Topic: ROTK-EE

[RazalYllib]

It was waiting for me when I got home from work.

The Minas Tirith sculpture is about the 6th or 7th coolest thing in the entire universe, as for the restored footage, MUST HAVE MORE!!!!

PJ is forgiven for all changes to the underlying story line save one:

Denethor is crazed out a little more, however, I feel the exclusion of the Palantir as source of the madness to be one change that could have been written in...though it is only a venial sin.

All Hail PJ and Co..they done good!

[Hstaphath_XC]

I'm so jealous I could cry.  I have to wait until Christmas so I can get it as a "gift" from my wife.

Where the heck is that "smilie banging his head into a wall" icon when you need it...

[The_Joker]

Same here, Hsta....same here.   

[Harlax]

It was waiting for me when I got home from work.

The Minas Tirith sculpture is about the 6th or 7th coolest thing in the entire universe, as for the restored footage, MUST HAVE MORE!!!!

PJ is forgiven for all changes to the underlying story line save one:

Denethor is crazed out a little more, however, I feel the exclusion of the Palantir as source of the madness to be one change that could have been written in...though it is only a venial sin.

All Hail PJ and Co..they done good!

I watched it today and enjoyed it.

But I haven't entirely forgiven PJ...

Agree with the earlier point about Denethor and the Palantir.

The scene "Aragorn masters the Palantir" did not exactly show him mastering the Palantir.

The Voice of Saruman scene was well done and if you have to leave out scouring the shire, it concluded the Saruman story arc well.  Of couse that's a big IF...

Anduril showing up two movies late to support PJ's "Aragorn as Hamlet" invention.

The Grey Company failing to show up. 

Aragorn unsure if the Dead were following him as left the Path's of the Dead.  And what was up with that avalanche of skulls?

The whole bit with Frodo sending Sam away.  Totally unneccesary and bizarre invention.

I did not like the confrontation of Gandalf with the Lord of the Nazgul.  Wrong place, wrong feel, wrong outcome.  Gandalf is not "saved by the bell" in the book.

Mouth of Sauron saying Frodo was dead.  In the book, the Mouth tells them Frodo is captured and attempts to bargain for his release.  PJ's version is less powerful by a fair margin.  As usual.

Mouth of Sauron decapitation.  Unneccessary change.  Gratuitous action film cliche. 

The casual viewer will not understand by the Frodo's ending voice over that Sam will one day take ship to the West as he too was, however briefly, a ring bearer. 

Frodo gets another "cliff hanger" scene in Mt. Doom.  Wrong and a gratuitous action film cliche.


On the plus side:

Frodo and Sam in Orc gear.  Nice.

Voice of Saruman.  Nice, could have shown Theoden's struggle to resist better.  (In the words of "Goodgulf Greyteeth" from Bored of the Rings - "That knave is slippery as a catfish in a jar of vaseline.")

The Pelennor Fields was visually awesome.  The charge of the Rohirrim was stunning.


And in case you missed it amonst the grousing.  I watched it and enjoyed it.



Oh yes, the minature of Minas Tirith was amazing.

[RazalYllib]

As someone who has adapted JRRT work (my Rock Opera-"Of Beren and Luthian")

I understand what it is to take a narrative in one medium-text, and relay the same narrative useing an entirely different medium, theator.  It that sense, unless you have done it, you cannot know, subjectively, what it really means to "adapt" another's work...

It is both mind numbingly painful and euphoric in the same moment.  Knowing that every decision you make, creatively, will be judged by those outside the process.  You can only hope, that you capture enough to communicate to your audience, the essence of the original authors intent in delivering the narrative.

All the above, problems, I can forgive...thats just me of course.  But the exclusion of the Anor-stone as a root cause of Denethor's madness could have been inserted in the film in some fashion.  This is my only serious critique of PJ's (and Fran and Phillipe's) decisions to adjust the original narrative to "fit" the demands of the differing medium.

BTW, I must state, as I often do when I post RE: Of Beren and Luthian, I will not post the libretto, wav, or video, I dodged the copyright infringement Alpha Strike once, and will not risk it again, HOWEVER, if you just happen to be passing through my neck of the woods.....what I do in the privacy of my own home, is of no concern to the Tolkien Estate, if you aquires my drift...

[Dash Jones]

I think the movies are probably classic, and I bought the ee versions of all of them...however it still bothers me that Tolkein's morality story made for his children...and from a man that didn't seem to really prefer the violence shown, that his books for his children, and for children (it started with the hobbit, and continued as those who wanted more for the hobbits, to come out) would be twisted to the point that those who are under 12 are not suggested to watch it.

I think it also had enough unnecessary deviations from the books to make it merely a new story based off the Lord of the Rings, but not the trilogy itself...and as such, wasn't really admired by the Tolkeins at large, though a minority may have enjoyed it.

I think the movies themselves are masterpieces...but I think PJ was much too influenced by his past as a horror director to make something that at least captured the mood of the original more aptly.

And then of course are all those who read the books as adults (I read it at a young age sooooo) who want to see it as an adult film because they can't imagine that children would be able to read any such things, or that there was a time that such things were listed in the children's category of books.

It would be interesting to see PJ make the Prydain chronicles...I imagine with a legion of the dead that cannot be killed, the livid and corrupted usages of magic, and other items would make his version of the movie PG-13 or R rated as well.

Not that the movies wouldn't be well done...just slightly missing the spirit of the originals.  On the otherhand they would entirely fit the spirit of the generation of adults that imagine the books AS adults...instead of how the youth may have imagined them in the spirit of fantasy and delight.

It's the problem with society.  PJ made it into a dark fantasy, where the originals were a light fantasy on the triumph of light over darkness.  In PJ's version it's more of the Dark but good guys, who defeat the even more ugly and darker bad guys with much blood, guts, and gore!  Action and violence take precedence over the ideas of morality and goodness.

Hence my problems with the movies...but I do enjoy them for what they are.  They are good fantasy, perhaps the best made recently.  They definately have better special effects than any recently.  I also found the elf surfing an elephant and the men under the mountain who act as army ants hilarious...though few seem to see the humor.  Tolkein is probably rolling in his grave, and would be horrified to see that portrayal...but then again, I suppose it's his editors that finally get the last laugh.  Of course Tolkein wanted the texts that would eventually make the Silmarillion and other items printed instead...it was the editors who wanted more hobbits, made several decisions in relation to the LotR, and were also some who wanted it in 3 volumes instead of one.

So if not Tolkiens, it was the publishers, the editors, and the book promoters, as well as some of the ADULT fans that win out in the end.  Which is more apt and more moving, I don't know.  But the movies are fun to watch, if you can ignore the descrepancies between them and the trilogies.  In fact, I'd say they were brilliant.

[jualdeaux]

The major problem that I had is in the fact that the minor differences they introduced in the first movie created a rippling effect that made them change things in the latter two. For example Arwen. The introduced her inthe irst as a more imporant role than she was supposed to have. That made them change the story for the rest just to keep her character going. If they would have kept her as the peripheral she was supposed to be, there would have been way fewer differences.

[Harlax]

The major problem that I had is in the fact that the minor differences they introduced in the first movie created a rippling effect that made them change things in the latter two. For example Arwen. The introduced her inthe irst as a more imporant role than she was supposed to have. That made them change the story for the rest just to keep her character going. If they would have kept her as the peripheral she was supposed to be, there would have been way fewer differences.

(cough) Ripples?  (Cough)  In The Two Towers? (choke) More like a tidal wave at that point I'd say.

That was just PJ thinking he knew better.  I went to see ROTK with a sense of foreboding based on the mockery he made of the Ents, Faramir (one of my favorite characters) and Helm's Deep (Elves?  The defenders of Helms Deep unable to hold a spear straight?).  Did I mention the "Aragorn still doing a Hamlet" theme?

I can take ommissions and condensations, those were simply required.  Wholesale changes to "improve" the story?  That I can't take.

And yes, I bought the extended version of TTT. 

[S'Raek]

I haven't picked up ROTK:  EE yet, it isn't out over here yet.  I am looking forward to seeing the additional footage.  In the past it has made the movies better.  But while I have enjoyed all three of the movies (well, I was actually kind of upset when I walked out of the theatre after TTT) I have also been rather disappointed at the needless changes made to the story that has affected all of them.  Like others have said, I can understand condensing some of the story and leaving things out all together (Tom Bombadil and the Scouring of the Shire for example).  What I don't understand is why some major story points were added or changed to no apparent purpose other than to make the story the way Jackson wanted it to be.  And with something like the LOTR's that isn't something that I think should be done.

[jualdeaux]

Look what has happened to Tom Clancy's novels. The first movie made, The Hunt for Red October, was done fairly well. The rest have been trash that was barely recognizable. All of his books, at least as fas as I knew, have been major bestsellers. Unfortunately, the directors, writers and actors all want to change things to suit themselves. Same thing for the LOTR series.

Can you tell that this is one of my pet peeves for movies.

[S'Raek]

Yes!