712

Offline S33K100

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 382
  • Gender: Male
  • Brutal, savage, uncivilised, treacherous.
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #52 on: December 23, 2004, 09:18:26 pm »
In writing terms in Star Trek, yes they are all clones, aside from that one instance of about a dozen Romulans in Unification (they're not really honourable, just not anti-Federation) can you think of one canon instance of TNG or later Romulans acting honourably?
If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline Rogue

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 134
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2004, 10:33:00 pm »
This is a public service anouncement from the dead zone.

Nightsoft is up.

How long it will stay up is anyones guess.

I just downloaded Wicked Zombie's B10 and perhaps you might too.

And it was a merry Christmas after all.

Offline MajorRacal

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 492
  • Gender: Male
    • MajorRacal's Micro Shipyards
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #54 on: December 24, 2004, 07:33:12 am »
Perhaps you could could consider the TNG Roms in Face of the Enemy... or pehaps the duped Rom in The Defector - some very honorable intentions lay behind a lot of what was going on there.

Offline Klingon Fanatic

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2070
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #55 on: December 24, 2004, 08:53:50 am »
This is a public service anouncement from the dead zone.

Nightsoft is up.

How long it will stay up is anyones guess.

I just downloaded Wicked Zombie's B10 and perhaps you might too.

And it was a merry Christmas after all.

I've been stuck at the first page of DRS for over ten minutes and STILL haven't been able to d/l her yet... I don't usually have a problem d/l anything from DRS either.

KF
HoD Radjekk Vor Thruum
IKV Kraag Dorr
SuvwI' Qeh KCC
Commander, Task Force Kraag Dorr's Teeth First Strike Squadron

Offline E_Look

  • Grand High Scribe
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6446
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2004, 01:45:01 am »
Hey, it works now (2:30 AM Christmas morning EST)!

If not, PM me and maybe I can send it to you.

Offline Klingon Fanatic

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2070
  • Gender: Male
Re: A Klingon Khristmas
« Reply #57 on: December 26, 2004, 07:33:13 am »
As of 8:18AM 12/26/04 DRS is up!

I finally got the Bloodstalker. ;D

KF

HoD Radjekk Vor Thruum
IKV Kraag Dorr
SuvwI' Qeh KCC
Commander, Task Force Kraag Dorr's Teeth First Strike Squadron