Topic: rule clarification

[TraumaTech]

in advanced era games......are we allowed to take a non x ship command varient with 2 lite cruiser x ships or option "A' or"B" heavy cruiser x ship with 2 non x ships or full x ship squadran????

[Corbomite]

If I understand your question, then no. The rule states:


1st Gen X Ships:  Teams can deploy 1st Gen X-ships in two ways.  Option A ? A single Heavy Cruiser Hull X ship can be used as a Command Variant.  These ships are listed with the Command Variants on the Matrix.  All other ships must be non-X.  Option B ? All Ships in the formation must be X ships.  These formations are still limited to single Heavy Cruiser X-hull.  1st Gen X ships for each Race are listed on the Matrix.



As I read it you are stuck with having the Command Variant taken by the X ship of Heavy Cruiser size if you take a Command Varant at all. Since it states that a Heavy Cruiser Hull X ship can[/i] be used, but not must[/i] be used, I see the following options open:


Option A -

1) One X Heavy Cruiser and any two non-X-Ships that are not Command Variants or otherwise restricted ships within the PBR parameters.

2) One X-Ship (non-Command Variant) and any two non-X-Ships that are not Command Variants or otherwise restricted ships within the PBR parameters.

3) Two X-Ships (non-Command Variants) and any non-X-Ship that is not a Command Variant or otherwise restricted ship within the PBR parameters.

(Number 3 is definitly open for debate as the rule plainly states that in option A " All other ships must be non-X" which implies that only one X-Ship may be taken in this option, Command Variant or not.)


Option B -

1) One X Heavy Cruiser and any two non-Heavy Cruiser X-Ships.

2) Three non-Heavy Cruiser X-Ships.

[Mutilator]

I think our question is based more on era. Rules as applied for late era matches are fine. Our belief is that 1st Gen Xships in late have more restrictions as they were just coming on line. However in Adv era x-ships would have been more common and most likely would have been mixed in conventional navies and easily would have been commanded by a non X command ship like a Dred or BC.

[Nomad]

I disagree with option A #2 and #3

Rule states that "A single Heavy Cruiser Hull X ship can be used as a Command Variant." and "All other ships must be non-X".

Option 2: violates rule because 1 X-ship is not Heavy Cruiser. Cannot use any other X-ships because all other ships must be non X-ships.

Option 3: Violates rule because 1 X-ship is not Heavy Cruiser and all other ships must be non-X.

[KHH Jakle]

Advanced era in PBR is essentially the LATE General War years, when X-ships first came on line (when it was just Modified CA's with X tech added) and extends (theoretically) far enough into the future to include the fielding of CLX's, DDX'X and FFX's and the first X-squadrons, which I believe occured right about the end of the war and continued to develop prior to the Andromodan Invasion.

Both options are very simple.

Option A: you can have a single X-Heavy Cruiser (which counts as a Command Variant and is listed as such) and the 2 other ships can be non-Xships.  Those other 2 ships most also conform to normal PBR rules concerning Support Ships, ect.

This option emulates the typical use of the early X-cruisers as well as the one philosophy of the use of X-tech, which was to use X-CA's in place of DN's in otherwise normal tech squadrons/fleets

Option B: every ship in the force has to be and x ship, but it can be any combination with normal PBR rules applying.  This would allow a single X-CA (which automatically fills the Command slot) and 2 smaller x hulls or it could be all x hulls, allowing an FFX or DDX squadron.

This option simulates the OTHER philosophy and the later development of x-tech deployment, which was for squadrons or small fleets made up solely of X ships, in order to allow their greater mobility and full potential of their tech to be brought to bear.

Again, late era: can't use the Late era X ships.
Adavanced era: can use the late era x ships, can't use the Advanced era ships.

Option B:

[KHH Jakle]

To use Corbo's examples to reference:

Option A -

1) One X Heavy Cruiser and any two non-X-Ships that are not Command Variants or otherwise restricted ships within the PBR parameters. YES

2) One X-Ship (non-Command Variant) and any two non-X-Ships that are not Command Variants or otherwise restricted ships within the PBR parameters. NO

3) Two X-Ships (non-Command Variants) and any non-X-Ship that is not a Command Variant or otherwise restricted ship within the PBR parameters. NO

(Number 3 is definitly open for debate as the rule plainly states that in option A " All other ships must be non-X" which implies that only one X-Ship may be taken in this option, Command Variant or not.)


Option B -

1) One X Heavy Cruiser and any two non-Heavy Cruiser X-Ships. YES

2) Three non-Heavy Cruiser X-Ships. YES (some X-ships do fit the Combat Support role, and another is both Command and Combat support - those rules need to be factored in as well)

[Kroma BaSyl]

Advanced era in PBR is essentially the LATE General War years, when X-ships first came on line (when it was just Modified CA's with X tech added) and extends (theoretically) far enough into the future to include the fielding of CLX's, DDX'X and FFX's and the first X-squadrons, which I believe occured right about the end of the war and continued to develop prior to the Andromodan Invasion.

Both options are very simple.

Option A: you can have a single X-Heavy Cruiser (which counts as a Command Variant and is listed as such) and the 2 other ships can be non-Xships.  Those other 2 ships most also conform to normal PBR rules concerning Support Ships, ect.

This option emulates the typical use of the early X-cruisers as well as the one philosophy of the use of X-tech, which was to use X-CA's in place of DN's in otherwise normal tech squadrons/fleets

Option B: every ship in the force has to be and x ship, but it can be any combination with normal PBR rules applying.  This would allow a single X-CA (which automatically fills the Command slot) and 2 smaller x hulls or it could be all x hulls, allowing an FFX or DDX squadron.

This option simulates the OTHER philosophy and the later development of x-tech deployment, which was for squadrons or small fleets made up solely of X ships, in order to allow their greater mobility and full potential of their tech to be brought to bear.

Again, late era: can't use the Late era X ships.
Adavanced era: can use the late era x ships, can't use the Advanced era ships.

Option B:

This was how I always interpreted the rule.

[Corbomite]

The difference between "can" and "must" is the confusion here I think. "Can" implies a choice you are telling us we don't have. The rule states we can take an X Heavy as a Command Variant not that we have to to get a one or two X Ship fleet together so I see where Trauma Tech's question is coming from.

[KHH Jakle]

There is a choice:  You either can take one or you must take all.

That was my thinking on it when I wrote it, and that crept into the wording.  Considering the description of option A, it takes a leap to get the two other options you pulled as being leagal from my description, IMHO.

But I am since it can obvioulsy be interpreted in a way other than it is intended, I'll amend it at some point.

[Corbomite]

I never interpreted it to mean other than what you have laid out, but when he asked the question I read the rule more carefully and saw that it could be ambiguous so I stretched it as far as it would go.