Topic: Voyager vs. Enterprise D

[14G_Tiger]

cant compare those two...different rule sets for each..no prime directive, etc.

[Commander Maxillius]

true, however, think of an instance where Archer would "forget" the Prime Directive ever existed, just like he all but said "screw the Temporal Prime Directive"


Archer's more exciting, but he'd never be given a ship in the later series

[14G_Tiger]

i would second the 'screw the TPD'...it was formed in future why should it effect me?

[SilentUnion05]

Considering Voyager has integrated borg sheilding along with armour plating, technology from the future (adrimal janeway's tech/weapons), it is a slightly faster vessel, much smaller and more agile then the large galaxy class vessel enterprise. Also it has been equiped with tri-cobalt torpedoes. Also the torpedoes janeway brought would reak havoc on the enterprise' sheilds. Plus voyager has the delta flyer.. an auxilary ship to help when needed..

[knightstorm]

Why are you guys necroing this thread after 7 years?

[Age]

Who would win out of Janeway and Picard?? Well, Kirk of course... 

Most Definetly.

I would say Voyager as it is more manuoverable and being science ship can fly ring around the Enterprise D.

I don't like necroing either but since some one did.

[Vipre]

Minds lost is a sad thing to see.

Two views...

Intrepid/Voyager Ep 1 v. Galaxy/Ent D same stardate = Galaxy hands down. As with the Defiant it's a "tough little ship" but get a grip all, in a heads up fight it's KO'd before half the D's torp stock is fired.

Voyager Final Ep vs. Ent D in Generations, I think Voyager due to Janeway's temporal tampering and Seven's borg boosts over the series run. Recall that the D was lost same year Voyager was in the badlands, very shortly after, so there'd be no new shields or weapon systems which other ships might've gotten during the "Voyager years".

Voyager crew v. Enterprise crew that I'd give the edge to Voyager due to the Maquis members likelihood to think "outside the box" versus all the Ent crew in my mind being more likely to stick to the Starfleet "playbook".

[Age]

I was following the Excalibur project and I do check it out once in awhile.

@Vipre don't forget that the D uses isolinear chips and Voyager doesn't it us bioneral packs which is probably faster.The Defiant can kick the D rear with it cannons q torps.

[Vipre]

The Defiant can kick the D rear with it cannons q torps.

Need to check under your bed for a plasma coolant leak...or maybe just carbon monoxide.  The Defiant would be in the same boat it was in vs the Cube in FC, adrift awaiting salvage.

[Lieutenant_Q]

It's real simple... The Galaxy Class is a Dreadnought, the Intrepid is a Light Cruiser.  The Galaxy may be a slow, ponderous whale, but it has more than enough stamina and firepower to outlast an Intrepid.  If it were an obstacle course or a race, I'd take the Intrepid every time.  But for straight up, who's gonna kick who's ass?  Galaxy.

As for what ship I'd rather take... The Intrepid.  I hate slow, ponderous whales.  I think a crew of 1000 is too much.  I'd like to at least know the name of every crewman on my ship, and be able to say good morning to each of them without having to stop and think hard about the name of the Ensign that just passed me in the corridor.

[Vipre]

But that's what I'm saying, if we are counting Voaygers enhancements after the seven season, Borg and Etc... Can't we assume all Galaxy's would get bionueral circuitry upgrades, quantums, shields, and etc...

Adam

We can assume "all Galaxy's would" but not the Enterprise because it was destroyed beginning of season 1. On equal ground Voyager's toast, it's only the seven year gap plus unique enhancements that give it any shot.

[knightstorm]

Well, Since this thread seems to be alive now, I guess I'll add my two cents.  Voyager is the functional equivalent of a light cruiser.  I remember seeing one of the pre-launch interviews where it was described as being able to go places a larger starship couldn't, such as navigating the badlands.  That said the Galaxy class fills that much needed niche of a dreadnought/cruise ship.  In terms of combat power, the Enterprise was considered the equivalent of a D'deridex class warbird, but Tuvok seemed to believe that the most prudent course of action for Voyager to take when confronted with such a threat was to retreat.

But that's what I'm saying, if we are counting Voaygers enhancements after the seven season, Borg and Etc... Can't we assume all Galaxy's would get bionueral circuitry upgrades, quantums, shields, and etc...

Adam

We can assume "all Galaxy's would" but not the Enterprise because it was destroyed beginning of season 1. On equal ground Voyager's toast, it's only the seven year gap plus unique enhancements that give it any shot.

I doubt the bio-neural circuitry would have given Voyager a great combat advantage.  That said, If we're counting the End Game enhancements on Voyager, we have to give the D the same enhancements that dominion war era galaxies would receive.  Also, since the Enterprise E didn't have any of the End Game enhancements in Nemesis, it could be assumed that those Starfleet dogooders chose to shelve the enhancements to prevent further corruption to the timeline, and that the enhancements were probably removed from Voyager.  I do think Voyager has a chance of taking out the D's petting zoo though.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

The Enterprise D is a good medium dreadnought but it lacks good heavy hitting weapons on its Star/Port sides and is mainly designed as a forward hitting hold the line dread while taking lots of damage overall, negating MVAM. Voyager easily would have the ability to squeeze past the for/rear weapons and get into that safer zone, and be able to do some serious damage, especially if it unloaded all of its photon torpedos and phaser bank discharges while waiting for the Enterprise to finish turning around to face them.. in which case Voyager wins.

With MVAM, it would actually be a pretty fair fight.. the saucer section holds minimal phasers compared to the battle section, and the battle section would be able to bring its full weapons on Voyager much sooner, in which case, def Enterprise D would win just with shear weapons and power compared to Voyager.

Bring in the Voyager new tech though and Voyager wins vs everything starfleet has to offer.. Transphasic torpedos dont just apply to borg shielding weaknesses.

I doubt the bio-neural circuitry would have given Voyager a great combat advantage.  That said, If we're counting the End Game enhancements on Voyager, we have to give the D the same enhancements that dominion war era galaxies would receive.  Also, since the Enterprise E didn't have any of the End Game enhancements in Nemesis, it could be assumed that those Starfleet dogooders chose to shelve the enhancements to prevent further corruption to the timeline, and that the enhancements were probably removed from Voyager.  I do think Voyager has a chance of taking out the D's petting zoo though.

Also possible Starfleet didn't see the need to immediatly upgrade every ship in the fleet with the armor/weapon tech, most likely it would have been applied to prototype vessels and pure defensive ships such as whichever ships might be on Earth guard patrol duty used as a last resort.

[Lieutenant_Q]

It's also possible that the advanced weapons is something that Starfleet didn't want to risk falling into Romulan or other hands, and didn't deploy them in ships that could be subject to intensive scans or outright boarding.  Of course, I think it's most likely that Main-line Starfleet Operations said, this whole freaking ship is a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, if we let this technology out to the fleet, we'd never have any Captain follow that directive again.  Of course that doesn't stop Section 31 from applying some of the tech (at least the Torpedoes) to ships that are under their control.

I don't think that the Intrepid would be able to stay in the blind spots long and not be close enough for aggressive tractoring tactics.  Even if the Intrepid breaks the tractor lock as quickly as possible, it's still long enough for the Galaxy to bring the Intrepid into the firing arc of which ever torpedo launcher is closer.

I also don't believe that the Galaxy would get the Bio-neural circuits.  That is a massive overhaul that is akin to the Constitution Refit of the 2270s.  With Shipyards building Sovereigns, (and whatever the Titan is) I don't see many, if any, new Galaxies being built.

[knightstorm]

Galaxy class ships were being completed into the Dominion war, although according to behind the scenes statements, the wartime Galaxies were more stripped down lacking all of the useless #$%^ that I constantly criticize the D for having.  I would have to assume that those Galaxies had bio-neural circuitry.  I also don't think the overhaul would be as huge a task as the constitution rebuild.  I remember one of the early Voyager episodes had the gel packs succumbing to an infection, and Chakotay recommended converting the circuitry to isolinear.  Since the recommendation wasn't shot down as completely unfeasible, It can be assumed that a conversion in the field was possible.  Therefore it would also be possible for a Galaxy class to receive bio-neurals in a regular overhaul.

[FCM_SFHQ_XC]

It's also possible that the advanced weapons is something that Starfleet didn't want to risk falling into Romulan or other hands, and didn't deploy them in ships that could be subject to intensive scans or outright boarding.  Of course, I think it's most likely that Main-line Starfleet Operations said, this whole freaking ship is a violation of the Temporal Prime Directive, if we let this technology out to the fleet, we'd never have any Captain follow that directive again.  Of course that doesn't stop Section 31 from applying some of the tech (at least the Torpedoes) to ships that are under their control.

I don't think that the Intrepid would be able to stay in the blind spots long and not be close enough for aggressive tractoring tactics.  Even if the Intrepid breaks the tractor lock as quickly as possible, it's still long enough for the Galaxy to bring the Intrepid into the firing arc of which ever torpedo launcher is closer.

I also don't believe that the Galaxy would get the Bio-neural circuits.  That is a massive overhaul that is akin to the Constitution Refit of the 2270s.  With Shipyards building Sovereigns, (and whatever the Titan is) I don't see many, if any, new Galaxies being built.

Really depends  on how you approach a Galaxy ship.. approach it from the fore/aft sections, your going to have trouble approaching, come at it from the ventral and tractors and phasers are there, which are hard but not impossible to beat if Voyager lays it on thick.. but approaching from Dorsal, you really only have phasers in your way, and impulse, warp engines, shield generators, some weapons, and bridge are all quite targetable.

[knightstorm]

But a post Dominion war Galaxy class has a buttload of phasers on its dorsal arc.

[Lieutenant_Q]

When Chakotay made that suggestion, I think it also wasn't mentioned that it would significantly degrade their performance either.  I'm wondering how big of an advantage the Bio-Neural circuits are.  No matter how fast the message gets sent from Ops/Helm/Tactical to the corresponding systems, the biggest lag factor is from the Captain's mouth, to the Officer's fingers.

Also, Voyager's hull number is 74656, The Defiant's hull number is 74205.  Only 451 ships were commissioned between the two.  And up to the very end, O'Brien didn't take the opportunity to swap out the Isolinear chips from the Defiant and replace them with the Bio-packs.  If it could be done in the field, which (as Voyager indicates) is likely, it should have only taken a week at the most.  Surely there was some time that O'Brien could have found to do that upgrade.

Also a lot is made about the number of Phasers pointed in each direction.  But the Galaxy's main Phaser Arrays are the Dorsal Saucer and Ventral Saucer.  Those two Phaser Arrays give nearly a full sphere of fire.  Only directly aft, and slightly below to the aft are not touchable by those Phasers.  The rest are simply added bonuses.  If a Galaxy is going to hurt you by Phasers, the strike is going to come from those two arrays, or the Ventral array.

[knightstorm]

You really can't go by hull numbers because they've never made any sense.  Originally they were supposed to be sequential, but the TOS production crew was to cheap to fabricate a new decal, so they started happening without any ryme or reason.  I can think of a couple of reasons why the Defiant didn't get upgraded.  The ship had to be maintained on call to defend DS9 from a dominion attack.  As such, it couldn't afford to have the period of diminished capacity that an upgrade to bio-neural would entail.  Like I said before, I imagine the bio-neural circuitry would be less useful in a sublight combat situation so it would have been less of a priority compared to other upgrades such as the overhauled structural integrity field, quantum torpedoes, and ablative armor which the Defiant did receive.  Another explanation might be that as an "escort," the Defiant didn't have as powerful a computer, so it couldn't make use of the bio-neural.

[Lieutenant_Q]

The hull numbers actually make sense if you go by the Franz Joesph number system up to a certain point.  If you accept the notion that most of the Constitutions are numbered in the 16xx range, then it doesn't. (The Maintenance chart that everyone started taking as "THE LIST" of Constitutions, it was very clear to me from the original VHS that that list was the ships that were currently at that base for one reason or another) Sometime after the Excelsior they obviously did away with the old system of batching hull numbers for each class of ship.  (Constitutions start at 1700,  Mirandas start at 1850, Excelsiors start at 2000, whatever other classes in the middle)  At that point they just assigned ships the next number in sequence, but to account for all the hull numbers, 38000 commissioned (and decommissioned) ships in just over 80 years, and 30000 more just seven years later, one does have to wonder just what they were assigning hull numbers to.  It's possible that they started assigning hull numbers to non-military ships (The Raven is a good example of that) its also possible that a number of ships were commissioned during the Cardassian War, the flare up resulting in the Tomed Incident, and the Borg scare, but never completed.  A number of hulls were commissioned by the US Navy during the tail end of WW2 that were never actually built.