The root of the thread is who would win, Enterprise-D or Voyager. Since Star Trek is riddled with anomolies and temporal mumbo-jumbo, it is theoretically possible, therefore, that the future Ent-D seen in TNG:"
All Good Things..." could be used to fight against the Warship Voyager as seen in VOY:"
Living Witness". This would result in a confronation using:
In this alternate future, the Enterprise had undergone several significant modifications, including the addition of a third nacelle, a cloaking device, and a powerful phaser mounted underneath the saucer section. She single-handedly destroyed one Klingon battleship with 8 shots from this phaser. The first hit and two others went straight through both the enemy shields and hull, forcing another to retreat while rescuing the USS Pasteur crew, following Picard's attempt to find the anomaly.
This ship would include all available upgrades to a ship of ~2395, retain similar crew levels to the base Galaxy class (~1014) and still be, as stated earlier, a whale.
vs.
The starship featured:
■ 300 soldiers, including those assimilated from Delta Quadrant species
■ A triple-armored hull
■ 30 torpedo tubes
■ 25 phaser banks
■ Assault probes and fighter-shuttles
■ A complement of Borg warrior-drones
■ An Emergency Medical Android
Despite the large increase in crew and weapons, this vessel would still retain the one major advantage that the Intrepid class has over the Galaxy class - maneuverability.
I only see two outcomes from the battle between the two vessels above: a marginal victory as the Warship Voyager destroys the Enterprise after a long and bloody engagement which forces the abandonment of the Warship Voyager, or the Warship Voyager's on-board Borg assimilate the Enterprise, leading to a merger of both ships and the Warship Voaygerprise-D continues home, destroying random innocent civilizations at warp 13.975.
However, we need to look at this from a more practical Apples to Apples point of view. We can't assume the standard "random anomaly/time travel" line. We could play the "alternate reality" card - assume that Voyager was taken over by the Maquis and used the Caretaker to return home before the Enterprise was destroyed. However, we will not go with the standard Trek faire of imaginary posibilities. We will assume that Voyager and Enterprise-D meet in a wargames exercise similar to the Hathaway and Enterprise-D in TNG:"
Peak Performance", following the launch of Voayger (Stardate 48038.5) and before her "loss" (Stardate 48315.6). Such an encounter would probably occur as part of the Enterprise-Ds
Generations refits (occured in early 2371 - around the time of Voyager's launch and at the probable time of her shakedown cruise). This would be the most likely time of interaction between the two vessels in a "real" way.
My assumption here is that the encounter would be with Enterprise-D post-refit, a viable and logical test of both ships, systems and crews before they left Sol system for the cold embrace of deep space. However, there is little evidence of when the refit occured, just that it happend in 2371 - the same year that the Dominion was becoming a threat, thus, it could be seen as a partial Dominion War refit that was applied to the rest of the Galaxy class ships. Then again, it could have just been a planned upgrade. For the purposes of the V vs. E-D encounter, the refit won't be considered to have an impact in the overall results, and therefore can be considered to have not happened, and that the encounter is two ships that happen to be available shooting lasers at each other with their computers assessing the "damage".
Now, since we know that the encounter could only have occured before Stardate 48315.6, Voyager's crew does not have Harry Kim, Tom Paris or any Maquis, Borg, Talaxian or Ocompan crew members, and her doctor isn't a hologram (Note: we can assume that the Ent-D may have recieved an EMH somewhere around this time, but since neither ship should need to use an EMH in the "battle", both EMHs can be considered as "not used" or "not installed" as appropriate). We also know that Wes Crusher would not be available in the "battle" since he went off to explore the galaxy. For the sake of crew vs. crew, we'd have generic helmsman vs. generic helmsman (stalemate), and (at least 7 years as a) Doctor vs. (unkown experience as a) Doctor. Voyager's doctor seemed like a total dork and was a bit cocky. He might have been good, but we have no real basis to judge his abilities. In the end, though, Crusher would get the win as Doctor - She's going to see, treat, and save more simulated injuries than Voyager's Doctor. Add to this the simple fact that at this point in her career, Crusher is near-legendary, if not in fact Legendary, while Voyager's Doctor is one step above generic helmsman. Heck, I'll even take Tom Paris as a medical technician over Voyager's original flesh and blood doctor any day.
We need to look into that legendary thing a bit - Its year 8 of Enterprise-D's life, most of her bridge crew is indeed near legendary, if not in fact Legendary. This would put the Enterprise-D's crew at a slight advantage to that of Voyager, at least in the positions of First Officer, Chief Engineer, Operations Officer, and Tactical/Security Officer. The first three of those are definately filled by generic officers on Voyager - so generic in fact that they are not mentioned again in her entire 7 year TV series. The Tactical/Security Officer position may be filled by Tuvok - I did not find a stardate for his transfer to the Val Jean, so we can assume that the entire "battle" would be based in part on the skills of Tuvok and Worf (at tactical). So, except for the captain and tactical officer, Enterprise-Ds crew would be the superior crew, hands down.
As to the Tactical Officers, Tuvok and Worf, we have an issue. Tuvok actually has the edge in experience here, however, Worf has the free-thinking-ness and outside-the-box abilities. Tuvok is cold, logical and precise. Worf is warrior-spirit driven, intuitive and precise. This might actually be the only close call between the two ships and crews. However, i'm going to lean towards Worf on this one, with Tuvok being only a point or two behind.
Now to the captains. Picard is Legendary (there is, after all, the Picard Maneuver - there is no Janeway Maneuver). Janeway is not - yet. Picard has seen combat on countless occasions with this ship and its crew and knows what it can and can't do. Janeway only knows a handful of her crew and Voyager is largely untested. Janeway does have an ace in her pocket though - she should know at least as much as Picard when it comes to Intrepid class star ships - a slight advantage, but an advantage none-the-less. All the comparisons here won't matter though - Picard vs. Janeway in 2371? Game, set, match to Picard (Jump to 2379 or so when its Captain Picard and Admiral Janeway - there's a reason she's an Admiral and he's a Captain... Its where they belong, where they can do what they are best at (Reference here is Kirk's demotion at the end of ST:IV and Kirk's "Don't let them promote you" speech in
Generations)
If the comparison of crew to crew were to occur in some kind of parallel universe (such as the first encounter WAY at the top of this post) and would be something akin to 7 years later but not quite yet home Voyager vs. 2371 Enterprise-D, my choices would be:
Picard vs. Janeway - Picard
Riker vs. Chakotay - Chakotay
Data vs. Kim - Data
Worf vs. Tuvok - Tuvok (again, one of those close ones, Worf behind by only a little bit)
Crusher vs. EMH - Crusher
Troi vs. EMH - Troi should not be considered as Voyager really does not have a dedicated counselor (arguably, the EMH could perform that function; however, he is not dedicated to that role). Its not a fair comparison.
LaForge vs. Torres - LaForge
generic helmsman vs. Paris - Paris (unless its Paris vs. that one hot blonde helmswoman on the E-D...
)
Guinan vs. Neelix - Guinan. Neelix (to me, anyway) is to Star Trek as Jar Jar is to Star Wars and Lt. Keffer is to Babylon 5 - a character that didn't need to even exist. Guinan, however, is a bartender. Ten-forward is a bar. Bars need bartenders. 'Nuff said.
generic science officer vs. Seven of Nine - Seven
Ok, so lets look at the ships now, since I think I more or less covered the crew (where Enterprise-D's crew wins, more or less, hands down when compared to Voyager's crew; both in 2371).
Like many Federation starships of its time, Voyager was armed with phasers and photon torpedoes and protected by a deflector shield system. The vessels torpedo launchers were compatable with quantum torpedoes as well, with some modification. Additionally, Voyager carried spatial charges and tricobalt devices, the latter of which were not normally carried on Starfleet vessels at the time. (VOY: "Caretaker", "Dreadnought", "Relativity", "The Voyager Conspiracy")
The armaments of the Enterprise-D included twelve phaser arrays, two torpedo launchers, a supply of 250 photon torpedoes and hundreds of antimatter mines. The ship was protected by a high-capacity shield grid that could operate on multiple frequencies. When the ship was destroyed in 2371, the shield frequency was of 257.4 MHz. (TNG: "Conundrum", "Chain of Command, Part II", Star Trek Generations)
Although "Conundrum" establishes that the Enterprise had ten phaser banks, a visual inspection of the filming model clearly shows twelve arrays. The Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual also supports this higher figure. In addition, visual effects in "Darmok" and "The Best of Both Worlds" have depicted phaser fire coming from the forward torpedo launcher and the nacelle pylons.
In extreme cases, the saucer could separate and serve tactically as a second attack vessel utilizing the large phaser arrays located on its hull. The engineering section also had phaser banks but more often utilized its fore and aft torpedo tubes as its main weapon system. (TNG: "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II") This tactical method of attack utilizing ship separation was further developed for the Prometheus-class starships. (VOY: "Message in a Bottle")
Neither of those really help us here as Voyager's exact load out isn't mentioned. Neither is Enterprise-D's third torpedo launcher. So we have to look to other known "facts" about the two ships.
Based on her encounters with the Hathaway and birds-of-prey (not just in
Generations, mind you), the Enterprise-D seems to have issues with smaller and faster ships (which just happens to be Voyager's
ONLY real advantage (read below)) against Enterprise). Enterprise can handle them, just has issues. We have to assume that the torpedoes and phasers are of the same type as those on Voyager, or very very close to the same (e.g. one generation behind, type 6 mod As instead of type 7s, etc.). Enterprise's main advantage is her sweeping arcs with the phasers and her massive hull - she can't turn and hit the target, but does not need to; and as long as LaForge can keep the starboard power coupling and the phase inducers on line, the "whale" can take a beating. Enterprise's superior crew is going to be a huge factor.
Voyager, on the other hand, has speed and size on her side. It doesn't really happen until she's in the Delta Quadrant, but she routinly encounters and wins versus larger and slower vessels. Voyager suffers against smaller and faster vessels, just as Enterprise does, but that would not be an issue here, even if the Enterprise separated the saucer. Voyager will have issues against Enterprise's weapons when they connect, and Enterprise does hold the advantage in torpedoes - Enterprise carries 250 and can launch at least 10 from her fore and aft launchers at a time while Voyager is limited to around 40 and single launches per launcher; Voyager does, however, have 2 each fore and aft. Voyager's crew's inexperience will be a key factor (Voyager of 2378 just before "
End Game" would actually have the superior stance vs. Enterprise-D of 2371, in crew, weapons and ability, but I digest) as obvious avenues of exploitation may not be taken due to that lack of experience.
The "battle" would go to Enterprise, but that does not mean its an easy win. To reduce the advantage Voyager's size gives her, Enterprise would most likely either focus fire on Voyager's engines or separate the saucer, or both. Voyager being a harder target to hit already, wouldn't take much focused damage except from lucky hits. 2378 Voyager would take advantage of the separate sections by destroying the impulse engines of the saucer (using most if not all of her torpedoes to do so) and drawing the star drive section out of weapons range of the saucer, effectively reducing Enterprise's weapons capacity. In 2371 however, Voyager would most likely focus fire on Enterprise's weapons arrays first, a rookie mistake.
In any event, the 2371 battle would end when Voyager got close enough to be caught and anchored in Enterprise's tractor and exposed to a couple of volleys of 10+ torpedoes. It will just take a little while for the two ships to get close enough. Don't get me wrong here, Enterprise would be severly damaged, but would be salvagable; while Voyager would be lost. Her size and speed were not exploited due to her crew's inexperience.
For the sake of arguement, the 2378 Voyager vs the 2371 Enterprise-D would fair much better, and in fact would not be caught and anchored to death. She would, however, suffer extreme damage and would probably be just as bad off as Enterprise, this battle would end in a stalemate; with a weapon- and shield-less Voyager running circles (on thrusters) around a weapon-, shield- and engine-less Enterprise section or two. The final salvo would be tricobalt device vs 10+ torpedoes with a simultaneous detonation, leaving both ships in this condition.
------
Now, someone somewhere in this posting mentioned Kirk. Kirk and the original Enterprise cannot even be compared to Janeway and Voyager. Why? Kirk >>> Janeway.
---Kirk would have destroyed the array AND got his crew home. So we have to pretend that he didn't.
---Kirk would, just for fun, return to the Delta Quadrant at warp 15 and eliminate the Kazon as a threat to the region. Then return home. Again, though, we have to assume he took a similar course as Janeway.
---Kirk would have integrated the Maquis into his crew, just as Janeway did. The difference here would be that even though Seska would still think it was Chakotay's baby, it would, in fact, be Kirk's (not Sulla's or Chakotay's). He wouldn't ever know, however, as he would have destroyed the Kazon ship she transported to (when she was revealed as the bad girl she was) just after she got there.
---Kirk would have stayed at least another day with Amelia Earheart on the planet with the 37s... For research...
---Kirk, Bones, Scotty and Spock would somehow jurry-rig a shuttle craft's dilithium crystals to fuse the space time continuum to cure the Phage.
---Kirk's Captain's Assistant would be Naomi Kirk, not Naomi Wildman. Ensign Wildman would have some explaining to do when she got home to her husband...
---Kirk would have destroyed the Borg by seducing the Borg Queen and infecting her with an STD from an extinct species (its harmless to humans, but instantly fatal to Borg. One of the 37s might have given it to him...) and still saved Seven of Nine... For research... Note that this may be why the Borg were never mentioned in TOS. Come to think of it, Kirk might have ended the Dominion War in a similar fashion ("Bones will give you the cure if you surrender, Female Changeling..."). And species 8472 for that matter - it would have had to wait until he found their earth-like biosphere, however...
---Because Kirk does value life, he would have ordered his red-shirt wearing crew to don blue or gold uniforms for the duration of the journey home, thus not losing a single crewmember.
---Kirk's "Year of Hell" would have lasted about an hour, he and his crew would have found the Krenim Time ship thingie and dealt with it, without destroying it, but still restoring the timeline
---Kirk would have had twice the temporal infractions as Janeway, but would not have had an angry 29th century time traveling Captain try to destroy the Enterprise over it.
---Kirk would have taken one for the galaxy and the Q baby would have been his. It may or may not have been with the female Q, however.
---Kirk would have hunted the Hirogen.
---Kirk would have bluffed his way through the Devore conduits and never woke the Vaadwuar up.
---Frendhip I was blamed for the destruction of the Uxali, by the Uxali. Kirk and crew would have slingshotted back in time to just before the probe reached the planet and recovered it.
Think that that is all I have.
Cheers,
The Czar
Topic: Voyager vs. Enterprise D (Read 36305 times)